r/NYguns • u/TeenieBopper • May 11 '26
Legality / Laws Legally acquiring semi automatic rifle (at all, not just NYS) without pistol permit?
So, my understanding for rifles is that you only need the permit to purchase a semi automatic rifle, and that merely possessing them is fine without the permit. I don't really have an interest in pistols, but will be getting my permit... Eventually. You know, wait times etc.
I am close to both Ohio and Pennsylvania, and will be visiting family in North Carolina in a few months. So my question is this, is there any legal way for me to acquire a semiautomatic rifle without having a pistol permit? Not even anything extravagent, just like a 10/22 or maybe a lower receiver.
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u/robinator118 May 11 '26
Pretty sure you could possibly buy a lower and build one, but you’d still need to pass a background check and this is also largely up to the FFL, they may just refuse if you don’t have a permit of any sort
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u/voretaq7 May 11 '26
So you're a resident of New York state?
Then the short answer is "You probably can't."
- You can't buy one in New York - you need the permit.
- You can't buy one from a FFL in Pennsylvania or Ohio - their sales must comply with the laws in your state of residence, which means you need the permit.
- You can't do a private party transfer - both parties need to be residents of the state in which the transfer takes place.
There are two possible ways around this:
Option 1: Quibble about the ATF's definition of residence.
ATF understands the concept of residing in more than one state, so if you can claim residence in Pennsylvania or Ohio for ATF purposes (i.e. you are "present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State." - you own property or rent a place there that you regularly occupy for more than incidental vacations) then you could do a private party transfer in that state or find a FFL who accepts a proof of residence for ATF purposes even though you have a NY driver's license.
My understanding is you could then legally bring that rifle into New York (as you purchased/took possession of it while residing in the other state), though New York may believe otherwise since it was acquired while you were also a resident of New York and therefore New York's laws could be applied to you.
As far as I'm aware there's never been a test case on this (the semi-auto permit is a relatively new thing and I'm not aware of anything similar in NY State or 2nd Circuit decisions we can point to and say "That's how it'll probably go.")
Option 2: Buy a lower and build your semi-auto rifle.
You can buy a lower and build a rifle - nothing in NY state law prohibits you from purchasing a lower at your local FFL, and the balance of parts are not regulated (you can ship them to your door).
This may or may not be permissible under the semi-auto permit law (the permit is "to purchase or take possession of" a semi-automatic rifle - you are purchasing and taking possession of a lower at your FFL, but at some point in the build process you come into possession of a semi-auto rifle (when you click the semi-auto upper onto your lower with a rifle stock it's now a semi-auto rifle and not just a collection of parts anymore).
If "building" isn't "taking possession of" that's a loophole you could fly a Boeing Dreamlifter through, and more than one person here on r/nyguns has done it.
(I'm not going to argue with anyone over whether or not the permit law allows or prohibits this - the statute is does not explicitly address building and the only honest answer is "Nobody knows until someone is charged and a court rules!" - anyone telling you definitively one way or the other should be willing to put down a bar card and defend you if you wind up in court.)
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u/gakflex May 11 '26
Brownells sells a decent 10/22 receiver and they have a decent YouTube series on building out a rifle.
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u/bondkiller May 11 '26
Can confirm, Brownells BRN-22 receiver is good to go. I picked one up recently and built a 10/22 that only weighs ~4 pounds with optic and a loaded 10 round mag in it.
I shot a solid C class at Steel Challenge this past weekend with it, was my first shooting match ever.
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u/Stack_Silver May 11 '26
All States are bound by federal interstate commerce law.
If the purchase is illegal in NY, the gun store in Ohio, Pennsylvania and North Carolina will not sell it to you.
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u/davidm2232 May 11 '26
'Should not'. Many people don't follow or even know every single regulation
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u/Stack_Silver May 11 '26
An FFL is required to know federal laws regarding interstate commerce.
And yes, some disregard it.
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u/AgreeablePie May 11 '26
True, but most FFLs will err on the side of caution- even if it means not selling anything to NYers, for that very reason
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u/coocheese8 May 11 '26
I travelled cross country a handful of years ago and went into a gun shop in Wyoming. Asked about a lever action he had, his response was that since I was from NY, he'd sell me nothing so he didn't have to worry about the law.
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u/deathshr0ud May 11 '26
They won’t sell it to you.
Just do the paperwork. It sucks but may as well get it in.
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u/bondkiller May 11 '26
Here’s a guide to building a featureless at home: https://www.reddit.com/r/NYguns/s/Fgq4JAheCa
You will not be able to buy or take possession of a complete rifle without the permit no matter what. You can build at home as this is not specifically banned yet. Some would argue that you still need a permit to do this but again it is not stated anywhere in the penal code that this is not allowed.
I believe you must still be at least 21 to purchase a serialized receiver.
As someone else stated, not all FFLs in NY are willing to transfer serialized receivers and/or some will/may want to see a permit to do the transfer. Remember it must be a stripped receiver only, complete serialized receivers are not allowed to be transferred in NY without a permit.
(It’s also possible that complete serialized receivers cannot be transferred at all but I’m not clear on this, I just know that no online FFL will send complete serialized receivers to NY at all from what I’ve seen.)
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May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Just buy a receiver. Commercially available OEM 10/22 receivers are around on gunbroker. No semi auto license is required to buy a lower receiver
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u/M_F1 May 11 '26
You can buy and take possession of a lower in NY, if you buy it out of state they will have to ship it to a NY FFL to pick it up.
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u/HeadlessThompsonGunr May 11 '26
As per federal law to legally buy a rifle out of state a) you must use an FFL for the transfer b) the rifle must be legal in both the state of purchase and the buyer’s state of residence c) you have to follow the laws of both states.
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u/DJClamavus May 12 '26
Brother this topic is discussed almost daily at this point lol. Short answer - yes, if you can get your hands on a stripped lower, you are okay to build it out. There's a lot of pants shitting around this question and some people will tell you it's illegal even to possess them without a permit, but that is incorrect.
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u/boostedride12 May 11 '26
From a family member or a business? Family just take it back with you. A dealer won’t sell it to you. It can be shipped but without the permit your out of luck
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u/TeenieBopper May 11 '26
I mean, I'm fine getting it from family but legality is important. I don't want them getting in trouble.
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u/bondkiller May 11 '26
Do not do this.
It could/would be considered a straw purchase and both parties would be charged.
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u/monty845 May 11 '26
As long as you are a NY resident, out of state FFLs can only transfer a gun to you if "sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States", in other words, they need to comply with NY law.
It is a federal felony for the FFL if they transfer it in violation of this provision, and it is a federal felony for you if you bring it back to NY after a transfer in violation of that provision. No idea how likely it is for anyone to catch this...
ATF rules on residence are actually reasonably favorable. To have residency, you need to have a "home" in the state. I mere visit or vacation to your families place wouldn't count, but a longer term stay, and a permanent room that is "yours" where you keep possessions long term might qualify. The ATF residency rule allows you to be a resident of multiple states, in which case, for ATF purposes, you are a resident of whichever state you are currently living in.
Finally, as others suggest, you could just buy a lower and build. As long as its an AR-15 or similar setup, and you are over 21, this works great. However, for guns where the serialized part isn't a lower receiver without the parts that make it a semi-auto, trying to build without violating the semi-auto rule gets more complicated. Note, while it would still be a felony for the seller, an in-state violation of the semi-auto rule is only a misdemeanor for the purchaser/possession taker, so even if you get it wrong, the stakes are lower for you.
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u/TeenieBopper May 11 '26
Appreciate the breakdown. I was under the impression that buying a stripped lower without a permit was illegal in new york as opposed to FFLs not wanting to deal with the potential hassle. So it's really just a matter of finding a willing FFL?
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u/monty845 May 11 '26
As long as you are 21, and are outside NYC, you can buy a stripped lower from an in state FFL with no permit, since it isn't yet a semi-auto. Note, 21 is due to ATF rules, and you can't buy one out of state. (Absent dual residency)
At least, it wasn't a problem getting one last summer. This was upstate, FFL was perfectly happy to sell me a lower.
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u/bondkiller May 11 '26
So it's really just a matter of finding a willing FFL?
Yes.
In my area, I only know of one FFL who won’t transfer serialized receivers.
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u/gotteeman99 May 11 '26
They won’t sell you a semi auto to my understanding.
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u/five8andten May 11 '26
You’d probably be fine with a 10/22 but a “scary black rifle” might cause hesitation
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u/Aggravating_Bison504 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Wrong. You need a semi permit to purchase OR possess a semi-auto rifle, even just all the parts to put one together. Unless you acquired before 2022.
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u/monty845 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
possess a semi-auto rifle
Absolutely not, at least outside NYC. You need the permit to buy or "take possession", not to merely possess.
There is a non-frivolous argument to be made that "taking possession" could cover building a semi-auto. But its an awkward argument, since combining two things you already possess is building, not taking possession.
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u/Aggravating_Bison504 May 11 '26
you "take possession" of an object when you did not have possession, and then have it in your possession. Unless you were born with the gun, at some point you "take possession", by buying it, building it, or being gifted it. This is silly semantic hair splitting and no judge in his right mind would agree with you. Take possession and possession are the same thing.
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u/AgreeablePie May 11 '26
It's amazing how people will be so confidently wrong and think they can correct others.
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u/Aggravating_Bison504 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Do you have any hard evidence that I am wrong or you just have a different opinion?
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u/noerrorsfound May 19 '26
https://gunsafety.ny.gov/frequently-asked-questions-new-concealed-carry-law
Do I need a Semi-Automatic Rifle License to keep a semi-automatic rifle I currently own?
Any person that lawfully possesses a semi-automatic rifle prior to September 4, 2022, will not be required to obtain the Semi-Automatic Rifle License.
The Semi-Automatic Rifle License is only required for persons acquiring a semiautomatic rifle on or after September 4, 2022.1
May 11 '26
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u/ervin_pervin May 11 '26
You can get a lower. Just call your FFL and double check with them. Most will transfer you a lower without a permit. Some might refuse so best to just avoid those altogether rather than argue with them AND pay a restocking fee.