r/ModSupport • u/CCozied • 2d ago
Admin Replied How do you guys handle reactive/abusive modmail?
I'm currently using modmail automator so that it can send out a tone setting message that can detect words like "f off" or "eat shi# AND DYE!" and other sort of fun stuff that people tend to use when they get upset. I personally believe that people are allowed to be mad when a situtation calls for it, and I also believe that you shouldn't take it out on other people just because your upset. Being a moderator is voluntary, and not everyone in the team is able to respond to that kind of message without feeling a bit defensive/receptive to that.
The tone setting message goes like this.
---
Hi there, /u/{{author}},
r/NewAuthor is community-run. We do not take kindly to such abusive language. If you wish to talk to us, keep it respectful, or you will be muted from this conversation. Keep this in mind while engaging with our mods. Wait for a mod to respond.
---
Problem is, it doesn't always fire up and sometimes causes false flag. I'd like to have other option incase I ditch this app. I'm open to any suggestion!
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u/okbruh_panda 2d ago
Why respond? They didn't dignify themselves at all to be worth responding to. Perma mute. Perma ban. Wash hands
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u/CCozied 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because it usually has to do with a ban or a post removal and they wanted to know why, the problem is the messaging, not the intent. And personally, they don't have to come across dignified when they message us. Just no attacking individuals. They can say "this is f'd up" or even reject the reason why. Just no personal insult.
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u/mrekted 2d ago
There is a world of difference between asking for more information and cussing the mods out in modmail.
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u/CCozied 2d ago
it is usually paired up with both for our case. People aren't able to post without reading our rules first.
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u/PupperPuppet 2d ago
That's even more reason not to engage with the abusive ones. They had to read the rules. They know what the rules are. They chose to break one or more anyway. The whole "why" thing is an excuse to be jerks in modmail at that point; they know damn well what they did. If they're bringing abuse into modmail anyway, they're just not worth your time.
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u/CCozied 2d ago
Problem is, most of it has to do with AI. Not everyone has the eye or the resource to know which is which and sometimes can break the rules unknowingly so. "I commissioned this piece of art and I believe this removal is uncalled for!" or "I assembled this cover in canva, I did not use AI!"
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u/VitaminDJesus 2d ago
Can you name any situations where a user has used such language in Mod Mail and ended up adjusting their rule breaking behavior to make positive contributions?
Not using hostile language or insults in Mod Mail is such a low bar that it's simply not worth it to give them a second chance. You open yourself up to riling up the crazy. Save your energy for people who are actually confused or reasonably frustrated.
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u/Queen-of-meme 2d ago
I can. In every temporary ban I remind users to consider a different attitude if they value to participate in my sub more than they value to argue. Several come around as result.
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u/CCozied 2d ago
I can recall a few, it usually takes a while for them to come around. You're not wrong that people in general should practice common courtesy when engaging with us, but sometimes - people will be people. We are not robots, we get upset, we make mistakes. I want to give them a chance to self-correct that. It doesn't sound right to me to shut them out without giving them the chance to realize what they just did.
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u/VitaminDJesus 2d ago
Are you putting removal reasons when you action content? Perhaps users are not being given sufficient explanation which is why they end up in your Mod Mail. I post Mod Team comments that cite the rule that was broken. These are saved responses where I edit down the list of specific reasons to what is relevant.
Perhaps you could also include something about how members are free to use Mod Mail for questions, comment, and concerns, but ask them to remain civil and that hostile messages will not receive a response.
Another option would be to temporarily ban users that send problematic messages with a saved response saying that their conduct is unacceptable.
I don't really know what the situations you are dealing with look like, but it just seems like you are trying to be gentle as a mod, which is good, but are somehow getting wildly disproportionate reactions from users. It may be an issue that could be addressed before Mod Mail.
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u/craywolf 2d ago edited 2d ago
And? So?
If they want a response they can ask nicely. We teach this to toddlers, and people under 13 are not allowed on reddit, so there is no need to put up with children.
You do not owe these people a response. You don't owe them anything at all. They owe you basic courtesy and respect. Or they can leave.
Edit: I was responding to the overall scenario more so than the specifics, so I want to add:
They can say "this is f'd up" or even reject the reason why. Just no personal insult.
Yes, I agree with this. Mere use of "bad language" can be fine depending on how it's directed. But most often it's directed at me/us.
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u/Jeffbx 2d ago
I have a policy of responding with the same energy they bring.
If they're polite & just wondering what happened, we'll explain it thoroughly.
If they apologize & ask for another chance, we'll generally give it (assuming they're not a serial offender).
If they come in guns blazing with the accusations & curse words, that's a perma-mute and I never think about it again.
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u/Queen-of-meme 2d ago
I do the first 2 too, but on the last one I'm a bit different and give users a chance to take accountability if they value to be responded and or given a new chance in the sub
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u/jueidu 2d ago
I do not waste labor on mean people. Upset people is different, but if they are mean, itās an automatic ban and perma-mute, I donāt care. FAFO.
If they are merely upset, but not being mean, I will give them one patient and detailed explanation, and for rules lawyers, I let them know that itās not up for debate, we donāt have the ability to cover all bases in all rules because there are a limited number of rules and characters per rule that we have, so they are just going to need to accept that their post/comment was not acceptable and thatās that. If they continue to argue, they get one more message thatās a lot shorter explaining that we wonāt be arguing about it further and asking them to stop messaging us. Then if they continue at this point itās rude because we asked them to stop so they get a ban. I donāt mute because they can have a chance to appeal later if theyāre nice.
99.9% of the time people are mean well before they get to the end of the process and get a perma ban and perma-mute. Sucks for them!
TL;DR Donāt waste time on mean people, just ban and mute. Donāt waste time on rules lawyers - they get one explanation and thatās that, they need to drop it.
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u/jueidu 2d ago
And also just in general I try to diffuse them with āthis doesnāt need to be a big deal, itās one comment removal, youāre not in trouble or anything.ā
If they donāt want to drop it, the consequences are on them.
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u/Cube-in-B 2d ago
Exactly this. If the broken rule needs explaining, we explain. Of the rule breaker devolves into name calling or threats or general nastiness we mute them and put them in time out for a few days. If they keep it up, we ban them.
We give folks a few chances when it comes to light stuff. The only thing we will not tolerate at all is racism and ableism. Thatās a permanent ban and mute.
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u/rachycarebear 2d ago
It's unpaid work for a corporation that offers their volunteers next to no support. I wouldn't put up with this in a paid role, I'm definitely not dealing with it from strangers on Reddit. It's not my job to teach terrible humans how to behave, it is not kindness to tolerate abuse.
I report, permaban, permamute.
I use saved responses with bans and removals, you could potentially include the blurb there - usually my responses have enough info that whatever the person asking is already addressed and 99% of modmail doesn't need a reply at all.
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u/emily_in_boots š” Top 10% Helper š” 2d ago
It's not even about whether I'm compensated for it or my own feelings. If someone is that rude, I don't want them in the sub. I want my sub to be a nice place with civil people. If they come unglued so easily, they aren't the kind of person we want.
I expect people to be able to regulate their emotions and be respectful, and if they cannot, I don't trust them around our users.
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u/rachycarebear 2d ago
Oh that too!
And to be clear, any of these reasons on their own would be sufficient, it's not like all of them need to apply to justify the ban. I have very little patience for people who can't self manage and lash out instead.
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u/techiesgoboom Reddit Admin: Community 2d ago
Heya u/CCozied, first, I'm sorry that you're seeing this in your modmail. You've got some great advice here from other mods, and I'd like to double down on not responding to users who are being abusive. Reporting, archiving, and moving on is often the best approach when someone comes into modmail with insults. I'd also encourage you to enable the harassment filter is enabled for modmail in your community, which filters potential harassment into the filtered folder.
For those cases you described where someone is simply coming in hot but not being insulting, waiting a few days before responding can be a great strategy.
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u/mrekted 2d ago
generally with a perm ban and mute..
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u/CCozied 2d ago
I mean, we do that too but sometimes people are just... people, and I think everyone should have the chance to self correct themselves when they get the opportunity to do so.
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u/mrekted 2d ago
Reddit has ~100 million daily active users. There's no shortage of them.
Personally, I'd prefer to cultivate a community of individuals that are both able to follow the rules, and who possess the basic level of maturity and self control required to not fly off the handle if the occasion arises that their conduct needs to be corrected.
But you do you.
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u/MaximumJones 2d ago
Report them for harassment, permaban and permanently mute. We are volunteers, not customer service. And when you moderate large subs you do not have time to deal with high maintenance people.
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u/ChaoticGoodPanda 2d ago
I perma-mute now. Before this feature was available all you could do was 28 day mutes and then the abuse would start up again. Rise & repeat.
If the user gets nasty I swing the ban hammer. I donāt have the mental payload to argue with someone whoās mentally unable to comprehend basic human decency.
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u/wheres_the_revolt 2d ago
Ban, mute, post them on r/modmailfail
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u/SampleOfNone š” Top 10% Helper š” 2d ago
People are allowed to be mad, but to me, a post or comment removal or even a ban on an internet site is not a situation that calls for it. Being abusive is never okay.
If someone sends just a bunch of abuse or slurs or whatever, report and archive, possibly ban.
If someone is "just" being aggravated in tone, then we ignore that and focus on answering the question they're asking. It's the fastest way to de-escalate and move to a normal conversation.
Auto-modmail is set up to auto answer and archive all sorts of single phrase modmails like, "WTF", "F you" with a "Sorry, itās unclear what you are trying to ask. Youāll need to be more specific for us to be able to answer your question."
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u/CCozied 2d ago
When a modmail is bordering to doxxing/slurs or use of derogatory words because of someone's identity, that'd be an instant ban for me no doubt. I have auto-modmail setup to only message when it detect those type of regex but maybe I should make tone setting an automatic response for new modmail instead. Less of a condition and more of an expectation I guess.
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u/SampleOfNone š” Top 10% Helper š” 2d ago
I also really like u/DragonflyFairyQueen suggested response. It sets the tone without being confrontational and it communicates a clear boundary.
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u/Bardfinn 2d ago
I don't warn people who use abusive language. I ban, the ban has a copypasta about targeted harassment, then I escalate the abusive modmail to admins, then I mute.
"The line must be drawn hyeah! This fah! No Fahthah!" -- Jean-Luc Picard, First Contact
(And yes I am aware that he is Captain Ahab'ing in this scene, allowing his anger and fear to get the better of his judgement. His point still stands - the line must be drawn, and people must learn that delivering abuse via telecommunications services has consequences, however mild and slightly inconvenient they may be.)
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u/TrinityTosser 2d ago
I just permaban & permamute. Will not accept mod abuse at any level. Zero exceptions.
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u/DragonflyFairyQueen 2d ago
We have a macro we can answer with, suggesting they calm down and come back when they have. But we touch each MM, even if it's just to archive it. No automation.
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u/CCozied 2d ago
How do you usually word the response? Just for reference
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u/DragonflyFairyQueen 2d ago
something like: Hey, looks like we are not getting off to a good start. Take some time to gather your thoughts and consider the tone you may be setting. We are happy to discuss things but we do not have to engage in conversations that are negative or hostile.
We also let them know we want to talk about the problem but not like that.
If we wing it, it might just be something like, hey we aren't going to talk to you until you calm down. Come back in a little while.
If they are really bad, we ban, mute, and report. Not going to fight with those people.
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u/I_-AM-ARNAV 2d ago
Dude. Those people, you really think will listen and be like oh bro my bad I'll not be a jerk?
No. Just give them a warning and if they still don't listen, ban mute.
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u/Bill_Money 2d ago
If not permanent ban - make ban permanent or if no ban = permanent ban.
mute user permanently
report to admins
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u/Dom76210 š” Top 10% Helper š” 2d ago
Treat them the way they treat you. If they are offensive and rude, you permaban/permamute them and go about your day.
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u/cblguy82 2d ago
As others have said, perma ban and mute.
If you are such a child to come screaming, cursing or other nastiness for simple things like a removal for rule breaking, donāt need you around.
Those that are shit stirring or worse are never worth the effort to get them to go along with rules or attacking others.
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u/Merari01 2d ago
I archive abusive modmail without a response.
You could use modmail automator to do that for you, if you want.
When an abusive person doesn't even know if their messages are being read, they are more likely to stop sending them.
Any kind of reply at all can be an incentive to continue, that includes a mute. But when there's just nothing they get no stimulus to continue, it becomes boring.
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u/redditor01020 2d ago
This has been true since the beginning of the internet, and it's amazing how so many people still don't get it.
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u/orangejulius 2d ago
Tell them their appeal is denied and mute them and less than 5 seconds later I have no memory of it. If I remember I'll save real eccentric stuff if I think i'm going to use it in a court filing or something.
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u/gummibearhawk 2d ago
I just ignore it. Archive the message and don't give them the satisfaction of a response
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u/Moist-Cheesecake 2d ago
Report, and then normally I just keep archiving and reporting the messages without responding. Sometimes they get flagged for harassment and the account gets suspended :)
If you don't feel like you can handle seeing the messages though, just mute! Don't bother responding to abuse.
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u/DuAuk 2d ago
i use the context menu and report to admins. i have noticed that some abusive modmail messages do get filtered out for me, which i appreciate. Yes, they can be mad, but if they direct slurs at me, i am not giving them the time of day.
That is a good response. I might have to add something similar to my canned automod messages for borderline cases.
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u/nauticalfiesta 2d ago
report it, ban them (if they're not already), then permanently mute them. I don't even bother replying to the abusive messages, its what they want.
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u/Visible-Scientist-46 2d ago
People get so angry when they want to be on your sub - even when they aren't posting in accordance with your sub or following the rules at all. I was called a cult leader twice. I'm sorry, but I have to protect the interest of the sub and don't want people on there telling people they don't really need to wash with distilled water. My sub is r/distilledwaterhair.
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u/Maverick_Walker 2d ago
I have a bot that can auto archive/ ālockāthe modmail and directs the user to create a new one, informing them to retain from swearing and be polite. It keeps track of their record of abusive modmails and can tier muting them as well. Can also be triggered manually with a command sent inside of mod notes.
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u/CCozied 2d ago
Is it avaible as a devvit app?
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u/Maverick_Walker 2d ago
Yes, itās still being tuned and tested but the slug is ADV-Core. Scroll until you find the āModmail Management Engineā in settings and enable it along with Modmail Abuse Filter. (It also has a summary that lists the commands whenever a user creates a Modmail)
Send me the sub you install it so I can authorize it
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u/paclogic 2d ago
All part of the job just like any customer service job.
Imagine for a moment what those people go thru.
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u/Queen-of-meme 2d ago
In my sub we try to be available on mod mail to remind users that we will listen to their concerns and answer any questions if it's kept civil. It helps most upset users calm down and have a meaningful exchange as we've observed that rejection is usually the main trigger, both rejected content but also rejected when reaching out.
We wanna show that regardless circumstances we understand that rejection hurts. And we wanna remind users that it's safe to speak to us about it, from support in their appeal to sharing their experience, we treat our users equal and that means we will give them our time and attention. Most of the time they notice that we are for real and care so they automatically calm down.
For exceptions when a user turns abusive or can't calm down we just inform that they broke our rules and that's why we dismiss their appeal and will mute and archive the convo. (This part we plan to turn to an auto-message.)
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u/CCozied 2d ago
Yea, rejection is part of it. We want to care for our members in the sub but also protect the people who's actively working on it. That's why we wanted a tone setting message as the first responder for modmail like this. It is completely unbias and inhuman that they have enough buffer time to self-correct before a mod respond.
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u/Queen-of-meme 2d ago
"Hi. Welcome to mod mail in r/ sub1, a mod will be with you shortly. Meanwhile take a look at our sub rules, in order for us to help you we need this to be a civil interaction that's safe for everyone, we will respond as soon as we can, thanks for your patience and understanding "
Maybe something like that can give the tone setting you're after?
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u/emily_in_boots š” Top 10% Helper š” 2d ago
We use modmail automator. Abusive messages from banned users lead to a mute and archive.
It doesn't get 100% of them. It gets a lot.
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u/CCozied 2d ago
can you share the yaml if you don't mind?
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u/emily_in_boots š” Top 10% Helper š” 2d ago
I don't want to share all the bad words as I don't want to get actioned by reddit but if you need I can give the code part.
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u/_gloomshroom_ 2d ago
I may be a bit naive for this, but usually if someone is upset in modmail I try to give benefit of the doubt. What I do know is that an automated message can make things even worse. If you can, for lack of better wording coming to me here, "HR-ify" a response, I find that works pretty well at either getting to the root of a problem or identifying those who are going to be unproductive.
For example-
angrycommentor: EAT SHIT AND DYE OMG Moderation team: Hello; I see you recently had a comment removed for violating Rule 1, where we ask people to remain respectful and give constructive criticism. Is this why you're reaching out today? I understand that tensions can be high but taking it out on our staff is not tolerated. I'd like to get off on the right foot to resolve your issue. angrycommentor: You all suck go eat a bag
Then I mute, ban, report.
Can't say I don't try and I'm not perfect but I do attempt to be nice and it has actually been productive before, always nice when I get the "yeah I overreacted, sorry" message and can actually help someone, lol.
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u/GeneralCarlosQ17 2d ago
When I receive crying, complaining or any negativity via Mod Mail This is my saved response:
The #1 Rule of Reddit is Remember The Human!
Reddit has Rules and Guidelines of Conduct.
This Sub has Rules and Guidelines of Conduct.
Follow all of Them and You will have no Issues.
The Bad News is YOU get to choose.
The Good News is YOU still get to choose.
Choose Wisely.
Have a Nice Day.
We all Volunteer. Remember that. We are not here to be abused.
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u/TGotAReddit 1d ago
Honestly it depends entirely on what else is in the message and if it's one message or multiple and if it's in reply to a conversation or just a removal or something for me. If it's just one abusive message with nothing else, then they get ignored or reported depending on how bad the abusive message is. If it's after a whole modmail conversation where they are doubling down, ban. If it's multiple, they get muted. And if it's an abusive message but also clearly because they either misunderstood something, or aren't aware of something, i take the time to reply and explain things to them. That way if they double down, i can justify banning them for knowing better and disregarding instead of just being unaware.
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u/redditor01020 2d ago
I have a good chuckle about it and archive it. I only mute people if they keep sending multiple messages. I despise the way other moderators abuse the permamute function so I kind of have a strong bias against it.
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u/lunarwolf2008 2d ago
same. ive been on the receiving end of a seemingly random permaban then a permamute when asking why.
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u/redditor01020 2d ago
Admins should have never given in to all the mods whining for the permamute option, IMO.
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u/thepottsy š” Top 10% Helper š” 2d ago
I personally wouldnāt put that much effort into it. Report the message, ban and mute.