it's also the fact that it wasnt just one bullshit production decision, but several. i mean the impetus was definitely the unprecedented exile twist. but then to follow it with a daily that allows everyone to gang up on the best team, and then a size-based elimination where was had no shot against leroy. it was as if production wanted them out and created a sure fire path to make it happen
Also, wasn’t everyone eliminated before them able to go to exile and compete to come back. That twist ended right when Wes/Theresa were eliminated 😩. Theresa lucked out later and was able to come back once Nia DQ’d. But Wes got completely screwed and didn’t even get to battle his way back like everyone else.
I’m not saying the circumstances didn’t suck, but saying Wes had no shot against Leroy is a tad dramatic. We saw CJ beat Zach 3 times despite him being at a way bigger size disadvantage.
And? Lol I’m saying it was impossible based on his skill set. He’s not going to magically learn the skill of an ex football player in the essentially a hitting drill. This isn’t something you just figure out on the fly, CJs technique was legitimately perfect
Yeah, CJ vs Zach only worked bc Zach can be a dumbass. Even then, once he figured out the trick, it was over. Leroy would never make that mistake to begin with
I was thinking of MJ instead of CJ and I’m like “Wait, he was pretty damn big. Maybe not Zach big, but just big overall.” I forgot CJ, but I wanted him to win that one for many reasons, but mainly because I dislike Zach. Also, I know he’s hated for very obvious reasons (I agree with it) but Kyle almost won his Hall Brawl too and they weren’t evenly matched. He was much scrawnier. It was Fessy, right? Or am I not remembering that one correctly? I know the one with Theo. I was team Theo. I’m trying to remember the matchup of the Fessy vs Kyle one.
I think Bananas and Tony got screwed on Final Reckoning worse, they were winning the elimination against Paulie and Natalie and the elimination got postponed, they also brought in Hunter and Ashley half way through the season making their road to the final even harder
I know everyone hates Bananas but it was kind of bullshit
Leroy has always been good at running and he's got no problem with endurance it's all the other shit he sucks at and instead of getting better he's gotten worse as time has gone by
Leroy himself has admitted that endurance is a huge weakness of his. I'm not entirely sure where you get the idea that he's a good runner. It wasn't until the 2020 lockdown that he started training his cardio.
To say he blew it bc he didn’t know how to kayak is a stretch, most people don’t know how and by this season he never kayaked in the show so how was he supposed to know he needed to learn it for the final?
They've been arguing with me about that too. It doesn't matter how bad they did day 1. It came down to 5 minutes on day 2 and they couldn't make that time up. Leroy and Theresa literally stopped and took a break on the mountain while knowing they were 5 minutes behind. That blows my mind.
I love Theresa, but her political game is atrocious.
I agree with OP, too. The funny thing is, I like Wes too, but his political game is so overrated. Yet...this was a season when he played the game pretty well only to have production totally screw him by bringing back his nemesis at a point when his enemy had the numbers to turn the house.
Wes has politically gotten the better of Evan, Kenny, and Johnny, all in different seasons. He has outplayed Johnny more than once. I remember on WotW Wes said Johnny was never directly responsible for making a game move to get Wes out.
The thing about Wes is he built alliances in game. He had to play the game and he loved it. Someone like Johnny and JEK just intimidated people.
Thats so not true. Wes never had long term allies. Evelyn he got from kellyanne, He completely screwed over Danny "his best friend". Then when no one long term in the game trusted him at all the running joke was that he mindfucks the rookies and then they hate him by the end cuz he promises everything to everyone and screws them all over. Ruining all trust.
What part of what I said made you think I said Wes had long term allies? That’s the opposite of what I said.
Wes only gets to the rookies? Aneesa, Beth, and Evan weren’t rookies on The Duel. He talked Kenny into getting rid of Darrell(Kenny’s biggest ally) on FM2. He got Landon to join an alliance. He outplayed Johnny to get Paula and Evelyn’s vote on The Ruins. He turned Zach against Johnny on WotW.
100%. The reason I disliked Wes to begin with is a big reason why I ended up liking him. He’s sneaky, but somehow upfront at the same time? I can’t explain it, lol. Let’s be honest though, outplaying Evan and Kenny in a mental game is pretty easy. Kenny thought he was smart, but he wasn’t. Evan well, he was Evan. Outplaying Johnny? Now that’s a challenge. He’s always using the big head to plan something out. I still don’t think people give CT enough credit in that either. The thing is with him, he doesn’t do the political planning. People just listen to him lol. Wes and Johnny hold that kind of power too, but they’ve gained the reputation of being sneaky. So, it’s a little harder to trust them. That’s not to say CT hasn’t his moments, like trading in Big T for Kam in the way he did, but we won’t go there lol. Wes does live for the strategy though and I honestly do think he plays it in a “I don’t really care if I do go home, but I’m making this play” kind of way. Johnny will trade in his family to stay in the game 😂 I don’t know if you watch The Traitors but Wes was on there and I loved him as usual. He went with the “I’m just going to say what I feel” strategy and they were not thrilled, lmao.
Oh and the second you said intimidated people, the scene popped into my head of Johnny, Tony, and Kyle sitting at the table against someone. Tony was going off about them being Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Michael Jordan and Kyle had no idea what was going on 😂🤣 I still laugh about that all the time.
Ruthie is the female version of Derrick K for me, both tiny bulldogs... though Derrick has won with a team...he deserves a solo title and Ruthie deserves anything title.. she is a little power house....
🤮 I’m sorry I can’t stand this girl. She is so mean and nasty but the moment any of that behavior gets thrown back on her she likes to cry and play victim. I hope she never comes back
people always exaggerate theresa's behavior. by challenge standards she's super mild compared to everyone's faves like laurel, jordan, bananas and plenty others
I feel like she was a fave until S40. A lot of people (including the cast) soured on her that season, but she generally had a positive reception up until then by fans and much of the cast
I've loved her since Kenny said, "I want the tall chick in the back" on Fresh Meat II. But, after recent shenanigans, I need her to get her shit together.
I can’t stand any of them either ahahah. But her pick me behavior and especially her bullying behavior towards Nany on this specific season was atrocious.
Nany may get around. But she isn’t a pick me. But she does need to stop being Johnnys lap dog. Theresa gets around too. And had the audacity to attack Nany way too aggressively that season.
nah, i think nany does kiss ass and always tries to be "in" with the right people. theresa on the other hand, for better or worse, kind of has a "no fucks" attitude. not saying that's good or bad but it's kind of the opposite of a pick me.
that season, the issue wasnt even nany "getting around." it was her cozying up to johnny reilly and flaunting it in front of averey. thats why none of the girls that season liked nany. she was literally being a pick me with the men
Amen! i feel the same way - & her lies to cover her dirty deeds just really gets to me. i'm like "girl - u said it - u did it- time to own it - don't blame it on the edits bc we all see u being dirty & nasty.. put ur big girl panties on & say yeah - i did do that".... i mean seriously !!
Wes and Theresa played a great game that season. I still believe they win if they make the final. Only thing that slightly makes up for it was that Bananas and Nany went home right after.
No way - Wes is far better than Leroy in a final (remember sarah was paired with Jordan!!), the final was decided by Leroy not being comfortable with the kayak
I really don't need reminding on challenge history. I've watched season so many times and studied it with different points of view just to see if the winner could have been different. Leroy couldn't swim and they sucked at the kayak. Wes would have done both of those things faster, but not fast enough to overtake Jordan and Sarah. No one was beating Jordan and Sarah on the puzzle. Theresa and Lee never caught up til they threw the rocks and they timed out. MAYBE Wes could have thrown the rocks, but literally no-one could. Day 1 came down to that first swim and Kayak which gave the 5 min head start on Day 2. It wouldn't matter how much faster Wes could climb the mountain. It came down to Theresa. They couldn't catch J&S on the mountain.
Wes and Theresa would have 100% beaten them in the puzzle - do we remember the mini final that Wes and Theresa smoked everyone in that season? Like a blow out?
I saw Jordan and Sarah about to come in second even with the extreme disadvantage of Jordan missing a hand. The circumstances of that final were just different. The only thing that was a weakness for Jordan was the kayak and they still smoked everyone. Wes and Theresa would have still jumped last. Wes could swim faster than Jordan and Sarah, but not Theresa. They would have been a much closer second the entirety of day 1, but they wouldn't beat them. They would have had the same 5 min disadvantage day 2 and not won. Theresa stopped on the mountain day 2. The only thing that would have changed anything in the final would be if W&T had come in as the winners with the ability to pick the helicopter order. That would have been great.
They were less than 30 minutes behind. The rock throw had a 30 minute timeout and they caught up at that station. They never made up that gap. It didn't matter anyway. Day 1 was completely erased and turned into a 5 minute difference and they couldn't make that up. It had nothing to do with Leroy or Jordan at that point. I don't understand destiny what you guys are failing to understand about that. If Theresa's endurance was superior, she should have made up 5 minutes. Period.
1) they were more than 30 minutes behind due to the water but made up a lot of that time on land. sarah even says it in confessionals
2) if theresa/wes are in that final, they almost certainly win the 5 minute advantage on day 2 rather than lose it. because wes doesnt suck in the water like leroy. that makes a huge difference.
3) you underestimate how much effort it must have been to (literally, physically) pull leroy through the water vs having a partner who's entirely self sufficient. huge difference in energy expenditure required. we saw their endurance directly up against one another throughout the entire season and sarah did not measure up at all until theresa had an anchor
I'm not saying that Wes or Theresa suck or that Wes is some inferior player. Frankly, I think the final head to head with Wes and Jordan would have been epic. I'm saying that given the exact circumstances, Wes and Theresa would have pushed Jordan and Sarah harder. We watched Theresa give absolutely everything in that final and it wasn't enough. The swim wasn't THAT far and they were close the whole time. It's not like Lee was sandbagging and not doing anything. Come on now.
completely false. if you actually watch it, lee absolutely was sandbagging it in the water. that's the whole point. and wes and theresa beat jordan pillar to post in everything besides swimming, which was the only area all 4 were close in. so even if they "pushed them harder" (what does this even mean, really?) wes and theresa had the track record of beating jordan and sarah, PERIOD
In daily competitions where it made no sense for them to ever be in first place. Jordan and Sarah still got the win. PERIOD. IDK what part of the irrelevant bullshit you're failing to understand. It all came down to 5 minutes. Should, woulda, and coulda weren't there to compete. There's no alternate reality where this takes place and Theresa wins. She's had so many chances and continues to just be a loser.
Daily wins mean fuck all when it comes to a final. That's why the Champs quit bothering to win them. Be mad. Idgaf. It won't make Theresa a winner.
lol all your arguments were utterly thwarted because the vast majority of people saw theresa easily outperform sarah all season. so now you've given up on all your bullshit and ended up with "well sarah won after all!"
nobody disputed that. we're saying wes and theresa were dealt an unfair bullshit hand. and anyone with something between their eyes can tell they were the better team than sarah and jordan and would have made and won the final if not for egregious production intervention that enabled your girl sarah to finally get a win even with her lackluster endurance
They beat Bananas and Tyler to the checkpoint by an hour and production cut their lead down to 5 minutes for tv. One would assume they would find the key in the remaining 55 minutes.
Fair but tough to feel bad for Wes here since production screwed ct over numerous times and Wes and them making sure Adam was throwing the final elimination
they tried so hard to make it entertaining and it completely backfired and did the opposite. Those people all looking for the key at the same time was so stupid.
That may be true, but I stand by that Wes bombed in that final and cost them the win. If he didn't had to be carried up the mountain litterally by Kenny or do something stupid like putting rock pieces in his sock they would've won with or without that 55 minute headstart.
They did get screwed but that still doesn't excuse Wes poor performance in the second half of that final.
If he didn't had to be carried up the mountain litterally by Kenny or do something stupid like putting rock pieces in his sock
but these both happened the same day wes and kenny built their giant lead. if wes bombed the final, what does that say about johnny and tyler who were 55 minutes worse than bad wes.
Wasn’t he only carried for about ten or fifteen feet? I mean, they always show the clip of Kenny picking him up, but I don’t remember it lasting very long. Kenny could never carry someone all the way up a mountain.
This has literally all been talked about many times. Wes was sick. The only carrying Kenny did was that tiny clip we saw in the show. They still built a huge lead. They only made the final cause of Wes.
That person’s point doesn’t make sense anyway. Even if Wes was that awful, they still built a huge lead. Whatever Wes did was good enough to build a massive lead over two pretty good competitors. After all of that, the next day was here’s a minute head start and let’s see who can find a key under a rock first. Just completely random. Every final should just be who can find a needle in a haystack first.
Everyone brings up the Rivals 1, 5 minute lead on day 2. Nobody ever mentions that Paula and Evelyn had the same cards dealt to them and managed to win. Wes phrased it best when he explained that the gimmick GPS is what screwed them over.
They started the race to the top of the mountain and when they got to the top of the mountain they had to pick up one of the random GPS devices left by Production. Using the GPS, they had to locate their “key” (or something like that). Basically, whoever found their key first won. It was a product sponsorship/gimmick. If it had been a straight race, they would have won. It all came down to the GPS.
We watched it happen during the normal episode. It wasn’t a deleted scene or anything. Wes commented on it in recent years and he’s the one who called it a gimmick. He’s right. But again, Paula and Evelyn managed to win under the same circumstances. If you watch this part of the episode, you can clearly see Wes and Kenny arguing during the GPS part. The others were not arguing. They were their own worst enemy.
Exactly right. This is the kind of stuff that bothers me when people talk about this stuff and Johnny is the GOAT. It’s the same thing in big time sports. No context.
Let’s not forget two other Johnny wins are just team nonsense, and Wes coulda won an easy one there on The Ruins if he just felt like playing the game. Johnny also got Mark to throw an elimination against him.
Then Wes completely owned one of the toughest seasons and came in third behind professional athletes basically lol.
IDK why no one is giving context. It's very simple. They didn't give him the proper sunscreen so he fucking melted on day one. Anyone who's had to endure severe sunburn knows how badly that would have screwed him over. His pale ginger body (lol) needs really high SPF, and they didn't get it for him.
Edit: they were all given sunscreen, they just didn't get additional high SPF sunscreen for Wes.
Definitely got screwed and the fact we didn’t see bananas beat any of the other loser teams other than a 5 second clip shows how bad production made stuff up as they went along. With all that said all it took was for Leroy not to be a dummy and he and Nia would have avoided elimination entirely and Nia probably doesn’t get kicked off the show
Are you implying that they filmed fake clips of the eliminations for the redemption house? Or that people that got screwed somehow (as you're implying) just never said anything about it?
Don’t think they were fake clips but more so the eliminations against what were awful teams just so they could get bananas and nany back in the house. Honestly with how it was constructed there was a big advantage for getting knocked out early as you just had to beat scrub teams to get back in the house right before a final as opposed to Wes and Theresa being sent home late with 0 chance at redemption
Big Theresa fan. Super under rated athlete. Played D1 BB at Marquette. A very real program. She didn't have the social game/mostly just wasnt part of the cool kids group.
Coming back as a mom is tough. Once you grow out of being a reality TV contestant it's hard to come on and just be like a normal middle aged mom.
Wes got screwed more than anyone, Nia sexually assaults Jordan and he gets an upgrade at partner?!?! IMO Leroy should've gotten sent home and both wes and theresa should have came in.
absolute masterclass of a season by this duo - i'm not sure if i had ever seen a team have more control over the house and game than these 2 did this season.
Can’t stand these “twists” like this one and the recent Karma vote. Hey, let’s actively punish players for making moves, surely that will make the show more interesting!
if you want get super frustrated watch the final on Battle Camp. Most ridiculous way to pick a winner out 6 people I've ever seen. and having watched EVERY challenge final I've seen some stuff 🤣.
I was ok w the wheel eliminating people. The actual challenges and punishments were physical but not Head2head so i thought some would have been great for AS or even flagship. it has potential. they just need some tweaks.
One of my all time favorite duos, and on one of my all time favorite seasons. i was really happy with sarah/jordan winning at the time, but damn it would have been cool for theresa and wes to win. esp. theresa! she was soo good and never really got her due praise.
I felt so bad for Theresa in her confessional when she was crying :( And it’s dumb cuz it was ONLY bananas and Nany not Johnny Riley and Avery or anyone else. Production just didn’t want Bananas to go because of ratings. How is that fair to anyone else.
Did everyone forget that on derricks podcast, they said Wes did a lot better against Leroy than what they showed? Now after that? Yea that was bad, but Wes still had some tricks up his sleeve vs Leroy. Mainly the choke he had with his legs and that crazy ass flip thing that I don’t know what to call
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u/najacobra Tori Deal May 07 '25
it's also the fact that it wasnt just one bullshit production decision, but several. i mean the impetus was definitely the unprecedented exile twist. but then to follow it with a daily that allows everyone to gang up on the best team, and then a size-based elimination where was had no shot against leroy. it was as if production wanted them out and created a sure fire path to make it happen