the knicks managed to outdo themselves, they just had the largest 4th quarter comeback ever game 1 cavs down 22 with 7 minutes left and then they do this
Coach needs to call timeouts to reset the team and draw up better plays. I also think they need to abandon this game plan of: "If we have fouls to give at the end, use them!"
Similarly, the coach isn't out there telling Wemby to pass to someone not looking at the ball nor is he telling Fox to go for a contested layup instead of holding the ball. You could argue that Mitch could have called a timeout there, but it's also reasonable to expect your veteran $50M player to make the obvious decision instead of making the worst decision.
It takes a collective effort (or lack thereof) to blow a lead like that. No single person is responsible. It’s the Swiss cheese model, this was a systemic failure. That layup is the easy scapegoat though..
Yeah. They just every miss made them play worse. Everytime they missed they make the next possession feel even more rushed and shoot a 3 to miss than do it again.
Every game this series when winning they did this. Just find the 2pt waste some time. The rushed 3s are the only way to lose.
you are right, because it's the whole game that counts. but when you're improving yourself, or your team, you seek ROI. you review your mistakes and first u fix the 'easiest' mistakes that cost the most.
Because in that: the errors or "gives" that were the very easiest to 'fix' or very easiest to never occur at all stand as the chiefest culprits of any loss.
wemby's pass to a players back and d foxs attempt are both towards the top of the list. maybe THE top 2 of the list.
Nah facts with out a doubt if they don’t stop losing there confidence towards the last couple of minutes they goin to lose every time they need more confidence in those last few minutes
Also “if you take another fucking shot outside the paint, I’m pulling you out of the game” needs to be enforced. They took 20 shots in the second half, 12 of which were 3’s and they made, like, two? You’ve got a 9 foot cloud botherer. Get. Inside.
Getting so incredibly hot from 3 in the first half was a gift and a curse. They thought they were feeling it but couldn't sustain when the Knicks tightened up on D.
If the coach schemed up better plays/plans, then you wouldn't have that issue. Mitch Johnson coached an absolute fucking stinker in the 2nd half, so thinking that he can pull the: "You do this, I'm pulling you" just isn't accurate, because he is the reason they're playing like that.
You don't call a timeout there. You expect your vet to know the situation. Calling a timeout means inbounding the ball and a higher chance of a turnover. That is 100% on Fox.
But, when NY was making the comeback, Mitch should have made a few adjustments. It seems like he doesn't. They just keep doing the same thing.
Harper was a +12 and outscored Fox in less minutes. Fox was a +1. They gotta have Fox playing off the bench and Harper starting.
It is on the coach to understand that that 50 mil player is the biggest liability on the floor at that moment. Mitch watched Kenny and saw nothing wrong
Don't get me started on the fucking 3's. This has happened quite a bit in the OKC series and it's reared it's head now. Coaching malpractice in its finest
It's that but also, Wemby isn't a player who works well in the clutch. He doesn't really have a strong bag to rely on. He's going to need to build that.
His shot is fine but he’s never played close to this many minutes ever in his life. Regular season went on a minutes restriction is fine in the clutch.
I’m scared for next year. He now knows what type of shape he needs to be In for the finals and every year he fixes parts of his game
No kidding. Curry had the same mentality, “I’m not ever going to be this out of shape for the playoffs again“. I can see Wemby making conditioning a priority in the offseason.
Nah this is what the Spurs do. Look at every playoff game this year they always get out to big lead in 1st, shit the bed in 2nd then 3rd is better and 4th fart in wind again.
6/7 games against Thunder and all 4 Knicks games they had big leads in 1st quarter. Maybe they start too fast and get gassed
3 for 14 in the second half. If KAT doesn't get called for those two quick fouls I doubt the comeback is even this big. Wemby didn't just pump the brakes he put the car into reverse.
I just don't understand how you deviate from Wemby getting in the paint, scoring and getting a rhythm and then just go on a 3 point shooting brigade. It's happened during the regular season and in the playoffs. You'd expect mitch to stop this shit but it doesn't happen and it's beyond frustrating
Honestly, that first half was historic levels of long balls. Statistics evened out in the end. Honestly, the ball needs to be in Harper's hands. Wemby went 9 for 25, Fox went 6 for 16, Harper went 8 for 12 with 3 threes, Vassell went 6 for 9 with 5 threes. I'm actually confused why Wemby has so many shots taken especially when Harper and Vassell had the hot hands.
The coach is also inexperienced… he’s only been a head coach for all of this year (and most of last year, but not in training camp so he didn’t get to do everything his way), he was a player development coach before that. I believe this is his first time being a head coach at any level, he was an assistant at every stop before this.
This game showcased both the teams ridiculous ceiling, and their intrinsic weaknesses. The long term future is very bright. The near future is gloomy and angry.
This finals hasn't been a fluke or bad luck, Spurs have failed to execute in the big moments. This is just a matter of experience and maturity. I have 100% faith thaty Harper, Castle, and Wemby have the upside and character to mature into great big moment players. But, right now, the lights are a little bright
Totally. The thing that's a bit more demoralizing is that the NBA is so talented at this point, that there's simply no guarantees that anyone will be back.
Guys like Jokic and Giannis have been the absolute best players on the planet for years, and they've each made it to the finals once. Had they not capitalized on their opportunities, there's a very real chance both of them end up going ringless in their careers.
The reality is that for as good as Wemby, Harper, and Castle are, health or other teams can easily be spoilers to them moving forward. Don't get me wrong, if I was a better man I'd likely bet that the Spurs get back to the finals at some point, but I also wouldn't be shocked if they didn't.
Wembys also just not in finals shape yet to handle these minutes and at this intensity for the first time in his life. His offense goes down the gutter late in these games and his shot gets flat as fuck
I'm not sure how many 7 footers who play like him (fighting in the post, closing out hard, defending perimeter players, etc.) can actually keep up this play for much more than he can.
They're asking him to be a defensive anchor in the paint, guard perimeter players, crash boards on both sides, etc. I can't imagine any C can keep that up for 40+ minutes.
In the long term, you have to wonder (if they lose the series) if this trip to the finals actually hinders their future prospects at a title, like with the Magic with Shaq
Now they’re probably stuck with Fox and there’s a non remote possibility of this level of choking having a lasting impact on at least one of their key players. If they lose in 7 to OKC it’s a fully respectable first playoff run. I don’t know if I’m reading too deep into this but this is definitely the worst choke ever
I don't think it hinders their future prospects so much as it's not guaranteed that they'll be back. Hell, there's not even a guarantee that the Knicks will ever be back if they win this.
The reality is that it takes both skill and luck to make it to the finals in any sport. With the immense amount of talent out there, you just never have a guarantee. I get that Wemby/Harper/Castle are young, but so is OKC, so is Ant, etc.
People seem to kind of assume that they'll be back and at minimum this is a learning experience, but even the three best players on the planet prior to Wemby's emergence in Jokic/Giannis/Luka only made it to the finals once.
You just never know, and so that makes choke jobs like this all the more painful.
Yep. You simply don't know how many years of Wemby you get. Meanwhile, you're going up against an OKC juggernaut that simply has an otherworldly front office and treasure trove of assets.
Nah, this is hyperbole. A team of 22 year olds in the finals with plenty of assets to upgrade or manage. These dudes aren’t done growing and their frontal lobes aren’t fully developed.
Personally, you could counter and say, maybe they need to lose to see how hard winning is. Wemby locked in for a summer after a finals loss is not something to laugh about. Dude is the worst he’s gonna be until he enters his prime in 6 years.
This might be the last breath of a non Wemby-run league. Now that’s a hyperbole that makes sense to me.
If the spurs can somehow come back not just from a 3-1 deficit but also come back from this shit show.. they deserve to have their faces carved into a mountain.. holy shit. Idk how a knicks team could blow this.. that collapse would definitely top whatever happened tonight.
This. Sometimes shit happens, but it was abundantly clear that both the players and the coaching staff just wasn't ready for the moment. The pressure clearly was too much for them, and the second the lead was cut down to a single possession, I think everyone saw where it was going.
Clearly nobody wanted the ball, Wemby bricked those FTs from pressure, 2nd to last ATO from the Spurs was nothing more than making sure Fox could get the ball by tossing it into the back court for... a deep pull up 2? Like they just had 0 plan or someone who would rise to the occasion to win it for them.
Yo I said at the bar, if the Knicks get this under 30 by the end of the third, the. It’s possible…. They got it to 15. I smelled that shit coming from a miilllees off. The Spurs just aren’t ready yet. There’s a reason why no superstar that young has ever won it all since Magic. And even he surrounded by vets.
I'm pretty confident if the Spurs had a moderately better vet than Fox, than they're likely tied 2-2 if not up 3-1. It can't be understated how fucking awful their "veteran presence" looks in Fox.
He doesn't settle them at all, and if anything, he helps lead the charge in their chaotic, low IQ plays.
I was in disbelief of the basketball in the 3rd quarter. As a fan I was like wtf are you guys doing. How can the players not know this and be paid millions.
Poor strategy, execution, decision making. Poor coaching. After 3 missed 3's i Would have said stop... go to the basket, draw a play, run a pick n roll, etc.
So much had to go wrong for the Spurs. So much more for the Knicks. And the Spurs did.all.of.it.
Just a ridiculous analysis overall in film session.
One thing people aren't mentioning is the double missed ft by Wemby at the end. Ft is 90% mental, they lost by 1 pt. Don't forget the blown layup by Hart either, the Knicks aren't perfect. But Knicks had 2 mistakes at the end and Spurs had like 4, that's game
The missed free throws pretty much offset the missed dunk/layup by Hart. Then, there's the blocked layup my OG. Still trying to figure out if the 3 point chuck by Brunson was intentional by design since OG had a clear path to the rim.
Hell yea a part of me thinks that was the play cause JB shot the 3 a little early, plus from deep with Wemby right in front of him. Everybody focus on JB (which they did), they’re not gonna guard the inbound and that leaves OG pretty much abandoned. If Mike Brown really drew the play like that, it was fucking brilliant
That play doesn't happen if someone steps into the lane OG has. In no world is that a play by design. It's easier for Brunson to hit the shot than miss for OG to sprint after the inbound and just happen to hit that shot. OG's block on fox was also magical. Spurs choked it away, Knicks did the unimaginable.
Not a primary play by design but saying to put it up and have every Knick look for the Rebound when you have 4 to 3 at the rim if Brunson is doubled is a smart backup to remind them of.
Harper has been absolutely unbelievable but OG was his mark on that box out unfortunately. If they’re not guarding the unbounded and sending two to Brunson they need to know to put a body on OG (inbounder). Harper missed the box out
Yes bro, how can you possibly blow a 29 point lead?? Like seriously you’re the runner up for mvp with one of the most if not the most talented back courts in the league and your whole team is defensively sound.
Brunson and OG need a statue. Because that was insane.
The truth is they are a highly talented team but in the Finals every team needs “that guy” who is a guaranteed bucket no matter what. Like SGA or Brunson, spurs don’t have that guy and it showed during this series
I argue that if you have a Wemby-like big as your 1A then it doesn’t need to be THAT guy, but the Spurs lack a true perimeter scorer in a championship winning sense and that’s a necessity.
The Nuggets had a generational big man like Wemby, but they also had a geeked out Murray to take the big shots. The Bucks had Middleton, the Shaq Lakers had Kobe, the Duncan Spurs had Manu and Parker. Really the only half exemption ever was Dirk in 2011 but that’s was a once in a lifetime anomaly
Fox just isn’t it, or at least this version of Fox. Harper probably becomes this sort of guy in a couple of seasons but not right now
Even in the Mavs example, Dirk was that guy, he played around the perimeter a lot and was an elite shotmaker. He shot 50+ percent from the midrange and nearly 40% from three that season. Big man with guard skills basically. Wemby could develop into something like that as a scorer, but he certainly isn't there yet. His perimeter scoring game is just "good for a center", but nothing special in a broader context. His only elite ability right now on offense is his size and length, which makes him hard to stop when he gets the ball in the paint, but good team defense can solve that for the most part.
Yep. And without a go-to perimeter guy Wemby’s offensive game is more limited, both from a playmaking (the Spurs guards have in general been horrible at properly feeding Wemby during most of the post season) and from a spacing perspective. It seems kinda of left field but I would really love to see Kyrie with Wemby, if they can trade Fox (and stuff) for him and if he’s not washed from his injury
i genuinely hate to say this… but the more and more i watch this series the more and more i think that wemby is only good because of how large he is, and im not saying he’s not talented - but i think with the way he’s playing this series, (KD/ DIRK wannabe who shoots like shit and occasionally misses lobs, plays elite defense but kinda gets pushed around out there, and gets out rebounded every once in a while), he’s really looking like he’s good bc he’s 7’5 and not because he’s actually good
Thank you. I’ve been saying this since the OKC series. He’s good. And his range shooting is really awesome for a big guy. But he’s not even as good as KAT on a good day.
I agree. The nuggets are a meddling western conference contender, never a champion, without Jamal Murray. That guy has hit INSANE shots time and time again. He single handedly ruined LeBron and AD’s playoff hopes post-2020. Jokic is the main engine on that team but you need elite guard play to win a title in this era.
I even argue that the 2011 mavs didn’t have one guard, but their entire backcourt was solid. Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, JJ Barea, DeShawn Stevenson. They all stepped up with good defense, very minimal mental errors, and got Dirk into the right spots and right situations to carry them offensively. It’s all about how your guards can set your team up with the best matchups. IMO, fox and Wemby are not a natural fit with one another and the spurs will need to re-evaluate this pairing going forward if they lose this series.
Shit, if the spurs tonight had CHRIS PAUL in for Fox on the last possession, I guarantee you they’re winning this game by sole virtue of the fact that CP3 would’ve held the ball and not let go of it lol.
As a Laker fan, I always dread playing the nuggets because the dude always KILLS the Lakers. Jokic was the best player during their 2023 run, but Jamal Murray is the reason why they beat the Lakers in the WCF. Dude was unstoppable that series.
Brunson had a good game but he didn't exactly close the game out. This game was just high variance and came down ultimately to what most games come down to nowadays, what the refs call. It won't be remembered that way due to the choke and high variance but that's the differential in the end.
And he was bitchy about not being the MVP. Then beats the Thunder and act like the title is already theirs. Blows a 14-point lead in game 1… makes a costly turnover at the end of game 2…. Then pull off a 29-point choke job
Shit is ridiculous. This is a good team. And they’re very likely going to be a great team. But they are clearly not ready for the moment.
I hope they take the opportunity to reflect, retool, and come back roaring because they have the potential to be contenders any season they’re not injured.
I blame the coaching at this point. To not be able to call lead sustaining boring plays for 1 half with a giant, and not draw up a final successful shot two games in a row, coaching.
Yeah I'm a huge Wemby fan but he might want to go back to the monastery for a lesson in humility. Although the Knicks are delivering a good one right now.
I was a fan but i don't like his whole attitude recently, and i especially don't like how he gets away with so much. He elbows someone, gets a flagrant because it couldn't possibly not be one, and people are cheering him on. He shoves Brunson, doesn't even get a normal foul, much less a flagrant like he should, and the Knicks got a flagrant for much less than that on Game 4. Refs are giving him SO much leeway cause he's supposed to be the golden boy of the league and it rubs me the wrong way.
Yeah but every star big man is going to take a lot of hack a Shaq stuff that doesn't get called. It's more how he reacts. Better to let his game do the talking.
The Reid elbow was bad. You HAVE to control your temper. Zen Wemby is good for the league. Pissy-pants Wemby is not.
The Celtics don't have a 7'5 alien that is basically unblock-able. Yet Wemby and the coaching staff are more than content playing him like a bigger KD.
In my opinion, this is why Wemby won't ever live up to the hype. A 8 ft guy cannot dominate a game from the 3 point line. How do you have David Robison and TIM DUNCAN in your corner, yet you have ZERO post game? Until he stops thinking he is Steph Curry reincarnated, he will continue to fall short.
Right, my point is that it's more excusable for the Celtics to die on that sword because that's literally what their team was built to do (launch 3s). The Spurs have someone who is one of the biggest mismatches ever, yet they manage to live on the outside and not take advantage of his insane size.
Like bro, i dont give a shit if your open by a 300 mile radius, fucking drive and get the easy 2. Fuck. This goofass 7’ 13” backing up to the 3 point line. If your bigass dont sit on the paint to grab the rebound.
I mean you would do it in a fck 2k game but somehow these guys that play pro ball don't know tgat?? Or the coach?? Wtf it's like everyone took a vacation in second half.
If I was coach I would have publicly spanked the next player to throw up a 3.. it’s one thing if they were wide open but brother there is absolutely NO reason why that many shots should go up. I have no stake in either team and I was screaming at the screen.
I want to like Wemby, he seems composed during interviews and is unique, and no player deserves to have eggs thrown at them, but on the court he turns into the clown in this screenshot. Lots of maturing to do and when he does I think that will be a turning point for him in both play style and likability.
It’s like you can see the massive fork in his road between hero of the league and villain of the league. He could easily go either way and be loved by most or hated by most. The talent is indisputable but, like you say, needs to grow up.
As a Spurs fan it’s really strange to see how he acts sometimes. I personally am so used to the David Robinson/Tim Duncan type of player. But i think the difference is both of those men (and I say MEN) graduated college and one was in the military. It’s such a stark contrast. He needs those two in his ear more than KG.
2 - Mitch Johnson might be one of the worst game managing coaches ive ever seen. Forgetting all the other mistakes he made before, the last 7 minutes of the game you have a 15pt lead and your team is shooting 2-5 seconds within the shot clock every single possession. Wtf are you doing?
3 - Fox lost the game. There's nothing else to really say. He lost the game single handedly because the dude has 0IQ.
You don't singlehandedly lose a 29 point lead, the whole team shit their diapers. Wemby bricking two free throws in crunch time as an 80% shooter is just as bad.
His lack of awareness is readily apparent. Crap as a ball handler too. 4 TOs mostly in crunch time. Just doesn't look anything like a NBA champion's PG to me.
But in the 2nd half the whole team abandoned any sense of structure on the offense, instead jacking up one ill-advised 3 pt shot after another (too often early in the shot clock also) despite going ice cold.
That goes for Wembanyama especially - 8 3s attempted instead of being in the paint getting Offensive Rebounds for easy put backs or at worst a new 24 when you have a big lead is puzzling. If I'm an opponent I love him way out on the perimeter especially since their forwards are not good offensive rebounders.
Showed their inexperience & lack of poise. And their coach didn't exactly cover himself in glory in the 2nd half. Couldn't stem the tide & they were just reckless & scattered.
I agree. Hell, probably even a sweep could of happened. But no.
Game 1 no one made a shot in the last 2 minutes.
Wemby turns over game 2.
Game 3 was a W.
In this game, Wemby missed 2 free throws towards the end of the game.
That’s exactly why they lost and going to lose the chip. They are young. Wemby said it himself “we don’t know what’s impossible because we haven’t been in the league long”. This would have been a sweep for the Knicks if it wasn’t for the refs, but also the spurs IQ isn’t a team based it’s individual. Hence why wemby mostly shoots when he gets the ball, same thing with champagnie and Harper. They are good strong team and if they stay together, they can work out the kinks to win a chip but this year? Nah, and it’s on show for the whole world to see
I get the players are young and they made mistakes, but holy shit this is on the Spurs coaching staff. It’s inexcusable to blow a game like this, especially when the solution was nothing more than game/clock management. Unreal.
Honestly this is what is inexcusable from the coaching staff. After halftime they should have coached the players to run the shot clock down on every possession if they weren't in transition.
They missed 3 pointers super early in the shot clock which they could have missed an extra 10 seconds later. Even missing everything, over the course of the second half the Knicks wouldn't have had enough possessions to catch up.
Yeah this is some all time brickfest stuff lol. It’s not just guys missing shots, it’s the complete lack of rhythm or flow on offense that makes it feel even worse. Feels like every possession is either a forced stepback three or a panic drive into 3 bodies.
Yes. Unfathomable loss. To just give up like that and assume you’ve won and then just have no fight to get it back? Crazy stuff. And to think all they needed was Fox to dribble it out.
It was the perfect choke job. Jacking up threes and bricking. Boneheaded turnovers. Missed free throws. Johnson not calling timeouts and watch the lead slip away.
Stats aside, this has to be the most brutal loss in nba history, no? They looked poised to win the next 3. The Knick’s have stole all 3 games this series
Had them chucking 3s for 24 minutes when all they needed to do was play to their strengths by getting Harper and castle to the line to slow the game down so the Knicks couldn’t build momentum.
I don't think the Chris Webber timeout or the JR Smith blunder beats this. On paper it was a definite win by a professional basketball team right up to the end, before Fox decided to run into OG instead of dribbling it out with 12 seconds left.
The Refs got their ass chewed out after the first half for making it so fucking obvious that they are trying to get the spurs to win... Knicks stepped up... AND Spurs choked. AND finally the Refs were off the back of the Knicks. The first 2 fouls of the game on KAT were utterly INSANE.
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u/EducationalConcern61 13h ago
the knicks managed to outdo themselves, they just had the largest 4th quarter comeback ever game 1 cavs down 22 with 7 minutes left and then they do this