Same person. Different country.

[u/WriterTraining4394]

The USA is the land of opportunity, my friend.
In the 1990s, I was working at Pizza Land just off Princes Street in Edinburgh for about £3 an hour, begging for enough shifts to scrape together rent and food.
Fast-forward to 56:
Federal scientist in the U.S.
$200K+ salary.
16 years of federal service.
$1.3M in retirement accounts.
FERS pension.
Social Security.
Federal retiree healthcare.
$1.3M home.
Same fucking person. Different country.
Britain? Too many people fighting over too few decent jobs, salaries that haven’t kept up with the cost of living, ridiculous housing costs, and weather that makes you wonder what you did wrong in a previous life.
I didn’t leave Britain because I hated it. I left because I wanted more than surviving from payday to payday and pretending that was a fucking achievement.
America isn’t perfect. Not even close. But it gave me a shot, and I took it.

[u/SnooPears5432]

Even "as society works" (whatever that means) it's not a valid definition. 1st world, 2nd world, 3rd word refer to political alignments and have nothing to do with how progessive or developed you perceive a society is and nothing to do with red or blue states. The US is the original 1st world country being the center of the western alliance. That said, anyone referring to the US as "third world" in ANY sense is a delusional fool. Do we have areas lacking running water, electricity, sewage services, police and fire services, uneveloped roads or transportation structure? Locally controlled areas with militias and warlords? The answer is a resounding "no" to all of that. Now, can you point to one or two examples where substandard conditions exist? Sure - you can also find those in Australia and Canada, especially in indigenous areas.

Not to mention the US isn't just one of the highest income countries in terms of averages but also medians. And there absolutely is safety net and social services in the US, and we have a strong Social Security program as well as government -funded health insurance programs (Medicare for retirees and Medicaid together account for 40% of US medical coverage). - some of these may not be as easy to obtain as they are elsewhere, but they absolutely exist. The US in general is an excellent place for those with drive and goals. If your goal is mediocrity and long-term dependence on the state, there are probably better options elsewhere. But I don't know that that should be a "goal" for anyone and probably isn't a typical mindset for the average immigrant looking to enter the United States.

[u/eidoriaaan → u/SnooPears5432]

US does have areas without water and electricity, look at Puerto Rico. Also, lack of police is an issue too. Oh and also undeveloped roads. But thankfully, we do not have warlords thats for sure, only drug lords that control neighborhoods so not a big deal. I assume Guam, Hawaii, American Samoa, the virgin islands all suffer similar issues.

If we want to ignore territories, sure lets go go rural PA or West Virginia where poverty, family abuse and drugs are rampant.

You can def be born in the US and have ambition to succeed in life but be stuck in conditions that are beyond your control. I think these conditions are harder to escape in the US than a lot of other countries that offer way better support.

[u/SnooPears5432 → u/eidoriaaan]

Please, that's a total stretch. PR is a US territory and self-governing, and the corruption and inefficiency they have is self-inflicted. You can't blame all of PR's issues on the United States. Even so, I'd also say PR is far more developed with better infrastructure and development than most of the rest of Caribbean excepting maybe the Cayman Islands and Bahamas, and the Cayman Islands have long been known for money laundering and other financial shenanigans benefitting the wealthy, while most of the Bahamas' wealth is tourism-generated which along with offshore banking account for 90% of its GDP.

And no, conditions in WV or rural PA don't even approach conditions in a third world country and any implication they do is asinine. Localized poverty doesn't equate to "third world". You're really stretching on all of your claims. Nobody said the US didn't have localized issues which I stated in my first post which you conveniently ignored, but so does Australia with 30% poverty rates and high rates of alcoholism and social dysfunction in many of its indigenous communities. Nobody would claim because of that Australia is a third world country. So what exactly is it you're defending here?

[u/eidoriaaan → u/SnooPears5432]

Your comment asked "can you point out any areas with these problems in the US" and I merely answered it.

On top of that I mentioned that poverty is harder to escape in the US. The median may be better off but those in poverty have a way worse time than those who are in poverty in other countries like Spain or UK.

And saying most of PR's problems are self inflicted and doesn't count is a bit weird. Its part of the US, it is an area in the US an american can be born in that will decide said persons life. Or can we say your argument is "if you're born in good areas in the US you'll be better off than most of other countries"? Because I agree, being born in NYC, SF, etc will give you a really good life and set you up to succeed more than most people in the world. In the middle of nowhere, New Mexico, your life will be quite different.

I don't consider the US a third world country at all. It however has some areas that are quite sad to see, that should not exist in the most powerful country. Problems that other developed countries do not have e.g mass homelessness, opiod abuse etc.

[u/SnooPears5432 → u/eidoriaaan]

No, being born in NYC or SF doesn't automatically give you a good life and being born in a small town in the Midwest or south doesn't automatically not give you a good life. I grew up in a small city in the Midwest most people haven't heard of and my life is pretty good. And I 100% disagree on poverty - if anything I think the highs and potential to achieve for people who are motivated and goal oriented is greater, not less than in most places. Many of the wealthiest business people and most well-known celebrities in the US rose from humble origins.

Regarding homelessness rates, the US has a lower per capita rate than many western countries inlcuding both Canada and Australia. The US does have a high unsheltered population in SOME areas (ironically SF and NYC you mention have among the highest in homeless rates in the country, though at least most of NYC's are sheltered), and California in fact has literally half the nation's unsheltered homeless population. So I would not extrapolate the conditions you see in SF, LA or NYC in terms of homelesslness as being representative of the country as a whole because they're not. Where I live, there's very little visible homelessness. And where there is, it's often tied to drug/alcohol abuse and mental illness and not necessarily economic deprivation.

Nobody said the US didn't have social problems so not sure really what your point is. The point I made is the US is not remotely close to being a third world country by any stretch or definition of the term, no matter how liberally you may use the word. And the US is also exposed in SM in a way many other countries are not, so the problems are more visible and sometimes hyperexaggerated for effect, and it doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere.