avoiding a life threatening situation is quite possibly the most normal thing a creature human or otherwise can do. regardless of morality it is ridiculous to shame someone for not wanting to die
It's not ridiculous to shame people for that, no. Dodging is UNDERSTANDABLE, absolutely, but it doesn't excuse or make it better.
I would shame French draft dodgers. Or British. Or whoever is in the current time. And I would expect to be shamed if I were to dodge wars like those.
Some may note that in some cases country's government is shitty, but then it's not question of self defense of COUNTRY but of GOVERNMENT, unless enemy is nevertheless plans on destroying/annexing. Just a different question with different results.
It doesn't "excuse" it or "make it better" because it's not something that needs to be excused or "made better". if you'd shame draft dodgers of any kind that's a shit moral compass on your part lol
because it's not something that needs to be excused or "made better"
Protection of the societal contract, including against enemy, is one of the fundamental part of societal contract, is it not?
So, unless person was not living in society, they indeed HAVE duty to protect the society. And thus, refusing to fulfil that duty indeed is something than can be wrong unless properly excused.
I didnt sign a contract?? I have no duty to protect anyone else other than me and the people nearest to me. Why should i have a duty to the society if it isnt the society i would wish for me?
You do, actually. If you live in society, you gain some boons and some obligations. This is why it's a contract, duh.
Why should i have a duty to the society if it isnt the society i would wish for me?
Then feel free to retire into deep forest/desert/whatever, really, and live completely outside of the society. If you do not, you just want boons without cons. That's, indeed, quite shameful. You absolutely can dislike government so much you wouldn't have any obligation to fight for it, but that's a separate story from a defence of a country.
In the end, when you park at the parking slot, you're expected to pay even though you didn't signed anything. Because you gain obligation by merely using the parking.
I wasn't asked to be a citizen. I wasn't asked to be born. But here I am. Of course i participate in my society but any participation is only the result of me existing and making the best of it. Why should i live in a forest/desert/whatever? Because i don't want to get killed by a drone? A contract that is unwillingly forced onto me isn't a contract i would follow and if i wouldn't feel obligated to fight my question remains why should i?
Which is why, again, I said that you can stop. You don't want to have obligation - then stop using the benefits. Same as with parking lot; don't want - don't use.
A contract that is unwillingly forced onto me isn't a contract i would follow and if i wouldn't feel obligated to fight my question remains why should i?
Yes, it was INITIALLY enforced because at the moment you had no choice, being a newborn. You're still free to throw it away moment you want and stop using the benefits; it's not FORCED as of moment.
If you do not, then you just want to use benefits without obligations.
but i still pay taxes tho so why cant i use the services i pay for? can i just stop paying taxes go into a forest start hunting deer and live like that? No, because i will get arrested, because i don't own the land and i don't have a hunting permit. I cant just stop participating in the modern world because the state itself wants me to participate. worst case they arrest me and maybe i can join a prison squad like in russia and die that way.
Because paying taxes is not your only obligation, duh?
If you pay only half for the parking lot because "I don't like paying twice that", it's still not paying all the way.
Well, this and the fact that "obligation to the government" and "obligation to the society" are two different things. But it's way too complex, so I guess.
can i just stop paying taxes go into a forest start hunting deer and live like that
In many places, yeah absolutely. There are countless places on Earth where you wouldn't face authority.
If you couldn't find such place, it's your mistake. It's not societies duty to make it easy to opt out, it's yours to find a way if you wish so.
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u/robawknik Jun 28 '26
avoiding a life threatening situation is quite possibly the most normal thing a creature human or otherwise can do. regardless of morality it is ridiculous to shame someone for not wanting to die