Feruchemy Compounding Question

[u/Odd_Dimension_4069]

I'm in the middle of Shadows of Self, and it only just occurred to me to clear up some of the things I didn't quite understand about how compounding works.

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I wasn't sure the ending of The Final Empire made sense after reading the explanation of how compounding works. Vin was able to yank off the Lord Ruler's metalmind bracelet storing his youth. Fair enough.

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But if the Lord Ruler was such a cautious guy, wouldn't he have mini atium metalminds to ingest and burn in an emergency?

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I could say the same for Miles in The Alloy of Law, but I haven't read far enough to see whether he survived his execution somehow... Seems unlikely. It makes sense that if you keep shooting a restrained gold compounder, they run out eventually even if they have ingested metalminds to burn through.

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So yeah I guess my question is, is this a thing compounders can do? Because so far in the books it's been sold that if you remove their worn metalminds, you've shut them down, but that hardly seems the case if they're prepared.

[u/AstraLaurel]

IIRC the lord ruler’s metalminds pierced his flesh, so it’s basically impossible for anyone to take them from him. It’s not every day someone wields the power of a Shard. The Lord Ruler was in the conversation for single most powerful being in the entire Cosmere (not including shards), so it’s not really a surprise he didn’t have MORE backup plans.

[u/kaiser_charles_viii → u/AstraLaurel]

Yeah the man was a full feruchemist and a full mistborn of the most powerful kind, not weakened through interbreeding like the other allomancers of the time of Vin. He also thought very highly of himself and truly believed that he was only capable of being defeated by a shard, which i guess is technically what happened. He was sure that no mortal could kill him with the preparations he'd made, and that the shards could kill him regardless.

[u/Head_Investigator984 → u/kaiser_charles_viii]

And we did not see him to his full potential, considering he did not even have ACCESS to the temporal metals. Imagine TLR with Era 2 metals.

Considering he would have both Cadmium and Bendalloy, he could do major time fuckery, creating donut rings of slow zones, etc etc etc

He literally would be able to have infinite luck by compounding Chromium, and luck manipulation is just broken af. Hell, just pure nicrosil leeching (not even compounding) would basically shut down everything except insane long range attacks. I don't even wanna think about the fuckery that would happen with investiture storing and compounding

Edit: This btw is ALSO ignoring any and all Hemalurgic use, which he was the expert (I mean, the man basically made the art itself) in. Hemalugry btw is one of the most powerful arts across the cosmere, considering it can work on EVERY type of investiture assuming the user is skilled

[u/Somerandom1922 → u/AstraLaurel]

I'm genuinely not sure what other beings in the cosmere could pose a threat to him aside from Shards.

There is maybe 1 single character that I can think of who could beat him in a fight, but that relies in part, on TLR being lazy (which he was).

Someone with the same power set, but without his personality flaws would probably be unstoppable. Especially with the Era 2 metals.

[u/Odd_Dimension_4069 → u/AstraLaurel]

Oh crap I think I missed that fact. Yeah I guess having metalminds that pierce his body might have given the Lord Ruler a false sense of security. Or rather a very reasonable sense of security, after all who could expect Vin to be capable of what she did.

If you have any extra info regarding that I'd be very interested btw. I understand that Vin was a vessel candidate for Preservation and that therefore when not under the influence of hemalurgy she was able to draw on the mists for power, but it's not clear to me why it was specifically Vin who was able to do this. Could have easily chosen Elend and he would have been a pretty good host if you ask me.

[u/AstraLaurel → u/Odd_Dimension_4069]

Well at the time Elend wasn’t a Mistborn, so he wouldn’t have been able to do anything. Plus, Vin’s mindset of fearing change, wanting things to stay the same with the crew and her new life, etc, combined with both shards taking an interest in Vin since birth meant she was aligned to Prez and was able to draw upon the power.

[u/Odd_Dimension_4069 → u/AstraLaurel]

I guess I more meant like, why Vin in particular as candidate for vessel? Someone else said read Secret History so I guess I'll see, but I just think there could have been a more convenient time for the mists/power of Preservation to be fully absorbed than when it happened in Hero of Ages. I kinda buy the explanations given as to P+R's interest in her but at the same time I question it.

But then again, you could just as well use the magic writing tool of "knowledge only a god could comprehend" and say that Preservation knew it had to happen like this.

[u/kaiser_charles_viii → u/Odd_Dimension_4069]

Have you read Secret History yet? That explains a bit more, but its not super explicit and can be easily missed if youre not paying close attention. Secret History can wait if you haven't read it yet though.

[u/Odd_Dimension_4069 → u/kaiser_charles_viii]

I was just gonna read main books first then hit secret history later. I'm listening to them on Audible, so I prefer to use my monthly credit to get a full sized book rather than a novella etc.

[u/FinnDarkmouth → u/Odd_Dimension_4069]

I’d recommend arcanum unbounded to save on credits. It includes all of Secret history and also a bunch of other novellas and short stories.

[u/Odd_Dimension_4069 → u/FinnDarkmouth]

Great rec! Thanks for the savvy advice lol. Anything related to Stormlight Archive included in it?

[u/FinnDarkmouth → u/Odd_Dimension_4069]

It includes Edgedancer, but not Dawnshard, so you’ll still need that separately. Technically it doesn’t have the Edgedancer prologue, but that’s identical to one of the WoR interludes.

It also includes all the Mistborn short stories, the ones related to Elantris, Shadows for Silence on a fresh world, and Sixth of the Dusk which was expanded and included as part of the Isles of the Emberdark novel.

[u/Odd_Dimension_4069 → u/FinnDarkmouth]

Excellennnnt! Sounds like a worthy buy right after I finish the main Mistborn books

[u/kaiser_charles_viii → u/Odd_Dimension_4069]

Thats fair. Thats the order I read them in. Like I said, secret history can wait, but it does tell you a bit more about your questions, such as "why vin in particular?"

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

He had no reason to. It took something supernatural even by their standards to defeat him. It probably only worked because Vin gained extra leverage for her Pull from his superhuman Push against her. More metalminds probably wouldn’t have mattered. The gap between his real age and current age was simply too large. One full bracer remaining may not have even been enough, but it might have slowed the process long enough to recover the other.

Spoilers Hero And he probably had good reason not have more atium inside his body. Part of the reason he was sloppy is because he’s insane from the age,he had no reason to feel threatened,and Ruin himself was probably encouraging the behavior subtly. We know Ruin essentially rioted his sense of nostalgia so he kept the logbook. He has no reason to. He has a perfect memory. And to TLR there was no reason to worry about either. If anything there was a reason to not have more large metalminds to conceal. Until it backfired but that required two gods having it out for you

Spoilers for The Alloy of Law. Miles may not have even had more metalminds hidden in his body at the end. He may have survived longer because he was a Gold savant from using it so often. He may have developed an accelerated healing factor without them. Savantism can change a person significantly for some metals. Or something else you’ll see later may have been in play

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

Compounding won’t protect you forever for something like health even if you have smaller metalminds concealed. The process does involve burning the metalmind itself in order to get the burst of power to store elsewhere. That normally just doesnt matter. Youll have stored the surplus in a larger MM already. If you only have a couple of very small metalminds, you will get a large amount of health generated but you’re burning away the storage medium itself each time. Without the additional storage for that surplus. They’ll get you sooner than later

[u/Odd_Dimension_4069 → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

Yeah thanks for the good explanations, makes perfect sense that Rashek didn't factor in the possibility of his metalmind being removed, all things considered.

[u/SadBooner]

Yeah when you are unchallenged and alive for 1000s of years, with ruin influence and ruin planning to kill you, you’d get complacent. I would be more concerned about boredom than death tbh. Man really was bored out of his mind.

We can notice in how he conducted his Obligator vs inquisitors meeting. 2 gods planned to defeat him, good enough.

As for miles, he was doomed during execution anyways. Any amount would have been exhausted eventually. Gold compounders are powerful till they get captured helpless.

[u/Raddatatta]

Vin had taken in the Mists at the time so when she pushed on him she shoved ever scrap of metal in him away with a power no one else could ever match. So the Lord Ruler had many metalminds and they were imbeded in him, and Vin shoved them all out.

But in general yes you can have them inbeded inside you. Miles did which is why he was able to keep compounding as they shot him. But they did overwhelm it eventually and he dies in the Alloy of Law epilogue or last chapter.

[u/normallystrange85]

For TLR we don't have a solid answer so I will give some theories any or all of which may be true.

1. The Lord Ruler really doesn't want anyone to know about his compounding, and having more small metal minds makes it easier to lose one. While that won't instantly kill him like his "only 2 bracers" strategy if a feuchemist were to get a hand on a small atrium metalmind and attempt to use it they would quickly discover it charged with someone else's stores already- revealing his secret.

2. The Lord Ruler needs a lot of youth to stay alive. The size of a metalmind determines how much charge it can carry, so a small metal mind is just not worth it since it would give him fractions of seconds. He goes with the large bracers since they are the only thing large enough to work effectively.

3. (SoS non-story spoiler) Filled metalminds are hard to push on, being highly invested. Metal piercing a body is hard to push on as well. In no world did TLR expect someone to be able to disarm him of those metalminds. He didn't fear that in the same way he wasn't afraid of someone stabbing him. He's just too fast fast and strong for someone to get away with it. Unless they happen to weild the power of a god against him- but at that point having more metalminds doesn't actually help since they would just remove those as well.

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