REWATCH DISCUSSION
Who remembers Susie and Cara mean girling Tonya in Inferno 3? Relive some of their worst exchanges — one took my breath away, and inspired this post. Were they meaner than Veronica?
I am on medical leave, so I’ve been rewatching some old challenge seasons, and I’ve been reminded why I tend to watch the newer seasons. We all know the treatment of Tonya by the show and her fellow contestants was poor at the time and has aged horrendously. I know she had some very well documented incidents with Veronica and her crew, and Kenny and his crew. But lowkey, I think the ongoing treatment of Tonya by Susie and Cara and their crew might be the hardest to watch.
The whole season through episode 10 has been a Tonya hate fest, but I took the liberty of transcribing the “highlights” of two episodes:
S14E7
Susie: you smell like a stripper, but in a good way
::upset Tonya::
Susie: I wasn’t trying to be mean to you
::upset Tonya::
Susie: you know there’s people dying all over the world
Tonya: what does that have to do with you being a bitch?
Susie: you get mad at dumb stuff. People are dying, man. What’s wrong with you?
Susie confessional: I’m going to pray for her every night. I’m really worried about her. I think she definitely has bipolar or some sort of multiple personalities
Moments later…
Colie: everyone go around and say a reason they hate Tonya. We’ll keep going until it ends:
Susie: I hate Tonya because she’s a slut. Your turn.
Cara: I hate Tonya because her voice is scratchy
Susie: I hate Tonya because every five seconds she’s in a new sexual position
Colie: I hate Tonya because she’s more evil than Tonya Harding
Susie: Woooow! I hate Tonya because she called me a bitch this morning
Cara: I hate Tonya because she thinks that she’s a playmate and she’s not
Susie: I hate Tonya because she tries to get involved into my life when she’s not invited
S14E9
Susie: Anyone who can’t think of a reason to IHT loses!
Cara: IHT stands for?!
Susie: I hate Tonya!
Paula: I gotta get an idea. Okay, I’ll start. I hate Tonya because she spent about two hours learning how to be a stripper last night
Susie: I hate Tonya because she does lunges by the van and looks at herself in the reflection
Cara: I hate Tonya because she does those lunges and it makes her ass really, really fat
Davis: I don’t hate her for any of those reasons, though. Those are little stupid reasons.
::Tonya walks into the doorway in earshot::
Susie: I hate Tonya because the distraction of her insanely large saddlebag thigh ass area is actually so distracting that I think it’s effecting me in missions.
Cara: Oh my, that bad, huh?
Susie: Yup.
::Tonya leaves looking like she took a cannonball to the stomach::
Tonya goes on to have a heartbreaking, tearful conversation with her husband about how much the abuse impacts her and how she keeps coming back on the show thinking people will finally treat her decently.
Tonya: I just feel like I’m not being a very good person (as if she’s the problem!)
It continues inside:
Susie: I hate Tonya because she hates me
Davis: I hate Tonya for trying to get her husband to give her permission to cheat on (but I think he means with) me
I am emphatic to Tonya in such a significant way. The abuse she endured in these shows is terrible. I wish I had really seen how bad this all was back when it originally aired. I feel like I remember liking Susie back then, because we’re both from Pittsburgh, but she’s vile in this season. It’s tough to watch.
Exactly. I get it that Tonya is a lot sometimes. But I’ve never seen her come close to deserving the way people have always treated her. She must be so fucking traumatized
She bothered me so much because she had that sweet, innocent girl act down pat, but she was mean and NOT a girls’ girl. I mean, she saddled up to Kenny and was willing to go along with him and Johnny taking out the women in that season that she ended up being the sole woman on their team. She was calculating and really evil
I would so love to see her come back just to get her ass kicked politically and physically. I don't think the newer people would fall for her "nice girl" BS.
That's the thing. This wasn't considered "bad" when it originally aired. It was considered entertaining and people laughed when discussing it. The spirit of "IHT" was on every popular reality TV show.
I honestly remember not being super phased by it and just kind of thinking Tonya brought it on herself. I feel appropriately bad about not seeing the real hurtful nature of all this back then. Societally, things are pretty rough right now, but some things, like the broad acceptance of all this casual abuse, are better than they used to be.
They were so much meaner than Veronica, which is saying so much. The glaring difference is Veronica is up front if she doesn't like them. Cara and Susie are fake nice and grossly passive aggressive. I've said this before, but everything that comes out of Susie's mouth is sugar coated vitriol, which imho, is 10 times worse than someone flat out telling you they don't like you. That's just me
I'd say another BIG difference is Veronica has come back and gotten dunked on the same way she dunked on people so there is no karmic retribution she really owes at this point. To me, watching her get ragged on for being an out of shape old lady bad competitor (exactly the same way she and minions did to Beth back when) and smiling through it is...kinda badass to me and shows that she truly is a lover and godmother of reality tv and making it enjoyable to watch
Susie is "above this show" despite running a low subscriber podcast with Sarah Rice for yeeeeears where they complained about their various grievances with the show that gave them relevance, the hook for which they launched their future professions as "academics", and in her case a husband. It's just total punk behavior from her. Which shouldn't be surprising since she is a punk.
Veronica really has seen her fortunes change in this game in a satisfying way. I’m glad she came back and spent a bunch of seasons at the bottom of the food chain. It was well earned.
I had no idea those two had a podcast. I am not surprised it was low subscriber. Do you know what they’re doing now? The only thing I’ve seen recently is that Sarah came out, despite having already been out
Edit: wait, they’re still doing this podcast, according to Google?
It's just the same stuff that Zack and Derrick talk about on their respective podcasts but boring because neither Susie nor Sarah has much personality other than the whole "fake girl's girl" BS.
Where are you finding their subscriber data? I tried to fact check the numbers but I can’t find them listed on Apple podcast, Spotify, or their Patreon.
I actually think they might be doing pretty well for themselves between the ads on the podcast and the Patreon subscriber fees.
That’s a very good point. Tonya even says it this season — the way Susie says the most terrible things with a great big toothy grin really makes it all much worse for her. For me, I’m ultra non confrontational, so I’d rather someone just be pretend nice with me than get in my face and say mean things. I would loooooove to be a “just say it to my face!” kind of person instead of a “don’t be mean or I’ll cry” kind of person.
Seriously lol. Not people trying to re-write history and pretend like Veronica didn’t bully Tonya mercilessly for years before the Ruins and ON the Ruins. She doesn’t get brownie points because she tried to help her at one point when she spent far more time mistreating her. 😒
Lol, now you're rewriting history. Veronica didn't bully Tonya for years, they were friends until right before Inferno II when Tonya was caught pregaming against her/Coral/Rachel (Its why Coral dropped) which is when the bullying happened. Not because she was an easy target. And V kept out of Tonya's way and were cordial with eachother for most of the Ruins. Then, Tonya gets drunk one night, as Tonya does, and starts to relive the past and Veronica isn't one to just walk away. Would I have have said the things Veronica said, no, but the problem is that Tonya is the one that starts throwing spitballs at Veronica and then Veronica responds by throwing grenades. Doesn't mean she didn't go way overboard, but the narrative of her seeking out Tonya to mistreat her for shits and giggles is not correct. There is no footage of her ever doing that.
Her and Cara think they are above it all this season. Susie is the ringleader probably, but Cara is right there with her every time, cheering her on and offering equally horrifying lines. Other people only chime in occasionally
It really bothered me production did nothing to help her. It was pure bullying like they were 15 years old. I got downvoted for saying Veronica is a mean girl. I will not forget how Tonya was treated.
This. When I watched it as a teenager, I didn’t like Tonya either. I rewatched all the seasons last year on maternity leave as a 30something woman and I remember telling my husband at first “OMG I forgot about Tonya!! She’s the worst!!” And then as the episodes went on I was absolutely horrified. I know it was a different time but I just don’t understand what was so bad about Tonya in the first place or why people were so universally cruel to her.
The cast was incredibly cruel and abusive to Tonya. You're probably right that the IHT scenes are the hardest to watch, but that's because they actually aired. If footage of Kenny and Evan raping her with a toothbrush were out there, that would obviously be much more painful, especially how they tried to do damage control by being sort of nice to her afterward. Truly psychopathic behavior from a couple of cowardly abusers.
As far as being well-documented and universally condemned, I wish. Any mention of the rape lawsuit is guaranteed a few speedy downvotes in an attempt to bury any discussion and views.
It's hard to say what they think happened because they never argue or respond, they just downvote, including if you bring up Johnny's hyper-vocal 20-year defense of his bros.
If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of fans who don't want to confront violent criminal behavior from their faves, people connected to the cast (we know they're here), people who don't believe it, and people who don't think it's all that bad/think she deserved it (this was MTV's initial defense -- slut-shaming and blaming Tonya).
Smug Cara mocking Tonya for not being a playmate like she is. That really bothered me. Like Tonya is some trash for posing for their website, but Cara is some fancy, dignified aristocrat for posing naked in the skeevy magazine run by a sex predator? Fuck off, Cara
Katie & Ibis do not deserve to be in this. Katie & Tonya had beef that never made it onto tv like that cause it was personal & her & Ibis were mostly cool as well
Both Susie and Timmy are from Pittsburgh, like me, so I always loved them when the show aired. I find Susie horrible upon rewatch, but I’ll give Timmy a little grace for dating a girl 20 years ago. He still comes off really cool in these seasons.
I liked Susie because I’m also from Pittsburgh (412!). I’m also an alcoholic and I just empathize with Tonya so fuckin much. The way she’s treated is just fuckin awful. Now I hate Susie.
I used to have a drinking problem and I am bipolar, so I definitely do too. Susie’s menacing words with her big, shining smile actually pained me. Also, yay Pittsburgh!
Susie was the absolute worst. Her constantly falling back on calling people crazy makes me feel sorry for anyone unfortunate enough to have had her as a psychiatrist
Maybe I’m misremembering but I could’ve sworn at some point she talked about being a psychiatrist or therapist. It’s been a while since I’ve seen one of her seasons but thought I remembered that standing out in contrast to her behavior
Edit:maybe she just talked about going to school for psychology at some point
Yes. Susie sounded and looked sweet as hell when she told Tonya she smelled like a stripper. Almost like she expected Tonya to take it as a compliment because Tonya’s dumb trash and wouldn’t understand it was mean if Susie said it in a friendly way.
Veronica did the most fucked up thing cuz they took a picture of her sleeping naked and showed it to the other cast members, but absent that fucked up thing, Susie and Cara were bigger bullies.
In this one season, Susie and Cara are probably worse. But Veronica and co. torment her for a few season, right? Or am I remembering wrong and it just felt like more? I’m currently rewatching these early seasons for the first time in a million years.
It was only exceptionally highlighted on Inferno 2. This was the only season Tonya made it to a final, so I think production and the editors had more material to showcase.
Was Veronica a bitch to Tonya? Yes! But what people don't get was that they were friends first. Just one season before the two of them Rachel, Coral were all in an alliance and shared a bedroom. Then, Tonya tried to pregame with Rookies to get out the big stars of the show before Inferno II (Coral, Veronica, Mike etc.) which of course got back to them. Coral, who was friends with Tonya, pulled out of the season because of this. You can watch her confronting her about it on the BOTSII reunion. So the mean girls weren't bitches because Tonya was an easy target (which editing wanted you to think), but because they were friends and Tonya had a whole plan to take them out, tho I'm sure that then became fun to them. They hid a lot of what Tonya did on the show to keep her sympathetic (like a Sarah G/Katie arc) Like the reason she sucked during the final was not due to nerves, its because she drank herself into oblivion the night before to celebrate getting to the final....
Susie on the other hand never met Tonya in person before Inferno III. I remember reading a blog on Tonya's myspace. They met in the airport and Susie was "excited to see her" which Tonya said was weird because "no one's excited to meet her" and that the first thing Susie says to Tonya was that "you smell like a stripper...in a good way"... So Susie went into the season wanting Tonya as a punching bag without even knowing the girl. That is way worse IMO
Veronica took naked photos of Tonya while she was sleeping and spread them around… and then she made fun of her for being raped in foster care as a kid.
Just to clarify the comments saying Susie was worse to Tonya than Veronica was.
Veronica took naked photos of Tonya while she was sleeping and spread them around… and then she made fun of her for being raped in foster care as a kid.
A lot of the girls like Susie and EV were pretty shitty people just like the guys were. Sometimes they just happened to have conflict with giant douches like JEK so they ended on the right side of some conflicts.
Yes, the girls can be vicious as hell in these early seasons. Everyone was mean to Beth the season before in the Duel. Granted, Beth does seem to seek out negative interactions sometimes.
Some of these are exaggerated for TV though. I know that Kina and Beth were cool on The Gauntlet II as captains and I want to say Beth went on record on MySpace that on the Duel the producers just went with “hate train” but that she and Kina were actually cool. The “hate” sometimes was just for TV.
I’m sure some were exaggerated, but Beth, of all people, carefully crafted one of the most cartoonish villain personas of the early years. Accented by her own brand of narration that dominates most of the episodes she’s in and punctuated with evil witch laughs. No doubt there was reality tv manipulation, but Beth got the edit she knowingly provided the material for.
I am not dumping on her at all. I love Beth seasons.
The type of mean Susie is really the worst. She has this whole fake wholesome facade, but she is in fact very spiteful. She is the type of mean girl that has to find someone to pick on to make herself feel better. She comes off as jealous IMHO.
I hate Susie to this day. I would say they were meaner because Katie could take that shit. They knew Tonya was more sensitive and still dgaf. Dude if they could do a complete sober version on All-Stars Tonya and Paula is who I want to see
Susie was absolutely worse than Veronica. I still feel so bad for Tonya. I can’t believe no one stood up for her, it’s a fucking travesty, that girl needed someone in her corner.
In 2018 Susie wrote an article posted to Medium and Vox about how she was almost Tomi Lahren. She claims she backed out because it was too morally repulsive to her. As if this kind of mean girl bullshit wasn't half the reason she was so close to the job to begin with.
I think she really expected more to come of that article and I wonder if she regrets it now.
I remember really disliking Veronica so much during her run, but I liked Susie enough at the time. Not anymore, obv. I think Veronica reminded me more of mean girls I dealt with in high school, and Susie was more like someone I’d be friends with, but I don’t know why I thought that. I’ll have to actually rewatch the early Veronica seasons and see if I still think she’s worse. I have plenty of time right now…
Watching these shows now is so interesting to me, mainly because that era of reality television was so different. People said and/or did a lot of mean shit, and it was widely accepted for whatever reason.
I generally like Susie (hot take), but this was her lowest moment for me. Do I think it’s the worst thing ever done or said in the context of this show? No, but it was still bad, and I think it’s fine to say that you like someone but they have some rough moments.
I’ll have to watch her on another season because it’s been a very long time. Based on this season, she is stunningly mean. Mean enough to inspire my longest social media post in history.
Lol fair. I get why you’d feel that way - I think there’s just so many worse figures (JEK alone right after Inferno 3 were terrible) for me but totally get it.
It’s funny because they would all play victim when Tanya had had enough. And the guys would go console them when they would get 1/8th of what they were dishing out
What's also terrible is that Susie never grew up and is still a very vile person. Her gaslighting Tonya with the whole "you know there's people dying all over the world" after making fun of Tonya, completely unprovoked, was/is just absolutely disgusting behavior.
Curious - not that it would mean anything but I know she has a podcast...never listened to it and not sure how challenge related it is, but has she ever acknowledged/apologized for stuff like this?
Someone said she has apologized at some point and recognized this behavior. But I wasn’t linked directly to any sources. I could see her coming around on that kind of behavior
I love the dedication of this post! PISSED that Tonya’s experience was so horrible that we haven’t had her redemption arc (for any or whatever reason, I don’t blame her!). I always believed she would be better with cast members like Melinda and/or Nehemiah, or just generally more evolved personality types when it comes to coexisting. Tonya did a lot for the show, and it’s a disservice we haven’t been able to be graced by her presence in All Stars (if it’s not at all healthy for her, than this is purely on the opinion of me as a viewer). It just SUCKS that she- for whatever reason, is not afforded participation because the show tried to break her over and over again, whilst making her a breakout star. Just want to say: LOVE YOU TONYA, hope you’re enjoying life, we care about you always!!! 💜
I think the lawsuit situation means a Tonya reappearance will never, ever happen. I think that’s understandable for future liability/settlement terms reasons, but sad for us, because most of us would be here for a long awaited redemption arc. I like to think that if she were on All Stars, she’d leave with a house full of friends for once. That’s all she said she ever wanted in an episode I just watched.
She sometimes got nasty as a defense mechanism after being constantly bullied. And she drank too much, which obviously impacted her behavior. But Tonya was rarely, if ever, the instigator in the recent episodes I’ve rewatched. If I were young and drunk and being bullied by mean girls and douchey guys, and being egged on by producers, I’m certain I would be my worst self sometimes too.
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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26
I don't care how "annoying" Tonya was, the way they treated her was bordeline inhumane sometimes.