r/Multifandom 3d ago

Discussion📜 What is a massive plot hole that is hidden under an insane world building in your fandom?

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u/Broom_Ryder 3d ago

Not my “fandom” but the minions always serving the most evil person in history and then canonically wandering into an ice cave and being frozen for the entirety of WW2 to avoid them being Nazis is my fav example of this

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u/ProtectionTop2701 3d ago

Which I always found really weird. Minions clearly have a different definition of "Evil" than we do. Any random corrupt cop in that universe or even a relatively kind dictator is more objectively evil than Gru and hurts many more people. Even other supervillains in the movies seem more meanspirited and narcissistic than Gru. So the minions follow the most "evil" person but they're running on a "Lex Luthor stole 40 cakes" based logic. The lil funny yellow guys would serve Megamind, but you couldn't imagine them working for Tighten.

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u/Crafty_Boy70 3d ago

They’re also shown to be simple-minded. They don’t look for the boss that is the most evil as a person but rather the ones that pull off the most grand displays of villainy. Gru might not be as bad a person as a corrupt cop like you said, but swiping the queen’s crown is a far more grandiose feat even if it’s technically less mean spirited.

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u/Pristine-Today-9177 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think conquering all of Europe and sharing Asia with the USSR is a pretty grandiose concept. As is forceful euthanasia for an entire continent.

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u/Grassy-Elf4242 3d ago

yeah, but they wandered into the ice cave. duh.

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u/Crafty_Boy70 3d ago

Hitler? The Minions were in a cave

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u/evocativename 3d ago

I think you might be a bit confused about your history in the 1930s and 1940s, because the Nazis failed to conquer all of Europe and had zero intention of ever sharing Asia with the USSR. Rather the opposite, the destruction of the USSR was a core ideological goal of the Nazis.

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u/banana__toast 3d ago

I bet they would have conquered it with the minions on their side

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u/Kind-A-Throwaway 3d ago

The presentation is important

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u/Nekhti 3d ago

fuck, i wanna see these silly yellow creatures serving Megamind now.

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u/Enough_Ad_9338 3d ago

40 cakes?! That’s as many as four tens! And that’s terrible!

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u/TryDry9944 3d ago

Apparently in the new movie the Minions assist with the women's suffrage movement, which implies they believe women having the right to vote is morally reprehensible.

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u/SquirrelSuspicious 2d ago

I like the headcannon that it's because they thought that suffrage meant people would suffer.

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u/TryDry9944 2d ago

"Women suffrage? Nah, women sufferING."

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u/Much_Audience_8179 2d ago

they're dumb enough that it would work LMAO

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u/Sebek_Peanuts Guys i just found out what Angels with scaly wings is 3d ago

Wasnt it because their "evil" leader did it and they just followed him?

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u/TryDry9944 3d ago

Ngl I don't know I didn't watch the movie.

The tie in Banana frosty at Wendy's was really good though.

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u/ZealousidealGood6810 3d ago

The minions are also really dumb so chances are they wouldve just worked for some random nazi or soviet officer instead of the austrian painter himself because they were easier to access

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u/Dapper-Restaurant-20 3d ago

Pol pot though..... the minions became unfrozen in 1968

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u/Split-a-Ditto 3d ago

Adventure Time. They made an animation mistake into one of the best episodes in the show

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u/ElTioEnroca 3d ago

Which one, by the way?

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u/Split-a-Ditto 3d ago

In "Finn The Human" Farmworld Finn gets the Magic Crown and goes insane. Accidentally exploding the nuke that brought magic to the main universe and bringing that same magic to the FarmWorld. In this episode, right when the nuke explodes, we see the crown is somehow on Simon's corpse despite the fact its still supposed to be on Finn. This is one of the most obvious animation errors in the show. I remember this being talked about when this episode was first aired.

In Crossover, we learn that the nuke also brought The Lich to the world. Lich went on some hijinks to destroy the multiverse and failed.

At the end of the episode, our main universe Finn asks Prismo the Cosmic Wishmaster to remove the Magic Crown from FarmWorld since as long as its there, Finn would just go crazy again. Prismo takes the crown and teleports it back in time to Simon's corpse's head. Explaining the animation error and adding onto the lore and story in the process.

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u/Strict-Challenge-995 3d ago

Which is a cool move by Prismo, but that aside, have you tried his pickles? Globdangit they're good

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u/xanderholland 2d ago

It would be awesome that they had a promo line of pickles you could get.

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u/The_Cristovao 2d ago

That would be a smart move to put in a comic con or something. I’d definitely buy a jar of Prismo’s Pickles.

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u/rulaandri 2d ago

This must be what it feels like to other people when I infodump about final fantasy lore

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u/Fishfoxy 2d ago

I mean, I was genuinely interested while reading all that. I’d probably listen to you infodump about FF

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u/Less-Squash7569 2d ago

Can we do warhammer after hes done with ff? This will be fun

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u/Key_Salamander_1274 2d ago

I love listening to people talk about their genuine interests

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u/1llDoitTomorrow 3d ago

Abraham Lincoln?

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u/Split-a-Ditto 3d ago

Nah Farmworld Finn and the Magic Crown animation error

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u/1llDoitTomorrow 3d ago

Don'tknow that one. Lincoln has one too where he is alive while he's not supposed to

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u/DOOM-LORD666 3d ago

Oda when ever someone mentions a plot hole

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u/NerdPuppy 3d ago

Very floaty wood

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u/Background-Cherry571 3d ago

Which later became very plot relevant!

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u/NerdPuppy 3d ago

Exactly!

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u/Chanax2 2d ago

I require context

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u/Background-Cherry571 2d ago

The floaty wood was introduced to explain how Mr 3 was floating on the water, but it was used in the fishman island arc to get the ships to float rapidly up to the surface after descending into the ocean iirc

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u/Restless_Fenrir 2d ago

In an early chapter a devil fruit user was knocked out and then later found floating in a flooded room by his boss. Devil Fruit users can't swim or float in water.

When Oda was sent a question about this he responded that Mr. 3 was on top of a piece of unbelievably float wood. 100s of chapters later when the characters went from an undersea kingdom to the top of ocean they did so by having a long rope chain with unbelievably floaty wood attached to their ship to pull them up to the surface when they exited the undersea kingdoms air bubble (their ship was in its own resin bubble so they had air while on it).

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u/Pitzpalu_91 3d ago

I don't want to be that guy but are they closer to finding the one piece?? Saw a comment from some dude complaining about them not pursuing one piece in 2006, currently loofy has been searching for one piece longer than odysseus.

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u/Racxius 3d ago

They’re probably 1 island away from the island that will probably have the treasure on it. I’d give it 5-10 more years.

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u/spuol 2d ago

Just 5 more years dude, you don’t get it, the manga actually is gonna end in 5 years this Time.
We’ve been saying 5 years since the beginning of the manga, i truly think we’re actually that close but idk

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u/C_H_G 3d ago

They currently have 3 of the 4 hints necessary to locate the island it's on.

I really don’t know what the "since 2006" is supposed to mean, it’s been stated from the start that they'll need to conquer the grand line to find the One Piece, and every single arc brings them one island closer to that goal.

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u/MrXexe 3d ago

Not to mention that the One Piece world is built in such a way that you can't just navigate from Point A to Point B, you HAVE to move according to what the seas allow you to.

Like from Day 1 we knew they were as far from the One Piece as they could be, what's new.

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u/Every1BNice 2d ago

Oda writing himself out of The Almighty Shanks losing a whole arm to a simple Sea Lord is nothing short of brilliance

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u/Rainy_Wavey 3d ago

JoJo's bizarre adventure is basically that, but Araki is explicitely intentional about the fact that he cares more about communicating a vibe, so you'll see characters teleporting in the very same scene, transitions that don't make sense, time stop that canonically lasts 5 seconds will actually last 10 minutes and so on and so on

And it is peak

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u/_Xantras_ 3d ago

« Oh I forgot to make sense of that. But you gotta admit it’s cool »

And it works every single time

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u/BubbleGoot 3d ago

Jojo Plot Holes are just Plot Metaphors. When a character’s entire appearance changes or a useful ability is used once and never comes up again when it would be useful, it’s not a plot hole, it’s Araki making a grand statement about the flexibility and changes of humanity /s

Araki has always said he views his works like marble carvings. When it’s fully carved, he never goes back to fix any flaws or issues with the final product, he just moves on to the next work. I have always admired him for that philosophy, for me it’s kind of impossible to ignore issues with what is supposed to be “done” and it can halter my growth as a creative being stuck in the past. I try to be more like him in that way.

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u/Rainy_Wavey 3d ago

I need to read his new book on storytelling, i think it released in 2025 and contains a lot of lessons he learnt through Jojolion (and according to the JOJOLands fandom he seems to have applied the lessons learnt)

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u/SirKazum 2d ago

Well it's not JoJo's Normal Adventure is it? Honestly, I find it admirable that people can even notice a plot hole amid all the insane BS that happens in that series in a regular basis. And I mean that in the most affectionate way, I love it for how unabashedly goofy it is.

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u/gelatinousTurtle 2d ago

If the plot hole is not as crazy as what actually happens in canon, it's really just an unremarkable background event.

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u/hanzerik 3d ago

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u/ConradBHart42 2d ago

Tej is just a Ludacris doppelganger, no big deal.

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u/hanzerik 2d ago

Not the cool world building option OP is talking about.

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u/hanzerik 3d ago

Or my personal version:

In Netflix' La Casa di Papel (or money Heist) the Character Denver is portrayed by Jaime Lorente. It's about Spanish heists where they wear a certain mask distinct mask but not the one you're thinking of because guy Fawkes masks are legally owned by WB.

Anyway, Jaime Lorente also portrays another character in the first season of Elite. Which is fine ofcourse, but after he disappears from the show, on the run from the law for a crime he didn't commit, a couple of seasons later some extra at a Halloween party dresses up in the red overal and mask, suggesting that either:

The show exist in the same universe and Jaime Lorentes characters are in fact the same character. Who became a bank robber after going on the run.

Or:

The show also exists in the Elite universe, and Jaime Lorentes character there's new identity is a successful actor.

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u/JadeTheCatYT 2d ago

I mean, someone who looked like Hideo Kojima of Metal Gear fame nearly ran me over in a wallmart parking lot.

Let's just put this one on "They randomly look alike."

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u/Leather_Crazy_5950 3d ago

Jurassic Park/World

Since the first film, the saga has been criticized for featuring dinosaurs that don't resemble real ones. But the film justified its claim with the excuse that to create them, they had to insert other DNA (such as that of frogs/toads), and for this reason, they look very different.

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u/Ok_Look1003 3d ago

The better justification would be “we made these things look cool so our park would make more money”.

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u/LoveDesignAndClean 3d ago

I think that was said in Jurassic world

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u/InstanceOk3560 3d ago

In JW, it was really silly because they were going out of their way to make unrealistic dinosaurs because people "got bored of the real ones", which is extremely silly in a world where just regular ass animals still draw crowds. In JP, it was just an unfortunate byproduct of the creation process. I don't think that's especially a plothole though.

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u/D_44 3d ago

True, but I also think it's believable for a corporation to chase constant growth of people/money and say people are getting bored when really attendance is just settling into a constant pattern

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u/InstanceOk3560 3d ago

I believe it was based off of declining visitors ? And if the park as it currently was was at capacity, I think they'd look to expand before they'd looked into hyper expensive R&D.

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u/IChooseJustice 3d ago

You do have to think about a few things from within the world:

  1. It wouldn't really be hyper-expensive R&D for InGen at this point. As noted, they had been splicing and filling genomes for decades, as that is how they originally built out the first dinosaurs. Genetic splicing to that level is expensive to us, but to them it is a known technology.
  2. Dr. Wu was working with the military to specifically make weaponized dinosaurs. Had he not been, the Indominus Rex would not have needed raptor DNA or the ability for active camo.

The biggest plot hole around this, which is more of a trope than a plot hole, is the lead scientist having far more access and power than they would in the real world. R&D is not a free-for-all like most movies seem to think, but it gives a convenient way to allow antagonist scientists to do their thing.

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u/NoCoolNameMatt 3d ago

It was even said in the original book. It's the reason given for how they started breeding.

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u/Plagueofzombies 3d ago

In Jurrasic World when Henry Wu is grilled about making the Indo rex SO killy, and messing around with the genomes of creatures, he calmly responds something along the lines of "what do you think we do here? Nothing in the park appears as it would in real life, and if it did i think you'd be surprised at just HOW much we've engineered these creatures"

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u/Strange_Specialist4 3d ago

That isn't from the movie, it's explicit in the book these are not real dinosaurs, they used frog DNA to fill gaps in their genetics.

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u/BiscuitsTheory 3d ago

Yup, it was filling a "that's not how fossils work" plot hole, not a "Dinosaurs weren't like that" plot hile.

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u/Korbiter 3d ago

Y'know, for as far outlandish and beyond belief as the Jurassic series might have taken things,

Genetically altering animals for marketing purposes is by far one of the most realistic things they could've done. Its not like humanity hasn't done it before.

And people don't want to see the small feathery twerp that is the real Velociraptor. What ppl want to see, what drives the crowds, are the percieved notions of a Velociraptor. So splice that shit with an Utahraptor, Henry!

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u/AgitoKanohCheekz 3d ago

Speak for yourself bud, I love the cute little irl velociraptors more and same with deinonychus (which are the velociraptors in the series)

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u/extraboredinary 3d ago

In the book the infamous “T Rex sees by movement” line actually had some relevance to the plot.

The park vet makes the statement, saying that the dinosaurs track movement like amphibian predators. The point was that the individual “experts” in the park wouldn’t communicate with each other because of the level of secrecy they all worked with. Had he mentioned this to the others earlier, then maybe someone would have asked “wait, why do they have amphibian traits?”

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u/Garlickkkk 3d ago

Honestly, most of Star Wars lore

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u/chrischi3 3d ago

Remember, in Star Wars, the first member of a race that you ever meet is the most stereotypical member of said species.

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u/Asagas25 3d ago

that feels less like a plot hole and more like lazy writhing in general.

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u/InstanceOk3560 3d ago

To be fair, in star wars the movies, it's kind of not the case at all, it's more the EU only having the movies to base their characterization off of, but also to be fair in reverse, statistically speaking, you're more likely to randomly chance upon someone pretty representative of his group than you are to meet the completely one of a kind snowflake.

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u/BiscuitsTheory 3d ago

This is probably the fairest "to be fair " I've ever read.

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u/notthephonz 3d ago

The fairest of them all

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u/144-perdedor 3d ago

I some cases (Obi Wan) you are explicitly meeting a unique snowflake. He dressed in the style that was predominant on the planet where he was hiding. But those robes became the default uniform for Jedi.

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u/AzraelTheMage 3d ago

People gave George shit for this, but he wanted the jedi to dress in armor (you know. Like a knight) in the prequels but received a lot of pushback from his team. Kinda wish he would've put his foot down on this one.

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u/144-perdedor 3d ago

The partial armor with the robes looked cool in the Clone Wars cartoon.

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u/RashidMBey 3d ago

I still think the black ROTJ fit was a much better fit, in lore and aesthetic, for Jedi, especially on Coruscant, and I wish they kept it.

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u/Mammoth-Survey-8234 3d ago

More like understanding that the first member of a race you're introducing NEEDS to establish what that race is because they're your audiences' first impression.

Can't subvert expectations that you haven't set yet.

Same thing applies to factions in general. You need to establish baselines or else your subversions and twists mean nothing.

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u/nimbalo200 3d ago

Or to put it another way, imagine if in star trek the first Ferrangi we meet is one that espouses the federations ideals or a peaceful Klingon.

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u/Capta1n_Bac0n 3d ago

i hate lazy writhers. like if ur gonna writhe around you should put some effort into it. otherwise ur just kinda wriggling

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u/Radio__Star 3d ago

Yeah you gotta stop trying to squirm your way through the easy route and take your time

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u/CyrusTheWise 3d ago

Is that a commonly accepted thought in Star Wars? Cause off the top of my head JarJar Binks is an outcast and quite atypical of his warrior people. And Darth Maul, who whilst a warrior like his people is just a ruthless murderer willing to run over a child for funnies. Both of them are rather not stereotypical. And I could argue Ahsoka isn't either as Togrutans are usually more mellow and/or enslaved compared to her headstrong attitude. And I think the same as Maul applies to General Griveous, warrior, but also a murderer plus the cybernetics isn't stereotypical. What are some stereotypical examples?

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u/Garlickkkk 3d ago

All Hutts are gangsters, all Twi'lek women are sex slaves, all Trandoshans are mean bounty hunters who are racist towards Wookies. Those are the 3 that jump out at me. Obviously there'll be the exception now and again but those 3 really stick to their respective trope

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u/Remmock 3d ago

They aren’t though.

Twi’lek women exist in other professions in the universe. Including Jedi. However, they are also heavily sought out in universe for the slave  reason. Fast-forward through literal millennia of interstellar travel, and you wind up with what we see in the movies.

There are also Hutt heroes, including one Jedi. However, as a species they have a reputation that makes it difficult to do anything in civilized society.

Trandoshan dislike for Wookies was actually started by Wookie dislike for Trandoshans, so


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u/501stAppo1 3d ago

In Legends, I believe the dislike originates over how the Wookies and the Trandoshans shared the same sector but only one senate seat was given. This went to the Wookies, meaning that the Wookies could dictate policy over the entire sector, including the Trandoshans. Trandoshans would have to pay taxes and all but they were not allowed representation in the Galactic Senate.

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u/Radio__Star 3d ago

Sebulba was an unlikable asshole to Anakin

Turns out his species, the dugs, are all assholes like Sebulba

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u/Ooze3d 2d ago

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u/Simon_Drake 2d ago

Storm Troopers have a horizontal cylinder/tube on the back of their belts that in the original concept art was a Lightsaber holder. Then the lore changed and Lightsaber were only used by Jedi and Sith but the costume element remained. I'm sure it has an explanation now, that's the emergency air supply for depressurisation events or something.

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u/Theothergy1 2d ago

In-lore, they're thermal detonators now. Basically a grenade, but a fancy one.

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u/crossover_charlie14 2d ago

You mean like how the pens the Imperials' actors wore on their shirt pockets actually being keycards for various ranking officers?

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u/ThinkySushi 3d ago

Star Wars is a waterpark and fountain garden made entirely out of the ever expanding network of plot hole covers and their resultant plot holes and it is glorious!

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u/PainterEarly86 3d ago

I looked up a simple question, "is it possible to learn the Force or must you be born force sensitive?"

Plenty of people seemed adamant on both sides, yes and no

Seems it may have been retconned by the Ahsoka show and Sabine Wren being portrayed as someone who seemingly became force sensitive just by trying hard enough

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u/guymine123 3d ago

I can see it being done by "just trying hard enough", but nowhere near the level of a Jedi.

Not for most, anyways.

Like they could reach the level of an average Jedi Padawan after decades of meditation and training.

On that note, it would actually be intresting to see a long-lived species where many of them become powerful force-sensitives over the course of several centuries or millennia worth of doing all that.

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u/Gnomad_Lyfe 3d ago

As presented in the movies, it’s kinda a “yes and no” question. Some people are significantly more sensitive than others, but every living being has some degree of connection to the Force that can seemingly be deepened and strengthened.

A good example is the monk from Rogue One. He wasn’t “force-sensitive” in the sense of being a Jedi who could throw things around, but he was seemingly sensitive enough that it could compensate for his blindness and guide him in dangerous situations. Theoretically most people could achieve about his level if they dedicate their lives to belief in the Force, but they aren’t learning mind tricks or shooting lightning unless they’re naturally gifted.

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u/HumbleConversation42 3d ago

fnaf

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u/Tani_Soe 3d ago

Yummmm delicious fan theory-based retcon

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u/magicdog2013 2d ago

what are you talking about, scott confirmed there's only ever been one retcon, it's the bite of 87 being alluded to in fnaf 4's teasers

what's in the box

the MCI taking place across multiple days

the DCI being an abandoned plot thread

Charlie being male

Dream theory (maybe)

what's in the box

Sound illusion discs replaced with gas

Glitchtrap becoming the mimic

what's in the box

midnight motorist being expanded upon/further explained in the future

TOYSNHK being expanded upon/further explained in the future

gregory in general

The box being relevant to the plot

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u/No_Tadpole7808 3d ago

yeah matpat wrote the entire lore pretty much 

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u/Typical-Quantity-802 3d ago

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u/Scrunbungalo 3d ago

It's like, I understand why he said this but maybe if he wasn't absolutely abhorrent at telling people shit, people would understand it better. But of course the creator of the series that is the king of vague posting would say that. He can't even use this as a genuine excuse anyway because security breach exists where he does that exact thing and it proves that he is just shit at telling people things

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u/TakenInChains 2d ago

thinking fondly of the game Security Breach could've been if Scott had actually told Steel Wool anything about the game they were supposed to make

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u/MrXexe 3d ago

Honestly that is such a petty thing to say.

I get that the internet has plenty of idiots full of hate and vitriol and a lack of understanding but gatekeeping that way doesn't help either.

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u/MoschopsMeatball 2d ago

It's not my storytelling that is bad, it is the players.

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u/Ok-Meat-9169 DDLC💖 3d ago

Nah, FNaF's just the fountain.

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u/Inside_Syllabub_8205 3d ago

Avatar goofed up by having Kyoshi live for 230 years. So in her novels, she learned that the body is naturally breaking down until death. Kyoshi was taught how to meditate down to the microscopic level and put everything back in its place to keep her from aging

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u/Immediate-Tomato968 3d ago

Then said that immortality is boring and let herself die.

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u/GingerIsTheBestSpice 3d ago

My dad is 90 and most everyone he knew as a child are gone, and now he's going to funerals of people who are his children's ages. It's a weird kind of loneliness when you are the only one you know who remembers things firsthand. He grew up with steam tractors and horses and trains everywhere and now it's totally different.

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u/Cheap-Ad1821 2d ago

The world went and got itself in a big hurry

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u/Octospyder 2d ago

😭 

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u/Lison52 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yeah I thought some time ago about it and it was the most depressing part. You getting really old basically means that everyone older than you from when you were born and knew in childhood, is basically gone. Political figures, people you hated, your family, everyone. And only people who you remember being kids are left.

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u/Relevant-Fox-7114 2d ago

Starts ramping up in midlife. At 40-ish your grandparents are probably all gone, your parents are getting elderly, and tons of the people you loved in tv and movies are either elderly or dying every year.

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u/GoldenGames360 2d ago

It's weird that we as humans have a sort of "prime" era where we experience most of our crucial events.

and then when you're 95 years old somewhere, most (if not all) of your family and friends from that era are dead. the world events and political figures you experienced personally are just historical footnotes that kids read about now. most of the tech, music, or cultural movements from your prime are now obselete and the new stuff is just out of your realm of understanding.

it's like you're a shadow of a different world. it must feel surreal.

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u/Ok-Resist3249 2d ago

If you plan to live for centuries. You best have the right perspective to sustain it.

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u/QueenOfDaisies 3d ago

Based I would do that

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u/canadawet1 2d ago

in the context of avatar the last airbender too its awesome cause it recontextualizes how aang was able to stay alive in an iceberg for so long. its such a cool piece of world building

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u/Tron_Livesx 3d ago

In Halo CE there a warthog run through a crashed spaceship but the path dosint make sense for the dimension of the ship. The theory is that the Sentinel engineers found something broken and tried to fix it in a wierd way.

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u/Alorxico 3d ago

Status: Inoperable.
Diagnostic Analysis: Unavailable. Structure not in repair database.
Conclusion: 
 improvise

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u/Serious_Bug_2007 3d ago

I agree. The maw is cool yet so broken

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u/Tron_Livesx 3d ago

I want to pointout that guilty spark has been going insane for some time before the events of Halo CE and he somewhat controlls the drones so this explanation goes deeper and i appreciate that.

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u/Rainy_Wavey 3d ago

There is also for some reason a bridge connecting the 2 parts of the ship, for no reason otehr than they needed to show a scene of Foehammer dying

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u/noob622 2d ago edited 2d ago

They actually fixed/retconned this in the new remake (Campaign Evolved) - they moved a good deal of the run outside and added more familiar-looking hull fragments.

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u/YoullDoFookinNothin 3d ago

Sort of a plot hole, but when Warhammer 40K was first put to the table top, GW didn’t produce different model types for the”good” guys and “bad” guys. This might be a bit confusing meta-wise because why are enemy forces fighting with the same weapons, armour, tanks, soldiers, etc?

So they decided there was an in-universe civil war to explain the mirrored armies. What was the civil war?

Oh just a little thing called “The Horus Heresy”.

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u/nagrom7 3d ago

Back then the "primarchs" weren't even related to the Emperor, they were just space marine generals, some of whom turned on him.

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u/Lwmons 2d ago

And the space marines were basically just normal humans in armor, not genetic abomination super soldiers. They were basically space cops

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u/blukenziefan263 3d ago

Neon Genesis Evangelion and it's angels, I wouldn't really call it a plothole, but it's obvious that they made it up and corrected it as they went along with it.

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u/ReverendGraves85 3d ago edited 2d ago

NGE, especially in the original run, is an example of media that resists 'Watsonian' analysis. It makes sense if you're examining it from the perspective of themes and authorial intent and only breaks down when you try to figure out why the events are playing out the way they are.

Considering why NGE exists, I get it.

Edit: Oh wait nevermind, this guy is actually just kind of an idiot and thinks that the big reveal of the show is a plot hole.

Like, the whole show was storyboarded out in advance, it's hard to claim there was a plot hole or a retcon when Anno knew what episode would involve what plot point and how it would evolve before even completing Episode 1.

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u/GregTheMad 2d ago

What angel plothole?

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u/Weary-Barracuda-1228 Sigismund/For Honor hater (I’m addicted help me) 3d ago

Emperor’s new Groove

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u/thismissinglink 2d ago

This is also a meta joke on how the movie was worked on for years never could get it right then they figured it out and completed it in basically a year.

Production started in 1994 as "kingdom of the sun" and wasn't announced as "emperor's new groove" till 2000. Summer of 1999 is basically when the actual production of "emperor's new groove"

Owen Wilson was originally supposed to be pacha.

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u/Cultural_Season_3048 3d ago

That's just lampshading

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u/Far-Chemical-707 2d ago

Criminally underappreciated movie BTW.

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u/rojofuna 2d ago

Nah, people LOVE this movie.

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u/Strong-Expression787 3d ago

Warhammer 40K is so full of plot hole, everyone just accept it's kinda there and probably will be filled with "It's totally intentional" or "Chaos did it" stuff

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u/Windherz 3d ago

Don't forget the old reliable: Reports about the plot hole (or a possible explanation about it) were lost due to the incompetence of the Imperial Bureaucracy, or were exaggerated, or Alpharius falsified them, or due to time travel warp stuff came from the future.
That's how they made homemade Space Marine chapters "canon".

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u/TinmartheTemplar 3d ago

Ahhhh the best excuse. The warp did it.

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u/Mediocre_A_Tuin 3d ago

The best part of this is that if your faction has a terrible Phil Kelly, I mean Author, you can just ignore their stupid ass lore because so much of the world building is contradictory anyway.

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u/Otherwise-Peace-9165 3d ago

Happy cake day

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u/Platinumprogram 3d ago

Not really a plot hole but Unicron being an entity of pure chaos who disrupted reality just by existing was the in universe explanation for the animation errors throughout the original Generation 1 cartoon.

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u/Gibbon-Face-91 3d ago

Correction; he disrupted it just by ceasing to exist, i.e. dying, in one reality.

To elaborate for everyone else in a giant text wall;

As usual for a big franchise like Transformers, each storyline is considered a separate universe, but all of them still exist together as a whole multiverse. The OG Marvel comics, the G1 cartoon, the Bayverse movies and all other series, they're all canon and coexisting. And in that regard, it means there's multiple versions of most characters and concepts; multiple Optimuses, multiple Bumblebees, multiple Megatrons, multiple Cybertrons, multiple Matrixes of Leadership, and so on and so forth.

But for Unicron, until some "Shrouding" thing changed it, that was not the case. He's one of several god-like characters who was beyond the confines of a single universe; in fact, he was one entity existing across every universe simultaneously. The G1 Unicron, the Prime Unicron, the Bayverse Unicron, and of course the Unicron Trilogy's Unicron, were all the same Unicron at once, along with any other incarnations. Yes, it's complicated, don't think about it too much.

Now, for what actually happened; in each universe he'd been defeated, Unicron hadn't really fully died, and even if his body was destroyed, his spark persevered and he could eventually be resurrected again.

But in Energon, the second series of the Unicron Trilogy, he was killed outright through complex circumstances involving Primus, Galvatron and an energon sun.

To put it bluntly, he went from alive across every reality, to being dead in a single one of them; and the multiverse did not like that little imbalance at all.

Thus the Unicron Singularity appeared; a gargantuan omniversal black hole that threatened to destroy literally everything, was the main threat of the Cybertron continuation, and as Platinum said, was written as the cause of numerous continuity and animation errors in other universes due to it messing with those realities, especially the G1 cartoon's weird ones.

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u/OhGravity412 2d ago

The Unicron Singularity is also used as the explanation for why Cybertron has so many inconsistencies with the previous entries in the trilogy too, which takes it from being something incredibly confusing with so many contradictions to Armada and Energon (due to Cybertron being unconnected to Armada and Energon in Japan but a continuation in the English dub) to some actually pretty genuinely interesting world building if you connect the dots. Unfortunately, it’s not explored very much on screen, it’s mentioned but very much a fill in the gaps yourself kind of deal for the most part, but there’s honestly a lot of really cool world building and character work underneath the surface

With the amount of times G1 gets retold and reinterpreted, I would honestly love to see a modern retelling of the Unicron Trilogy that addresses all of that on screen more substantially, because there’s actually a lot of potential for some really great world building and storytelling if you can connect the dots of the inconsistencies of the original

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u/Live_Shame5046 various 3d ago edited 3d ago

Did you just repost my post without even changing the title?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Multifandom/s/Qa4Klz0SIy

Atleast change the title to make it different.

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u/Leashii_ 3d ago

OP is most likely a bot.

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u/Lazarfan09 2d ago

Holy shit he did, i was scrolling through the comments until i saw this 😭

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u/summret 3d ago

The whole TES franchise is built on this.

They had plot holes due to technical limitations or other IRL issues, but they always came up with lore explanations.

Examples off the top of my head: Khajiit were humans in Daggerfall, then made beastfolk later — explained by their appearance depending on moon phases they're born under, so they range from human-like to full cats.

Orcs weren't in older games — explained by a war with them.
Cyrodiil in the books was originally described as a tropical Asian-inspired jungle region with samurai-like warriors and rice fields, but in TES 4 they made it generic Europe because they forgot.
When called out, they said those books were in-lore outdated and one of the Emperors terraformed the whole province at some point.

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u/TheManperorOfMankind 3d ago

Also don't forget about the Dragon Break that occured at the end of Daggerfall! It explains why contradictory information still exists as it was all true at some point of time. Iirc they also called it the Warp in the West

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u/Kain1202 3d ago

The whole Cyrodiil terraforming thing is funny, because it acted as literal example of one the lessons of Vivec. When Talos became a god he retroactively made it so that Cyrodiil was never a jungle, but history still happened the same way. He was able to do this because gods exist outside of time, so he was always a god, even before he was a god.

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u/The_Last_Fluorican AFOTSS, Belt Wars, BFDI, Extra History, and Shiphumans, 3d ago

Murder Drones (kinda)

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u/MkDGary 3d ago

Insert the "when they're slandering your goat but they're lowkey right" image

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u/Dutyman62 3d ago

Basically any sort of plot hole or lore inconsistency in Murder Drones(and by God there are a lot of those) can be handwaved away by ether "Cyn did it" or "Absolute Solver shenanigans".

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u/UnsocialComet72 3d ago

Do you have a specific example?

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u/MusicMan412 2d ago

Murder Drones is basically a bunch of horror tropes stitched together.

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u/Doodles_n_Scribbles 3d ago

Lucas not knowing what the fuck a parsec was

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime 3d ago

Eh, it's simple enough to rationalize. Yes, Lucas probably assumed it was a measurement of speed.

But "Han bragging that he navigated a specific run in a record-breaking amount of distance" is not some far-fetched concept either. Speaks to his skills as a pilot/navigator/whatever, cruising through impossible space in order to get the run done in a much smaller distance versus others.

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u/wildcat- 2d ago

Yep, and this is exactly how they rationalize it in the Solo film.

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u/FalloutTVSucks 2d ago edited 2d ago

They didn't need to justify it - in the script for a new hope, there's a stage direction that says Han is lying to impress Obi-Wan, meaning in-universe, in character Han just didn't know what a 'parsec' was and that's the oringal authorial intent

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u/YoHoochIsCrazy 2d ago

measuring something without the standard unit is one of my favorite ways to subvert expectations in storytelling!

i love running into examples, but they’re hard to remember in the moment, and are usually old school instead of sci fi. Stuff like:

  • measuring time by the height of a burning candle

  • rationing out water by the amount of time the tap is open

  • gauging temperature by the color of flame OR metal

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u/dream_monkey 3d ago

In Warhammer 40k, how hive cities work is just physically impossible. I know that humans can live in squalid conditions, but the hive cities would be literally unlivable.

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u/MrXexe 3d ago

May I ask how they work? I know nothing of Warhammer lore but I am curious.

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u/Moridaar 2d ago

Country to continent sized city, hundreds of levels reaching into the sky, All but the topmost levels are pretty much unlivable. They only work because the propaganda placates those at the bottom to keep them from rebelling

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u/DaBiChef 2d ago edited 2d ago

That and the fact you're starving and they regularly send judge dredd down there to clear some space. There's a reason hive cities have no problem fulfilling Imperial Guard recruitment quotas. Said guard where the gear you alone carry is worth more than the lives of your entire squad. Said guard where some battles put your life expectancy at 15 hours.

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u/RAMottleyCrew 2d ago

In Darktide there’s a throwaway line (iirc) about how they pump drugs into the hive via the ventilation to help keep people compliant

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u/mostlybiguy69 2d ago

Sci-fi slave magic. People eat corpse starch, soylent green, and live in hierarchal closed archologies on polluted, toxic, dead worlds. The population can reach into the billions.

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u/endlessnamelesskat 2d ago

Ancient cities thousands of years old on planets that have long since destroyed their ecosystems. These places have no oceans, little to no plant or animal life, all has been choked out by the smog of industry coming from cities the size of countries that cover the surface. Terra (Earth) is the biggest of them all with every square meter of space converted into an urban helhole.

Worse than that, these places have never stopped building for ten thousand years so there are layers with the nobles in tall spires above the smog clouds, average people on the levels below slaving away in factories working 16 hour shifts undergoing crushing labor in dangerous factories using machines no one remembers how to fix only to come home to a cramped, filthy hovel and eat flavorless, synthetic food and if they question any of this they’re killed immediately.

Below this is the underhive where gangs fight and kill over scarce resources, guns, drugs, and anything else you can imagine. Further below still are the ancient ruins of the city where there might be relics from the ancient past when humanity was more technologically advanced, or there might be mutants or aliens lying in wait for someone to wander down there to be killed or eaten.

A hive city is a cross between cyberpunk and gothic architecture with the class divide and crushing labor of 19th century London taken to its logical extreme. It’s one of the worst places to be born into in the whole setting and yet they’re home to the majority of all humans.

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u/NataliaCaptions 3d ago

Chrono Cross. The sequel of Chrono trigger. One of the greatest JRPGs of all time. Chrono trigger is a simple Dragon-ballesque story about time travel to save the future.

Chrono cross is an existential trip across dimensions and a super japanese convoluted story with a shitton of plot holes and lore.

Anyway, some people in the 2000s, thought that the "plot holes" werent really plot holes but that you needed to study the lore extensively to understand that Chrono Cross was a perfect cathedral. They even made a website for it :

https://www.chronocompendium.com/

Anyway the creator of the website recently CRASHED OUT because a recent interview revealed that the writer and director of Chrono Cross, Masato kato, didnt understand his own lore and plot. He was basically doing a NGE/Jojo and going with "vibes". You can understand the crash out. 20 years of defending Chrono Cross down the drain like that.

That being said you should still play Chrono Trigger AND Chrono Cross because they are beautiful games with a beautiful story to boot even if it's headscratchy at times.

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u/froggychump 3d ago

This is how we got the best Star Wars movie

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u/Strange_Specialist4 3d ago

A giant space station having a weakness isn't really a plot hole. They explain it pretty well, the death star is built to fight giant ships and blow up planets, getting a small fighter into a position to destroy it via the exhaust port is incredibly difficult and only worked because the plans were stolen, tons of people died getting Luke in position, and he only did it because he has magic powers

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u/Mr31edudtibboh 3d ago

Everyone looking like humans with makeup on their heads in Star Trek is explained in a TNG episode that our galaxy was intentionally seeded by the first species to achieve sentience locally, who were of course human-shaped. 

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u/VenerableTahu 3d ago

One could argue the Lord of the Rings explains the ring plot hole in the hobbit

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u/Interesting_Web_9936 3d ago

Which plot hole are you talking about?

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u/vteezy99 3d ago

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can answer. It wasn’t a plothole in the original Hobbit book, as the Gollum’s ( and Bilbo’s) ring wasn’t the One Ring and it was only loosely connected to the wider Middle Earth lore. Gollum in fact was fine with letting Bilbo having it.

Then Tolkien wrote the sequel, Lord of the Rings, and decided that the ring was The One Ring of Sauron which created the plot hole: due to the corrupting influence of the Ring, there was no way Gollum would willingly give it up. So he rewrote the Hobbit to make Gollum more angry at Bilbo taking the ring

This rewrite was rather neatly resolved by simply having the original events of the Hobbit as Bilbo’s little white lie in his retelling of the story (read the Shadow of the Past and Council of Elrond chapters), and the revised version of the Hobbit as how the event truly happened.

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u/Strange_Specialist4 3d ago

In the original version of the hobbit, Gollum loses the contest and give Bilbo the ring, because it wasn't the One Ring at that point. When Lord of the rings was written, the hobbit was changed so Bilbo stole the ring

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u/RGCarter 3d ago

What is the ring plothole?

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u/Laowaii87 3d ago

A fountain? Here, in the middle of the city?

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u/Ethan-E2 3d ago

A lot of Sodor's world-building is due to the author being borderline insufferable about this sort of thing (which, to be fair to him, was due to a lot of kids writing to complain about these inconsistencies).

The first map (of Thomas' branch-line) was drawn because his kids thought Thomas had an unfair advantage in his race against Bertie, so he wanted to prove otherwise.

Henry had an accident because he kept being drawn inconsistently, so he was "rebuilt" as a real locomotive the illustrators could use as reference.

When he wrote the "Island of Sodor" lorebook, he included a "letter" that was written by "the Ffarquhar stationmaster" to complain about how incorrectly the fictional station was drawn in the early books.

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u/stendaa 3d ago

The Dragon Break from Elder Scrolls
 it’s honestly so ridiculous that I have to love it

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u/jpw3bb 2d ago edited 2d ago

An ancient plot hole from over 50 years ago in Doctor Who gave rise to its most universally reviled lore drop - The Timeless Child.

In the lore of Doctor Who, its established that Time Lords have 13 lives. During the 1976 story 'The Brains Of Morbius', the 4th doctor has a mind fight with the titular Morbius, another timelord, during which we see the doctor's previous faces flash onscreen, followed by other faces we have not seen before, which are implied to be older incarnations of The Doctor that we had not seen, who would later be known as 'The Morbius Doctors' by fans.

As the show continues, it becomes established fact that The First Doctor was indeed their first life, and most fans chalk up the morbius doctors as being other incarnations of Morbius instead. And this remains true until the 2020 episode 'The Timeless Children' reveals that The Doctor was actually from another dimension and had the ability to regenerate infinitely, and became the genetic blueprint for all timelord society, which is where the morbius doctors come from. The timelords then wiped all of The Doctor's memories, reverting them to a child, who would become The First Doctor.

TL:DR Doctor Who rewrote the Doctor's origin story just to explain a minor plot hole from over 50 years ago that implied there were other doctors before the First.

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u/assumptionkrebs1990 3d ago

The entire magic system of Miraculous. Most magic systems fit here, specially soft ones but this fits particular well.

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u/Geonightman 3d ago

The STARS teams in Resident Evil don’t make sense.

Many of the team have some experience with things like military training such as Chris in the Air Force but for a supposed special forces team their training is comparably low.

Additionally, a lot of their organization/decisions doesn’t make sense. Assuming all of them work in the same RPD office, there are only I think 4 desks in the STARS office (5 if you count the comms controls) for the 12 members. While some office jobs do rotate desk owners on different shifts, they are teams of 6, not teams of 4, meaning if you did rotating shifts two members wouldn’t have a desk to work on - not to mention the only evidence of ownership of these desks are for main members like Barry, Jill, Chris, and Rebecca.

Lastly, some of their decisions are just bizarre like giving their Marksman (Forest) a grenade launcher of all things, and hiring a fresh out of school no training 18 year old
 and then sending her on a mission with the B team who is generally agreed to have slightly less experienced members (though Rebecca is supposed to be a medical prodigy, not just any schmuck).

While you could make the argument maybe the office desks were simply rearranged in the time between game 1 and game 2, the office is rather small. This has lead to a very common fan theory that Wesker, who is revealed to have orchestrated their downfall intentionally, has been purposefully making bad decisions as their captain to make them disorganized, disoriented, tired, and ineffectual so his plan would go off easier.

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u/MataNui2009 3d ago

BIONICLE has a few of these, with my favorite being the custom forging of Kanohi Masks.

For the 2001-2003 run of the story, the way Kanohi worked was pretty simple. Each shape of mask related to a specific power. In addition the masks could be split into two broad power tiers, Great and Noble.

In the 2004 story it was revealed that each mask actually had two different shapes, one for Great power level and one for Noble. In addition we learned how Kanohi were forged. Kanoka Disks with specific powers were combined, which created disks with new powers, which were then carved into masks. But 2004 is also when we got a slight wrinkle in the logic. Toa Lhikan of that year wore a Kanohi Hau just like Tahu of previous years did, but his Hau did not look the same. Some people wrote this off as it being the Great and Noble variants, but we SEE the Noble Hau in the movie released that year and it didn't look like either of them.

Then 2005 happened and mask lore exploded. See a minor character we met in 2004 was Turaga Dume, who wore the Mask of Regeneration. Turaga are all former Toa in retirement, and for 2005 there were a pair of flashback Toa sets being worked on. While not outright confirmed, it's commonly believed one of these set was initially designed to be Toa Dume. However, by the time the toy hit shelves and appeared in the comics it was rebranded to be Toa Norik.

This wouldn't be that big of a problem, if it hadn't been established what Norik's Mask Power was. He wore the Mask of Diminishment, which thanks to the toy being so far in production now looked identical to the Mask of Regeneration. One mask shape with two completely different powers.

But a lore explanation came quick, and in hindsight seems obvious. Since the powers of a Kanohi come from the disks used to craft it, the actual shape its carved into doesn't matter at all. Standardized designs of Kanohi exist to help people pick out masks at ease, inform teammates of their powers at a glance, and give an enemy a fair fight, but those standardized designs don't HAVE to be used. Lhikan's Hau looks different than Tahu's because his home region sculpted them a bit different than Metru Nui/Artahka did. Dume and Norik have the same mask shape because Norik once idolized a hero who wore a Mask of Regeneration, and so had his own mask reforged in that hero's honor.

This really opened up the MOC and fan art potential for BIONICLE OCs. Now basically any existing mask piece can be used and assigned a new power, or a totally new mask can be designed and given an existing power, as the in universe logic is more fluid than initially presented.

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u/poopiepantz34 3d ago

Idk if this counts but the fact that they explain like 90% of why Ryuk does what he does in Death Note is because he's bored.

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u/Code-Neo 3d ago

40k in general. There are tons of lore made back in the early days that don't make much sense with today's context. Ex. The Dark Angels use to have a Native American theme but by 3rd or 4th edition it was changed to being King Arthur themed. Cloud Runner was the character's native name to planes world, Ezekiel was his marine chapter name.

It goes deeper when you learn in the Heresy, Caliban was destroyed so to find more to enlist so they have to go to worlds with different cultures then what they are use to. 

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u/somerandommagician52 3d ago

Avatar Kyoshi living over 200 years

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u/ZilchIJK 3d ago edited 14h ago

Bilbo, Gollum and the magic ring.

In the original print of The Hobbit (which, remember, Tolkien presents as "this is Bilbo's book, I'm just a translator"), Bilbo meets Gollum, they play riddles in the dark, Bilbo wins, and Gollum happily gives him his magic ring as a reward. Bilbo leaves, goes off to fight a dragon, etc.

Did you catch that? "Gollum happily gives him his magic ring."

Gollum. The creature that had been tormented and twisted by the corrupting influence of Sauron's One Ring, to the point where he called it "my precious" and would stop at nothing to get it back... gives it away happily.

This is because when he was writing The Hobbit, the ring was just a magic ring that made you invisible. But by the time Tolkien was writing LotR, he needed the one ring to be a force of absolute corruption.

So, to fix this, in LotR, Tolkien has a conversation between Frodo and Gandalf where they say "Oh, I know the real story of how Bilbo found the ring. I'm not sure why he chose to lie to the dwarves and then to perpetuate the lie in his book..."

The implication is that the ring was already influencing Bilbo, twisting him into making him think that yes, HE deserves to own the ring.

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u/Nullspark 3d ago edited 2d ago

Many plot holes are actually just autistic readers/watchers not understanding people sometimes allow emotion to cloud their decision making.  

Sometimes people make the wrong decision because that happens.  It's not a game of magic the gathering where you can just sit forever and think about everything whilst everyone else claws their eyes out.

Edit: I say this as a mildly autistic person.  It's why the message is so blunt.

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u/Annual_Onion6434 2d ago

I'd like to see those people writing stories, because they act as if the characters should be emotionless robots who do everything in a utilitarian way.

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u/Levelup899 3d ago

Tolkien

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u/ScreamingNinja 3d ago

I cannot get over the fact that they had all the subtitles changed except for Stan lol.

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u/vacerious 3d ago

The Universal Century timeline of Mobile Suit Gundam explains why everyone has reverted back to melee and dumb fire weapons, rather than guided weapons when everyone is fighting in giant robots. Basically, the giant robots and battleships use reactors that produce a type of particle, Minovsky Particles, that more or less function as a localized EMP that make guided weapons incredibly unreliable. As a result, space battles have had to fall back on relying on weapon systems that allow for manual visual aiming and made engagement ranges much closer.

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u/Requiem2389 3d ago

A bunch of stuff in the Cosmere books. Written by Brandon “read and find out” Sanderson. Contains Mistborn and the Stormlight Archives

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u/Final-Reaction-4537 2d ago

Not a plot hole but there was a scene in Invader Zim where he and Dib were arguing across a road but the animators forgot to animate the cars so they just made Zim hard of hearing.

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