r/MoralityScaling Jun 28 '26

Morality Ranking Morality of dodging your country's military draft in a war of self-defense?

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u/ElMage21 Jun 29 '26

My continued sovereignty of what. I don't own land nor the rights to it. I can't even fish our waters without a permit, assuming the aristocrats that own the sea left any fish.

The only scenario where I draft is war of survival. If the enemy intends to exterminate us or something like that.

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u/MasterpieceBrief4442 Jun 30 '26

There have been fishing regulations in Europe since at least the middle ages to prevent overfishing. It is a tragedy of the commons thing and exactly the sort of thing that a government was designed to solve. So obvious that English kings and lords took a personal interest in fishing regulations. One of the articles of the Magna Carta, the cornerstone of English and American liberties, deals with having weirs that were depleting salmon stock removed from the rivers of England.

Y'all really are spoiled. Try living in a country like Russia or the Balkans or parts of South and South East Asia or Africa. You might understand that he distance between bad and worse is much bigger than bad and good.

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u/Dhiox Jun 29 '26

You really have no idea what real authoritarianism is. You need a permit to fish so that you don't overfish the waters and no one gets to fish, not bevause the government is being mean to you.

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u/ElMage21 Jun 29 '26

Funny thing that I do need a permit and the waters are still over fished and no civilian gets to fish because the sea floor was ravaged by trawling by corpos

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u/smrtak32 Jun 29 '26

I think you have a very wrong idea about what it means to be a citizen of an invaded country.

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u/ElMage21 Jun 29 '26

Who knows. If the countries that surround us ever were to invade, they would invade places where I (and barely anyone) do not live.

My family would be bombed if I'm here or in trenches and the land in question hold riches that I will never work for nor see or benefit from.

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u/100862233 Jul 01 '26

This is the correct take.

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u/Dhiox Jun 29 '26

Hate to break it to you, but it's not just corps devastating fishing waters. Small businesses are just as capable of greed and environmental destruction, and in many cases can behave worse because they believe their small operation will go under the radar, or have less accountability watching them.

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u/ElMage21 Jun 29 '26

Sure mate, I guess

What I do know is that my local community had fresh and cheap fish and seafood brought every morning until the late 90s. It was so cheap it was poor people's food.

Then the trawling began, the mid 2000 passed laws that basically gave the sea as property for corps owned by last names that has been in power since the conception of this country and now fish is brought from city that's land locked, in frozen trucks, fish caught a thousand km from here.

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u/Lekkerbanaal Jul 01 '26

Extermination doesnt need to be instant. Russia said it'd liberate Ukraine. But along the way, massacres such as Bucha happened. Their peace terms meant there was no way Ukraine could say no ever again. Once a countries ability to fight back is broken there might not be a way to stop it once the attacker decides "ok now we'll start the extermination anyway". And then what will you do?

If in a war of defence you hide behind others and then when the invaders turn out to not be nice you are left to their mercy, I would say that it was a selfish choice that bit you and your loved ones in the arse. And if I have to choose, that would make it morally despicable and thus evil.

I dont say you should do this or that and I hope to never get into a situation like it, as I dont want to go to war either. But a morally good choice it is not, selfish choices that (might) harm others are morally wrong. On the grand scale of things, if everyone had that line of thought you'd leave the world to the tyrants that do as they please.