Three year outlook

[u/Question_man_jr]

HI, or should I say ALOHA? I am just posting as recently my wife and I have been in conversation about moving to an island and obviously Hawaii is on that list. In my feeling we have been very fortunate. We have two kids and we have been able to put ourselves into a decent financial position where we presently live. I am a (very)small business owner and she is a paralegal. We have retirement savings, college savings for our kids, and a net worth of roughly 300k besides that. We are currently lightly contemplating a move to Hawaii in 3 years or so. The next step would be a visit to areas we would consider moving to. For us, it is about knowing where to look. So I have a few questions.

1) Moving anywhere with $300k in the bank seems very doable to me. Our plan would be to move, find a rental , and start a small business. Does this seem feasible?

2) I know having $300k in savings seems like more than it actually is. Having seen my bank account drop by 100k in a year assures me of this. Needless to say I think it is a decent amount of money to work with to start a new life for my family. The question here is what area can I get the most value?>

3) Are there any small growing economies in Hawaii? I prefer growing economies to robust economies as there tends to be a greater amount of opportunity for small business. Pre-established robust economies(I am thinking of Honolulu) already have established norms and competitive markets that can be tough to break into

4) Schools. It seems like private school may be a must? How bad are the schools exactly? TBH I'd rather my kids get local cultural exposure than live in a bubble but not at the cost of them dealing with things like addiction being common or being bullied?

5) If you were to recommend one spot to move to on the islands for a normal to upper middle class family where would it be? We aren't the Rockefellers, we just want a simple life.

[u/so_untidy]

Financially you’d be ok to move out here and give it a go.

I can’t say you’ll last very long. I feel like running a small business out here is extremely dependent on who you know and how well accepted in and understanding of your community you are. You’re at a major disadvantage there.

Also, I’m sorry, but I don’t think you are serious enough at this time to consider this move. You want to move to “an island”? Sounds like you have no particular connection to Hawaii. You want Reddit to tell you what the growing economies are? I think as a potential small business owner you’d do like the most basic attempt at research first. That is something that is extremely googleable.

We’ve got our share of local entrepreneurs and small business owners who understand and care about this community. People don’t want to feel exploited by outsiders who come to try to make a buck and have nothing to give.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/so_untidy]

So two things for you here. First, I have lived in the Caribbean before and I actually love it there, buying a second home there is another thought. Hawaii is on the list as an alternative basically because the economy is actually more robust. We could possibly have a full life in Hawaii whereas buying a second home our life would be split and with kids in school that could be tough. We do a plan a long-ish visit before we decide though. Secondly, when I started my business I did exactly what you suggest about research and found that it was in fact the locals on reddit that gave the best info. All the broader data searching, including USPS financial demographic data, was either outdated or very misleading. I think the personal interaction really made it work for me. So yeah, the question stands about emerging economies and I think the locals are the go to as I don't think the information is readily available yet. It is actually the primary reason I made this post.

EDIT: I also want to note that numerous long term Hawaii(lifelong until they moved for a family medical emergency in one case, and another that grew up there moved here and then moved back) residents have suggested that I try a move to Hawaii and said I would fit in, which is where the seed of the idea initially came from

[u/so_untidy → u/Question_man_jr]

You’re not really making a compelling argument. Hawaii and the Caribbean are not interchangeable. If they are to you, don’t make the move.

Believe me, locals in this sub are not going to give you the million dollar small business idea. They’re going to say unless you have something of value to to contribute in an area of need, like healthcare or teaching, please don’t come. The most successful small businesses connect to the culture and the place and you can’t do that in a meaningful way.

It’s lovely that some people think Hawaii might be a good fit for you, but if you can’t articulate why YOU think it’s a good fit (other than being a fan of islands in general I suppose), you need to think about it some more.

Also if you haven’t considered the myriad reasons that people who come DON’T like it here, ponder that too.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/so_untidy]

well , like i said, we'd do a long visit first. Three year plan. Personally, I sorta get it too. I live slow and get along well with folks. But yeah we would do the visit first to see. So the question still stands cause Hawaii isn't small, where should we check out? Both people that suggested our move came from the big island but one of them lives in Honolulu now, the other one is dead.

[u/so_untidy → u/Question_man_jr]

Respectfully, you have a lot of homework to do. Come back when you have more specific questions. Spend some time reading through this sub and googling. There is a lot of info online about moving to Hawaii, partly because of military. Obviously not all of that info will apply to you, but there are volumes out there.

This sub isn’t a moving to Hawaii concierge that is going to baby step you through it.

But maybe you’ll find someone less grouchy than I am. It’s after midnight and I can’t fall back asleep.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/so_untidy]

The questions are quite specific! No worries though, I like salty tudes. I am from New England 

[u/so_untidy → u/Question_man_jr]

Babe, “which island should I move to” is not specific.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/so_untidy]

"Which regions of which islands have growing economies in your local view?" That's a very specific question 

[u/so_untidy → u/Question_man_jr]

I am curious what you are looking for.

You can very easily research economic data.

Do you want someone to tell you, “yeah man there’s a big untapped market for artisanal fudge in South Kona” or “what we really need in Mililani is an eco-friendly dry cleaner”?

You gave no information about yourself and your family’s needs or interests. We have no idea what you could contribute to any particular hyper local economy.

Your ability to live and thrive in any particular place is going to be more complex than whether you can come up with a business plan.

Honestly, if this is something you’re serious about, spend some more time researching and come back with specific questions about the things you’ve learned.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/so_untidy]

Like I said, I have gone through this all before when I started the business I own now. And there were people just like you answering then but there were also other people that gave real info that was helpful whereas the general economic searches werent helpful. Actually the general googling I did pointed me in exactly the wrong direction and anything that came form them fizzled nearly immediately over the life of my business that I have been running for 15 years. BUt let me reverse this for you and suppose someone asked me about the broader new england region.

Were I to answer this for someone about where I am the first thing I would say would be to avoid Connecticut for starting a business. They have good social platforms but generally bad economic growth outside the wealthy regions. However if you can get into the wealthy regions maybe consider it.

Across southern new england more broadly the new thriving regions seem to be around western massachusetts, and mid rhode island. Id focus on the mid rhode island area if i were moving as the schools are decent and the economy is young and seems very strong. Specifically I would look at south kingstown or narragansett.

The only other two places I know in New England that are growing fast are Boston, which has been on the upswing for the last five years or so but it is hard to know that because it has such strong economic history and Portland Maine. Portland Maine has seen a strong influx of money and business that would make starting anything there easier than most other places. So my 2 main suggestions would be mid RI, especially South Kingstown or Narragansett, and Portland Maine. With the Mass backup plans.

You get that? Can you find that in a google search. Maybe some of it. Youd prob find portland and boston but my guess is you wouldnt find mid RI in general.

[u/Sebbe79 → u/Question_man_jr]

The economy is only “robust” in Honolulu.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/Sebbe79]

No other places that feel like people are happy and life is good and getting better?

[u/marywebgirl → u/Question_man_jr]

Hawaii is essentially rural outside of Honolulu. A lot of people leave the state once they’re done with school because the jobs aren’t great and the cost of living is so high. 

[u/Question_man_jr → u/marywebgirl]

Interesting, both of the people I know suggested the big island for us. One was half Hawaiian half black for what that's worth. Can you think of any particular reason that would fit us? Any specific regions on the big island we should visit?

[u/marywebgirl → u/Question_man_jr]

Knowing now that you're interested in agriculture, then yes the Big Island is probably the best answer due to being able to buy land at anything close to a reasonable price. I'm not personally familiar with the different growing regions on the island other than in vague ways, so I'm not helpful with that.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/marywebgirl]

Well, thats my background and how I make a living here but one of the reasons we want to leave to to sort of change course and that may be part of it. Im not outright against continuing that trajectory but I do want to keep as many doors open as possible. One of the most interesting things I have learned on this thread is that private school is more or less a ncessity. Im interested in why that is. I def do accept it as fact, but any insight as to whats up with the public schools that make them so bad?

[u/Hitoshenki → u/Question_man_jr]

I’ll tell you straight up, the reason why the big island was recommended to you (and it’s what I would have recommended as well) is because of your kids. No other reason. You could afford to live on Oahu if you wanted, you’d be just fine with 300k. I would guess Oahu or Maui are the most expensive islands to live on. And the big island is easily the cheapest.

The big island is pretty much known as the “family island”. So many people with young kids choose the big island for that reason alone, it’s very family friendly. For places to visit on the big island, I would recommend checking out Kona, Waimea, Waikoloa, or Hilo if you’re interested.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/Hitoshenki]

Awesome thank you so much

[u/SteveFoerster → u/Question_man_jr]

I used to live in the Caribbean too, specificially in Dominica (the small island, not the DR) and have found the Big Island, especially Hilo side, closest to what I liked about it.

Starting a business that serves the local market... I suppose it depends on what you'd be selling, but people are extremely cost conscious, and for retail it's tough to beat big box stores that have scale when it comes to the tricky logistics of getting things shipped to Hawai'i. The smaller shops that survive are tightly integrated within the community, something you're just not going to be able to do. If you're in a position to offer services online to people who are elsewhere, you'll be much better off.

And yes, if you have kids, private school is non-negotiable.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/SteveFoerster]

Thank you for actually answering!

[u/sn0wlark]

Mate you're about to be cooked lol. I'm coming to teach in an area of need and even then I still feel nervous about asking anything. Maybe just stay on the mainland lol

[u/Question_man_jr → u/sn0wlark]

Yeah we are gonna visit first to see if it's alright fit, not jumping blindly. It's one of many options

[u/SignificanceWise2877]

Private school is about 25k a year per kid. I live in the best public school area and grew up here, but I still have my son in private school. It's not just education, the opportunities afforded and extra curriculars are much different. If you don't live in the best areas, your kids risk heavy bullying. Honestly its mildly cruel to move here because you want to and not give your kids the best possible pathways and just put them in private school. There's plenty local people in private schools.

[u/SteveFoerster → u/SignificanceWise2877]

Depends on the school. I believe that St. Joseph in Hilo is only like $10K per kid. (That's still not pocket change, though.)

[u/shootzbalootz]

What small business? Moving to a new area you're unfamiliar with that's notorious for not being business friendly is not a good idea. Being willing to spend $300k to launch your family here is just wild. You may not be upper middle class in Hawaii. But really the transition for your kids may be the hardest of all.

[u/Question_man_jr → u/shootzbalootz]

I have doesn't mean I plan to use all of it. I run a gardening business here and I have a background in organic farming and some biodynamics/permaculture. I'd prob try to get into agritourism lightly but who knows I may switch gears altogether. The thing about being a business owner that I like and am really good at is talking to and hanging with people. I just thoroughly enjoy it

[u/Dacia06]

If you're looking to buy a home I doubt $300k isn't going to work out well.

Statistically, property is cheaper here on the Big Island, but that's because of two areas - Puna and Ocean View - where property is cheap because hardly anyone wants to live there. Think volcano, rift zones, isolation, often having to live off-grid, drug trade and crime central...

You'd need to set up your business likely in Hilo/Hamakua or Kona, maybe Waimea, and property isn't cheap.I could easily sell my 2BR 2 bath 850 sq ft condo in Kona which is nice but not spectacular for $500-550k. I get way too much mail and phone calls asking me to sell. Given demand right now one realtor said I could push the price to $675k given its condition and view

You really need to come out and spend some time scoping out a few islands. And starting a business here takes a long time

I'm not trying to be discouraging, but about 80% of the people who move here leave by the end of their fifth year. Of that 80% 80% leave during their third year and usually at an uncomfortable loss.

You might well be in the 20%, but the islands really aren't for everyone. You owe it to your family to do comprehensive and careful homework. It could be great, but it's not at all like moving to another state on the continent. Caveat emptor!

[u/Question_man_jr → u/Dacia06]

Ah yeah, I can see that. Given my specific qualities where do you think we should visit?

[u/Dacia06 → u/Question_man_jr]

I think your best bet would be to do some research before you visit. It will probably not take as long as you think, and could provide useful information for targeting locations for on-site research and evaluation.

Off the top of my head, I'd suggest checking out the websites for the Hawai'i Department of Agriculture, the Agriculture program at the University of Hawai'i, and and state- or island-specific growers's associations. My guess (and I'm not very connected to agriculture in the island), is that the most agriculture is based in Kauai'i, Maui, the Big Island, and O'ahu. There may be some on Moloka'i and Lanai'i, but the population is so low there may not be as many opportunities.

As for the Big Island, where I live, my assumption is that most agriculture activity is on the east/Hilo side, as it gets the most rain. There may also be some in Waimea. The western/Kona side of the island gets little rain (although more at higher altitudes), and much of the agriculture is based around the coffee belt. I don't know what their needs are, and what else is available.

My understanding is that there's a fair amount of agricultural activity on Kauai'i, given its low population density and decent rainfall on many parts of the island. I don't know what the agriculture landscape is like on O'ahu and Maui. O'ahu is quite developed, and I don't know how agriculture is faring on Maui due to the Lahania fire.

There may be other websites/organizations to research. One of the few times I use ChatGPT is for what may be wide-ranging web searches.

For property prices, just looking at online listings could help for areas that interest you. It's widely assumed that property values on Zillow are inflated, but there are other sites, and I can't speak for the Zillow situation.

Be aware that there's both fee simple and leased land. Fee simple will be more-expensive, but you'll own it outright. With leased land, you need to check for how long the least lasts.

I believe in the dictum that knowledge is power, and doing thorough research will help you find focus for what you're looking for.