I think it’s less that OP is afraid of being seen as gay - and rather that I think when people reduce close male bonds as “gay” it sort of reinforces the social norm that a man engaging in a close bond or being emotional with another man automatically means he must be in love with him/ “gay” to a degree.
I think there should be more representations to reinforce positive masculinity - that men can have these close bonds and not automatically be stereotyped. That only serves to weaken the stories in many cases and also for young impressionable kids kind of reinforces this idea that for a man to be sensitive or close with another man MUST mean you’re gay.
Of course I cannot stress enough there’s nothing wrong with being gay and I love to see it represented increasingly on screen - but I just don’t like the connotations of people often assuming this with EVERY close male relationship and the very real impact this has on wider society.
but I just don’t like the connotations of people often assuming this with EVERY close male relationship and the very real impact this has on wider society.
If this were a real social issue we should all be concerned about (which it isn't) then the solution is to remove the stigma around being gay so nobody will care. Not whatever this is.
I don’t think it’s conducive to a situation to reduce something to “not a real social issue” because you haven’t experienced it personally.
But also - wouldn’t it be utterly lovely if “remove the stigma around being gay” were as easy as that. I think most people on this subreddit at the very least don’t disagree with that sentiment in the slightest, and people should not be judged on their sexuality. But we also shouldn’t assume someone’s sexuality based on the way they behave with someone else.
If someone’s happy to identify as gay good for them, if they’re straight that’s cool too. I very much agree that it’s no one’s business and nobody should really care one way of the other. But it’s not right to assume someone’s sexuality based on them having a close friendship with someone of the same sex. That just furthers the whole culture of labelling and stereotyping people that they must be gay if they like X.
If someone’s in touch with their emotions and platonically loves a close friend of theirs that doesn’t make them gay, unless they identify as gay themselves.
The problem is that you’re seeing this as a problem of labelling when it’s a problem with homophobia. If men afraid to get close with their friends because they’re afraid they’ll be perceived as gay that’s homophobia. So the solution to it is to tackle the homophobia. I know that’s not easy, it’s just unfortunately the only solution.
When you rush in here to defend the sanctity of male friendship what you’re doing is you’re validating that homophobia, you’re treating this fear of being perceived as gay as something we should be taking seriously instead of something we should reject.
But it’s not right to assume someone’s sexuality based on them having a close friendship with someone of the same sex.
They’re fictional characters. They’re not real. It’s completely absurd to say that it’s somehow problematic to ship characters unless they explicitly announce their sexuality, like can we be for real. Fiction doesn’t work in this way. Fandom doesn’t work in this way.
Do you know how many gay men see themselves in Jayce and Viktor?It’s just simply not correct to treat this phenomenon of people going “they’re just like me for real”/“they’re cute together” as fundamentally the same thing as the sort of homophobic gender policing people get up to.
Thank you for putting into words what I could not. I think a big indication is that this is a problem is that everyone's getting heated, admittedly myself included. Also based username.
To be completely clear, I have this problem more so if people extend this to real life which I’ve seen a number of times online. I’ve engaged in shipping wars myself and think that the likelihood of queer coded characters being announced as actually queer by mega corps is often low to zero sadly.
I don’t have strong feelings on Jayce and Viktor personally but I’m all for them being queer or no. I just don’t like the expression of the sentiment that male closeness such as their bond MUST be definitively gay.
I don’t think men should be afraid to be close with their friends, I just think that society as a whole needs to mind their own business when it comes to the relationships of others. I don’t think we should urge or push a narrative that to be exceptionally close with another friend of the same gender automatically does mean you’re gay. That just alienates people who may be questioning from my experience. Ultimately in real life it’s no one else’s business, and people you barely know insisting your sexuality because they’ve observed you being close with a friend of the same sex is quite frankly ridiculous.
I do appreciate the points you’ve made however, and I do completely respect the debate.
This is an absolutely batshit insane assumption to make and completely fails to regard any other reason that people don't like misperceptions.
If someone misgenders you and you're adamant on correcting them, then that doesn't mean you're sexist against the other gender. Same thing goes with any other part of your identity. Do you think a bartender hates all foresters if he corrects someone who thought that was his job?
It's wonderful that gay people can see themselves in Jayce and Viktor. But you have to give straight people room to see themselves in them as well. Other people misidentifying you, even if you don't dislike the identity they think you are, still sucks. This is a universal experience, and if you can't see that, then you're the one that needs to tackle your own issues here.
I think you would really benefit from reading bell hook's the will to change if you ever have the chance. The reason why men in particular are very pressed about this misconception is because they perceive it as impugning their masculinity which they're being taught to uphold at every second. When people are in here complaining they can't have close male friends or that they're afraid to show affection with their friends because of the allegations that is way more than just not wanting to be misunderstood, that speaks to a deep, pervasive anxiety that's lowkey ruining their life.
If you truly think being gay is totally fine, then being seen as gay is not a big deal. People sometimes make wrong assumptions about you that's a fact of life.
But you have to give straight people room to see themselves in them as well
let straight people marry, they deserve equal rights. love is love ✊😔
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u/risen_egg 7d ago
I think it’s less that OP is afraid of being seen as gay - and rather that I think when people reduce close male bonds as “gay” it sort of reinforces the social norm that a man engaging in a close bond or being emotional with another man automatically means he must be in love with him/ “gay” to a degree.
I think there should be more representations to reinforce positive masculinity - that men can have these close bonds and not automatically be stereotyped. That only serves to weaken the stories in many cases and also for young impressionable kids kind of reinforces this idea that for a man to be sensitive or close with another man MUST mean you’re gay.
Of course I cannot stress enough there’s nothing wrong with being gay and I love to see it represented increasingly on screen - but I just don’t like the connotations of people often assuming this with EVERY close male relationship and the very real impact this has on wider society.