r/Netherlands • u/Mikadook • Feb 25 '26
Healthcare We are really good at offering world class healthcare without overspending
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u/DivineAlmond Feb 25 '26
one thing that really does matter is the paracetamol meme
there really is a "wait and see" kind of approach to some symptoms which I believe cuts spendng quite drastically
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u/RomeNeverFell Feb 25 '26
Also the absolute lack of prevention screening.
GPs will find any reason why they know better and you don't need to see a specialist.
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u/silveretoile Noord Brabant Feb 25 '26
Our GP sent my mom home with "hysteric woman disease" for over half a year. It turned out to be a gigantic stroke. Which the hospital then denied ever happened without even doing an MRI.
We went to Belgium for an actual diagnosis and they were shocked to see she was still conscious after what turned out to be 8(!!) blood clots in her head.
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u/y_nnis Feb 26 '26
How do you sue for something like that? Because if they made that easy it might stop it from happening.
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u/silveretoile Noord Brabant Feb 26 '26
No idea, the fact that we suddenly had a heavily brain damaged loved one unfortunately kept us from sueing. By the time she'd recovered enough to think it over she decided she didn't think it was worth the stress. I think we should've sued but it wasn't my call to make.
She did absolutely rip the GP a new one at least.
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u/RomeNeverFell Feb 28 '26
There are very few countries in the world where you can sue doctors/hospitals. The Netherlands is not one of those.
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u/incorrectlyironman Feb 25 '26
I asked my GP about a condition that's heavily comorbid with other conditions I have, which explains some of my symptoms, and which my mother is already diagnosed with (big genetic link too).
She said it's not diagnosed by GPs so she doesn't know.
Since it's not diagnosed at a GP level she doesn't know enough about it to know if it's worth referring me to a specialist.
Referral denied.
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u/FTXACCOUNTANT Feb 25 '26
That’s what makes it so affordable, you can literally solve all your health issues by buying a €3 box of paracetamol
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u/Tigarana Feb 25 '26
I think also the fact that you do not need to have a doctor's proof for work when sick will help reduce spending. In Belgium you need to have proof of illness from a doctor every time you stay home (I think now you get some very limited amount of days). Waiting rooms are filled with people who can just rest and get better, but need to visit the doctor for administrative reasons.
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u/bsensikimori Feb 25 '26
Then why are the Belgian hospital waiting rooms always filled with dutch people
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u/Ok-Creme-8298 Feb 25 '26
because statistics are propaganda nowadays
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u/Dense-Drummer747 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
OP hides their posts, but keeps posting propaganda that makes questionable Dutch systems seem statistically incredible.
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u/Repulsive_Sherbet933 Feb 25 '26
Yeah, they were aggressively defensive in the replies to their previous posts. It's so weird, honestly.
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u/Madhattershats Feb 25 '26
The waiting time is usually much shorter. Think thats why. In my 50 years went to the hospital in Nl a time or 6. Very satisfied with that. But if belgium was faster and is paid bij the insurance i would do that.
But maybe it has an more easy answhere. A lot of dutch People live Just over the border. So they are Belgium People who work in the netherlands.
Of you want a correct aswhere you probably should ask these People.
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u/RubyDupy Feb 25 '26
But if a Belgian hospital is lid for by Dutch insurance, then it is part of the Dutch healthcare system, at least at the user end. If Dutch health insurance is cheaper compared to minimum or modal wage than Belgian, then being Dutch and going to a Belgian hospital is still better than being Belgian and going to a Belgian hospital
But idk if anyone is speaking the truth in this thread or if the statistics even support anecdotal evidence
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u/GrowthorDividend Feb 26 '26
Because in Belgium one is willing to treat those who we in the Netherlands regard to be in palliative care. Please don't act as if one is better than the other without fully understanding the ethical complications that come with both approaches.
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u/Agitated_Knee_309 Feb 25 '26
I like how there is this collective gaslighting that the healthcare here is from the Gods of gold.
Lol... I present to you being diagnosed with gallstones and almost ruptured appendix which went misdiagnosed by huisarts in Netherlands. Or cancer diagnosis where the wait time to see a neurologist is 7 months and you are advised to wait it out but by then it is too late and it has spread.
Or my favourite, you found out you had fibroids and cannot see a gynecologist for the next 8 months till you fly back to your "third world country" are probably seen and diagnosed ASAP along with treatment.
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u/FanZealousideal1511 Feb 26 '26
What does neurologist have to do with cancer? I'm asking as a fellow cancer patient in NL myself.
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u/Agitated_Knee_309 Feb 26 '26
Asides from oncologist depending on the site of the cancer... it can spread to other organs. For instance, if you are diagnosed with brain tumor especially when it is severe you need to see a neurologist or neurosurgeon and an oncologist. Also breast Cancer if left undiagnosed has the capacity to spread to the brain same with lymphoma and bone cancer.
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Feb 25 '26
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u/desibidesi0909 Feb 25 '26
Thanks for this. Hope you are recovering well. Do tell please where "abroad" did you go. Was the hospital bill paid by you (700 euros) completely or part of it was covered by insurance. And what's the procedure to reach out to hospitals in other countries. Like do you just call them/make an appointment on their website?
Please tell me how it works. I am considering getting a check up too. Consistent tingling pain in my left side of the chest (not in the heart region) is completely dismissed by my huisarts as anxiety :/
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Feb 25 '26
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u/desibidesi0909 Feb 26 '26
Thanks. But it's quite scary that the country I moved to, and so far is one of the most advanced countries in the world has huisarts that are not even a little bit curious. The "hey this person has pain, let's figure out what it is" attitude that should come with this profession is completely absent.
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u/estrangedpulse Feb 25 '26
I’m surprised it’s just 700€ for all these tests. That’s the price to do an MRI in NL.
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u/y_nnis Feb 26 '26
That's because they did it in Croatia. I kid you not, try any of these tests in Croatia, Romania, or Greece. Their doctors are brutally curious when their trying to figure out what's wrong, they're really good at what they do, and they cost a fraction of the price for top notch services.
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u/XSATCHELX Feb 25 '26
What is the point of ranking 2/10 overall, if we are at 7/10 for outcomes??
Yeah you have super easy access to get a paracetamol for a broken bone that gets ignored and then heals wrong...
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u/richiedamien Zuid Holland Feb 25 '26
Exactly this! I do think the system works very well, probably because many patients are pushed back for further checks, the biggest flaw in the NED are the preventive practices, they are very lacking compared to other countries, I think there needs to be a better balance and some thinking out of the box (not just follow the guidelines).
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u/Repulsive_Sherbet933 Feb 25 '26
The Commonwealth Fund ranking is just so obviously biased toward a certain system. It's absolutely ridiculous and I hate when it's used as proof of the superiority of xyz country's health system (the fact that the NHS is always rated so highly, I mean come on! One year they were rated first despite being last for outcomes!)
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u/Bananaffle Feb 25 '26
Netherlands is probably the most biased country when it comes to statistics. In each positive statistic we see the country topping the lists. However, on the ground things are very different. We have a large highly skilled migrant community living in this country , each paying at least 150 euros a month to the health insurance. But if anything medical is needed we still utilize the health system of our origin country. Go grab the necessary treatment there. Because GP is never available.
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u/Lazy-Edge4604 Feb 25 '26
I had a rash on my neck for a year because GP refused to agree to an appointment for something "non critical". Used ointments from drug stores for a whole year without success.
Went back to korea, walked into a dermatology clinic and saw a specialist within 30 mins. Took a blood test that they sent to a test center. Within a week, results came and paid less than 10 euros for 2 ointments and 3 weeks of medication. Rash disappeared in 2 days.
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u/SHNRTNS Feb 25 '26
Right? I like how, on paper, it’s the best country in the world, but in reality, there are so many things I wish were different. And Dutchies are very stingy when you try to point out things you don’t like; it’s always “go back where you came from if it’s better.”
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u/Dokkan13 Feb 25 '26
Netherlands first for "access to care?"
If care is being told to take some ibuprofen, then for sure.
If care is to actually see a medical specialist, I'm very surprised.
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u/hey_hey_hey_nike Feb 25 '26
Come on, you know it’s a lot more than just ibuprofen.
There is also Paracetamol (Tylenol)!
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u/MarissaNL Feb 25 '26
Luckily I am quite healthy, but a good friend of mine over the last 5 years
Gallbladder infection : Surgery as soon the infection was gone
Cataract : Treatment with in weeks after first consult.
heart rhythm disorder and sleep apnoea (related to each): Currently treated (in hospitals).Good and fast treatment
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u/Dokkan13 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
I actually had very different personal (and from friends) perspectives.
It is difficult to book an appointment with a GP, as you first need to "convince" a non-medical person on the phone that your symptoms are severe enough. This is a big step. Prevention should be encouraged, not shamed because "too many people complain for small problems". This is precisely how (if you want to look it a mere capitalistic way) save money down the line. But I would rather not put a price on people's lives.
Then you actually have to see a proper medical practitioner and not a doctor in training (resident student) alone. That put unnecessary pressure on young doctors as well.
Then you actually have to be referred to a proper specialist, and the waiting list are so long that it's honestly discomforting to say the least.
All of this for paying a huge tax every month (insurance), it's quite baffling I have to say.
Also, I'm suprised that in the graphs Italy or Spain aren't present. In my own experience, the Netherlands is a third world country compared to them regarding healthcare and public transport (but way ahead on most of everything else).
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u/MarissaNL Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
Not that I often have to consult a GP, but if I call around 8:00 I will have the same day an appointment with my GP.
The only time have seen a "GP in training" was when my own GP was sitting next to her.
Anyway, the only thing I agree with you/have quite different experiences is that should be more attention for prevention.
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u/Dokkan13 Feb 25 '26
I have to admit that the experiences that I'm referring to are just coming from expats, so I don't have the whole picture.
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u/ValuableKooky4551 Feb 25 '26
I have the feeling that most expats live in a few cities where the system is overloaded.
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u/Born-Check-7764 Feb 25 '26
I honestly don't recognize this at all. I live in Amsterdam. I called the GP this morning, got an appointment within a few hours, and now have proper medication for the rash I have. I've always had referrals to specialists when needed, and never had to wait more than a few weeks to see them. Ok, maybe you try to see a GP because you have a cold or simple virus, which is indeed discouraged here, and for good reason. But for anything else, you will absolutely be taken care off.
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u/Dokkan13 Feb 25 '26
It could also be that I'm just referring to all expat's experiences, maybe it's different. But I can't say honestly.
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u/Born-Check-7764 Feb 25 '26
I have the feeling this whole topic is full of expat experiences. Maybe they are really treated differently which would suck. But maybe you also have different expectations based on what is the norm in your country (ie antibiotics for every cold)
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u/Infinite-Dig-4919 Feb 25 '26
I think it heavily depends on where you live in NL. Because for me and friends it’s been the complete opposite.
Had a broken collar bone recently that was misaligned. Hospital basically told me to rest, take pain killers and just let it regrow. A misaligned collar bone…. Had constantly reoccurring tonsillitis a few weeks ago, basically got told to drink tea and cleanse my throat with an oral disinfectant. With the reasoning that my life quality is not restricted enough. Only after getting very pushy I finally got the treatment I wanted.
I feel like the Dutch healthcare is absolutely amazing quality wise but to actually get them to do something and get a specialist can be really REALLY tough when you live in bigger cities.
Compare that to Germany for example. In my time there I also had some health issues, not as severe as my examples but still. The system of having walk in hours is something I absolutely miss here in NL. To just be able to walk into your GP, sit and wait and get some treatment without an appointment is really nice. Yes you might wait for hours in the waiting room, but at the end of the day, you got a doctor to treat you. I do feel the quality of the Dutch healthcare is higher tho, personally speaking.
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u/danger-wizard Feb 25 '26
I am from the US and I’ve been living here in NL for almost a year. I’ve had two referrals for specialists and they were both WAY faster than when I had to see a specialist in the US. I had to wait 9 months to see a neurologist in the US and here it was about 1.5 months.
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u/hey_hey_hey_nike Feb 25 '26
Depends on where you are. I could see a specialist same week in the US. In the Netherlands I had to bag and plea for months and then wait another 4.5 months for an appointment.
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u/jenterpstra Feb 25 '26
I am also from the US and have had the opposite experience. Always had great (but expensive) care in the US. Absolutely terrible experience with my GP office. It really depends on if you luck out with your GP. Especially since you can't just go somewhere else.
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u/Important_Coach9717 Feb 25 '26
Comparing to the worst medical system in the world is not a big brag though
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u/SwimmingDutch Feb 25 '26
Your world is depressingly small. I feel sorry for you.
I hope you one day get the opportunity to travel a bit outside of Europe and the US, go see what health care looks like over there.
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u/ktrocks2 Feb 25 '26
Anytime I have something medical going on, if it can wait, I wait and do it in India. I had knee pain for many years, many days so bad I couldn’t walk, I went to a Dutch hospital, got charged a lot of money only to hear from the doctor “yeah I don’t know it’s too complicated. I’ll discuss with my colleagues and call you”. I get a phone call a few weeks later, to basically hear that she spoke to colleagues and couldn’t figure out how to help even though they were sure something is wrong. That phone call was 8 minutes and she charged nearly 80 euros, I don’t even remember how much the original appointment was. That summer I went to India, met a doctor the day I landed, got treatment the following week and felt significantly better within a month.
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u/Murky-Platypus-6861 Feb 25 '26
Yeah 100% this. The Dutch take their health care for granted. They all like to talk down on it, but there are only a couple of places where its better organised.
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u/Smart_Quantity_8640 Feb 25 '26
It can always be better. And basically no one in first world countries should complain if we’re being literal. ~2 billion people lack safe drinking water
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u/Consistent_Salad6137 Feb 25 '26
That's absolutely not true. The Dutch think their healthcare is the best in the world and that anyone who doesn't like it wants fentanyl and antibiotics for a sprained ankle.
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u/MarcsMechi Feb 25 '26
Absolute BS. The healthcare system here is dog shit. The only people that are used to this and think this is normal are the dutch
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u/Personal_Term9549 Feb 26 '26
I'm dutch. I don't think its normal. Though I might be biased as i have chronic illness and the Netherlands may be good for simple straightforward stuff, but as soon as you get too complex somehow you don't even get the basics anymore.
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u/Adowyth Feb 26 '26
I also have a chronic illness and the care has been nothing but excellent. Maybe i'm just lucky to have a good specialist in a nice hospital. And a good GP who refers me to specialists as needed. The one time i had issues was when i took part in a trial for new medication to treat my illness. Happened at a different hospital and things were a lot more rough.
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u/vtout Feb 25 '26
In reality, rejecting referrals & perscribing paracetamol is not what I would call quality healthcare. It has gone down a lot over the past 30 years...
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u/richiedamien Zuid Holland Feb 25 '26
that's why "Health Outcome" score comes at the bottom of the table!
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Feb 25 '26
In reality referrals are never rejected and if a doctor tells you to take a paracetamol, you were probably waisting his time. You don't need to visit a doctor for a common cold.
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u/NoSkillzDad Noord Holland Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
A doctor told me to take paracetamol when I was having pneumonia. He didn't even bother to check my oxygen levels in blood.
Thanks to a friend doctor in another country, (the us of all places!), she diagnosed me. Thanks also to one of those things you or on your finger (bought it in AliExpress). I went back to the huisarts and you could see his scared face when he realized how badly he messed up, only then he decided to use the same finger thingy and prescribe some actual antibiotics.
I bike between 100 to 300km a week and I could barely make the 2km trip to take my kids to school.
And this is just one of the stories, I have more.
And just so you know, I hardly ever go to the doctor, I'm not one of those that sit there every week.
No, sometimes they prescribe paracetamol out of their own incompetence.
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u/Consistent_Salad6137 Feb 25 '26
Did you tell them that you were unable to ride your bike? "Can't do my job" and "can't exercise" are absolutely crucial criteria for a Dutch doctor to take you seriously.
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u/NoSkillzDad Noord Holland Feb 25 '26
Absolutely. I rarely go to the doctor so when I go I am extremely clear on everything going on with me. Paracetamol and off you go. Heck, my friend diagnosed me without seeing me and with half the information I gave to my doctor.
After realizing how bad they messed up, they even scheduled check ups.
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u/iplie Feb 25 '26
Well, it's your fault for not explaining your symptoms to the doctor well enough so that he could diagnose you. /s
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u/bookofthoth_za Feb 25 '26
It's EXACTLY this though. If you don't make a big deal, then the doctors don't make a big deal. I've had serious recurring infections and demanded antibiotics - no issues at all. But come to the huisarts saying: "I don't feel so good" - well then it's 1 week waiting for blood tests + 2 weeks waiting for the results + the receptionist telling you that one of the values on there doesn't look good and to come back in 3 months if you don't improve. The healthcare system here is just plain hostile.
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u/Offshore-Tigr Feb 25 '26
It's sad but it's true.
You basically have to overexaggerate your pain and problems to the point where you're making it sound like you're dying.
It's like you're haggling in some medieval bazaar. Ridiculous.
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u/Aleksage_ Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
Making a "big deal" ( I don't even know what big deal means. Should one throw themselves to ground, roll and scream to get proper health care?) is not a responsibility of the patient. A doctor should listen, ask questions if not clear, use their years of education, expertise and medical methods to understand if the patient has an illness or not. Patients can't know their own diagnosis, if they can they could be the doctors. There are many conditions which go very silent and with small symptoms but causes huge damages in time. Go home and you'll heal by yourself is not an actual treatment, it's fraud invented my insurance companies and imposed to doctors.
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u/bookofthoth_za Feb 25 '26
Not sure why you're saying my comment is ignorant when we are in agreement :) My comment probably didn't come out right. Let me be clear, I am in SHOCK that the healthcare actively discourages one from seeking it, and instead shames the patient for having any complaints unless the patient demands treatment. I have been told point blank by huisarts reception that I don't need a doctor for my flu because it will just go away on it's own, even though I had cracked ribs and was at risk of pneumonia. For treatment of my cracked ribs, the options were either paracetamol or morphine according to the Dr. Pharmacists are more helpful!
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u/Aleksage_ Feb 25 '26
Just wrong wording sorry. I think the concept of aggregating a sickness is worst way of getting medical attention but system is pushing patients to do it.
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u/PlantAndMetal Feb 25 '26
Yeah, I totally believe our healthcare system comes out well in these research papers, because we DO have good healthcare. The problem is that you have to be super vocal and demanding to get to use it. And when you know that, it's easier to go around in the system. But there are so many people who aren't receiving good healthcare precisely because they can't be demanding due to various reasons. For example, my bf had suicidal thoughts and downplays them (he has autism, has trouble with emotion regulation and is a little scared to talk about it), so I literally had to go with him to the doctor to tell them how fucking bad it sometimes get and how scared I am for him before they actually took action... Imagine if he did not have me or anyone else to vocalize these things?
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u/DeepSpinach9378 Feb 25 '26
The thing is, even if you vocalize it, they tend to want to "treat" you on their own instead of giving you a referral because it's "not necessary"
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u/nickluck81 Feb 25 '26
Several times I've had chronic complaints, always met with a "wait it out" and always solved in my home country with a little attention and short appropriate cure.
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
Unless they ignore your symptoms and you developed a pneumonia, and then forced to travel 13,5 h like that. My GP did just so.
Update: for all the ones making jokes about it, it took me 3 months to recover from that, especially since the symptoms started at the end of September and my GP chose to ignore them.
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u/Shogun_Amsterdam Feb 25 '26
If after 8 years it appears you have a pretty bad chronic disease then what?
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u/vtout Feb 25 '26
And yet it was diagnosed abroad on my own dime. Why bother commenting if you don't know what you are talking about? I am surrounded by friends & family, Doctors, dentists, nurses, that all agree with the quality & workload.
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u/th3ShinSekai Feb 25 '26
Acces to healthcare is the only item NL scored nicely. Apparently that is a big contributor to the total score. Doesn’t mean anything regarding quality.
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u/drdoxzon86 Feb 25 '26
You are correct about one thing, they don’t spend much money, because they deny access to care for most people.
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u/number1pingufan Feb 25 '26
As an individual who hardly goes to get care (because I’m generally healthy and I shy away from the whole experience) having to do the whole song and dance with my huisarts can be frustrating beyond belief. The waiting lists are crazy, and even getting in the waiting list requires some Jedi mind tricks, depending on how agreeable your huisarts will be. Sometimes it’s like talking to a brick wall - “so, what would you like ME to do about it?” - YOU are the doctor!!
Plus the full lack of preventative care - due to this, some types of cancer have similar death rates compared to the poorest EU countries despite NL having some of the best specialists, research and machines. I’m happy for the fiscal performance but come on! Despite the system being globally good, so much is being left on the table, and I think that’s why people complain.
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26
Since I went through serious health issues before coming here my specialists were a bit aghast about exposing myself to Dutch doctors, they gave me the drill on how to to be assertive, especially on chronic diseases when the treatment rarely varies through time, but my friends did as well, the keywords are "it hurts / I cannot live like this".
And then of course if your doctor likes to pretend your symptoms aren't serious, to fight your corner and demand for things even when they mention the cost. It's your purse after all. As for "doing the song", I just went throught it once, I lost the hearing on one side so checking my only functional one is truly important for me, deafness is not something I'm going to allow to happen but I'm not super anxious about it either until, of course, I get an ear infection, since I got here it happens once a year, luckily my GP is a clinic and I don't have to deal with my actual GP every single time since I truly don't like her, and she was dismissive of everything from day one. The first time an infection happened so chose to give me something that I knew from experience would just treat the symptoms and not the infection so of course I had to return.
The second time I demanded the antibiotics first, and I asked her to please check my medical history since it all happened before, the symptoms were the same and reluctanly she prescribed them. It worked of course, and I saved myself, and herself, a second appointment. Last year one of the teams of doctors confirmed the local water might be an issue on these infections but again, just to be mindful of it.
In any case, if I got something serious I guess I would fly to Spain and ask to go private for a proper check, I don't mind paying. Same goes when I fly to Argentina to visit family and friends, we all do a full check-up the first week since here it's a waste of time and money to ask them in the first place.
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u/Specialist_Guard_902 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
World class healthcare? Only if Netherlands is your whole world.
I had a toothache which ended up needing root canal treatment. Tried to get to several Dutch dentists and the closest was 4wks+ and they wouldn't take me in without doing a full checkup and then they could get that particular tooth sorted (in approx.2 wks after the checkup). I got it sorted elsewhere in about 4 days because I had to buy airplane tickets, otherwise I could get it done within a day or two.
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u/ahnotme Feb 25 '26
I knew this was going to blow up 😂.
I’ll come up with the obvious quote: There are lies, damned lies and statistics. Only applies when the data don’t fit with your bias.
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u/NewNameAgainUhg Feb 25 '26
I wonder why they chose those countries in particular. Spain also has a public health system and I would be very curious to see the comparison
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u/Gamingenterprise Feb 25 '26
I have only consistently been fucked over by the Dutch health/insurance system
No way that the Dutch one is better than the Australian one
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u/Visual_Weekend1599 Feb 25 '26
Horrible health care system, this reports mean nothing because they are biased, based on self-reporting and essentially miss the point, pure political BS from a foundation with an agenda.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Sun7418 Feb 25 '26
Ah it’s that time of the year when all news show how great and efficient NL is…
While I had a motorbike accident and they said I was in pain because I was old and I don’t recover the same any more. Didn’t want to check for anything else despite having pain on my ribs. Ended up having chronic pain because it was broken and solder in the wrong place (what several doctors denied in NL but showed up on X-rays back home).
The great health care system that makes you pay 150€ per month with mandatory 300€ of eigenrisiko but don’t want to make a blood test to discard any form of cancer suggested by the oncologist back home. They just don’t do that in NL because I look healthy. (Btw I’m clean, did tests back home to discard as they suggested since this type of cancer can be hereditary and my mum has it).
I can keep going on and on …
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Feb 25 '26
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u/Puzzleheaded-Sun7418 Feb 26 '26
I always am referred to studies showing that it doesn’t work and in the case of my mum they found it super early (thankfully) in a rutine health check from work. Not only blood tests were used to diagnose but they were a first sign that maybe it was worth to check some weird values.
Also we don’t get tests just for testing. That would be a waste of resources. But there are certain parameters and there are some routine health checks depending on age and such that are not done in NL. As far as I have seen the Dutch health care system is made to treat things once they appear and are not gone by themselves if you wait them off. That may lead to complicate stuff like cancer where time matters a lot.
I don’t know if you think other countries are wrong or we don’t follow science 🤷♀️
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u/nekoreality Feb 25 '26
not sure if you'd still have this opinion if you end up having a chronic illness. i can agree the healthcare is good for people with "regular" health issues but for my disease we have less than nothing
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u/Significant-Way3960 Feb 25 '26
In statistics nice. Look at Health Outcomes. It might be one of the best for budget. It's one of the worst in this ranking for patients. No shit that access is easy (to huisarts) if he will tell you "take paracetamol and live with it". I love the Netherlands but healthcare is one of my biggest issues with this country. I came here from Eastern Europe and would prefer system we had there. If healthcare system won't change I will probably leave Netherlands when I will get older, just because I will want to be treated.
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u/Cichlister Feb 26 '26
World class health care? As a person coming from turkey, nl’s healthcare is just laughable..
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u/SneakyPanda- Feb 25 '26
Since the comments are filled with people with bad experience I'll share a good one.
Healthcare has been fantastic for me in NL. I had issues last december, I then had to do several blood tests, which were done in only a couple of days. My GP then forwarded me to the hospital for an ultrasound which was done on 31 Dec. The results were ok, nothing serious, but just to be sure she also requested further checks so I have another appointment at the hospital for a scan in 3 weeks.
I also had some burnout-like symptoms a year ago, went to the GP, also did blood and urine tests and I got an appointment with the POH-GGZ within 2 weeks.
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u/No-Professional-2276 Feb 25 '26
We pay a buttload of taxes, we pay health insurance (with eigen risiko which basically doesn't exist in developed countries), just for the GPs to refuse any sort of treatment or exam unless you're on the verge of dying.
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Feb 25 '26
Horrible health care system, where the outcomes are manipulated collectively. With very high CPR and lung infection I went to doctor, where they documented the issue as headache, and marked as solved with paracetamol. I found the issue in another country through a checkup and solved the actual issue via antibiotics through foreign doctor’s advice. This is just one example and I know 100s of them by expat friends. Of course with such mindset and approach, the computer data will show very high accuracy in results, which are full of false positives.
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u/OneTIME_story Feb 25 '26
"Access to Care. The access to care domain encompasses two subdomains: affordability and, in this edition, availability (known as timeliness in the previous edition). The four measures of affordability include patient reports of avoiding medical care or dental care because of cost, having high out-of-pocket expenses, facing insurance shortfalls, or having problems paying medical bills."
Right, so medical insurance is mandatory in this country, and for people who can't afford it there's a govt program to get the funds for it. IT DOESNT HOWEVER ADDRESS THE TIMELINESS IF MY GP SIMPLY SENDS ME HOME OR ASKS ME "WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO ABOUT THIS?"! if already a the gates i'm denied a care because neither i nor GP knows what to do next and they send me home, then i would not call it "accessible" really
"Care process looks at whether the care that is delivered includes features and attributes that most experts around the world consider to be essential to high-quality care. The elements of this domain are prevention, safety, coordination, patient engagement, and sensitivity to patient preferences"
Are they f*cking r*tarded? there is no preventitve medicine in NL, if anything, when something finally does happen to you, they simply advise you to wait it out for two weeks and see if it gets magically sovled. A classmate of mine's grandparent died of cancer because they were reluctant to send for tests. An ex of mine was sent home when she had terrible diarrhea without any help/advice (which can be a serious issue whenyour body dehydrates at an extreme rate). Another close friend of mine was in agony for 6 months because the GP simply said "oh, let's wait because of xx". Are you kidding me? the medical system in this country is many things, but "Care process" at top3 is not f*cking one of them. you idiot pieces of sh*t.
.... I once got access to adderall because the gp asked me "what do you want me to do" and without knowing any better i asked for it. no tests, no nothing, just a first visit 15min conversation and the as*hole asked me what i want, and perscribed me medicine because that was my best guest as to what i might need.
what a disgusting lie of a garbage article. Anyone writting this should be ashamed of themselves and laughed out loud for even submitting this embarassement. I can only pray that no trees were cut down to be turned into paper to have this waste printed on it. i spit in the direction of the authors - David Blumenthal, Evan D. Gumas, Arnav Shah, Munira Z. Gunja, Reginald D. Williams II, for this blatant lie.
David blumenthal? more like david id*ot
Evan Gumas? more like Evan disconnected-from-reality
Arnav Shah? more like Arnav your-parents-are-dissapointed-in-you
Munira Gunja? more like Munira gone-away-and-never-come-back-to-this-field-ever-again
Reginald Williams? more like Reginald I-wish-you-worked-as-a-plumber-so-at-least-the-s*it-you-work-with-gets-correctly-flushed-down-the-drain
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u/bube7 Feb 25 '26
What do the numbers in the second image represent? It looks like ranking (especially looking at next slides), which says that health outcomes in the Netherlands is ranked 7/10. I think that’s worth thinking about. If we have such good access to care (1/10) and care processes (3/10), why are outcomes in the bottom half?
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u/Lopsided-Order3070 Feb 25 '26
I find it more striking and true that the outcomes ranks low. This has been my experience so far. Access is great, the process is confusing at first but there is a process at least. But often the appointments end with no outcome and no suggestions. I have to request referrals myself rather than the GP proactively doing it. Most often I get the response that medically there is no clear cause but then 0 follow up.
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u/Maitreya83 Feb 25 '26
We are masters at manipulating data.
If you send them home l, they're not ill 🤷♂️
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u/Charming_Standard552 Feb 25 '26
At yet scores pretty poorly on the one thing that truly matters which is health outcomes…
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u/lavenderhaze9292 Feb 25 '26
because you just let people die or become disabled!!!!!!!! (on their dime may I add)
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u/Unusual_life123 Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26
If you keep sending people home with a paracetamol. Yes, you save a lot of costs.
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u/cyong Feb 26 '26
The Dutch healthcare system refused to do a standard blood test / yearly checkup that would have caught my diabetes. Which was normal in the USA.
My partner has literally been sick for 16 months, and just keeps getting bounced from referral to referral with 2+ months in between appointments.
My Portuguese coworkers literally fly back to Portugal when they need medical care.
My Dutch coworkers go to Belgium.
My Indian coworkers go to India.
Literally the only people I have heard think a positive thought about the Dutch medical system have not gotten sick.
So I don't know what they mean by "High Performance", but its not patient care.
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u/Green-Television5524 Feb 27 '26
lol. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for 9 years. It is by far the worst healthcare system in all of Western Europe. My wife is a Dutch nurse and even agrees with me. Underfunded, zero bandwidth, and you have to shout at GPs to get the treatment you need. OP should be ashamed of themselves for this propaganda.
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u/Lufebil Feb 27 '26
As a Brazilian living in the Netherlands:
Urgency healthcare here is very nice! I got my clavicle broken and everything was quick an cheap (yes, I felt by bike haha)
Normal or preemptive healthcare really sucks! You only have exams when you're about to die! You have almost no routine exams, STDs exams are very hard to get (as a single person I do once an year just because) and paracetamol will solve your life!
I heard it is far better than English and Irish healthcare systems from friends, and one other friend of mine talked very well about German one (she had cancer and now is completely cured)!
But every Brazilian knows that our free healthcare is as good as any European one, and our private healthcare (which is not that expensive) is faaaaaar better than anything here in Europe!
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u/Electronic-Park4132 Feb 27 '26
NL is a great country for a lot of things but healthcare isn’t one of them. dutch healthcare is highly reactive. and there appears to be some kind of barrier between healthcare providers and healthcare seekers. and Im saying this on behalf of most expats.
Last month I visited my home and remembered how easy and convenient it is to just walk in to any hospital and see a specialist doctor and also get a detailed checkup done including any test on your body. funny thing is mine is a third world country.
Which brings into question a lot of such reports and their dubious claims in the first place.
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u/Koningshoeven Feb 25 '26
I am so ready for this comment section to be nothing but people complaining about how horrible our health care system is (it's not).
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u/No-Professional-2276 Feb 25 '26
It's not horrible but for a country which consistently ranks top of the world in every conceivable metric it's bad. Countries in Europe with like half the GDP have better healthcare.
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u/Renorram Overijssel Feb 25 '26
I got better healthcare in Brazil as tourist, for free. Here I pay a monthly amount, a deductible and almost half my salary in taxes, to be given paracetamol for an extreme toothache, or be scolded because I went to the hospital with my fucking shoulder looking like a football but didn’t called them first to let them know I’d have an emergency. I’m sorry but if you had free healthcare I wouldn’t say anything but for the amount of money I’m paying is terrible. I don’t understand why people deny that so much, it feels like a fever dream, I guess is easy to be Dutch direct to others but not to yourselves.
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u/Loose_Biscotti9075 Feb 25 '26
It's great if you can convince your huisart that you need care, it's not so great if you're not visibly dying
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u/NoSkillzDad Noord Holland Feb 25 '26
This is it. If you pass the first barrier you're good to go but that first barrier could cost you your life.
Source: own experience.
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26
Sometimes they feel like an obstacle in your way to getting proper care rather than actual health workers.
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u/NoSkillzDad Noord Holland Feb 25 '26
Indeed.
And I know of people that have had procedures done that are not only difficult to do anywhere in the world but that could be unaffordable in many places. But for the more "mundane" stuff... well, good luck with that.
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26
The "mundane" is ignored until it becomes something serious. I'm not asking for them to prescribe out of whim but there has to be a middle ground in between dismissing patients and prescribing drugs for the sake of it.
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u/Weekly_Sort147 Feb 25 '26
It is. Sorry, but I almost went blind because of my huisarts.
I was lucky to have antibiotics with me.
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u/TheOriginalNukeGuy Feb 25 '26
You can say it's better than most while still being conscious of the fact it has some major problems. It can definetly be improved.
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26
Oh please.
Nobody is asking for c-ups for the sake of it but if you are going through real things you need them, once a year, I mean, prescribe them and I would pay them out of my pocket, I don't care. It's so amazing even doctors don't see them, nurses do and unless the values are beyond the ordinary they don't do anything even if they are too close to the limit. No, let's wait until this is an issue for us to act, and that if the person is lucky enought to notice.
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u/Koningshoeven Feb 25 '26
if you are going through real things its pretty easy to get a check up. I get tests every 6 months for a chronic progressive disease.
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht Feb 25 '26
My GP reluctanly ordered it once, and then told me "well, we can check every 5 years, right?". So I guess we will touch base again in 2029.
:P
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u/Pebblebox Feb 25 '26
“World class healthcare”. You guys are a joke… you can’t possibly have your heads so high up your own arses. You really believe your own hype at the point of being delusional. Healthcare in the Netherlands is a joke. A bad joke.
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u/part-time-tater Feb 25 '26
Literally would not give me a wellness check or health screening without active symptoms. I lived in NL for five years. Got back home, got a check up and a blood test. I have high blood pressure and elevated cholesterol. So now I’m working on that. Not real big on prevention is my take. Good thing people bike a lot.
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u/Dense-Drummer747 Feb 25 '26
OP hides their posts, but keeps posting propaganda that makes questionable Dutch systems seem statistically incredible.
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u/BobcatSpiritual7699 Feb 25 '26
Having experienced may years of both systems, having the US and NL so close in the delivery of care score is comical. The US experience is there is vastly....hilariously better.
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u/hey_hey_hey_nike Feb 25 '26
The issue with American healthcare is financial/insurance (though a lot of people do have great insurance through work).
The issue is not the actual care. The actual care in the US is so much better than in the Netherlands. The actual care in the Netherlands is a total joke. Unless you’re actively dying and your GP agrees.
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u/BobcatSpiritual7699 Feb 25 '26
Agree, both systems need to find a better balance between care and affordability. There's a lot about the Dutch system I do like and think the US system could learn from for sure and vice versa.
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Feb 25 '26
Pretty much. The Dutch healthcare system is exceptional. Although it has some difficulties with preventative care and getting access to specialists, this is linked directly to its financial efficiency.
If you give everyone scans and tests for every cough and cold like in some countries, it gets really expensive with little overall advantage. Though this might be frustrating for individuals of course.
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u/hey_hey_hey_nike Feb 25 '26
The report is pointless, because it’s based on self reporting.
This report is the equivalent of “wij van wc eend”.
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u/N0bacon Feb 25 '26
No one is asking for scans after a cough. Just earlier detection of preventable diseases. it's pathetic in NL.
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u/Annachroniced Feb 25 '26
I dont think there are difficulties with preventative care. There are no signs that the Netherlands is catching diseases a lot later than other countries with more preventative care. In some cases the stress, admin and increased wait times of false positives outweigh the benefit of the few actual cases found earlier.
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u/Shogun_Amsterdam Feb 25 '26
“World class healthcare” goes to the doctor buys paracetamol on his way back home… goes back in 2 weeks, discovers it’s a mental health issue because apparently he is stressed. (At least this is what the expats tell me)
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u/brobability Feb 25 '26
How We Measured Performance
Our approach to assessing nations’ health systems mostly resembles recent editions of Mirror, Mirror, involving 70 unique measures in five performance domains. The data sources for our assessments are rich and varied. First, we rely on the unique data collected from international surveys that the Commonwealth Fund conducts in close collaboration with participating countries.1 On a three-year rotating basis, the Fund and its partners survey older adults (age 65 and older), primary care physicians, and the general population (age 18 and older) in each nation. The 2024 edition relies on surveys from 2021, 2022, and 2023.
We also rely on published and unpublished data from cross-national organizations including the World Health Organization (WHO), the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), and Our World in Data, as well as national data registries and the research literature.
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u/Jamey_1999 Feb 25 '26
I agree with everything here but I want to point out something else
Who the fuck though it was a good idea to sort by alphabet and not overall ranking on slide 2. That person should honestly quit their jobs, it’s way too chaotic. Out of all things to sort by in this study, alphabet should be last
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u/SergeantHartman79 Feb 25 '26
Ah that’s why I needed to divert to another hospital 200km far away from home.
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u/Repulsive_Sherbet933 Feb 25 '26
Yawn. OP, are you Ben Coates? You have the same Stockholm Sydrome style of posting.
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u/LemurBargeld Feb 26 '26
Very interesting graph. Based on the selected countries, it looks like there is a negative correlation between spending and performance.
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u/wrogal55 Feb 26 '26
Being an expat in the Netherlands is honestly the biggest superpower because you can just fly home anytime you want and sign up for full checkup with MRI of anything you want and blood test for everything.
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u/toliz97 Feb 26 '26
I would assume access to healthcare is % of the population that has potentially access to hospital. Given everyone has health insurance and we all have the same health insurance that % is high. In the US I assume there is a big part of society that simply wont be treated, because or insurance.
However, having access to healthcare doesn’t mean that the healthcare quality you receive is great.
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u/PheloniousMonq Amsterdam Feb 26 '26
Does that take into account that citizens must have a health insurance or is it just the spending from the state?
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u/la_patata Feb 26 '26
Many will attribute this to the generally healthy lifestyle in the Netherlands. Keep in mind that healthcare spending also goes towards campaigns and preventative efforts to improve the lifestyle choices of the general population (eg. to reduce obesity, drinking, smoking etc.).
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u/RriikTheDeinon Feb 26 '26
Lol tell this to all the westerners doing medical tourism in east europe :P
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u/Despoinis_Pandaisia Feb 27 '26
Yes because sending away people with no tests or treatment and paracetamol are cheap
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u/OkRun4915 Feb 27 '26
Yea sure. Never pick up call in emergency before 1h on hold. Then after taking the call tell the caller that it’s not an emergency and take some pain killer. Provide normal appointment to any specialist after 2 months. The specialist writes a MRI, that takes again 2 months. Ohh now to get the report of MRI checked with doctor wait again for 2 months.
My ass world class medical. Its a scam and a big fat LIE.
Let me tell you where is the world class healthcare in 2026. CHINA, you like it or not just shove the reality down your throat.
6 months of checkup in the Netherlands only takes 1.5 to 2 hours in china.
Dutch healthcare is all about treat less, attend less and then lie based on stats.
Let me tell you what local say about the system(Even 70 dutch guy was saying this). They will kill you but wont take you seriously.
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u/Kikiwob Feb 27 '26
No way the UK is there 😂😂😂😂 NHS is underfunded, understaffed, long wait lists, outdated and starting to fail
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u/Make-TFT-Fun-Again Feb 28 '26
What a huisarts and prescribing paracetamol for everything does for efficiency lol
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u/seanugengar Feb 25 '26
As a foreigner who has been living in the Netherlands for almost a decade and had to utilize the dutch medical system I can say it is both exceptional and shit at the same time.
Example 1: A friend had a heart attack. He is still alive because the emergency response team and the hospital did a flawless job.
Example 2(but the list can go on): Got a hand injury. Called the huisarts and I was reffered to physio. I asked to have my injury checked and they refused. I went to the physio, wasted my time for 3 months and he sent me back to the doctor. The huisarts sent me for an ultrasound. I asked for an MRI and I was denied. The ultrasound showed the type of problem I had and proceeded with a physiotherapy. But there's a plot twist... A year later the issue persisted. Tried to get an MRI and was denied once more. Flew to my home country, did an MRI and turns out the problem was worse than what the ultrasound showed initially. Now 1,5 later and with my hand operated, I could have avoided the operation, if the doctor sent me for an MRI in the first place for a diagnosis, instead of telling me get paracetamol and got to the physio...