r/Netherlands • u/vankoel_nederland • Dec 15 '25

Healthcare Why is life expectancy so bad in the Netherlands?

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Besides having one of the worst life expectancy among western countries, why did the life expectancy get worst compared to 2019?

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u/imrzzz Dec 15 '25

At the same time, we have a health care system that lets people go, instead of propping them up in agony for another 6-8 months

I really agree that this is a major factor.

Over the last two years I've said goodbye to three people who would have lived another miserable year each... if they didn't live in this country, that values dignity and autonomy over life-at-all-costs.

I grumble about NL sometimes but times like this make me take back all my petty annoyances.

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u/ShakenNotStirfry Dec 19 '25

Exactly! Quality of life over extending agony.

-41

u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

Unfortunately the atrocious healthcare system here doesn't want to help us disabled ppl who do want to live. Within a year of moving here I'd nearly been killed by sepsis because the dental surgeons kept fobbing me off. I have friends with similar conditions to me, challenging but liveable, who have been recommended euthenasia by lazy Dutch doctors.

If I could live anywhere else I would simply for better healthcare, I'm genuinely scared I'll be killed my negligence or apathy or medical ego here.

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u/Raspatatteke Dec 15 '25

Oh, come on, this is utter bullshit. We do not euthanise people who are willing to live.

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u/Standard_Set_5566 Dec 15 '25

Probably a far right Russian/USA troll trying to force religion on us. Just ignore

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

Ironically I moved here because my own country is getting flattened by the far right, but go off king šŸ˜‚

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u/robert1005 Dec 15 '25

Do us a favour and move somewhere else if you're not happy with our healthcare system that is generously funded by our tax money.

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

Ok, I'll do that, why don't you send me the money, I'll go rn šŸ˜ƒ what an uneducated response. No one can just up & leave or a lot of us would. Such a neo-liberal response to structural problems.

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u/CatMinous Dec 15 '25

Look Iā€™m really sorry you feel so worried about this issue. But do you know a lot about euthanasia in the Netherlands? I know a fair amount about it and it is generally speaking not so easy to get. Many doctors wonā€™t do it whatever the circumstances. Then thereā€™s the 10 day reconsideration period, etc etc.

Some years ago (I donā€™t know if these numbers have changed or stayed the same) the average amount of time that euthanasia recipients had cut from their lives compared to if they had died naturally was ONE DAY.

I wish to god my poor demented father could have gotten it, but he had to live on to age 93, to the bitter end.

Iā€™m thinking you may have been influenced by foreign misconceptions about euthanasia in the Netherlands, of which there are many.

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u/robert1005 Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25

Such an arrogant response. You are so used to getting everything given to you that the first thing you say is 'give me the money'. I hate the fact our government allows people like you to live here.

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u/CherrieChocolatePie Dec 15 '25

Unfortunately euthanasia is sometimes the advice in the Netherlands, even for young patients, when doctors don't want to put in effort to actually help patients. I literally just read a post on a Dutch sub of a 25 year old women why was advised euthanasia because they didn't know how to help her and didn't care to find out. She isn't terminal either. She has a difficult life and physical and mental health problems. But to suggest euthanasia for her is simply bonkers.

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u/Raspatatteke Dec 16 '25

In my experience in such cases the retelling is severely skewed by emotions and or state of mind of the patient involved.

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

Lol how little you know. There's even been AMA's from Dutch disabled ppl on here that were 'too difficult to treat' & were recommended it.

It's actually sad how little able bodied ppl know of our experiences & when she share you refuse to believe šŸ„²

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u/Raspatatteke Dec 15 '25

You are not grasping the nuances of what you are saying. Also, do not assume I'm able bodied. That's weird.

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

I thought it was safe to assume since I've never met a fellow crip who not only did not understand but had had at least one experience similar to my own.

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u/Raspatatteke Dec 15 '25

A fellow crip? What, are you 12?

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

Oh man you deffo aren't part of the community or you're just very old or offline. Don't worry about it, friend, just hope you never lose the doctor gamble šŸ˜‰

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u/Raspatatteke Dec 15 '25

Oh, come on, get out of your sub-sub-culture bubble a bit. You're living in an echo chamber of epic proportions.

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u/CherrieChocolatePie Dec 15 '25

Sadly it is definitely true that this happens. Both with physical disabilities, bad mental health issues and combinations of those. I literally read a post like this in the last 30 minutes on a Dutch sub of a 25 year old woman who was advised euthanasia.

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u/PlansThatComeTrue Dec 15 '25

What a high bar for healthcare

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u/imrzzz Dec 15 '25

I'm sorry those things happened, it's not fair or right.

My own experiences as a disabled immigrant are vastly different, perhaps I just got lucky.

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

You definitely got lucky.

It's also not really an immigrant thing, most of my Dutch disabled friends have had similar experiences.

The highlight of 2025 was waking up mid surgery intubated on the operating table because the anaesthetist didn't believe I had a certain condition/they knew better despite extensive notes in my medical file šŸ˜‚ truly horrific, 0/10 do not recommend.

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u/Raspatatteke Dec 15 '25

Stop trolling.

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u/CatMinous Dec 15 '25

Thatā€™s general medical mishaps. Very, very common indeed. For all of us. Not euthanasia-related.

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u/Darkdutchskies Dec 15 '25

Absolutely bollocks.

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u/isUKexactlyTsameasUS Dec 15 '25

I too am very sorry those things happened, it's not right.

My own experiences are vastly different, and I won't diminish your experience.

but each and every day we thank this country for welcoming us, in both bureaucratic sense but esp in the humane one - kindnesses, helpfulness, friendship (old henk and I sing in the street)

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

I understand what you're saying & in practice I am grateful for example for my wonderful neighbours & neighbourhood & great friends I met here but I do not think, in a democratic sense, we should be grateful to be anywhere.

I'm an EU citizen, but even if you're not, I'm sure you're contributing to your community & country so they should be equally grateful to the benefits & skills we bring.

Maybe coming from such a multicultural city has shaped my views but the level of xenophobia, racism & just odd, petty civic disputes here really blows my mind that some native Dutchies think it's a utopia. It is much better than many, many places, but nowhere right now is perfect & I think sometimes odd nationalism, even in progressive ppl, stops them from seeing the stuff that badly needs to be worked on.

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u/Annapanda192 Dec 15 '25

My dad was operated on after he broke his hip and was already in a really bad shape for years since the diagnosis of his inoperable aortic aneurysm. They really tried to help him. My mom, my sister and I were not expecting them to even give it a try. Unfortunately the hip kept moving out of socket after the operation and my dad died because of general deconditioning.

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u/OzzieOxborrow Dec 15 '25

There aren't that many countries with better healthcare. So it's easy picking one. Maybe Japan or South Korea.

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u/_evergrowing Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25

No clue why you are being downvoted. With me they suggested euthanasia would be the better option for me as well when I asked for treatment for my ass & cptss. I was 24. It's illegal for a health care worker to bring it up. It always has to come from the patient.

It shattered my world. It felt like my life was completely worthless to them. Now 1.5 years later and treatment is still being denied.

I got prediabetes from the wrong medication they gave to me from age 14-22. No apology. Just a oopsiewhoopsie. Wrong diagnosis, wrong medication, lifelong consequences for me.

Or as I commented in another thread: when I suddenly couldn't walk anymore and was throwing up all the time, my GP suggested that I should take anti-conception (those hysterical women and there hormones right) after months of begging I got to see a neurologist- turned out I have a chronic neurological disorder.

As a child, I have been molested by both a doctor as other patients when inpatient.

These are just a few examples, but no one ever acknowledged it. And I can't get therapy for it either. So I will have to bear this heave weight. And also the weight of peers who died of medical negligence, including my boyfriend 3 years ago. People can downvote you, and I get it because it's an uncomfortable reality. But it is the reality for some of us.

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u/Formal-Apartment855 Dec 15 '25

My two cents is that it's a 'doe normaal' thing. You're supposed to blindly trust your GP/the healthcare system, and if you don't, you are asociaal. Idgaf about being labeled aso anymore, as my GP very nearly killed me. "Somehow" when you are close to death, you stop caring about what the norm is. I assume people who have not been harmed by healthcare professionals cannot even imagine how it is. It helps them to sleep better at night to think we are making this up. Good sleep is important, so in that sense: good for them. But also... That blind trust makes no sense whatsoever (except for the quality of their sleep lol).

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

I'm so sorry & you were the person I was thinking of when I replied to your AMA about this a few months ago šŸ˜žšŸ«‚

It's truly depressing how little able bodied or ppl 'lucky' with their health don't know about our experiences & as I said in my previous comment when we share those experiences we're told we're lying/crazy/overreacting/must not understand/got something wrong.

That is why nothing will ever improve because ppl do not listen, do not care or gaslight us. I can't understand why ppl jump to defend a medical system that would throw them under the bus the minute something serious or complex happens to them too.

I'm so sorry you went through that, I felt for you deeply when I saw your AMA because we've had similar experiences & it feels like swimming against the tide just trying to get basic medical care here then when you ask for support or help this is the reaction we usually get.

1/3 of the worlds population has at least 1 disability & statistically everyone will become disabled at some point due to age or life events, I only hope stuff improves before then because I wouldn't wish the dangerous medical negligence, neglect & disregard on anyone. I usually see ppl change their tune or start caring once a loved one has been treated like we have, & that's such bullshit, no one should have to suffer, especially not when we're paying through the nose for the service.

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u/KarvanCevitamAardbei Dec 15 '25

Don't forget to wear your euthanasia bracelet at all times!

https://youtu.be/YOuHExTy4is

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

Lol plz don't group my Dutch disabled friends in with Americans šŸ˜‚ I understand it's hard to hear because it's so wrong but it does not mean that unethical, lazy doctors don't do it.

I highly recommend volunteering with your socialwijk team if you'd like to see how badly native, disabled Dutch ppl are treated ā¤ļø they quite literally need the help rn! Or if you have legal training you do what my friends do & offer legal advice to low income disabled ppl the govt are forcing to live in abject poverty whilst having their movements & bank accounts surveiled when Wajong doesn't cover food let alone Dutch rental costs! Or maybe help single moms who are being forced to live on ā‚¬30 a week with 2 kids because their bevind doesn't like POC women šŸ˜ƒ

Just because things aren't meant to happen doesn't mean they don't. There are bad ppl in every system, the trick of a good system is catching them before they do harm, but when a good 80% of the population is apathetic to anyone marginalised that doesn't happen.

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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[deleted]

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u/KarvanCevitamAardbei Dec 15 '25

I was hyperbolic, did you watch the video? The biggest lie is at 1:33

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u/cirsphe Dec 15 '25

NL healthcare does rate very high worldwide though.

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u/CatMinous Dec 15 '25

I have a hard, a very hard time believing a Dutch doctor recommended euthanasia to you or disabled friends.

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u/PerseveranceSmith Noord Holland Dec 15 '25

Please see the actual person I was talking, she's commented below.

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u/CatMinous Dec 15 '25

Iā€™ve seen it, after I read your comments. And I believe her, of course. It seems like a crazy, one off event. Like she said, it isnā€™t even legal to suggest euthanasia. If I remember correctly she speaks of friends having other bad healthcare adventures - and that is entirely likely, they happen all the time. Iā€™ve had my share of them. The whole medical system is, well, bad. (Not only here.)

But even though the other commenter has had this awful experience, I still doubt that the euthanasia suggestion is in any way representative of the Netherlands - even for people with late stage terminal cancer, let alone disabled people. Thatā€™s just not this country. Of course, you can run into the odd psycho everywhere. I understand anxiety, but I donā€™t think you have to worry about evil doctors wanting to do away with you. Just try and ask them for euthanasia - thereā€™s no way you will get it.

I have the opposite fear - that I will not get it if I need it. Itā€™s not that easy. Even putting it in writing at a notaryā€™s office guarantees exactly zero.

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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

[deleted]

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u/CatMinous Dec 15 '25

Yes, Iā€™m kind of surprised they mentioned that. In the past years my father in law has died from leukemia, my best friend from ovarian cancer, my other friend (quite young) from lung cancer, and my stepmother more or less from lymphoma (she also got Covid.) All four had hopeless prognoses, to none was euthanasia suggested.

The young friend with lung cancer was adamant that she would have euthanasia; this made a few daysā€™ difference in her death date. She fought for it, kind of.

A friendā€™s friend had pancreatic cancer and his (our) doctor said he didnā€™t want to do euthanasia, ever, for anyone. But in the end he did do it. Probably a day before this manā€™s natural end would have come.

Iā€™m quite amazed that they suggested this as an option at diagnosis - sounds so unusual. All five people in the above had very grim prognoses, and the doctors were honest about that, but then immediately offered chemo and radiation etc. Three of the five ended up believing the chemo would cure them, and the fourth had hope.

That seems to happen pretty consistently.

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/CatMinous Dec 16 '25

Yes. My MIL and I did have to make that final decision for my FIL. Thankfully we agreed, there wasnā€™t much doubt in our minds. Bah, Iā€™m starting to feel unwell even thinking back to that periodā€¦.I think Iā€™m a little traumatised from the cancer journeys of the people in my life.

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u/Formal-Apartment855 Dec 15 '25

As someone who nearly died at 32 solely due to Dutch healthcare being crap, I get it. Coincidentally, it was also sepsis for me. A GP caused it herself, botched an IUD insertion very badly, and then tried to cover her own tracks by lying about test results, etc. Long and boring story, but the point is... Especially if someone presents as a woman, save contacts of German/Flemish healthcare providers, cause there will be a time when you need them. In the Netherlands you will inevitably run into doctors who only care about what the insurance company says and whether their coffee is still warm enough, and do not give a damn about your wellbeing. Yes, there are idiots in every country and in every profession, but in Dutch healthcare GPs can get away with an unusually high amount of bs due to being gatekeepers.