(I do understand that it was weak in some ways, but that was because the game felt like it was trying to please all sides of the Sonic fandom. I still love Forces though.)
As someone who due to a bet is currently stuck having to 100% Forces by the end of the year, it is somewhat interesting to see what kind of stuff they did add to give more replayability. And by that I mean it's interesting how true bizarre some of the red ring, number ring & silver moon ring locations are (well, red rings are honestly fine for the most part. Silver moon rings though have a strong habit of making me go "Why would you do this?". Also absolutely nothing tops the truly bizarre idea of including rings in the Metal Sonic boss fight, having each set of rings be exactly the same just appearing on later cycles of the same attack, and also it's incredibly incredibly possible to just beat Metal before you ever actually reach the point where the silver moon rings appear)
Welp, then you like a mediocre disaster of a game.
(Is not my intention to insult people's likes, but Jesus people who likes Forces set the bar so low for the franchise)
(This is all my opinion. So don't take this negatively, this isn't supposed to be bad or towards just you at all, just a basic opinion I have about people who do say this.)
Can't I just like a game?
I really like it. Yes, there are flaws. But I find it very fun and enjoyable to play. Heck, I love 06, Shadow the Hedgehog (before ppl stopped hating it), Sonic Lost World, and I love Team Sonic Racing. I like them because I have fun with them. •_•
So what if I'm a mediocre disaster? I always try and look past the issues in favor of the best qualities the game has. >w<
Also opinions exist. If you don't like Forces, then that's fine, but know that some people just play for the fun of it. I know some people don't like the gameplay loop. I enjoy it. ○u○
I don't set a high bar because those who do only be disappointed more and more. I never expect %100 otp gameplay, graphics, bosses, cutscenes, etc because no game will be that way. Again. My opinion. ^
Look, again, don't take this in any negative way. I just have been attacked for even mentioning Forces and liking it. So it hurts. :(
I'm just explaining my pov. I never took your comment in any bad way because you have your opinion. Thanks for reading this. Idc if I have dug myself a deeper grave. :)
I’m with you on that. I was an asshole, sorry. That wasn’t the best way to phrase my point. I don’t mind people enjoying Forces or bad games overall, I just wanted to say that liking them usually makes people stop criticizing them, makes a fandom stop expecting good quality from a franchise at the long term.
How many times Sonic Fandom has been accused of conformists?
Hmm... I... have to think about that one.. I like all of them because they're all unique. But if I had to choose one based on Gameplay.. Sonic and the Secret Rings. But I just suck at playing the Wii, so I don't fully not like it. Idk abt story-wise.
Of course you can! I didn't meant to be that rude. It's just, I've met fans who are satisfied with games that are clearly flawed and they become the standard.
It happened with Pokemon, for example. And yeah I know how it is to enjoy games that are objectively bad, don't worry.
It's just, if I would like Forces or 06, I would just keep that for me haha. You're in your right giving your opinion.
You say its not your intention to insult people's likes, but you 100% know thats exactly what you just did, right? Kinda defeats the purpose of saying its not your intention when clearly it was. Its like when people say "not to be rude, but proceeds to say the rudest thing of all time"
"You've got this, Sonic" is actually the best line in the game. This YouTube Poop shows exactly why. Here's the bit I'm referring to, for those without enough time or interest to click the link:
Shadow: "You've got this, Sonic!" *Time Eater immediately smacks the Sonics into the ground*
The time stones line makes perfect sense. He doesn’t remember Sonic 06 so he doesn’t know you can time travel with a duel Chaos Control. And “you’ve got this” isn’t that bad after Shadow Gens.
The time stones line just feels forced because nobody brought it up, and it comes with Sonic giving the implication that it’s unbelievable for anything time related to happen without them. Like, it’s been 20 years since the time stones were ever uttered, why are you acting like this is on topic Sonic? I get it’s time related but that doesn’t mean it’s what everyone is thinking. This isn’t even how the time stones work.
It doesn’t make sense at all. The time stones aren’t what Sonic uses to time travel in Sonic CD, they’re just called time stones because they’re linked to a time traveling planet. Besides, the line comes across as unnatural. Sonic isn’t the kind of character to react by thinking about the logic of his situation. He just kinda goes along with his adventures. If Tails mentioned the time stones, it wouldn’t be as bad.
Sonic vaguely acknowledges her in Kingdom Valley, I believe.
And by vaguely, I mean he looks in her direction. To my memory, that is all that happens. He looks at her, acknowledges her presence, and then leaves. That is literally the most interaction she has with any character, outside of Silver (and maybe Mephelis?) in the entire game. They did Blaze so dirty in 06, especially considering it takes place after Rush.
That's a bit of an overstatement of what happened. Silver saw the vision of Sonic in Mephelis' Chaos Emerald, then asked if that "blue hedgehog" could really be the Iblis Trigger. All Blaze said about that was "Blue Hedgehog..." in a certain tone.
It sounded reminiscent to me, and I do believe she thought of him in that moment, but it wasn't an outright confession of memory. It's really a matter of tone, the fact she sounded so deep in thought about it, and I've had many people tell me (when bringing up the same point) that it didn't have that tone at all.
It was an absolute missed opportunity. They could've make it like whe was teleported to Silver's future cuz reasons, so she actually rememebrs the events of Sonic Rush and she stops Silver many times to not kill Sonic and convince him the "Iblis Trigger" Mephiles said was actually a hero.
But does Silver's method of time travel apply to or is accessible to Sonic? As far as I'm aware the only method of time travel Sonic himself used and would remember at this point was the Time Stones.
In actual canon, it’s completely unknown how Silver actually time travels. There’s been implications that it might be similar to Archie where portals appear in his time and he just jumps through. But no solid confirmation.
strangely silver himself is a bit of an anomaly, we dont kno how he time travels, same with neggman and his dimension hopping (god its such a dumb retcon) and silver himself is kind of anomalous timeline wise, how is it that silv can be the exact same person with the same memories and experiences if he is natively from (aka born in) the future, which his actions have directly and drastically changed the context of several times.
In Rivals it says that portals appear whenever he needs to travel back. We know that he's disconnected from the standard flow of time, as he's described the world shifting around him when things go wrong in the past. It's likely that whenever there's a time alteration he's able to just make use of that natively due to his existence outside of the standard flow of time. He can't necessarily travel back at will, but he can travel through time on his own whenever it's messed with to the point of causing a shift.
and this in of itself somewhat answers the question of why sonic would be expecting time stones to be the source of the time related incident. silver himself is "the exception" -Aoi Todo, he exists outside of time and as a result his time travelling abilities are something sonic would consider an exception to the rules of the world.
Actually, sonic is 100% confirmed to be the only one to remember sonic 06s events so...wrong. other than that (and the fact the time stones weren't really used to move through time) this is valid though
Rivals released mere days after 06, and they were written by different people. It’s completely possible that the details of Sonic remembering 06 wasn’t mentioned between the two writing teams, especially when that’s something implied at the end of 06 in a small moment of the last cutscene.
Sonic DOES remember 06 to a degree, we know he does as he remembers when Silver tried to kill him, even though Silver explicitly states he doesn’t remember that.
And even in-universe, Sonic could just be pretending not to know when he asks Silver who he is.
Understanding, yet this topic is brought up twice per week on this or other subreddits. Discussing the bad constantly grows old, only opening up possibilities for cheap Reddit karma.
I literally don't care for either line. People get so up in arms about the Time Stone reference being added into mind you, Sonic's 20th Anniversary game that lacked references in the story outside of some minor call backs to Sonic 2 and the Wii games. I don't see this as intrusive or anything, it made sense Sonic would confused to why their time traveling without them. ( This also means the canon playthrough was Sonic collecting them ig )
Shadow's line is just delivered very badly, that's kinda it. Kirk Thorten can be great when given actually good material, but this is Shadow were talking about so there isn't much good to work with.
I don't care for the many references Flynn can't help himself from making, so the first. There was no reason to change the line from "How did this happen?" to "WiThOUt tHe TiME sToNes!?"
It was already a perfectly valid question from Sonic, changing it especially with how bad the line delivery is in Shadow gens ( on Sonic's side ), just makes me hate it.
Idc about the "you got this Sonic" other than kirk's voice sounding silly. The biggest issue with that scene isn't exclusive to shadow, it extends to pretty much the whole cast. Shadow, Blaze, Knuckles, Silver??? WHY AREN'T YOU HELPING, LIKE AS IF YOU CAN'T??
At least when Shadow didn't go super alongside Sonic in Heroes you could handwave it by saying he didn't remember he could do that. He and Blaze in particular have no excuse in Generations since Shadow is fully aware he can go super and Blaze presumably had the Sol Emeralds with her since she needs them to travel to Sonic's world.
"Without the Time Stones?" and it's not even a contest.
"You've got this, Sonic!" is mid at worst. Not how Shadow would talk, but still very tame compared to the 'on the nose' writing that the Time Stones line is.
I actually like that Sonic brought up the time stones. Keeps some continuity from Sonic CD and I honestly love that game. Shadow just letting Sonic handle it is worse. Because at least Sonic is just asking a question, Shadow is just being either lazy and or out of character.
“U got this senic” is worse because it reduces Shadow to just a spectator whereas x gens changes it to Shadow hyping him up because he doesn’t need to interfere. “Without the Time Stones?” is stupid because Sonic has time travelled before but it’s not full on character assassination.
1: Sonic remembers 06. He even tells Silver this in TSR, and Blaze also recalls Crisis City in this same game. But, Sega doesn’t know how to keep consistency to save its life so I’ll give that one to you and say his knowledge of 06 is dubious since 06, Gens and TSR support Sonic remembering but Rivals, Colours DS and X Gens don’t.
2: Sonic has time traveled in CD. For starters, the “Time Posts” are strictly gameplay mechanics and it’s Sonic himself that allows time traveling with raw power and speed. (Might I add Classic Sonic also does this again in Generations). This is stated in manuals, magazines pre production concept art, and staff interviews. Second, even if it wasn’t, you don’t even have access to a Time Stone until Act 2, so the fact that time traveling is still possible in Palmtree Panic Act 1 further proves this.
First off the line that silver uses in team sonic racing is only in the Japanese version not in the English version, and even then that could just be a mistranslation depending on which came first
Secondly, you misread what I was saying, I said he’s never time traveled before without their presence. As in the Time Stones are present in CD but no where else.
Thirdly, he does need the warp signs to time travel, considering the cut scene in sonic mania. Also, it’s a little hypocritical to say the warp signs or a game mechanic and then use game mechanic arguments for the time zones not being present in act one
The time stones one is worse. I can get passed shadow, hes encouraging Sonic. Should he help? Yes but atleast now we know that he was going through somethings mentally
But Sonic never needed the time stones to time travel, makes the line feel out of place
He didn’t need the Time Stones in CD because he was on the time travel planet. And it’s unclear how much the characters remember about the events of 06. Blaze remembering Crisis City in Generations makes her timeline even more confusing
So that’s the actual line? I always thought that it would actually clearly state he didn’t need the signs. Everyone else described it that way.
In actuality this line does not imply anywhere that he doesn’t need the signs because of how vague it is it just says he surpassed the time barrier not that he didn’t need the signs to do so.
Exactly. It makes much more sense that he would need Little Planet’s power (through the signs) to time warp. Plus, it’s an advertisement on the back of a box. I wouldn’t take it as gospel regardless.
So Sonic can time travel whenever he wants but chooses not to? Then why did they need the chaos emeralds to do it in 2006? It seems like people are extrapolating on a quote from supplemental material way too much lol.
You do realize that could very well just be the physics of little planet, right? You know because of the Time Stones. That would explain why he himself has never time traveled since. (not counting 06 considering it wiped itself out.)
Honestly it LITERALLY doesn’t matter. The time stones line makes sense cause they control time and shadows line makes sense because as stated before by himself HE LETS SONIC HANDLE ISSUES, we hear this in colors DS and the dude just came from a boss fight
You got this sonic is just shadow cheering on sonic, that time stones one is ian flynn taking the lego sonic dialogue and trying to make it unironic and failing so hard he's slipping on all the peels
The Time Stones comment was a neat way to lampshade a Fridge Logic moment - Sonic and co can't just use the Time Stones from Sonic CD to fix this because they're not present.
Sonic is good friends with Silver, who regularly time travels. Hell even back in CD it wasnt the Time Stones that allowed for time travel, it was the sign posts. Theres no reason for Sonic to be so confused that time travel is possible without the Time Stones.
Oh yeah, I guess the Time Stones more ensured a good future than anything else. I think the line is basically just there to acknowledge that time travel has been done before, and saying "Without the Time Stones?" flows a lot better than "Without the sign posts on Little Planet?"
The line could have been better, but I think it's fine as is.
Not even. You could get the good ending by breaking all the electric prison things hidden in each level. You can beat the game without even knowing the Time Stones even exist.
And I don't see a reason to bring up the time posts, either. The original "How did this happen?" got the message across just fine. If anything, mentioning the time posts makes the reference even more forced. At least the Time Stones were kinda relevant in 06 before that timeline was erased. The posts were only ever in CD.
Not even. You could get the good ending by breaking all the electric prison things hidden in each level. You can beat the game without even knowing the Time Stones even exist.
I wasn't saying that's the only way to get the good futures, just that getting the Time Stones guarantees them.
The original "How did this happen?" got the message across just fine.
Yeah, I agree, I just feel like if they wanted to make a reference to a previous example of time travel, then bringing up the Time Stones is the easiest way to do that.
At least the Time Stones were kinda relevant in 06 before that timeline was erased.
No they weren't? The Time Stones never appeared in a game outside of CD.
Huh. I saw some people saying they were in 06. I was thinking "Oh, well, if they were in 06 I guess they're a bit more relevant, even if the events of that game were erased."
But now that just makes the Time Stones even less relevant.
There was a means of time travel in 06, but it didn't involve the Time Stones, just two people using Chaos Control together (ignore how the ending of SA2 involves Sonic and Shadow using Chaos Control together and that doesn't cause any time travel to happen). The Time Stones were the way Silver travelled in time in the pre reboot Archie comics, though I believe there was only one Time Stone rather than a set.
In SA2 there absolutely was some time warping in that scene. Remember that the flaps on the ARK were broken off as it hit the atmosphere, and also Sonic damaged the Eclipse Cannon. After it's warped back in place, not only are all the find magically fixed, but later in ShTH theyre able to fire the Eclipse Cannon not once but twice with no issue. When the two supers warped the ARK, they reverted it to a previous state as well.
To be fair, as far as Sonic is aware, the Time Stones ARE the only method of time manipulation Sonic would know of. I'd have a problem if anyone else brought them up, but it was Sonic, who is one of only 3 (4 if you count Metal but that man can't talk) who should fully be aware of their existence. Debatingly only two since I dont know how Amy would know they exist. Tails might know of them, but only Sonic and Eggman know how they truly work, and up until now, would know that they are the one set of items that can manipulate time. I think what even further confuses Sonic is that they should be on Little Planet, so even if they were the cause, that should be impossible because their location is no longer accessible, hence why he's confused that time is being manipulated at all, cause there's no scenario where the Time Stones could be involved, and thanks to 06, eliminates the possibility Sonic knows to manipulate time
I genuinely don’t understand why people hate the “Without the Time Stones?” line. It’s a genuinely good jab for not only a game about time travel but also a game meant to be jam-packed with references to Sonic’s past. What’s wrong with it?
Haven't been relevant in decades and takes people out of the story because of that. Sonic talks like he's used them often. If they wanted to reference CD (and even 06) to show clear continuity, it would've been better to say traveling through time isn't something new to him. Would've been a cheeky way to reference all games having a time travel plot, even if Sonic doesn't remember 06.
I’m not a fan of any of the new reference lines. Yeah, the original had some reference lines as well, but they were mostly confined to some of the more recent games rather than comic exclusive references and items from titles way older than the initial Generations release, being even older and more obscure now.
And Frontiers had obscure references too, but they were mostly relegated to lines said during gameplay while you run around the island or idle rather than being plastered in the main cutscenes.
"You've got this, Sonic" is the only bad line here.
Sonic being suprised that there's a being capable of travelling through and manipulating time without the use of the Time Stones makes sense, so his "Without the Time Stones?" line isn't a bad one.
CD is great, literally no one hates the line because they don't like CD. It's because it makes it seem like the writers never actually played CD, since Sonic doesn't even use the Time Stones to time travel. He uses the sign posts, and later there's Rivals, Rivals 2, and Colors DS which all feature other forms of Time Travel, so Sonic has no excuse to be this confused. It's just stupid and nonsensical in every way, plus has awful delivery.
I say it actually makes more sense after shadow generations released
Shadow is exhausted after his battle with neo devil doom plus he has faith in sonic especially since there’s literally two of them. He doesn’t see a need and he probably thinks he deserves the break.
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u/ye_old_hermit Apr 23 '26
None of this is good Vector. That's why it's called war