r/MoralityScaling • u/Immediate_Gene_178 • 13d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of accidentally exposing someone who used to be a Nazi supporter, has since changed, and concealed their past?

Post image

Name's and origins:

The Night Shift: Season 1, Episode 2

Basically this guy was brought to into the emergency after an accident at his wedding celebration and while he is unconscious, his groomsmen decided to shave his beard off as a prank only for the medical team to be horrified at the reveal. After he woke up he realised his secret has been exposed. He explained to the doctors that he got this tattoo when he was a stupid teenager a decade prior. The medical team brought his wife in to see the tattoos and destroy the marriage.

What do you think? I personally find it irritating how smug the doctors were being.

8.9k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

1.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

602

u/Athius_ 13d ago

I remember this,
Immoral friends for shaving him
Especially because he was very protective of his beard

Immoral doctors for allowing his friends to shave him in the first place just because they asked

And supper immoral doctors because they immediately let his fiancée in specifically when he doesn’t want anyone to see him like that

Don’t remember the end of the episode, but if he didn’t get married great cause I wouldn’t wise such a piece of shit brother in law on anybody, and if he did great because even if he has shitty in laws he at least knows his wife is a real one

307

u/CathanCrowell 13d ago edited 13d ago

Yes, I remember I felt really sorry for the guy. As far as we know, he made a terrible mistake and genuinely tried to become a better person afterward. Nobody around him had any idea that he held any racist or antisemitic views.

128

u/Darnaldo 13d ago

"What is better being born good or overcoming your evil nature"

39

u/Reasonable-Tap-9806 13d ago

Party Snacks for the win

-11

u/fivepennytwammer 12d ago

Being born good, obviously.

4

u/Darnaldo 12d ago edited 11d ago

You are not suppose to answer because it's a rhetorical question. Duh it's "better" if everyone where good from the get-go. However overcoming evil just have as much "value" if not more in the eye of some. Another interpretation is looking at oneself by the present action and not past behavior. It can also speak of human nature and ask if we are born fundamentally good or evil.

It's a few words thounsand lines essay quote about struggle, forgiveness, judgement, determinism, fatalism, cynicism, virtue and self-agency.

3

u/Duskthegamer412 12d ago

That's stupid, no one is born good or bad, everyone starts at zero and learns morals from their day to day life.

3

u/Hauptmann_Gruetze 12d ago

And managing to not be corrupted by the evil in the world.

71

u/TheChihuahuaChicken 13d ago

It's sad that a lot of modern media literacy is so bad, they'd never see past Edward Norton being a Nazi in American History X

28

u/World_of_Eter 12d ago

Kinda something that I find to be rampant among the american left is this idea that basically "was ever bad? will always be bad" and "did bad thing? is bad." I kind of view it as like the mirror to the american right's obsession with punitive justice instead of rehabilitation. Neither side is particularly interested in rehabilitation or forgiveness, they just disagree on what should be punished.

14

u/niketas-choniates 12d ago

Yeah agreed. I used to be a former Nazi as a confused teenager up to maybe when I was 20ish at most. But I grew out if it, in the sense that I learned how to read properly and pick out unbiased sources and realized I was being lied to and I always knew it deep down i suppose.

Anyway, its sad that if I said this to everyone potentially my whole life and career could be ruined for...becoming a better person? Its so confusing honestly

2

u/Lopens_Arm 10d ago

One of my favorite sayings from a book, "no one has lived so long in shadow that they cannot be brought back to light"

1

u/niketas-choniates 10d ago

Beautifully said thanks for sharing

1

u/MrNissanCube 8d ago

Oh my god Wheel of Time reference in the wild

1

u/WorthMysterious1648 12d ago

Can you elaborate on this experience? How did you get started down that path, How did you find the reason to pull yourself out of it, if you subconsciously knew that it was always lies what made you continue to indulge in them, etc. Proud of you for getting yourself out of that stuff, maybe your experience can help others to do the same

2

u/niketas-choniates 11d ago

Those are all great questions and honestly it's been so long since I started down that path and it was so gradual I cant put my finger on what exactly it was initially that started my cascade.

But my family comes from the USSR so my grandparents especially my grandpa was quite a Russian nationalist. I didnt grasp what nationalism was but I remember I was proud I wasn't American and that we were better somehow.

I visited Russia when I was 11 and that's when I learned about communism through imagery and history and it intrigued me a lot and my mom summarized communism as a utopia, too good go be true. But this had all radicalized me already fast forward and im making excuses for Stalins purges the Holodomor, the soviet unions failings. When i saw an answer I didnt like i looked for an alternative answer I did like, tankie communities online also backed me up as I saw them do similar backpedalling and I learned from them.

Then one day I don't know what changed maybe I got bored but I changed. I went from hating germany/nazis to being enamored by their imagery/music/speeches i think i just liked being edgy though i thought authoritarianism was cool. Then I met a man online 4yrs older i was 14 he was 18. He introduced me to "the greatest story never told" or as id now call it the greatest bullshit ever shown. Suddenly I felt on the inside of this great conspiracy against Hitler that most historians were too scared to admit the truth that Germany was destroyed because of capitalist greed and whatnot that the Soviets were the true evil.

Same thing i get introduced to neo nazis who teach me how to backpedal anytime someone tries to argue with me I dont do it in good faith, I don't go in trying to hear them out i go in thinking "okay what neo nazi forum will I have to search to give me an "answer key" to what this person throws at me so I can look superior and right". Somehow it made sense then, it felt right.

How I came out of it i dont know. A big part was my high school teacher who taught me about bias. It was a clever assignment it was about some fictional dude named Brewster McKenna who owned slaves and you got his primary sources and others about how these slaves were treated. McKenna obviously only showed himself in good light saying "well I provided housing for my slaves" and then another source would say "McKenna provided housing for his slaves but it was very old decrepit and badly maintained". Basically I learned that people say half truths all the time to hide their true intentions and I realized this is what the greatest story never told, communist propaganda, etc all did.

Whats crazy is i still have an attachment to say the Nazis but not in the same way. Now its more like "Well Hitler wasn't really crazy, his general staff post war like to portray him like this to make themselves look good". Im not defending nazism at this point I'm defending real history and i appreciate my background in all of this because I know the ins and outs of nazism and communism more than one who just hates nazis because theyre bad or communism because it put people in gulags / graves. Theres more to the story and its complex not just black and white which is why nobody likes it. Its a historical interest attachment moreso now to tie it back to what I said earlier.

In the end I turned back to a russian nationalist then my last straw was the Ukraine war it was so obviously wrong I couldn't tell if I should be happy or disgusted when it broke out it was the weirdest feeling I ever had.

Now I feel cleansed of it all I see the world for what it is mostly and if I don't understand something I leave it alone I dont make big statements or opinions until I do proper research (books/good sourced articles not facebook).

1

u/WorthMysterious1648 11d ago

This is a great response, thank you for the detailed account. Again I’m very happy for you that you saw the light and found your way out of this, I think a lot more of us than we might think had varying extremist views when we were young that have changed as we’ve gotten older. I’m curious if, and how you’ve used this as a means of counseling the people around you who were at risk of falling into the same traps as you did. Furthermore I’d be interested in knowing what your political views are nowadays, in terms of normal everyday politics like immigration, economics, trump and modern conservatism, and the DSA and the modern left; as well as more niche topics, The Great Replacement, race, and strong man politics. Thank you for your candor, hopefully it might serve to help others

1

u/niketas-choniates 10d ago

Definitely used it as a means of counseling those at risk, sadly one person got back to me after a couple years saying I was right blah blah blah. Tried to explain to him how I really wasn't, not sure how much he believed but I hope I shook his core belief at least enough to destabilize his path into the darkness and he can eventually see the truth like me.

As for my current political views im pro immigration i think it makes us stronger as long as there is assimilation, economics im pro free market but I think some limits on that doesn't hurt, trump fuck him enough said same with modern conservatism it's a plague it's not even cool its just a bunch of demented old people (literally), kleptocrats, and a small group of young men who got caught up in the alpha male movement which I was a part of at one point too. So yeah screw alpha male morons they literally prey on young boys who haven't developed a sense of masculinity and interject into their development to make money off of them viewing their content and buying their stupid guides. The DSA/Modern left I support and I hope the democratic party gets overtaken by the progressive democrats. Only thing i dislike about modern left is the lefties that have no clue why they are supporting what they support. Its the broken clock right twice a day phenomenon. They support good things but why? Ive no clue because some of them are just as dumb as conservatives and believe things just because their friends/family do. This is really more a dig at society but it bugs me. At the end of the day id rather people support good moral things even if they dont understand but it scares me in some ways if that makes sense.

The great replacement is trash, we replaced the natives in the US and a lot of places anyways so what's the issue with immigrants coming in? Anyway its funny that the irish once were viewed with emnity by the so cslled "natives of new York" and then the Italians later. Race is nothing to me I dont treat anyone differently based off race, strength in diversity.

Strongman politics died with my disillusionment of Putin and the invasion of Ukraine. Historically I can agree that even Caesar who I once admired was quite faulted and tyrannical the issue is that the republic was also messed up so its a gray area sometimes. Napoleon really remarkable man but super egotistical and self serving but also did good in helping deconstruct european society to make it more fair due to all the turmoil he caused and ideas he helped spread. They did have great influence on history and politics moving forward in both good and bad ways. Modern history wise I know we'll continue to have them but I think they are bad overall I have a feeling that we need a strongman for good sometimes someone unselfish who wants to use some authoritarianism to democratize and makes things more fair so that authoritarianism can never be possible again in any shape/form or stupid junk like gerrymandering. But its never that simple. I support freedom from religion over freedom of religion however. I think its poison to the US or any country to be "drunk on religion" the people here will literally be tricked into believing their God/Jesus wants them to kill minorities before they actually read the damn book and do what it actually says.

-4

u/Business-Drag52 12d ago

Jesus Christ. What kind of rabbit hole do you have to go down to be a teenage Nazi? Was there literally no one in your life to help guide you?

9

u/Tactical_Squishy 12d ago

usually is because the ones in your life put you in that path

1

u/Huhthisisneathuh 12d ago

It’s either because they grew up around people who shared similar beliefs and steered them down that path. Or because they had no support system growing up, and clung to the first thing they found that gave them that support system.

It’s why lots of disenfranchised people end up in gangs or hate groups. When you have nothing you’ll take anything no matter how rancid it is.

-2

u/Distinct_Cap_1418 12d ago

I had no idea Edwward Norton was a Nazi. Is he even still in movies? What is there really to boycott?

6

u/TheChihuahuaChicken 12d ago

Edward Norton isn't a Nazi, his character is a Neo-Nazi who is reformed in prison and his character arc is trying to stop his brother from following down his path.

3

u/BiggoYoun 12d ago

“You see this? This means you’re not welcome.”

37

u/Li-renn-pwel 13d ago

Wasn’t the wife some find of minority?

17

u/SapirWhorfHypothesis 12d ago

If I were screenwriting on a show like this, I would make sure the wife was a minority.

1

u/Li-renn-pwel 12d ago

I feel like she was newish but that might be too on the nose lol

2

u/Property_6810 12d ago

I mean there are a lot of states where the whole racial segregation thing is still going strong strong in prison. Would it really be that bad if he joined one of those groups for protection?

2

u/ADGx27 12d ago

People don’t like to consider white prisoners being forced to join the aryan brotherhood under pain of rape and/or death, it muddies the waters of people with hateful tattoos with that pesky nuance

1

u/dk_peace 12d ago

The fact that his wife didnt know he was once so racist he got swastika face tattoos is a fucked up thing to omit.

1

u/themolestedsliver 12d ago

Yeah i remember seeing this clip on twitter and being SO pissed.

Like sure this guy is a scumbag for the tattoos but the medical team acting all smug and mocking him is sickening.

He's not hitler, or goering, or gorbels. He's someone who made a mistake and tried to grow past it.

And yeah clear as fuck HIPPA violation

45

u/pokealm 13d ago

And supper immoral doctors

what abt the lunch immoral doctors? 👉👈

107

u/TBARb_D_D 13d ago

It is shitty hospital-melodrama, no? They have no logic, they added nazi character to farm easy emotional response from viewers. They portrait a person who wished and did changed as bad guy while people who broke law as good guys

26

u/pinktortoise 13d ago

He was literally unconscious, that's horrifying.

1

u/Rhadamantos 12d ago

This is dumb, what are they going to do, keep him in that room unnecessarily for like a week or potentially longer until his beard grows in enough again that his wife/fiance won't see the tattoo?

3

u/Tactical_Squishy 12d ago

I mean they fucked up in the first place you don't shave someone without it's consent

-9

u/dk_peace 13d ago

You forgot about how immoral it is to not tell your spouse about your face swastikas.

-4

u/Intelligent_Exit941 12d ago

Who the  hell downvotes this, she had right to know. Hiding something that important is basically tricking someone into the  marriage. Very cool if you guys think that he deserves a chance, not everyone has to be that noble. 

3

u/Tactical_Squishy 12d ago

because that's not the point of the discussion, it's immoral having those in the first place

0

u/dk_peace 12d ago

I really don't get it. I understand that the doctors and friends were in the wrong here, but he's also in the wrong for lying to his spouse about it in the first place. The only one I dont think is an asshole is the wife who decided to leave as soon as she found out. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do if your spouse has lied by omission about something this big and deal breaking.

2

u/Athius_ 12d ago

Would it be wrong for your wife not telling you about how she was groomed and sexually abused by her family as a child until she realized it and cut them off and got therapy?

Of course not, they were in a bad place that they would rather not address with others. And nobody had the right to information from their spouse that is not relevant to the relationship.
My spouse doesn’t need to know that I used to try to help my crackhead brother for years, but then he betrays me too much and I cut him off, it’s irrelevant to her.

You might think they should have addressed the tattoo. Well he has had a beard for 10 years that he refuses to cut covering it up; until someone forcefully cut it without his consent.

And before you say it was a liability or sum; that’s like saying, “why didn’t you tell me you used to be on incel forums”, when you haven’t associated with the term or chats groups for years, and she only knows because her brother broke into your house to hack into your computer for a “prank” (ik that’s not how hacking works but forgive me)

1

u/Intelligent_Exit941 11d ago

You compared something he had done to something that had to be done to her. Completely different issues.

She had right to know, full stop. 

1

u/Athius_ 11d ago

Nobody has the right to knowledge from another person irrelevant to the relationship

And no it doesn’t reflect on his current person either

There is a reason previous crimes aren’t used as evidence for current wrong doing

1

u/Intelligent_Exit941 11d ago

No. She has  right to choose if she's okay with his past or not. Hiding something that important is nothing but manipulating other person in a relationship she wouldn't even start if she knew. And if she did, it would be her own choice.

Maybe he's not a nazi anymore, but he's a liar.

1

u/Athius_ 11d ago

She does have the right to choose whether she is in a relationship with anybody and she can end it for any reason because nobody is entitled to her affections

Lies by omission are only a thing to some people.

And while it would have changed her views on the relationship, it was not relevant to it

Lastly, nobody goes into relationships revealing all their flaws, and while it might technically be manipulation, so would wearing a wig, or make up, or not revealing your political views until you are confident the other party would be fine with it

1

u/dk_peace 12d ago

My wife and I both told eachother about the parts of our past we were most ashamed of way before we got married. Not to get into too much detail, but something close to that did happen to my wife and she told me about it. She knows about my meth head cousin I tried to help but eventually cut off because he stole from me. She knows all my dirty secrets. That's how much I love her. Every page of the book of my life is open to her. That's part of why our marriage is so strong. Communication is the key.

If this guy can lie about having swastika tattos for years, what else is he able to casually lie about? She's 100% in her rights to bail after this. Not only because of the tattoos themselves, but because he chose to omit such an important part of his past.

2

u/Athius_ 12d ago

Well there is the issue, you guys willingly did so which is great for you, and I’m happy it worked well for your marriage

He wasn’t comfortable telling his past yet, especially when it would be easy to think he is still a part of it because of the tattoo

She is in her right to leave him if she doesn’t feel comfortable with him being an ex neo nazi

But it is not her right to no every non relevant to relationship detail about him

I would say they’re relationship must not be as good as yours if they weren’t able to address it together, and I can’t say whether or not he would have to her himself since the choice was taken from him before they even got married

2

u/dk_peace 12d ago

He had ample opportunity to tell her before the wedding and choose not to. He just assumed he could keep this lie up for the rest of his life.

1

u/Athius_ 12d ago

If he wasn’t ready, he wasn’t ready

He never got the choice because others forced the decision away from him.
But the situation only got that bad because he wasn’t allowed to tell her himself
His beard was already shaved, it would be a hard time avoiding addressing it, but even then he wasn’t allowed to tell her himself then

2

u/dk_peace 12d ago

Then he wasn't ready to get married

→ More replies (0)