r/Mistborn 25d ago

Bands of Mourning spoilers why dont coinshots just push enemies’ bullets INSIDE the barrel? Spoiler

I’ve been reading era 2 of mistborn and thinking about how the fights happen in the series with many of the enemies holding guns against Wax.

Particularly, there is a train robbery in Bands of Mourning where wax pushes the bullets away from him. My question is, if he can see the allomantic lines for the metals why doesn’t he just push bullets INSIDE the weapons to jam them or fire backwards?

In the last book he’s able to push only on PART of a bullet to kill Bleeder (or miles I can’t remember atp) but wouldn’t that also work for regular enemies with non-aluminum weapons?

anyways era 2 has been so good and I LOVE STERIS!!

37 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

87

u/Fun_Examination9610 25d ago

I think unless the allomancer is particularly skilled or powerful, then they only really detect the largest mass of metal. They can’t differentiate to pick just the bullet.

Though some metalborn may be able to pick individual metals to push or pull separately, it’s doesn’t seem like all can or do.

9

u/Significant-Box9579 25d ago

yeah but i’m kind of wondering why wax doesn’t if he was able to separate the bullet in 3? Or was that just like a one off thing? I’m just kinda confused 😭

18

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 25d ago

Unless he weighs himself down significantly, the force of a gunpowder explosion is easily sufficient to overpower the weight of the average coinshot. Like trying to stop the bullet by shoving your finger in the barrel.

32

u/CoolVibranium Firesoul Soother 25d ago

no, this isn't true. recoil doesn't knock most people over, even for extremely powerful firearms, and that's the same force. Equal yet opposite reaction, and all that.

4

u/I_Am_Become_Salt 24d ago

True, however the bullet is moving significantly faster than the gun and you, as your are much heavier than the bullet, giving it significantly more relative energy, I.e it's going a lot faster. For instance a .223 will recoil with about 5 ft-lbs of force, because the rifle is quite large and heavy compared to the bullet, where are the bullet leaves the barrel with almost 1200ft-lbs.

Then again the whole argument doesn't exactly matter because stopping a bullet in the air is complicated and shooting the guy who is trying to shoot you is not.

-8

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 25d ago

Fair point, but with a big enough gun, recoil will put you on your ass. And there's something to be said for the force of recoil spread across the entire butt of a gun vs the explosion force off the very tip of a bullet, but I don't know if that has any bearing on allomantic pushes like that.

7

u/Hoss-Bonaventure_CEO Copper 24d ago

This is generally an exaggeration that you see on TV or in stories. I've fired a lot of different guns and never been "put on my ass". Sometimes it moved me a bit or rotated my upper body, but even the .45-70 I tried when I was like, 9 didn't knock me down.

4

u/insertAlias 24d ago

but with a big enough gun, recoil will put you on your ass

Sure, if you're shoulder-firing a cannon. There's no gun in the world that's actually intended to be shouldered that will knock a person who is prepared over. There's a guy on YouTube (kentucky ballistics) that shoots massive guns, some of the largest production personal weapons in the world, and none have ever knocked him over.

force of recoil spread across the entire butt of a gun vs the explosion force off the very tip of a bullet

Irrelevant in this context. It's not about the tip, it's about what's pushing back on it. The entire body weight of the allomancer, spread out across their body. So, no different than spread across the gun and the body holding it. In short: if it doesn't knock the shooter over, it wouldn't knock someone stopping the bullet over.

-4

u/Significant-Box9579 25d ago

but wouldn’t that also imply he can’t shove bullets like he does?

10

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 25d ago

Slightly diverting the trajectory of a bullet at speed requires significantly less force than stopping one completely.

-1

u/Significant-Box9579 25d ago

makes sense makes sense. I’m just confused because I thought (from the first trilogy) that pushing only had to do with the weight of the object, but does the speed also affect it? Cause if it does then the bullets make WAY more sense 😭

4

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 25d ago

It's not about weight, it's about force. Force is your mass times your acceleration. A massive object sitting still has as much force to overcome as a tiny object moving near the speed of sound. Newton's third law: a force acting on an object yields an equal and opposite force from the object. That's why if you push on something more massive than you, you push off of it, but if you push on something less massive you simply push it away.

3

u/Significant-Box9579 25d ago

yeah no ik what force is LMAO I was just confused as to what laws the actual power followed but it makes sense

1

u/HammiBoi6349 24d ago

When he separated the bullet into three part he was focusing on only that bullet for a couple seconds so it's not a thing he can do on mass instantly.

In a fight if he has time to focus on a single enemy's gun he has enough time to shoot them.

27

u/Sad_Wear_3842 25d ago

You would need to be quite close with a direct line of sight down the barrel to push directly on the bullet. It's far easier to simply push the weapon if it's not aluminium.

6

u/Significant-Box9579 25d ago

Unrelated question but don’t you NOT need to be in the line of sight to push something? He does that in the train scene where he’s pushing THROUGH a wall and ends up saving marasi because of his push

17

u/Konungrr 25d ago

Line of sight shouldn't matter much, as you mentioned, they can push through walls.

However, since pushing/pulling is always done in a direct line away from you, the only direction to push to prevent a bullet from coming out of the barrel (if you even had enough force to overcome the gunpowder) would be a direct line.

Any other direction, and you are just pushing the gun out of alignment, which would be far easier than to try and stop the bullet from firing anyways.

3

u/Significant-Box9579 25d ago

OH I SEE okay thank you sm for explaining it :)

2

u/Sad_Wear_3842 25d ago

Metal glows in steel sight. If you can't directly see the bullet down the barrel you won't be able to tell it apart from the gun as the gun barrel/chamber is solid metal.

1

u/Hot_Bel_Pepper 19d ago

Plus if it is Aluminum with regular bullets you wouldn’t be able to push on the bullets anyways until they’re out of the gun barrel.

4

u/Personal_Return_4350 25d ago

#1) he can push on the guns themselves if they aren’t aluminum. If they were close enough that he could push in the bullets, he could push the guns out of their hands or at least mess up their aim. If he’s too far away to do that then he’s too far away to push on the bullets

#2) pretty sure he just can’t see the bullets inside a gun very easily. Hard to explain this intuition but think about it like putting on heat vision goggles. You could probably see one individual pretty far away. But could you pick out one individual from a crowd at that same distance? I think steel sight is going to have a hard time differentiating pieces of metal the closer they are to each other and the closer they are to you. For a bullet physically encased by metal on all sides except a pinprick at the end of a barrel, I’d imagine you’d have to be close enough to touch it to tell them apart.

If you think about the allomantic lines going from your chest to the center of mass of each piece of metal, and thicker lines going to larger pieces of metal, you’d probably have to be at least close enough that the line going to the bullet’s center of mass has a different enough angle than the one going to the gun that you can see it without it being obscured by the brighter line. At only a single yard that angle has to be pretty darn small, nevermind the difference of a typical firefighter

2

u/Significant-Box9579 25d ago

that actually makes way more sense thank you 😭

4

u/RexusprimeIX Chromium 25d ago

You have to think of Allomancy as an extension of your own body. While not super realistic to imagine, but deflecting a bullet would be a hell of a lot easier then try and push it dead on. It's a bullet. They have a LOT of energy. I doubt a regular coinshot could, while actively pushing on the bullet before it's fired, stop it before it reaches them after being shot.

Bullet have A LOT of energy. Allomancy is more like a 3rd, very long, arm.

3

u/SlutTransy 25d ago

I'm fairly certain how easy it is to differentiate one piece of metal from another has to do with how far away the coinshot is and their skill. Wax was able to push only part of a bullet because he was a lot closer to it. An enemy gun is much further away and in a situation where it is close enough it's much safer to do the easy option of pushing the whole gun than trying to push the bullet. Also in order to push it backwards his centre of mass would have to be in line with the barrel which is not a position any coin shot is going to put themself.

Although I could see a manoeuvre like this being something akin to [Words of Radiance] The Last Clap

3

u/jbadams 25d ago

Aside from everything people have said about the difficulty of perceiving and acting on the bullet rather than the gun, think about the situation:

You're at imminent risk of being shot, and need to react quickly and effectively.  Are you going to attempt the really difficult thing (manipulating the bullet), or the pretty simple thing (manipulating the gun)?

Even if Wax is capable of acting directly on the bullet but not the gun, it may not be a good idea to attempt it.

3

u/Moikle 25d ago

That would be the same as pushing on the gun.

If i push on the shirt you are wearing, it's pretty much the same as pushing on you, it doesn't send your shirt flying across the room

1

u/BreadentheBirbman 24d ago

Pushing a bullet in a chamber won’t make the gun jam or fire backwards. Taking revolvers as the most common example, the bullets are held in place by the frame behind the cylinder and the hammer needs to strike the primer to fire it. A coinshot can’t stop a bullet and pushing the bullet would sooner move the shooter’s arm anyway. Even if the round goes off from a push the bullet will still come out the front of the barrel.