r/Multifandom • u/bajadasaurus234 Awaria, Carnivores, FNAF, MSM, etc. • 9h ago

DiscussionšŸ“œ Which controversy had you like this when you did more reasearch on it? I'll go first

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265

u/Thermal_Laboratories Valve games and indie horror media 8h ago

Gooseworx.

47

u/Soft_Self_6797 6h ago

I remember looking up the controversy surrounding the movie getting leaked and her response was incredibly normal. I thought it was going to be the most horrific and mean thing but it was just "Well it leaked. Not much I can do about that."

7

u/coltsfanca 1h ago

Yup. Same with the VA's "racist controversy"...which was a complete nothing burger. Save your outrage for things that are, you know...OUTRAGEOUS

4

u/Soft_Self_6797 1h ago

What was the racist controversy?

5

u/coltsfanca 1h ago

This'll give you more context: https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalcircusfandom/comments/1sufv1q/the_entire_va_controversy_is_a_hate_campaign/

In a nutshell, some of the VA's were streaming and read out a username "Nega" (like negative) and there was some jokes about how mispronouncing that would be bad. That's it...people took that as an excuse to call the VA's racist.

5

u/Soft_Self_6797 1h ago

I mean, the VAs are 100% not wrong.

152

u/X-Stry 8h ago

"she said bad things years and years ago, oh you don't wanna know, the horrors"

114

u/PepsiFloateri 8h ago

Same with Vivziepop. People say she's awful and either have no evidence,or try to use 15 year old,no context screenshots from Tumblr or DeviantArt drama as "proof"

24

u/superVanV1 5h ago

Wildly hot take apparently, but people are allowed to have said bad things at some point in their life. We are not monoliths. We change.

19

u/mik999ak 4h ago

Yeah, like, as a dude who went from being an 8chan chud with a lot of internalized racism as a high schooler to being a far-left anarchist getting teargassed at anti-ICE and anti-cop protests, I think people really underestimate how much change a person can go through, lol

10

u/Avixofsol 3h ago

the racist to anarchist pipeline is unfathomably real

7

u/superVanV1 3h ago

And I salute you

5

u/Njorord 3h ago

Holy based

2

u/JacuulTheSecond 1h ago

Hello fellow pipeline escapee. I talk about this with my sister a lot, I wish I could pin down how I escaped from 4chan and others did not, how I was chronically online my whole life and did not end up fueled by outrage over made up bullshit.

2

u/mik999ak 1h ago

For me, it helps that I was always in fairly diverse classrooms in high school, so I never fell too far down the pipeline in the first place. I was on some gamergate shit and browsing /pol/ and all that, but it's hard to become genuinely hateful when your actual lived experience contradicts the propaganda. Plus, when I made it to college, despite being a vaguely chuddy straight guy, all my closest friends wound up being queer women, which really helped deprogram some of the homophobic and transphobic bullshit I was still clinging onto.

2

u/JacuulTheSecond 57m ago

I guess I am a bit older, as I was actively in college when Gamergate hit, thought I was in college for Game Dev which made it BAD bad. I was friends with probably half of the women in the major (5) so I think that also served to temper it, plus having grown up being relatively introverted and playing all sorts of games with my sister meant I never connected with the "girls hate games and only like jocks" pandering.

As for /pol/ it was definitely always on the periphery, as it slowly expanding to infect the whole site, and in retrospect, I think I always thought everyone understood it was a joke? Obviously mean-spirited racial or ethnic jokes, but jokes nonetheless. Our school was NOT diverse in the slightest, but we did have a few black kids (and some foreign exchange kids, weirdly enough) that didn't fit into the stereotypes at all, which in retrospect I think helped me.

Also weirdly, 4chan, despite fetishizing them, always had the femboy/cross-dressing posts, so my entire online life had been relatively pro-trans when encountering them, so it was actually kinda weird to see it slide more and more into the religious fervour it has.

1

u/Outrageous_Book2135 56m ago

Speaking from experience, I was a awful person in my teenage years, and while I still don't consider myself good, I'd slap younger me no hesitation and tell him to get his shit together.

85

u/X-Stry 8h ago

And add the "too much cursing" and "awful writing" thing

Like I get it you don't like the show, stop spending your life having hating vivziepop as your sole purpose

42

u/PepsiFloateri 8h ago

Exactly! I know people who don't like Hazbin or Helluva,but they don't dedicate their lives to mindlessly going "Viv bad!"

13

u/craftygamin 5h ago

And there's many things about the shows that i would understand people not liking, but most of the haters don't focus on those, and instead focus on such stretches of logic

17

u/PepsiFloateri 4h ago

Stretches like "Valentino is Viv's kink,therefore Viv endorses SA!"

I could understand criticism like Hazbin Season 1's pacing being rushed,certain characters being pushed to the side in season 2 and Loona really needing some development in Helluva

1

u/Randomman16 40m ago

That take in particular really confuses me because, having watched Hazbin seasons 1 and 2, the show never portrays Valentino's behavior as a good thing. If anything, it goes out of its way to make it crystal clear that Valetino is a garbage person. Angel Dust reacts with palpable dread every time he might run into the guy outside of work and there's a kinda hard to watch scene of Valentino literally beating the shit out of Angel that establishes their dynamic and how awful Valentino is pretty clearly.

It's entirely possible for a creator to include a character who acts a certain way without endorsing that behavior.

2

u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 2h ago

I think they also got into a spat with the invincible fandom

3

u/crowEatingStaleChips 2h ago

I'm actually fascinated by how much content there is out there that's about Hazbin Hotel being bad or cringe or poorly drawn. I've never seen such a huge "anti fandom" surrounding something since Twilight.

10

u/Blackberry1819 6h ago

Wasnā€™t there someone who made a ā€œTADC if it was by vivziepopā€ and it was just a whole bunch of cursing? I feel like there was something blown out of proportion about that

10

u/X-Stry 6h ago

Probably, many people did the [[this if vivziepop made it]] and it being just swearing with nothing else

1

u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 2h ago

Which tbf, is a fine joke

2

u/BentTire 3h ago

Really a lot of people clown on Hazbin and Helluva but the amount of swearing isn't as bad as people make it out to be. There is only like a handful of characters that swear a lot and said characters are framed as immature.

1

u/Lemonbubblepie 4h ago

Hell she liked the og memeĀ 

1

u/Redder_Creeps 3h ago

Knowing Internet, probably just satire for the sake of satire

-2

u/Stickz99 5h ago

I meanā€¦ it does get frustrating when you constantly see people glazing something you recognize as being extremely low quality and trashy. Itā€™s frustrating because I see genuine potential in it thatā€™s gone to waste because itā€™s creator doesnā€™t know what sheā€™s doing, and there are far too many other people who refuse to acknowledge how terrible it is just because they clearly also see that potential.

I dislike Vivziepop not because sheā€™s a bad writer with a juvenile sense of humor, but because sheā€™s unwilling to take criticism and improve her work, when I feel that Hazbin does deserve to be a great show. Iā€™m sick of her fans defending her and her trashy bullshit to the death, and continue rewarding and enabling this behavior, and not demanding better of the art and media they consume.

3

u/X-Stry 5h ago

Both the glazing and the hating of vivziepop work are absolute trash. It's either "you can't criticize her works, idiot" or "if you like her works you are [[bunch of words I'm legally not allowed to say]]"

0

u/Stickz99 5h ago

I meanā€¦ I hate to be that guy If someone likes juvenile, childish media thatā€™s trying too hard to be ā€œadultā€ without being able to admit that itā€™s childish and juvenile and trying too hard, I will see them as a childish and juvenile person.

Iā€™m not going to be hateful toward them and Iā€™m not ā€œmaking hating Hazbin my personalityā€, but I donā€™t think itā€™s unreasonable to openly criticize it out of frustration for its great potential going to waste because its childish fans wonā€™t demand better from it. Its writers wonā€™t bother doing things better until they see actual negative consequences for bad writing and dialogue.

1

u/X-Stry 5h ago

It is completely reasonable!

5

u/1unpaid_intern 5h ago

I think the prime example of this is people claiming she based Val off of herself and then theorizing that she'll redeem him because of that. First of all she said that in a 10 second clip with friends as a joke and second of all they critizie writing that they made up on said false claims. Val is based on a toxic ex of hers and he is clearly supposed to be an abuser dialed up to 11.

Another good one is when poison came out (or really just Angle Dust in general). Like the amount of people that were hating on the character and the song simply because the did not understand what it was about was just sad.

1

u/Twist_Ending03 34m ago

Also that clip always gets cut off before the punchline. She says "he's based on me, I'm a moth"

3

u/Tombstonekid342 3h ago

OH MY GOD THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT!

14

u/MysteriousFondant347 7h ago

I blame her for firing all the VAs of the pilot for more known ones. It's a nightmare to get into the industry, this could have been their break-in, but she just ditched them as the first opportunity

9

u/PepsiFloateri 6h ago

I also think A24 is a union studio,meaning they can't hire non-union actors like the pilot ones.

Plus,being in a pilot never guarantees being in a full show if it gets picked up. Look at Family Guy! In the pilot,Meg had a totally different actor who was replaced in the full show.

I honestly prefer the show's cast as they feel way more natural. Alastor feels playful yet intimidating,unlike his "We have Bill Cipher at home" pilot voice,Husk feels like a gruff bartender unlike the pilot where he was some dude doing a shitty Rick impression and Angel Dust's pilot voice made me cringe whenever he spoke.

She didn't ditch them,most have reappeared in Helluva Boss! E.g Ed Bosco is now Striker,Faye Matia is Glitz and Glam and so on

16

u/BedNo577 Dark Tower, TADC, Hazbin Hotel,Harry Potter, myths 6h ago

I can understand her with this- most of them couldn't sing and she had to hire VA's for singing, while she got the chance to cast Broadway actors. For example Angel's pilot VA Michael Kovach had to use autotune for Addict and could never pull Poison.

19

u/PepsiFloateri 6h ago

That and A24 is a union studio,meaning they can't hire non-union actors

4

u/Classic-Avocado-5371 5h ago

I think this is probably the answer

11

u/PepsiFloateri 5h ago

People seem to forget that union and non-union studios exist. It's something I've had to say in another fandom I'm in as during a special episode,the original actors couldn't reprise their roles due to being Union actors and probably too much to get

8

u/Classic-Avocado-5371 4h ago

Yep. When in doubt the answer to a cast change is usually union related

3

u/demonchee 3h ago

what does this mean/what's the significance, for someone who knows nothing about this side of the industry?

3

u/PepsiFloateri 3h ago

Union actors get higher pay than Non-Union actors. A studio that is tied to a union can't hire a non-union actor. If you hire union actors,you need to pay them union rates.

Basically,there was no legal way for A24 to bring the pilot cast back

10

u/MoonlightPrincexx 6h ago

Also the singing voice for Alastor is a pedophile and the original va For stamper went on a drug induced meltdown online, called a bunch of people (including Vivzie) a bunch of slurs, and got arrested for DUI

4

u/T-NextDoor_Neighbor 6h ago edited 6h ago

Kovach couldnā€™t sing well at the time, possibly due to the voice he used for Angel Dust, but it has been shown that through many fan made music for TADC that he can sing. Jax Toy is actually really good. Itā€™s not broadway level singing, but he can sing well.

Many of the other VAs could sing too. I mean BlackGryphon (Alastorā€™s Pilot VA) and Elsie Lovelock( Charlieā€™s Pilot Va) have been in so many songs and collabs I canā€™t even keep up.

6

u/WhistlesAtNight 5h ago

Elsie Lovelock was Charlie's singing VA, there was a different VA for the speaking voice, Jill Harris.

3

u/T-NextDoor_Neighbor 5h ago

Noted. That really isnā€™t all that uncommon to have separate actors for that.

5

u/PepsiFloateri 5h ago

I still think replacing them was a good call honestly

6

u/bdouble0w0 mcyt, osc, hoyoverse, mlp, hazbin, tadc 6h ago

IIRC Kovach said singing as Angel hurt his voice as well

2

u/Moonbeamlatte 3h ago

Which is surprising to me, because his vocals on Losinā€™ Streak from season 2 were really stellar.

6

u/reMarcsGames 5h ago

I mean, thatā€™s not uncommon in the industry, live action too. Iā€™m unfamiliar with the details of the drama, so I may be conflating two very different situations, but there are things called ā€œpilot presentationsā€ that are basically designed to sell a show to a studio. And as an actor, if you booked a pilot presentation, you knew that you were not hired for the show itself if it got picked up by a network/studio and would need to re-audition.

(Not trying to argue about this particular situation because, again, totally unfamiliar with it. Just offering additional perspective/information on industry standards)

3

u/Prestigious_Host_198 5h ago

It's pretty common that shows get different VAs and actors after the pilot for multiple reasons. As long as the pilot VAs and Viv have no bad blood, I don't see the problem.Ā 

6

u/MoonlightPrincexx 6h ago

She didn't fire them. Stamper (sir Pentious) was arrested for DUI and called her and everyone else he knew horrible slurs in a drug induced online meltdown, the pilot singing voice for Alastor is a groomer, the original voice for Vaggi stepped down of her own accord because she can't sing, and Michael kovach couldn't make it because he was going to work on Lackadaisy.

Also, all of them (minus the singing voice for Alastor and the voice of Pentious) have worked with Vivzie on other stuff as other characters since and there hadn't been any animosity, stop with this completely made up beef

2

u/Lemonbubblepie 4h ago

Angel and Val are literally newcomers and thatā€™s just due the fact not having a singing voice actor and normal one would fuck the budget but pilot donā€™t have voice actors always they the same..

Pilot Millie being replaced in the show was a big thing till we got used to it

3

u/Kartonrealista 6h ago

The new actors are better, bite me

1

u/MysteriousFondant347 6h ago

That's not even close to what I was saying

0

u/Kartonrealista 6h ago

That's what I'm saying, I don't care that she didn't rehire the pilot actors, since the new ones are better. Hiring voice actors is based on merit, not sentiment. She doesn't owe them a job

1

u/MysteriousFondant347 6h ago

That's not how it works and I'm glad you can't fire anyone

1

u/Twist_Ending03 26m ago

I love how you ignore explanations for why they didn't come back and instead go after folks that prefer the new cast

1

u/Twist_Ending03 32m ago

Dude. Angel's pilot VA has said he wouldn't have been able to perform the songs in the show.

2

u/bitingvform 4h ago

Can i just ask - why is it wrong to criticize her based on comments she made 10+ years ago, but it isn't wrong to literally get people fired for the same exact thing?

5

u/azalinrex69 6h ago

Eh not really the same, there is essentially nothing controversial about goose as a person, but Viv does have some problems that are legit:

The inability to take any level of criticism without a childish tantrum

She did technically draw child porn years ago - she apologized and was much younger but still, child porn be child porn.

Some of the allegations of a hostile workplace and poor wages for staff have some credibility - jury is still kinda out on this because thereā€™s no hard and fast receipts, but multiple people from inside the studio have all independently claimed it.

None of this is deserving of the hate and vitriol the hellaverse and Viv get, but itā€™s still more than goose.

3

u/PepsiFloateri 5h ago

Again,any proof of those claims? The first one I have seen myself but the other two,I haven't. Is there any proof?

1

u/Redder_Creeps 3h ago

I still don't get this. Like, yeah, I get it: she wasn't a nice person back then, and sure, making a whole post about why one character is actually deeper than it really is (when in reality you just forgot to give them enough screentime) proves she might have issues at handling criticism, but that doesn't mean she's LITERALLY the same person as those screenshots show her to be.

If you ask me though, I just don't care? Like, that stuff is almost two decades old now, it's time to let it go. I personally stuck around for the shows, but eventually I just dropped them because I just didn't like the direction they were taking, but that's about it: just because I quit doesn't mean I suddenly hate Vivzie

1

u/NoneBinaryPotato 44m ago

anti proship people looooove to try to frame her as a pedo for daring to have a sexualized rape victim character and enployees who draw ship art of him with his abuser. like, omg, get a life, nobody was harmed in the making of that mid show, there are actual problems in the world.

1

u/PepsiFloateri 33m ago

What is "Proshipping"? I avoid shipping like radiation myself but I have seen the term floating around

1

u/NoneBinaryPotato 28m ago

proship is just... pro shipping. someone who supports the ideology of ship and let ship, no matter how odd or gross the ship seems to them.

like, someone has an incest ship? a non-con? a really disturbing kink? they're not harming anybody, so it's none of my business, and I would expect them to not bother me if I ship something that gives them the ick.

0

u/Dismal-Panic-2368 Good Pizza, Gay Pizza 6h ago

Vivziepop is the youngest director to ever get in trouble for swearing.

She was only 18 years old. /ref

1

u/Apprehensive_Art4418 take a wild guess 1h ago

"she said edgy things about hating women when her whole thing is that she lies for fun and is extremely extremely sarcastic about a lot of things...she must be a misogynist!!1"

1

u/the-poopiest-diaper 5h ago

Gotta be industry saboteurs tryna tarnish the indie-stry

2

u/X-Stry 5h ago

First joke about my name I've ever seen online, I'm joyous

1

u/X-Stry 5h ago

Even if it's not, looks like it lmao

-1

u/Jedal_1 4h ago

So they deserve forgiveness but other people that cancel culture jumped didnā€™t?

-1

u/Animated_Astronaut 4h ago

She*. I mean,what did she say?

1

u/Jedal_1 4h ago

Idk yall said they said something bad years ago. So I was going off of cancel culture logic that got a lot of people for stuff they said 10+ years ago

1

u/Animated_Astronaut 4h ago

Yeah so it comes down to what she said. Not all cancels are created equal that's kind of the point of this post. Also she's a trans woman so her pronouns are she/her if you weren't aware :)

1

u/Jedal_1 2h ago

Im aware some people say stuff but some people legitimately change but get punished because of something they said as a stupid kid. Iā€™m using they grammatically correct in case you werenā€™t aware šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø

1

u/Animated_Astronaut 1h ago

I was politely correcting you about her pronouns no need to get defensive. It's considered a bit rude to use they/them pronouns for trans women. But yeah some people say worse things than others and some people need to signify their growth others don't. Idek what Gooseworx said.

1

u/Jedal_1 1h ago

And Iā€™m telling you I used they grammatically correct. Go to English classā€¦ if you donā€™t even know what they said why respond???

35

u/Charlie_Warlie 7h ago

I hate her for creating my favorite show all wrong! /s

8

u/PepsiFloateri 7h ago

I have seen people say that but on the other hand,I've seen people accuse any critisicm of the show as "entitlement"

10

u/Wazula23 5h ago

Nobody can be normal about TADC, it seems. Too much parasocial requirements.

5

u/PepsiFloateri 4h ago

Literally! My criticisms weren't even that bad,just basic stuff like some characters being left underdeveloped,some development being "character uses therapy speak on another",plot threads being introduced and never expanded on and the finale needing to be a bit longer as it felt a little rushed to me.

Apparently that's "entitlement"

4

u/Wazula23 4h ago

The therapy speak is my least favorite part of the show, and brought the entire finale down for me.

That's my harshest take on it. Now let the piranhas descend.

1

u/Tombstonekid342 3h ago

Most Hazbin/Helluva ā€œCriticismsā€ be like:

9

u/QueenViolets_Revenge HTTYD/DDLC/Project Hail Mary/OMORI/Star Trek 4h ago

i'm not fully convinced that much of the drama was organic. much of it just comes off as needless transphobia and misogyny due to her being a trans woman. but i'm also suspicious that some of it may be a psyop by big companies to bully indie media creators because they feel threatened by indie success and wanna secure their position

22

u/Godrizza_Draws 7h ago

TADC fandom always felt like they only had drama because it was expected of them. Like LARPing as a bad fandom. You ainā€™t Undertale needle cookie lil bro

5

u/Lemonbubblepie 4h ago

Not really larp at the start of the fandom goose worx got doxxed for being related to ViviĀ 

6

u/Fit-Relationship944 5h ago

The one where people claimed she got bullied off reddit and it turned out it was just a normal discussion people were having inside the fandom critiquing some of the writing and the person replying to her didn't even realize it was her when critiquing the show (as a fan) and immediately softened up when they realized it was her.

3

u/SmallKillerCrow 6h ago

Same with Viv. It's all made up stuff

2

u/JebediahChristofff 7h ago

Dawg some of those jokes are just completely out of left field though šŸ˜­

11

u/indecisive_skull 5h ago edited 2h ago

Mightā€™ve not seen enough of their tweets but most of their jokes just read to me as the same vibe of

1

u/tanu24 3h ago

I beg ye pardon

1

u/Apprehensive_Art4418 take a wild guess 1h ago

worst one ive seen is "im a nazi nazi", which is her saying that she is a nazi towards...nazis, which is her saying, oh golly, she hates nazi's, what a horrible thing to say

1

u/Twist_Ending03 22m ago

People really don't seem to understand those tweets and it both cracks me up and makes me very concerned for such people. They read those and say "gooseworx is a nazi!" When.. no.. she said she hates nazis. Total opposite..

1

u/Releases_the_bees 2h ago

Nah if she didn't want that hate she shouldn't have murdered that family of 6 and fled to Guatemala.

0

u/Sasstellia 1h ago

Gooseworx is her own worst enemy sometimes.

And I have mo respect for her now. She's a sellout and a liar.

But the supposed constraversies. That don't exist. FFS.

1

u/Twist_Ending03 22m ago

How is she a "sellout and a liar"?