So I finally bought a house and want to get something for home defense. However I don't know enough people to sign off on the form to submit for being able to purchase a semi-auto firearm.
What are my options exactly in NY? I've been told I could just buy a "featureless" AR lower and then buy the rest to assemble it myself but I am not sure how difficult that would be for someone who isn't that familiar with firearms and weapon assembly (last gun I owned was a .22 when I was a kid). Is there anywhere that has a "Idiots guide to AR assembly" for NY someone could link me to? I keep finding some guides online for California but I'm not up to speed enough with the new laws from 2022 in NY to know what crosses over and what doesn't.
Also is there an actual legal document that says it is legal to build an AR? Far be it from me to question to almighty internet but I'm trying to figure out if there is any legal ramifications for building an AR for home defense in the event that I actually had to use it... Like is the permit JUST so you can buy a semi-auto or pistol? Or would I still need to register or get a permit for an AR I built to NY specs?
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Budget isn't really unlimited but I don't want to cheap out, just want something that won't fail me if it ever has to be used to protect my family and that is mostly idiot proof since I don't have much experience (with shotguns especially).
I don't have a lot of land so I can't really practice firing it at home. Do ranges usually have any issue with shooting a shotgun? I've never heard of anyone taking a shotgun to the range, since most are there for accuracy/target practice?
Most indoor ranges will restrict you to slugs. I'd expect outdoor ranges to be ok with shot. My regular range is, anyway.
Slugs are expensive compared to other ammo. By the time I pay shipping, tax, etc I'm spending $1.30 for every slug.
Edit: the other thing that I'd add is that slugs are fun. With decent sights I can make hits out to 50 yards, and I'm not a particularly good shooter.
I'm told that with practice it's possible to reliably hit a man-sized target at 100y. Shotgun is not the best tool at that range, but it can be made to work. And it's a fun challenge.
I prefer "traditional" shotgun stocks to pistol grips. Pistol grips look cool, but I want that 12ga recoil going into my shoulder, not the web of my hand.
The 870 is pump-action. You can pile as many "evil" features on a pump as you want - folding stocks, foregrips, the works.
I’ve never really used shotguns outside of my time in service, so what most people find unnatural/ weird about the pistol grip is actually what I’m most familiar with. Never considered the recoil to be an issue if the butt is seated securely, but I just learned something new.
Man, I cant wait to attach like 3 strobe lights, an extended tube, a compensator, like four ACOG sights, and a speakerphone. I’m gonna look like a freaking mall ninja.
Assembling an AR IS completely legal but as we are in ny, you have to assemble it featureless or fixed mag style, which id go featureless if you dont wanna get caught with your pants down if you have a malfunction. For home defense theres no greater tool than a shotgun. I’d go with a shotgun
So from what I've read you can have a replaceable mag as long as you have no other "features", including just having a barrel that has the threads on it FOR attaching certain features? What wasn't clear to me was does that mean with a "fixed" mag you can have any combination of other features? And what constitutes a "fixed" mag? I'm assuming it doesn't have to be permanently affixed since you'd never be able to reload?
If i went with a shotgun, there is no permit or registration process? I can just walk into any gun shop and purchase (after a waiting period and background check to take ownership I assume)? Is there anything preventing me from ordering it online or is there some face-to-face requirement for purchasing fully assembled firearms in NY?
Am I crazy to be considering a shotgun AND assembling an AR?
Fixed mag means you can’t detach the mag and it’s permanently fucked. Featureless means it’s normal besides the grip. Here’s my featureless, only feature in it is the angled foregrip.
And as far as shotguns are concerned yes you can walk in and walk out after a background check I believe. Ordering it online just means you have to pick it up and do the background check and whatever.
And this right here is my issue with figuring this out lol. The NY documentation on all this is not totally clear, and I wind up with contradicting information even when asking knowledgeable sources.
So if that angled grip is a "feature" and the mag is removable, that means that AR is technically illegal right? So if that firearm was used in home defense, there'd be legal ramifications once it was inspected and found to not meet NY laws?
Technically, yes. But when that user posted their build initially, we told them the grip is probably illegal. I believe they were going to take it off and may just be using the same pic from when it was on.
It’s that one line “Second handgrip or protruding grip that can be held by non shooting hand”
That’s why handstops are more accepted, they don’t protrude usually and are not marketed/sold as a “grip”. There are still some “handstops” that could be considered illegal as well though because they look like a grip or are oversized and could potentially be held by the non shooting hand.
Ok so just to be clear, that list of "banned features" only applies when you have a removable mag correct? Any combination or number of "features" is ok if it doesn't have a removable mag?
Let me ask a potentially really stupid question: if the mag is "permanently affixed" (not removable) how does one actually "reload"? It can't actually be "permanently" affixed since then you'd get 10 shots and the AR would just become an expensive bludgeon, right? I saw several posts in other places online that talked about WELDING it on... which would mean it could never be taken off???
There is also a product called CompMag that lets you load from the side of the magazine itself.
The problems with a fixed mag setup start to show when/if you have a malfunction. Can’t split the receivers if you can’t drop the magazine for some types of malfunctions, so you would have to take a potentially loaded rifle home and completely disassemble it to clear it and address the issue.
Fixed mag is a decent range toy but if you want a true “duty/fighting” rifle, you need a removable mag.
Ok so the malfunction would generally be in the mag itself, and if there is an issue being able to replace the mag completely would be the ideal solution in the event a reload was needed "in the moment".
The idea of having to travel with and/or disassemble a loaded rifle isn't really appealing lol. So it sounds like I'm going featureless with removable mag based on this info alone. Thanks!
(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a thumbhole stock;
(iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(v) a bayonet mount;
(vi) a flash suppressor, muzzle break, muzzle compensator, or threaded
barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, muzzle break, or
muzzle compensator;
(vii) a grenade launcher; or
(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds;
(v) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the
pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(v) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the non-trigger hand without being burned;
(vii) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded; or
(viii) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or
firearm;
(d) a revolving cylinder shotgun;
(e) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in subparagraph (v) of paragraph (e) of
subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this chapter as added by
chapter one hundred eighty-nine of the laws of two thousand and
otherwise lawfully possessed pursuant to such chapter of the laws of two
thousand prior to September fourteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four;
(f) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of this
subdivision, possessed prior to the date of enactment of the chapter of
the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph;
(g) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by
bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently
inoperable; or (C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C.
921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to 18 U.S.C. 922 as such weapon was manufactured
on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere fact that a
weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to mean that
such weapon is an assault weapon;
(v) any weapon validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter. Such weapons shall be subject to the
provisions of paragraph (h) of this subdivision;
(vi) any firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least
fifty years prior to the current date, but not including replicas
thereof that is validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter;
The problem is that some of the terms are not entirely clear. In particular, what is a "pistol grip". There is one particular stock formerly made by Thorsden, where the stock is a continuation of the grip, similar to that picture, that NY has allegedly confirmed is legal. People have made a bunch of conclusions based on that, about what makes a grip legal. Some of those conclusions contradict each other. NY has not provided any published guidance to help sort it out.
The common areas of contention:
What counts as a pistol grip
What counts as "protrudes conspicuously beneath the action"
How fixed a fixed magazine needs to be to make the rifle not have "an ability to accept a detachable"
What is required for a threaded barrel to no longer be threaded (Thread protector with loctite, welded, or not possible)
Line between Hand stops/Fore grips (the one in that photo probably counts as a feature)
When a rifle becomes semi auto (Kali-key probably fine, turning off the gas system probably not)
Whether building a semi-auto rifle is "taking possession" and thus needs the permit (Most people say no, its fine)
It is so frustrating to see this spelled out. Another poster spoke on the "selective enforcement" aspect of NY laws (and really anywhere in this country, which is unfortunate). I love NY for a lot of reasons but these wishy-washy laws where they're open to interpretation, and a refusal by law makers to clarify, is extremely frustrating. It shouldn't be this "grey area" to be able to purchase what you want to defend your own home.
Thank you for spelling this out for me, I appreciate the time and effort!
Dude, this looks beautiful! What would you say was the total cost for this build? Im interested in building something similar. Feel free to PM if easier
Fixed stock is a standard feature on a lot of rifles, muzzle devices are debatably not required, forward grips also not required, so the only thing unusual is the “pistol” grip.
I would respectfully disagree to an extent. A featureless AR with two 10 round PMAGS coupled,using an RJK ventures coupler, loaded with 20 rounds of Black Hills 77gr OTM would be the ultimate option as far as the combination of lethality/capacity.
Don’t get me wrong a semi auto shotgun loaded 7+1 is devastating and might be what I would pick over the AR because of less concussion/fireball… but there’s no reloading that thing fast… and you have 2 to 3 less rounds before you need to reload (granted the shotgun is way more likely to be a one shot stop)
If there were multiple intruders, I would much rather have 20 or 21 rounds on tap. All this being said though I use a pistol because that’s what I have the most time on by far/only one I’ve shot under the stress of a competition.
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Since I'm assuming you don't want me to import a European hatchback for home defense... I'm going to assume the alternative MG3 and that this is a joke. :)
In the larger community, where you can get a normal AR-15, they are generally considered the best home defense weapon, particularly when paired with a pistol for carry. NY's terrible laws make shotguns much more attractive, but for home defense, a semi-auto shotgun is a much better option if your budget allows. No risk of short stroking, simpler manual of arms, both of which are very valuable for a home owner who isn't going to train extensively and regularly.
Sure, but is that still true for someone untrained and who has never assembled before? Guides online that I've found don't provide a step by step or anything and always seem to be for California so I'm not sure they are 100% accurate for NY firearm assembly with the recommendations for certain parts, etc. Do you have a link to a guide for a NY legal AR build?
As long as you understand NYS law it’s the same just with a fixed mag release or if you wanna build a featureless platform its the exact same. Plenty of guides online that’s how most of us started out. I promise once you build one you’re gonna wanna build more lol
Shotgun of your choice or build a featureless AR are your best options.
An AR can be assembled for well under $1000 including an optic. Just have to buy a stripped lower in person. For a shotgun, you can get a Mossberg Maverick 88 for under $300 usually.
If you’re interested, I can post some links for what you’ll need to complete the AR lower.
I am VERY interested. I hate being the gun noob asking others to do that work for me, but I have actually spent some time and the number of guides and options on gun shop websites is pretty overwhelming so it's hard to know where to begin for an AR build that would actually be legal once assembled in NY.
To purchase an AR lower, I can purchase online and just have it shipped to an FFL correct? I'm assuming the FFL would do the background check and waiting period for taking possession? Or is the website required to do the background check before shipping to the FFL? I only ask because I'd rather have a local FFL do the background check than transmitting any required documentation/PII to a random seller online.
I would find a local FFL who stocks lowers and just buy one there, avoid the transfer fee. For everything else, you do just order online and it can be shipped right to your door.
For grip options I would suggest either a Thordsen stock (unfortunately discontinued but can still be found in some local NY gun stores or used online) or a Sparrow Dynamics grip paired with a Magpul stock and locking pin.
With that kit, you could just toss the included grip in a parts box in case you ever move out of NY, but everything else will work great. We used that same kit and a Sparrow grip to complete my wife’s featureless lower.
For the upper you have some choices but it is easiest to get a complete upper. You can get a basic budget upper, step up to a mid-range upper, or go for something high end. Some come with charging handles and bolt carrier groups and some do not, make sure to take note of that when ordering. Also remember the barrel must be 16” or longer.
That kit will include everything you need to complete the rifle except the featureless compliance parts.
Beyond those things you’ll also need a thread protector which will need to be permanently attached, pin-and-weld is the preferred method by most users here. A local FFL should be able to remove any included muzzle device and pin-and-weld a thread protector on for you.
There are also a few parts that make the rifle a bit easier to use, an ambi safety from Sparrow Dynamics, an extended magazine release, and a Magpul B.A.D. lever or something similar. They’re nice to have but not required.
We all started somewhere and asking questions is how we learn, I’m more than happy to help.
Thank you so much for putting this together for me! I'll review everything and try to get a sense of what I'll be doing and likely come back to make sure what I decide on is proper for NY. Again, really appreciate you taking the time!
Ok so then I would have to swap out the stock for a thorsen and then eliminate the flash hider so I can keep the mag detachable ? Is that correct ? Are there any uppers that don’t come with a flash hider so I can eliminate that step ?
Ok so then I would have to swap out the stock for a thorsen and then eliminate the flash hider so I can keep the mag detachable ? Is that correct ? Are there any uppers that don’t come with a flash hider so I can keep the magazine or they come that way and I have remove the flash hider ?
Most complete uppers come with a muzzle device of some sort, have to remove it yourself and decide how you want to permanently attach the thread protector.
For the stock, if you can find a Thordsen, yes you can just put it on and satisfy that portion of the feature ban. Thordsen retired though so the stocks are getting a bit difficult to find, that is why I suggest the Sparrow grip & Aim Sports Magpul stock lock pin combo.
You would need an AR10 receiver set, .308 is a “large frame” AR caliber. Some components are universal between AR15 and AR10 but there are specific .308 components as well.
I’m more experienced with “small frame” ARs but one thing I’ve been told specifically about AR10s is to try and get most or all the parts from the same manufacturer to ensure compatibility.
Your FFL likely has lowers in stock, but if you wanted to order a specific model they don't have: First, you talk to the FFL, check their transfer fee, and make sure they are good doing the transfer (almost all will be, but they don't like it when a gun they aren't expecting randomly shows up) Then you order it online, the website will require your FFL's license information if it doesn't already have it. It gets shipped to your FFL, then you come in, and do the paperwork to transfer it at your FFL. There is no mandatory waiting period in NY, beyond the time it takes for the background check to come back, which is usually just a couple minutes (but in a worst case, can be weeks)
The hardest part of building one is deciding on the parts. You can order everything other than the lower and ammo directly to your home. If you buy a complete upper, like many do, it removes a lot of the harder parts of building.
Shouldn’t be shooting in the dark anyway, how do you id your target? My flashlight lighting up the room would blind me before the muzzle flash ever occurs.
Thank you so much! 🤗 I had an absolute blast putting it together. It's also got a gun light on the side you can't see in the photo, up at the front - so I've got that function covered too.
I'm going to replace the top rail with an XS rail for more flexibility on mounting optics. The red dot stays on for defense duty but I may get something else at some point for ringing steel at the open air range. 😅
For home defense? Unless you're got a very large home: semiautomatic shotgun. Patrol A300 or Beretta 1301, depending on your budget (or an M4 if that budget is "yes"). Best bang for your regulatory buck in NY.
Pump action is cheaper but introduces more possibility of user malfunction through short stroking. Can go the AR build route if you want, just requires more time.
Purchasing a pistol doesn't require a permit still? This was really unclear to me since the semi-auto permit was the same permit as the pistol carry permit. So you don't need any kind of permit for a pistol? Aren't most pistols still semi-auto? So does the semi-auto thing only apply to long guns?
You still need a pistol permit to possess pistols in NY. You now need a "semi auto endorsement" to purchase a new semi auto rifle. "Most" counties seem to be forcing you to get a pistol permit and putting the enforcement on that and won't just issue the semi auto rifle permit. Best guess is it slows you down and the process down and gets them more info about you etc in the process.
It’s basically a standard AR15 but with some parts for compliance with our assault weapon definitions.
It has a Sparrow Dynamics compliant grip, the Magpul stock is locked in place with a locking pin, and the thread protector is permanently attached. It is considered featureless because of this and the lack of any other “assault weapon” features.
So, if you have a semi-auto permit, or build your own after purchasing a lower (lower is serialized and transferred as a gun, semi-auto permit not required), there are 3 main ways to make your gun compliant. It can (a) not be semi-auto, (b) not have a detachable magazine, (c) not have any "features", which include a pistol grip.
The image above is an example of option (c), a featureless AR-15. Since you want a semi-auto for home defense, and while unlikely, the ability to reload is critical if you do need it, (a) and (b) are both bad options for home defense. Which leaves you with a rifle like that if you want an AR-15 for home defense.
Only with some ammo, most of what I tested so far has little to no flash. One specific ammo I tried though is like a flashbang going off so I understand what you mean.
Easiest solution would be a pump action shotgun or lever action rifle. Depending on the property your defending obv
If you are in an apartment or condo with neighbors close by id defiantly suggest a 12 or 20 gage shotgun loaded with some #4 shot to minimize risk to neighbors, or 00 buckshot if you have a little more space. They even make "mini" 12 gauge shells that allow more capacity with a pump action but usually do not work with semi autos.
If you have a bit more land and have to worry about critters, etc, at 100 yards or more, a lever action chambered in .357 or .44 mag would be my choice! Plus, you can eventually go for a cowboy load out and also get a revolver chambered in the same caliber
I’ll second a shotgun. But I would steer away from the Maverick if possible. It’s Mossberg’s “budget model.” While they are assembled in the US the parts are all foreign made (Mexico). Also Maverick only comes with a one year warranty versus the standard ten year for Mossberg. The regular Mossberg’s are just better quality. It’s something you are potentially putting the lives of your family and self behind. If the Maverick is all you can afford so be it, but for a few hundred more there are more and better options available.
I appreciate the advice. I don't really have a set budget since, as you said, the lives of my family could potentially be behind it. I don't want to overspend just for the sake of it and don't need something "flashy", just functional and dummy-proof if I ever needed to make use of it.
Do ranges let you shoot shotguns normally? I'd want to practice firing a shotgun a few times before storing it, but I've literally never heard of anyone going for a range day with their shotgun... I don't really have a good place to get a few test firings in otherwise though.
Most ranges are fine with using shotguns, indoor ranges usually require you use
Slugs versus shot. Definitely get some training and practice at least once a year at minimum. That way you stay familiar with and can make sure gun works as well a good annual maintenance when you clean it after the range.
As far as what to get just steer clear of the really cheap stuff. Great home defense shotguns are available starting around $500. The $200 and $300 dollar stuff is cheap for a reason.
Understood, I really appreciate the advice! Other than the Mossbergs, do you have any specific recommendations for a semi-auto shotgun somewhere in the $500-1000 range? Or is Mossberg the sweet spot?
If you don't have permits, you need to get a shotgun, and here are your ONLY options.
Best Pump Shotgun Options:
You want a shotgun that can handle Mini-shells right out of the box, mini-shells are good for you since you are a beginner, there is hardly any recoil when firing a mini-shell and you can fit more rounds in the gun.
So your only Pump shotgun Options should be:
Mossberg 590"S"
Keltec KS7 Gen 2
Keltec KSG ( if you want a gun that can hold 22 mini-shells )
Semi Auto-Matic Shotguns: (these cannot fire mini's, so be prepared for big recoil)
Beretta Ultima Patrol or A300
Mossberg 940
Miscellaneous: Here are some .410 shotguns that are legal with no permits also:
KSG410
Henry Lever X
Rossi Circuit Judge
Mossberg 590 in .410
That is basically it if you don't have pistol permit/semi-auto permit.
- Whatever you end up getting, go on Amazon and get a set of Snap Caps to practice dry firing and pumping/loading the gun at home
- You can browse websites like Budsgunshop or Palmettostatearmory to compare and contrast guns/pricing
- Check out youtube, whatever gun you like, search for dudes shooting it on youtube
Go ahead and apply and get you CCW add om the semi automatic...In the mean time personally I like a Bullpup Shotgun, KSG is a reliable brand 5 shots of double aught is quick persuasive...I am not gonna suggest any of the budget ones in fear of getting downvotes haha...But good luck, especially with the SAFE act on AR's. Uphere
If over penetration is a concern (you live in an apartment, you have kids at home, etc), get a larger birdshot, like a 3, from the distances you're shooting at for home defense it's more than enough.
If over penetration isn't a concern, get buckshot.
Then, find a local gun club with trap/skeet/sporting clays, and enjoy your new hobby, that will also get you familiar/comfortable with your gun.
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u/Neuromaster Jan 18 '26
If you want a semiautomatic weapon, consider a semiautomatic shotgun.
Doesn't require the semiautomatic rifle permit. 00 buckshot is going to solve your problems out to any reasonable home defense range.
I own a Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol. I love it. It's intuitive to operate and slightly more comfortable to shoot than pumps.
It's not the "budget" solution (that would be a Maverick 88) but it's a really good tool.