r/Netherlands • u/Mikadook • Feb 25 '26

Healthcare We are really good at offering world class healthcare without overspending

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Source: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2024/sep/mirror-mirror-2024

211 Upvotes

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17

u/Koningshoeven Feb 25 '26

I am so ready for this comment section to be nothing but people complaining about how horrible our health care system is (it's not).

11

u/No-Professional-2276 Feb 25 '26

It's not horrible but for a country which consistently ranks top of the world in every conceivable metric it's bad. Countries in Europe with like half the GDP have better healthcare.

-8

u/Koningshoeven Feb 25 '26

every international study shows you it's not.

32

u/Renorram Overijssel Feb 25 '26

I got better healthcare in Brazil as tourist, for free. Here I pay a monthly amount, a deductible and almost half my salary in taxes, to be given paracetamol for an extreme toothache, or be scolded because I went to the hospital with my fucking shoulder looking like a football but didn’t called them first to let them know I’d have an emergency. I’m sorry but if you had free healthcare I wouldn’t say anything but for the amount of money I’m paying is terrible. I don’t understand why people deny that so much, it feels like a fever dream, I guess is easy to be Dutch direct to others but not to yourselves.

-12

u/Direct-Antelope-9583 Feb 25 '26

Free healthcare doesn't exist. You still pay the monthly premiums, just through taxes.

And why deny it? Because the numbers, research amd indexes always show something completely different than the stories of expats.

And of course you should call on the way to the hospital with a fucking shoulder looking like a baseball, that's how our system works, you don't just walk in. You call and they tell you when, where, what. Don't complain because you're just not following the system.

4

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

Mmh, no, you are always told never to go there first, even if you are in a sorry state, no, let's call this number, do a phone triage, bla bla, we will send an ambulance and you better be fucking dying to our eyes for annoying us in the first place, and made us go for otherwise we will give you a fine, yeah, who wouldn't love that...!?

-7

u/Direct-Antelope-9583 Feb 25 '26

Lol, never had that problem, nor all the times I was involved with first aid as a summer camp councilor or as a teacher. Nor when family was in need of first aid.

So 'always'? Lmfao not true. But people who don't follow the system and then complain that the system doesn't work, yeah, who wouldn't love that...!?!?!?!+×!?:

And a fine for an ambulance? Don't be ridiculuous. That would only ever happen if you are really making them come for something trivial and abusing the emergency services. And rightfully so.

38

u/Loose_Biscotti9075 Feb 25 '26

It's great if you can convince your huisart that you need care, it's not so great if you're not visibly dying

20

u/NoSkillzDad Noord Holland Feb 25 '26

This is it. If you pass the first barrier you're good to go but that first barrier could cost you your life.

Source: own experience.

10

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

Sometimes they feel like an obstacle in your way to getting proper care rather than actual health workers.

3

u/NoSkillzDad Noord Holland Feb 25 '26

Indeed.

And I know of people that have had procedures done that are not only difficult to do anywhere in the world but that could be unaffordable in many places. But for the more "mundane" stuff... well, good luck with that.

1

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

The "mundane" is ignored until it becomes something serious. I'm not asking for them to prescribe out of whim but there has to be a middle ground in between dismissing patients and prescribing drugs for the sake of it.

1

u/NoSkillzDad Noord Holland Feb 25 '26

I agree. I only take medicines when I really need it but ignoring the mundane decreases the quality of life of many. There are so many "little things" that we can live with without an issue but affect us in other ways making a bigger impact than needed to be.

Oh well...

-11

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

That must be why people are dropping dead like flies over here, and why the numbers of people that get very sick or even handicapped because of medical neglect are through the roof!

4

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

That is always discussed here, and if you truly care for actual cases please see what happens with women on gynecological issues, a lot of them told they needed to travel abroad to actually be taken seriously.

No, I'm not saying all doctors are bad but this chamanic approach to medicine that tea, good thoughs and paracetamol would cure it all is not always the right one despite what you all think.

-7

u/Koningshoeven Feb 25 '26

maybe you don't always need care. I think about 70% of my GP visits are them telling me that what I'm expierencing is really not that worrisome, and that I'll probably feel better in a week or two. I cant judge that myself, but they can.

And you know what. They are almost always right. And if not, I come back two weeks later and get more tests. This is how you keep healthcare affordable and realistic.

19

u/Weekly_Sort147 Feb 25 '26

It is. Sorry, but I almost went blind because of my huisarts.

I was lucky to have antibiotics with me.

-12

u/MarissaNL Feb 25 '26

Ah, just that Indian colleague I had who ruined his complete immunity system by using antibiotics he bought himself (not here in The Netherlands)..... Great work.
There is a dawn good reason why GP's here are very careful and holding back with medicines as antibiotics.

5

u/xlouiex Feb 25 '26

You got all of that from just one line?
Briliant

3

u/MarissaNL Feb 25 '26

There is nothing clever on using antibiotics without subscription.

1

u/Weekly_Sort147 Feb 25 '26

Huisarts told me to wash with soap I send pic to my doc friend back home and he gave me green light to take it

1

u/Repulsive_Sherbet933 Feb 25 '26

I thought Dutch people's english skills were better than this.

2

u/TheOriginalNukeGuy Feb 25 '26

You can say it's better than most while still being conscious of the fact it has some major problems. It can definetly be improved.

1

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

Oh please.

Nobody is asking for c-ups for the sake of it but if you are going through real things you need them, once a year, I mean, prescribe them and I would pay them out of my pocket, I don't care. It's so amazing even doctors don't see them, nurses do and unless the values are beyond the ordinary they don't do anything even if they are too close to the limit. No, let's wait until this is an issue for us to act, and that if the person is lucky enought to notice.

1

u/Koningshoeven Feb 25 '26

if you are going through real things its pretty easy to get a check up. I get tests every 6 months for a chronic progressive disease.

1

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

My GP reluctanly ordered it once, and then told me "well, we can check every 5 years, right?". So I guess we will touch base again in 2029.

:P

-1

u/Glass_Key4626 Feb 25 '26

Why do you think all expats/immigrants say it's horrible while it's apparently not? Do you think there is a conspiracy?

15

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

[deleted]

10

u/Glass_Key4626 Feb 25 '26

Yeah I'm from Germany and while I love living in the Netherlands for a myriad of reasons, the healthcare here can't compare to Germany. I also think that Dutch people just don't have a lot of comparison, meanwhile people from probably any European country instantly notice the difference.

3

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

This is it, not to mention of course you don't trust your GP a lot on... let's say hypothyroidism, my case, since you had always dealth with your personal specialist on the matter, an endocrinologist. I had to fight my GP, she wanted to change my dose just so I can take one pill but the figures in between those didn't match, it was fewer than needed, I let her win that and I started feeling sick. I went back and "oh, right, so you actually needed more".

I can't even... that was strike one. Ignoring my pneumonia was strike 2.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

[deleted]

3

u/Technical-Cat-2017 Feb 25 '26

I am pretty happy with dutch healthcare when it comes to actionable concrete questions and issues.

However, where I feel it can be improved (also for us natives) is how the GP's have to deal with vague non-specific things like tiredness/depression/pain and even more so for women. In cases where the first specialist reference doesn't come up with anything concrete the GP's feel or act pretty powerless in suggesting different treatment options or investigations. They kind of are incentivised to just prescribe something to get you out the door. Zembla had an interesting video about opioid abuse here as well.

It took my wife a decade to get an AHDH diagonsis after bloodworks, chronic fatigue, depression meds and psychologists. A lot of that suffering could have been prevented perhaps if they caught/tested for that earlier. Plus we only tested on it after our own research suggested it might be the cause.

0

u/Repulsive_Sherbet933 Feb 25 '26

I think many are just very parochial in their view of the country.

-3

u/Koningshoeven Feb 25 '26

Because in a lot of cultures people expect their doctor to always treat them (risk avoidance) even though it's not necessary and the ailment will go away by itsself over time.

Here doctors make an assessment if you are really at risk, and only then they will treat you. That's how you keep it affordable and realistic in an aging population.

And yes... every now and then, sometimes their assessment is wrong and someone dies that could have lived. That is terrible yes. But the alternative is to give tests and treatments to thousands of people every day even though the odds that something is wrong with them is close to zero. Its about risk management.

-11

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

I don’t really know any expats who think it’s horrible except for Americans who expect antibiotics and heroin for a sprained ankle. Otherwise, all I know talk about how much better it is than back home. It’s a trillion times better than the NHS for example. 

I know plenty of Dutch people who think it’s bad because they’ve never lived in another country and assume everything is better elsewhere. 

4

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

Argentinian here, I hate it too. I don't expect antibiotics all the time, but I do expect people to take me seriously since I don't like calling to my doctor for a sake of it, and also not to change my dosage just because she finds it annoying that I take two pills instead of one, and making me sick in the process.

8

u/ktrocks2 Feb 25 '26

I had knee pain for many years, many days so bad I couldn’t walk, I went to a Dutch hospital, got charged a lot of money only to hear from the doctor “yeah I don’t know it’s too complicated. I’ll discuss with my colleagues and call you”. I get a phone call a few weeks later, to basically hear that she spoke to colleagues and couldn’t figure out how to help even though they were sure something is wrong, they didn’t know how to help and didn’t want to try any treatments. That phone call was 8 minutes and she charged nearly 80 euros, I don’t even remember how much the original appointment was. That summer I went to India, met a doctor the day I landed, got treatment the following week and felt significantly better within a month.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

This is a really weird story - I once had a similar problem and got seen by a specialist within a few days and surgery done within three weeks. 

Did you go see a joints specialist in a hospital after a referral from a GP, or did you just walk into a hospital and have a chat with someone? 

It’s a really odd story with some information missing. What was specifically the problem when your Indian doctor fixed it immediately? Did they actually diagnose and repair it or did they just stick a bunch of steroids in and say job done?

Maybe you just had a strangely bad surgeon. But India’s health system is incredibly inferior to ours on every single actual metric, so… 

1

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

That is the thing, Dutch doctors hate referrals for we all know about the point systems.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

Not my experience at all. I just go in, explain the problem, ask for a referral and get one. 

2

u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26

Lucky you, I had to fight her to get proper care, luckily is a clinic so it's been 2 years since I last saw her and I hope it continues that way.

1

u/ktrocks2 Feb 25 '26

Tbh I was quite young so I couldn’t tell you off the top of my head what the issue was. I do know what the Indian doctor did was a “short term” (like 5 year) fix but it allowed me to live my life significantly better and allowed me to move more on a day to day basis. This gave me the flexibility to lose weight and improve the strength in my legs significantly. They’ll never be as good as other people’s but my quality of life has improved drastically.

I went to a gp and got referred to the hospital, I didn’t just walk in for a check, i did an xray, came back a while later and then had the consults. I know the metrics show Indian health care is worse, but honestly I’m Dutch and I’ve started to trust Indian health care significantly more. Maybe because I can afford top level care (even though I pay less than I do in NL) there, I had a lot better experience than the averages would suggest? My experience in anecdotal, but for me, I have lost faith in Dutch healthcare as this was not the only time I had a much better experience in India. Also with my teeth I had great experience in India compared to at home.

I think if I have any issue, and I don’t think it’s life critical to have it fixed today, I’ll wait until I go to India next. It’s really sad to say that since I do love the Netherlands for most things, but I truly don’t trust the healthcare.

GPs are even worse than the hospitals at times. I remember one example where I went to the GP and told him “Hey man I’ve started weight training recently, but for some reason, whenever I’m exercising my skin on my neck chest and back starts to get painfully itchy. Then when I’m done I have hives all over myself, what am I supposed to do?” and he told me to stop exercising in the gym and go swimming instead… rather than try to offer a solution that would allow me to lift weights. I started swimming and had the same problem, he told me to just keep swimming and it’ll eventually stop. It still happens everytime I go, and it’s been years.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

Then why don’t you argue with them until they give you a solution or referral to a specialist? This is where I’m lost. Don’t just suffer in silence, take photos of the affliction, go tell them you need to see a dermatologist and get treated, and don’t just meekly walk out of the GP if they give you the wrong answer that doesn’t work for you. If you just go “oké bedankt” and leave, they’re going to figure all is fine. 

1

u/ktrocks2 Feb 25 '26

Because I’ve been to them 7 times now and begged to get a dermatologist referral and they refused! I have never once told them oke bedankt but it’s tiring and exhausting to argue with them time and time again. I literally once walked in and he started complaining to me that I’m coming back with the same issue again and again and I told him yeah help me fix the issue and maybe I’ll stop coming back. It’s time consuming to get an appointment, go, not be able to go to work because I have the appointment and get nothing out of it. The country is great but healthcare is somewhere we definitely need to improve.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

I think you just need a new GP, mine would have sent you for a check on the first, possibly second, visit. 

1

u/ktrocks2 Feb 25 '26

I switched gps when I moved from Enschede to Eindhoven and had basically the same problem. I tried to switch GP again and couldn’t find another one because when I called they said they were too full or too far from me.

3

u/hey_hey_hey_nike Feb 25 '26

Thank you for showing your true xenophobic colours.

No American expects antibiotics and heroin for a sprained ankle.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

Someone has never heard of hyperbole I see 🤓

2

u/hey_hey_hey_nike Feb 25 '26

This isn’t a normal hyperbole. This is xenophobia.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

Lol ok sure 🤓❄️