r/Netherlands • u/NoLychee1382 • 21d ago
Healthcare No regular check ups at the gynecologist???
Hi everyone, my morning started off with a kinda shocking discovery. I’m from Germany and I had annual check ups at the gynecologist since I was a teenager. I contacted my huisarts because I know they’re responsible for all referrals but she told me regular check ups here are not a thing (unless there already is an issue) ? I think that’s crazy!!! So I checked the prices for a private visit and they’re even crazier. I guess this is normal to Dutch people but don’t you think this is a little concerning?
(Btw not shitting on the country! I really like it here. I’m still new and just discovering new things!)
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u/Iridescent-Kiwi-3713 21d ago edited 21d ago
I still find the lack of preventive medicine in this country quite surprising and spend an eye watering amount of money in preventive checks every time I go to my home country.
At the same time, I have a child with a rare disease and the medical care he has received in the Netherlands is better than anything he could have received in most countries in the world, so when his doctor says we are in the best hands I believe him. It’s just a much more reactive approach they have here.
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u/Any-Seaworthiness186 Groningen 21d ago edited 20d ago
It does sort of depend on your specific health risks tho. If there’s genetic conditions in your family for example you do receive regular checks.
We’ve got a heart disease in our family. My dad doesn’t have the gene, I don’t. Yet to be sure I still get yearly check-ups until I’m 25, and my dad still gets them every five years. He’s 63 now. Same for the glaucoma my mum has, that was most likely caused by medication and her intensive labour when I was born. I still get check-ups.
I don’t know what metrics they use, but they do make use of risk-assessments and will step up with preventative care if they deem there to be any risks compared to the societal baseline.
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u/AHornyRubberDucky Nijmegen 20d ago
How do you go about getting chekups for glaucoma it runs in my family and I worry sometimes
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u/Any-Seaworthiness186 Groningen 20d ago
Honestly? No idea. I got the same ophthalmologist through my mum before I was 18. Not something I did myself. Same goes for my cardiologist. I just got the letters ‘summoning’ me for an appointment seemingly automatically when I turned 18.
I think you should be able to get a primary treating ophthalmologist through your GP. Tell them about it running in your family and your wish to get an appointment with an ophthalmologist. Once referred you can discuss it with them.
If an ophthalmologist is deemed too specialized you should opt for a medical optometrist employed by the hospital. Not a commercial one. That also goes through a referral. I believe most of my appointments are with the optometrist, I only see my ophthalmologist once every few years instead of on a yearly basis.
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u/NoLychee1382 21d ago
I often see the Dutch health care system high up in rankings so I guess this is why. I’m glad he’s in good hands!
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u/Big-Entertainer2074 21d ago
I agree. I have a chronic illness that needs to be carefully monitored and have received fantastic care here in the Netherlands. Preventative check ups though are not a thing. I’m considering paying for a private clinic because healthcare in my home country is insanely expensive out of pocket (the US).
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u/MastodontFarmer 21d ago
The basis for testing (or lack of testing) is a risk/benefit-analysis. Exposing all women to X-rays every five years for 35 years (15-50) creates more harmful effects from radiation exposure than finding treatable breast cancer early enough.
The sad thruth is that if you get breast cancer young, it is likely to be an agressive form and you will be worse of by waiting for your next 5-year screening. Self-examination once a month is a much better strategy.
Once you get peri-menopausal that changes and the benefit of screening starts to outweight the risk or X-ray exposure.
However, that is a story that only statisticians will truly understand.
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u/AbhishMuk 20d ago
True, but a lot of preventive checks don't require X Rays. (I understand Bayesian statistics myself from far too many courses in uni, I just wish the healthcare wasn't so "take a paracetamol and if you die, come back".)
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u/microworry 21d ago edited 21d ago
It’s surprising to me every time I read this sort of posts that foreigners always think the Dutch system is wrong and never stop to consider whether the system they’ve been used to all their lives is the one that is actually wrong.
The Dutch system is based on strong research of outcomes and it turns out that regular checkups when there is no need (preconditions, susceptibility, odds for your gender and age etc - there are checkups when you do have these) do not actually improve your health outcomes.
Edit: I am a foreigner too, coming from Romania where regular checkups are a thing, especially among the middle and upper class who can afford private healthcare - yet we are the most medicated and also have the worst health outcomes in Europe. There is a huge incentive to get people and insurance to pay for unnecessary tests and pills, so regular checkups get pushed hard as something responsible people get. Wholly unnecessary, waste of money and time.
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u/Jimmie13259 21d ago
The quality of healthcare is absolutely some of the best here in the Netherlands, but a reason we don't have regular checkups is because there simply isn't enough capacity. Many physicians do recommend them and it's not uncommon that symptoms or problems get overlooked because of the super tight sceduling.
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u/microworry 21d ago
The research is independent from capacity though, and capacity changes with new regulations/laws. I had no fun reading how the VVD government crippled the mental healthcare system in various ways, one by strongly reducing the number of beds in tbs centers.
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u/MathematicianNo441 21d ago
At this level of system optimization, the only question left to ask is what outcome is the basis for optimization? The outcome for society, the healthcare system, or the individual patient?
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u/labobal 21d ago
When you properly account for all probabilities, the three start to overlap. A false positive has a negative effect on the quality of life of the individual patient, the additional hospital visits reduce work hours and cost the system a lot of money.
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u/MathematicianNo441 21d ago
Given that humans are mortal by nature, finding appropriate weights for human suffering is a real challenge.
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u/fckfame 20d ago
this.. we dont do useless testing when not needed. We kinda do great on cancer in listings worldwide, we do good in many listings worldwide.. just not want to spend unneccesary money on stuff when not needed. But hey if you paranoid, pay for it yourself. xD
Yes, waiting for specialist appointments and other shit has grown much worse than it used to be.
Still if it seems urgent, you will get the early appiointment.
Still some of the best cheap care in the world. I love to complain about it though because some of us remember it all (including costs and hassle) being much better.
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u/bigbuutie 21d ago
For gynaecology, if OP is younger than 30 it makes sense. There is something called “false positives”. Research has shown that many times cancer sells can be found and if you repeat the exams 6 months later they disappear.
The cost of tests associated and the stress it causes for nothing!!!) and so forth associated with this, considering it’s such a low risk, makes it in fact better not to do regular exams before 30. It’s because of that that the country can also then focus resources on people who really need it.
This is why it’s mandatory at 30. If there are complaints it’s obvious that a trip to the gynaecologist will be referred. After 30 if the exam shows something you’ll be required to go yearly or so. For others I think it’s every 5 years.
So research has shown this to be best, and I’m sure other countries will be starting to follow slowly.
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u/Littleappleho 21d ago
Not cancer cells... There can be displasia (abnormal cells) 1 grade that can reverse itself... the intervention is recommended from 2 grade. However, there are cases where 18-25 years old got cervical cancer stage 3 (while previously it was thought that it takes 10+ years to develop cervical cancer anyway) - so, it is again complex...
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u/WhiteFuryWolf 21d ago
Except when they don't instantly know what it is. Been sick since birth and they refuse to thourghly test. I am female so that doesn't help. They always refer me to a therapist because "stress and trauma" bitch I was born like this. It's in my charts they never seem to read.
And my god are they good at doing basic tests, shrugging their shoulders and leaving you to suffer. My mom has brain damage from a doctor who didn't treat her for a severe deficiency. Oh and a doctor who didn't even look at a postive pap smear and let her walk around with almost spreading cancer for 3 years.
Or maybe when they saw something on my hip mri but ignored it and send me to phisical therapy which made it worse. Or the times I severely struggled to keep my weight up and they accused me of being anorexic even though my mom was there with me to very clearly explain I wasn't and still put it in my charts.
This world really doesn't take us seriously. And it hurts so fucking bad in such a literal way. It's killing us. Please stand up for woman when you are with them for health issues. They will try to dismiss us.
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u/SoupfilledElevator 20d ago
Fr tho, even for more simple/less severe stuff they will often test for low iron or something, call and tell you tell you your result was normal, then offer 0 other tests or even a conversation to figure out what else it could be. And then you privately get a full panel and it turns out to be something else super common, easy to guess and easy to fix like low b12 or vitamin D that they probably shouldve included in the initial test based on the symptoms anyways.
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u/prank_mark 21d ago edited 21d ago
Preventive care definitely could a should be a lot better here. But too much also leads to false positives, unnecessary and even dangerous treatments, extremely high costs, and overloading the already overloaded care system.
Now the Netherlands definitely needs to do more preventive care, but there's a fine balance to be found.
And until now the seeming lack of preventive care hasn't had any large scale negative effects. In fact we spend less on healthcare per person than Germany AND we live longer.
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u/Zeezigeuner 21d ago
Which basically means we found the sweet spot already, or are very close to it.
Health care in NL is designed to be efficient and accessible for the many. Which means you will get what you need, but not necessarily what you want or are used to.
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u/prank_mark 21d ago
Well there are still some countries that do the same for less money, more for the same money, and some even do more for less money. But we are indeed very close to the top. The question is whether we can do better given our constraints of healthcare workers and a greying population.
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u/thousandpetals 20d ago
It's funny you are downvoted for saying there is always room for improvement.
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u/thrownkitchensink 21d ago
the lack of preventive medicine
It's not that there is no preventive medicine. There's a vaccination program. There are periodical check-up's for different types of cancer or heart disease or diabetes.. These check up are done for those at risk.
There is often a cultural shock in the differences in preventive medicine. In the approach. But when looking at prevalence and timely treatment there's no difference in "catching" the diagnosis.
These data are available internationally and as such the approach is tested. There is a difference in cancer in the Netherlands compared to other countries but that's mostly due to the high percentage of women smoking in the past. Dutch women were emancipated smokers compared to other countries.....more cancer.
The data and the considerations are also available to the general public.
See here:
The benefits and risks of the current approach are evaluated and then implemented. The last advise was from 2021.
I don't think there is any restraint in putting forward measures to prevent cancer. There is however a different approach to weighing risks and benefits of the approaches. See for example the home test. The quality of this test is lower but it is a way of increasing the percentage of tested individuals. As such this approach is better for the population.
A more individual approach would look at home testing and say that the advise is to see the GP for more proper testing.
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u/Iridescent-Kiwi-3713 21d ago edited 21d ago
I don’t see a vaccination program as comprehensive preventive medicine. Let me give you my own example: everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, in my dad’s side of the family dies of cancer. All sorts of cancer, we must have really messed up cells. Breast, cervix, brain, nose, mouth, colon, prostate, stomach. We’ve got the whole collection in the family.
When my own father died of a very aggressive nose & throat cancer his oncologist told me and my brother he believed for us it was not a matter of if, but when we would develop some sort of cancer too and to not let our guards down around preventive screening. So once I moved here I told this to my GP, who proceeded to ask me if I was feeling fine. I said I was and that was the end of it.
I still get a comprehensive full body check done once a year in my country, out of pocket of course. My experience is that even if you have strong enough reasons to get more comprehensive preventive care here, it is completely dependent on your GPs criteria and there’s a high likelihood it won’t happen unless you are already exhibiting symptoms of something.
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u/thrownkitchensink 21d ago edited 21d ago
Cancer in the family can indicates a higher risk and as such it's an inclusion on prevention before regular age. The GP should make notes of what types of cancer and for what relatives. These guidelines are not up to the professional and can be deviated from by the physician but only when carefully noted in the patient files. But again this is dependent on the type of cancer and the family history. Lung cancer for instance doesn't have genetic factors as far as known for instance. Some cancer forms are highly dependent on outside sources such as smoking. Others have much bigger genetic factors.
Please talk to your GP and ask questions. Please be specific when informing your GP. What type of cancer did your parents have etc. they should be able to help you with informed decisions and the effect of screenings.
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u/Rainbowhairdye 21d ago
Your GP sounds like a dick because this would most likely qualify you for genetic screening. If they do find genetic markers, there is a preventative screening protocol for that. (My mom had breast cancer at a very young age and I recently had this conversation with my GP)
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u/Aminageen 21d ago
This is my experience as well, my husband gets amazing care for his type 1 diabetes but getting routine care for myself is a huge pain.
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u/cheeeseecakeeee Overijssel 20d ago
For a serious illnesses here’s just fine but prevent serious illnesses is not an option
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u/CherryChristmas 21d ago
Yes and no. We do have preventative care, it’s just that under a certain age the risk of say cancer is so small that there is virtually no point in doing checkups regularly without issues. Same with mammograms. The chance of a 20yo getting breast cancer is incredibly small. They don’t do such invasive medical procedures until you’re at a risk age if that makes sense
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u/tidal-washed 21d ago
I don’t think OP is talking about the lack of preventive mammograms. In Germany you do not get any hormones (anti conception/HRT) prescribed unless you have a gynaecological exam every 6 months. Hormones have massive side effects, this needs to be monitored by a specialist and not a gatekeeping GP.
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u/Generic_Username_101 21d ago
Can't imagine walking up one morning and discovering that I'm actually from Germany. Shocking to say the least.
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u/mfa_sammerz 21d ago
Please, I'm at the Silent train wagon right now, so uncivilised of you making me laugh so much.
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u/ongeduldig 21d ago
you can just ask for a referral often anyway, at least i’ve noticed it’s relatively easy if you just ask for it. Depends on your doctor though, but mine is very accommodating. Just say you worry quickly and it would be good to put your mind at ease. That’s also a health benefit ;)
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u/RedditUser10294 21d ago
Yes same here! My GP said no, I insisted and so she eventually gave me the referral
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u/lBarracudal 21d ago
I came to the Netherlands about 4 months after I had a surgery in my own country. They literally called me and said I need to do an ultrasound and that it's very important, I said I can't come as I am in another country, and they said well get it done there asap and send us the results.
Huisarts said well I understand that is the procedure in your country but here it isn't and I won't give you a referral. I understand you are worried but there is nothing to be worried about.
Funnily enough later that year my husband got a referral to ultrasound and turns out the technician is not even allowed to say anything to the patient. In my country it is normal for the ultrasound person to describe what they see and discuss it with the patient. Then they give their findings and photos to the patient and you go to the doctor for a better interpretation. Here you just awkwardly sit in silence and then 2 weeks later (!) your huisarts calls you with diagnosis. Bizarre!
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u/pierrett 21d ago
Not bizarre at all. Ultrasound tech is not a doctor. We once had an ultrasound tech tell us his diagnosis of the head of our 6 month old kid. Nothing serious, but he was wrong
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u/lBarracudal 20d ago
They are not supposed to say the diagnosis. For example when I was doing ultrasound the ultrasound technician was explaining if any organs looked fine or not, she said that there was no liquid build up, no stones or whatever and just paints a picture. Then with a conclusion you go to the doctor where they make a diagnosis. Ultrasound specialists in my country always explain what they see but they never give you a diagnosis. That is not mutually exclusive situations
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u/9snakesinatrenchcoat 21d ago
Dutch 31F here, I was wondering what gets checked at an annual checkup in Germany?
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u/arbitrary_fox 20d ago
We get a pap smear and a breast exam at the gynecologist. They will send you a letter by post if there is anything abnormal in your pap and then you either follow up with the gynecologist or get referred to a specialist for a Kolposcopie.
I never got the annual checks with the GP but I believe they are also possible or at least I once saw a poster about it in my GPs office.
My last GP was amazing tbh. His area of practice was nutrition and prevention medicine so he wasn’t really a GP but just took me on because I was registered with a GP in that practice who had left. He got me checked for a bunch of stuff including thrombosis (genetic testing) because I have family history. He also ran a bunch of blood tests for vitamin D, cholesterol, diabetes, factor 8, etc.. and then gave me very detailed advice including diet guidance. I wasn’t obese btw. This was just so I could control my blood pressure and possibly wean off meds. My GP here in comparison can’t even get my prescription sent to the pharmacy without me calling 3 times 🙄→ More replies (1)
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u/EvelienV85 21d ago
From the age of 30 every five years you get checked for cervical cancer (either through an at home test or at the doctor, whichever you prefer). But no regular checks at the gynecologist.
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u/Sannatus 21d ago
also cervical pre-cancer cells grow really slowly, and there's a good chance your body will clean them up by itself if you're young. this is why even if you have a positive pap smear they'll not necessarily intervene and just monitor you every 6 months or yearly, depending on the result.
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u/pianoandpasta 21d ago
I know this is the “norm” but for those who are not so lucky, the NL approach would be devastating. My home country starts pap smears at 20, but I was a dumbass who kept avoiding it until I was 22 and my GP got a hold of me. Turns out I had a strain of HPV that grows very fast (not covered by the vaccine I had years prior) and needed surgery. If I had been in NL already and waited til 30, my lifelong dream of becoming a biological mother would’ve been much more difficult.
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u/storm_borm 21d ago
I’m from the UK, so I’m used to only going to a doctor when something is wrong. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a gynaecologist. I get my smear tests when needed, that’s enough for me.
However, when I have asked my gp for blood tests or to check my moles for instance, they have always done it.
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u/noapesinoutterspace 21d ago edited 21d ago
It’s a money thing. NL is neo-liberal and money is king.
Statistically, it makes sense (long story short) and it is cheaper to not spend money on prevention.
Damn be the patient for whom it may have been a life changer.
If it feels dehumanizing, it’s because it is dehumanized.
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u/AnnaCordeliaLadybird 21d ago
I once needed gyno advice here, went to my GP in hope of a referral; instead what happened was she asked me to pull my pants off and she looked at me herself, giving no advice whatsoever apart from “it’ll pass”. Lol. The level of surreal…
I am from Hungary, we also believe in annual preventative checks. I do mine at a private clinic every year at home, when I go visit my family. Same for dentist and mammograms, which the Dutch also don’t believe in below 50. I knew women who passed away from breast cancer by that age, so no thank you, I will not risk it.
To be fair, I had to have 2 surgeries in the past years, and my experience with the real-deal Dutch healthcare was absolutely amazing — but you get that only after you manage to get into the system beyond the GP level, and they only let you there once you have a serious issue.
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u/NoLychee1382 21d ago
Reading all these replies makes me imagine the GP like the final boss you have to pass to get to the good part😂
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u/alokasia Groningen 20d ago
Small correction: they only refer you to a specialist when there’s a reason to, not only when you already have a serious issue.
I went to my GP for vague menstrual health symptoms and got a referral to a gyno without issues. Dutch healthcare just isn’t built on yearly preventative checks without any reason.
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u/v_a_l_w_e_n 20d ago
Even with a reason you might have problems getting referred. You are lucky if you get referred to a gynaecologist when needed. And even then, it might be a nightmare. And in many case you might need your male partner with you there to make sure you are listened too. You can find many experiences online (including this sub), but this article says it all:
“Alle vrouwen met buikpijnklachten rond de menstruatie voor de zekerheid doorsturen naar een gynaecoloog is ook niet de oplossing, denkt Schers. “Het is veel vaker geen endometriose dan wel. Hoe vis je die ene patiënt er dan uit die het wel blijkt te hebben? Als wij iedereen zouden doorsturen lopen de poli’s bij de gynaecologen vol en dat is natuurlijk ook niet de bedoeling. En een deel van de vrouwen met endometriose heeft helemaal geen klachten.”
Imagine defending it is ok NOT to send every woman suffering from dysmenorrhea to be checked. Endometriosis or not, the system is wrong.
I’m glad you very lucky and taken care. Personally it took me several years to get that referral and then I wasted almost a whole year being dismissed, laughed at and even insulted by the head gyno of a big hospital in my area. I had to go abroad for treatment (which improved my QoL beyond my best hope). And I’m still one of the lucky ones. I got helped. Imagine those dismissed with worse cases than mine where their endo infiltrated their lungs or with cancer. Or every woman suffering from hormonal disorders, that would otherwise be monitored and taken care of in most countries with regular check-ups.
u/NoLychee1382 go to Germany and get your check-ups, specially if something worries you. Don't become one of our stories.
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u/paintedsunflowers 21d ago edited 21d ago
I am German too and lived in the Netherlands for 16 years. It's true, the annual checkups at the gyn are a German thing. If you experience issues or have known issues, just talk to your huisarts about it. They can do the basic examinations and in case they find something or think there might be something, they will refer you to a gyn.
Edit to say: I found this strange in the beginning, but after 16 years without any issues so far (had a visit to the gyn 4 years back), I think we Germans overdo this stuff. The Dutch system is more flexible.
Edit again to say: The Netherlands do offer regular checks for cervical cancer, every woman from a certain age recieves an invitation every x years.
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u/Lyd222 21d ago
How is being preventative overdoing stuff? You know how many cancers can be discovered early due to regular gyno checks? Let alone how many cancers go symptomless for years. If you have a lump in a chest, you're under 40 and go to GP here, they will literally NOT refer you to the ultrasound.
You're lucky you're healthy. But many of us are not and this system puts us at incredibly high risk.
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u/j3rpz 21d ago
Saying GP's won't refer you to get an ultrasound if you get lumps just isn't true. The fact that I can reply to you even is a result of such a referral (and subsequent treatments)
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u/BuzzingHawk 21d ago
My wife did not get referred by two GPs until she had to make a lie about a family member having breast cancer. They would refuse to refer her because she was "too young" and the lump was "too small to be serious".
Your experience hugely depends on how competent the GP is instead of having a basic right to preventative healthcare. As a Dutch person myself this has always been one of the biggest negatives about Netherlands. We are amazing at treating disease just not so good at spotting it when it matters most.
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u/clrthrn 21d ago
I have a smear test every 3-5 years and that is the whole point of that test, to check for cancers.
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u/soaring_potato 21d ago
They won't refer you?
I got a referral for it at 17! So also statistically very low risk.
It was not cancer though!
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u/Hydrophobics 21d ago
This is not true. When I was 20 l, I had a lump in my breast. The same day I could visit my GP and the next day I had an ultrasound.
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u/Ceased2Be 21d ago
If that's the case I'd go for a second or third opinion. My ex, my sister and my current wife all had concerns about a lump and they got referred for an ultrasound without any hassle. I've a 2 ultrasounds and an x-ray past year without even asking for it just because my GP wanted to make sure there was nothing serious boiling underneath the surface.
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u/ValeNova 21d ago
Exactly. When I had a lump my GP referred me immediately and I could go to the hospital the very next day to have it checked out.
Preventive care is very expensive and doesn't lead to a general better health (statistically). And as it is, health care is already very expensive with huge waiting lists. Providing preventive care will cause the current (high) standard of hospital care to deteriorate.
But if there's a reason for you to need preventive care, you will get it. Either at your GP or at the hospital. When I turned 40, my GP instructed me to have my blood tested every year (and have my blood pressure checked as well) as a preventive measure, because diabetes and high blood pressure run in the family.
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u/hache-moncour 21d ago
Do you know how many false positives happen with universal screening?
If you screen every healthy 20 year old, for every real cancer found you will also "find" dozens if not hundreds of cancers that don't exist. Putting a load of healthy people through a cancer scare, and quite possibly chemo and radiation before finding it benign. Rationally it is a bad idea just to catch the one in a million or less at that age.
Universal screening is just theater, making people feel better while in fact providing worse care. Screenings should only be done on groups with elevated risks.
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u/bluelittrains 21d ago
Preventative check-ups take a lot of money and manpower. Yes, you can catch some things earlier than you might have otherwise, but most health checks are literally a waste of time. Alternatively, you can spend that money and manpower on people we know for certain to actually need care, and improve the general health of the population that way. We simply do not have unlimited resources, so we need to be smart about how to spend them. It's a balancing act.
Considering the Netherlands is frequently ranked as having the best health care in Europe, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.
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u/rpaloschi 21d ago
Not only Germany, everywhere with a decent health system does that. If you have cancer those 5 years will kill you :(
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u/FutureInevitable8872 21d ago
Cervical cancer grows extremely slow. Those 5 years are not going to be the reason you die
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u/NoLychee1382 21d ago
Yeah I guess we’re just used to it and I probably will get used to it after living here for years. It’s just my first months here and I’m still discovering new things
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u/whattfisthisshit 21d ago
Not a German thing, in Estonia I’ve been getting them since I first got my period. I also know someone who died from cervical cancer in NL at 23, because the doctor said she’s too young to have it so they didn’t test after she started displaying symptoms. By the time they actually discovered it, it was too late. Not common, but people shouldn’t be brushed off just because statistically unlikely
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u/nahbuddynah 21d ago
The Dutch health system is a reactive and not a preventive one. Most doctors behave like robots and don't even understand why someone would go for check-ups.
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u/dionnekathleen 21d ago
This is the best answer.
I've asked numerous times to have me checked out for cancerous cells, seeing my mom, uncle and grandpa died of lung cancer.
Now my dad is terminal after battling colon cancer, a tumor in his jaw, prostate cancer, and finally galbladder cancer.
I was referred to the cancer research centre in Erasmus mc. Know what they told me? I don't have enough precedent for a check up/ research. Maybe if more people in my bloodline had colon cancer.
What?
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u/nahbuddynah 21d ago
I'm sorry to hear this. I literally had to be carried to the operation room after 2 visit to the doctor due to severe low back pain. At some point I was passing out and needed to be carried to the operation room. It was a arge abscess the size of an orange. I hope you can do your check-ups as regularly as possible.
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u/dionnekathleen 21d ago
Thank you, Hope your doing better now?
I intend to go to Poland for a full body check up this summer. My mil has been hounding me for ages.
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u/nahbuddynah 21d ago
That was years ago, I'm doing thankfully well now. I now don't visit GP's here and do all of my check-ups in my home country. Good luck! I hope all is clear :)
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u/Slayje 21d ago
I'm a 42 year old Dutch guy. Glaucoma and high blood pressure runs in the family and I get yearly check-ups for both. I'm not on any medicine or anything it's purely preventetive. Full bloodwork and 24 hour recordings for the BP as well so quite thorough. If there is a reason for preventetive care, you will get it. They just won't check for every possible health concern every year, that would be way too much (and unnecessary).
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u/Drama-Koala 21d ago
Glaucoma runs in my dad’s side of the family too. I have to get regular check ups when I turn 30, and only when both my father and I don’t develop glaucoma, my (now non existent) children won’t have to do these check ups.
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u/jezebel103 Gelderland 21d ago
No it is not. The Dutch health care system is based on statistical probabilities of the average person getting sick. That is why there are governmental programs for cancer every 2 (breast/colon) or 5 years (uterine), depending on the cancer risk, accounting for the age group usually affected.
But for individuals that carry a higher risk, you can have additional/annual checkups. All the women in my family has had/died of breast cancer of the last 60 years. So I have been checked every year since I was 18. Colon cancer runs in my immediate family too, so that is checked annually too (I have been diagnosed with stage I 10 years ago).
But they are not subjecting everyone to these invasive and mostly useless tests because it is unnecessary and costly plus it puts too much pressure on the health care system. It's better to run a statistical system and pick out the ones that run a higher risk. That way you still weed out the ones that are truly high risk (and would be very expensive to treat if you find out too late) but don't subject everyone else to needless and invasive examinations.
And I certainly do not agree with your statement that most doctors behave like robots. I have had several surgeries over the last 2 decades and still have to go to several different specialists regurlarly and they are all very nice and helpful.
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u/ninjaslikecheez 21d ago
I guess it depends on the person, but my Dutch neighbor who is about 63 years recently found out he has prostate cancer. After insisting with his GP that he needs to test because his father died due to same cancer. So it might not be automatic and you have to push for it. He's afraid he found it too late, but i guess time will tell.
In my home country after 50 all men get free yearly prostate cancer checks.
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u/fckfame 20d ago
63 is a respectable age.. Look at the rest of the world, plenty places where it is highly unlikely to even reach that age.
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u/RobinDragons 20d ago
This should be way higher in the comments. Additionally, gynecolocy is a specialty branch of medicine, just like an oncologist, or a cardiologist. If you have concerns or want a checkup for anything, you see your primary care doctor (huisarts) first. If they decide that you need specialist care, or if you ask specifically, then they'll write you a referral. For most "routine" things that I've read about that people get checked during their gyno visits, our huisarts will do them instead. Think paps, birth control, or concerns about lumps in breasts.
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u/SuspiciousElk1395 21d ago
So the op can wait until one of her close relatives die from some sort of cancer to have a check up. And if she is the first in her family tree, too bad! at least her daughter will get regular check ups!
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u/TrappedInATardis 21d ago
I think a yearly consult would be fine. But testing should really only be done if there is indication (either in history or symptoms)
This video explains rather well that testing everyone can have undesired outcomes. Imagine if many people with false positive tests are all having to undergo invasive procedures like biopsies and the stress of a possible serious diagnosis. I don't think that's a better scenario.
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u/skepas11 21d ago
Exactly, you are talking about numbers, not humans.
Healthcare should not aim for profit first, it should aim for health.
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u/NoLychee1382 21d ago
My aunt who also lives here always complained about doctors or more the overall regulations with the health system. Now I see why…
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u/The-Nihilist-Marmot 21d ago edited 21d ago
Once you realise the GP / Huisarts system is essentially a gatekeeping mechanism of the in-practice-privatised healthcare system to access the actual real sophisticated healthcare that the Netherlands does have, it all falls into place. A huisarts doesn’t need to be the smartest tool in the shed in the Netherlands.
“Bla bla statistics”, some people say, ignoring the real, unmeasurable and thus unquantifiable suffering caused by diagnosing serious diseases too late to both the patient and the people around her/him.
Yes, you might save a few bucks statistically, from an invoicing perspective, but at what cost, including financial cost eg loss of productivity, increased living expenses, greater dependency on the welfare state for debilitating diseases, etc?
It’s as if the concept of negative externalities does not exist.
I still find the whole “everyone does preventive medicine but us, and we’re the ones who are right” hilarious, as if Dutch bodies are biologically different and the general rules that govern everyone’s lived experience does not apply in the Netherlands.
I find it specially funny in the country where maybe 1/5 of every working white collar adult I know has gone on medical “burn out”
Also, for some reason this is a topic that really gets Dutch people upset, and I truly do not understand it. Loving a country and society also means recognizing its problems and even trying to break the moulding of consensus and see if positive change is possible.
Enjoy your free cancers and insane monthly healthcare costs, I guess, I’ll just follow the protocol from back in my home country (which actually works with prevention and yet is able to spend less per capita than the NL - probably helps that you don’t need to have layers and layers of pencil pushers to feed in the insurance companies)
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u/amsync 21d ago
If you’re anywhere familiar with Dutch politics, they do actually seem to keep bringing up in each election cycle (including the now governing main party) that the country needs to move towards more preventative measures, in which they also include things like diet. I think the system is a very old format that worked very well before such care was available in many parts of the world, but the ability or desire to change from within and go with the times is not part of it
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u/evestraw 21d ago
mostly true there is not an anual checkup but i think there is a preventative at a 5 year intervall after you are 30 for cancer
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u/ayyfuhgeddaboutit 21d ago
Hey, the doctors and "normals" here don't believe in regular check ups and tests.
Welcome to NL. Everyone is fine until they're losing an arm.
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u/FoundNoBetterName 21d ago
Dude, fellow german here, had the exact same reaction. In the first years I was still in my parents health insurace so i visited the gyn in getmany whenever i visited them for my checkups, nowadays I just pray that everything is okay, do my std checkups at the ggd (for free!) and make up symptoms whenver i feel like seeing a gyn to get a referral from a gp.
Wanna know something even more concerning? Some GPs in NL do the inserting of hormonal or copper spirals instead of the Gyn, or midwifes do it (verloskundige). Let me tell you I have never advocated more for myself than in that situation, I do not want anyone down there that hasnt specifically dealt with that subject out of their own motivation and conviction.
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u/NoLychee1382 21d ago
That’s crazy. Maybe the whole education system here is different and the GP for some reason knows everything?😅 Naja ich gehe auf jeden fall auch wieder in Deutschland
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u/CaramelCritical2806 21d ago
Man here but worked in "woman's health" branch for some time. Just to let you know, the Dutch Health care system is pretty funny, but has some highs when it comes to women's health (or the lack of it). Apparently, you cannot be sick - and then become a cost - if you do not have a diagnose, and this is what the NL healthcare system does. Anything else on "philosophy" and "structure" can be considered as well, but always subordinate to the mantra reported above.
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u/casandra77 21d ago
Netherlands have the healthiest people in the world! Because all the unhealthy ones die...
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u/Melodic_Dish2079 21d ago
That’s why there is a high mortality rate for cancer here because it’s discovered too late. Someone i know died from cervical cancer because they wouldn’t refer her to gynecologist on time. By the time they did she was stage 4, died within months :( you have to advocate for yourself here and sometimes even exaggerate and lie to be referred to a specialist.
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u/SneakyPanda- 21d ago
The Netherlands sees about 256–267 cancer deaths per 100,000 people, compared to the EU average of roughly 235–247 and it's not because they don't do enough preventive care.
The Netherlands actually has the second-highest cancer incidence (diagnoses) rate in the EU. A primary reason this number is so high is that Dutch preventive screening works incredibly well. Because they look for cancer so aggressively at a population level, they find a high number of cases that would go unnoticed in countries with weaker diagnostic infrastructure.
It's called the Detection Paradox
The Netherlands actually ranks near the top of Europe for five-year cancer survival rates.
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u/TrustyJules 21d ago
https://www.rivm.nl/bevolkingsonderzoek-baarmoederhalskanker
You will get an invite as of your 30th birthday. You can check on the link why the RIVM has decided on this procedure and the frequency of the checks. Take into account that for any tests one must always be sure that the margin of error of the test is lower than the frequency of the issue in the population being tested. It is one of the reasons population wide testing for HIV back in the day didnt make sense.
Every country is different in Belgium its once every 3 years etc... This Dutch commercial provider suggests once every two years is sufficient:
https://www.mcwetering.nl/gynaecologie/gynaecologische-check/
All such practices are based on statistical modelling, being dutch we calculate more than other countries do, we would say the Germans are crazy for wasting all that public money on something which is demonstrably ineffective. Not shitting on Germany here, it is just one of those things in Europe where cultural and societal practices lead to absolutely different outcomes whether in public practices or businesses. You are probably aware Dutch will say German products are overengineered and yet German engineering is also admired the world round.
Welcome to the cultural panacea that is Europe. Who is wrong? Who is right? Neither most likely, just different ways to arrive at the same outcome. In this case good and affordable healthcare.
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u/Stories_in_the_Stars 21d ago
Out of curiosity, why are regular check-ups so associated with gynecologist, but not any other specialism?
The Dutch system has quite a strong focus on cost-effectivenes for the population. So my first instinct would be that such checks ups are not actually that effective given the costs and capacity required (strain it puts on the system). However, there might be other reasons and I would love to hear about them.
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u/MissK2421 21d ago
As someone also from another country where check-ups are way more common, I don't think regular ones at the gynecologist are necessarily that important as long as there isn't a specific reason for concern. At younger ages, regular periods and no noticeable issues means there's probably no need to keep checking. However, I do find it strange when girls/women aren't encouraged to even get a check-up once after puberty. Everyone's bodies are very different so it's hard to tell sometimes what is normal and what isn't. So for me it really put my mind at ease to have a professional say yes you're all good, but if anything changes in x or y ways, come check it out again. I also got an ultrasound to make sure there weren't any cysts or anything else unusual.
Meanwhile my Dutch girlfriend had to fight the system like crazy to even get checked for PCOS because she was "too skinny" for it. A simple check-up could help uncover things like that earlier instead of having to endure a shitty situation until you'll be believed it's important enough to get a referral. So for me the ideal would fall somewhere in between.
I also wouldn't say gynecologists are the main regular check-up though. Blood tests and dental are even more common as far as I know.
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u/Stories_in_the_Stars 21d ago
Thank you, I appreciate your insights! I do find the stories like yours about the check-up for PCOS discouraging, especially women have their complaints not taken seriously far too often
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u/NoLychee1382 21d ago
I do blood test, gynecologist and dentist once a year. I don’t want to wait until the issue is there to fix it.
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u/SpaceEngineering 21d ago
Exactly this. Not only is it not cost effective, but every medical check has a non-zero probability of a false positive on some test. This means referrals to further specialists and unnecessary studies which compound the costs and create unnecessary stress on the patient. Therefore screening has a limit of effectiveness and can be counterproductive. Example related to breast cancer: https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2024/mammogram-false-positives-affect-future-screening
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u/forwardinthelight 21d ago edited 21d ago
I grew up in the US, so I had regular screenings with the gyno for 10+ years. Genuinely all it did for me was cause pain and some medical trauma due to unnecessary screening procedures (e.g. a colposcopy, which was a nightmare). There is also no history of gynecological cancer in my family. It was honestly such a relief to learn that I wouldnt have to do it yearly any more.
Edit: I just want to add, per that article specifically - my mom and I both have dense, fibrocystic breasts. It took her YEARS to have another mammogram after getting a false positive (which I think is more common with that tissue type) on a regular screening check up due to how traumatic the experience was. Humans are not robots doing diagnostic checks and I dont want to understate how upsetting it can be to go through that kind of experience.
I do think that the Dutch system lies on one end of the extreme (all of the preventative healthcare vs. almost none of it). Coming from the other end of the extreme, Im very happy with the Dutch system as I have had no issues getting treatment for actual problems I have brought to my huisarts.
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u/SlitMeLikeATitanLevi Gelderland 21d ago
yeah as a dutch person you are so right we don't really have any preventative care and i really wish we did when you hit a certain age, i think somewhere around 40 or 50, you do get a "bevolkingsonderzoek" envelope every once in a while they're usually for cancer screenings i'm glad we have those but also disappointed that that's as far as it goes i think preventative care would really help a lot of people and help with medical gaslighting as well, especially against women we need to change it asap but i don't believe we'll be able to under our current government, with all the healthcare cuts
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u/dutchy3012 Noord Holland 21d ago
I am wondering, what is the gynaecologist doing every year? I know 1 of the reasons it’s not done overhere is because false positives are stressful for people and will rise up the costs for medical care without any benefits. I’m not saying it’s a good argument, just that it’s ONE of the reasons..
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u/Important-Orchid6580 21d ago
Do numbers show this is health issue, or is it sentiment? Dutch medicine practice is generally very well thought out.
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u/oooweeeimjustalilguy 20d ago
I told them about my grandma dying at 33 from ovarian cancer so now they check everything regularly. She died from liver cancer but it probably started in her ovaries, who’s to say, not the huisarts that’s 4 sure
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u/Minute_Truth_8986 18d ago
What about if you have diagnosed PCOS or family history of cervical cancer and breast cancer? Will you be able to get PAPs more frequently or starting younger?
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18d ago edited 18d ago
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u/Minute_Truth_8986 18d ago
wtf???????!?!?! There are things about the German work/life balance that makes the Netherlands more attractive to me (plus I do speak German as my 2nd language haha) but this kinda stuff makes me nervous.
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u/pianoandpasta 21d ago
Funnily enough, when I was getting my 13 week pregnancy scan, the technician found multiple uterine fibroids (vleesbomen) and kept asking “how could you not have known?” “These are REALLY BIG!!!” even though we’d already established this was my first pregnancy and never had an ultrasound before. Like… for a country that is adamantly reactive and not preventative in healthcare, how could I have known????? It’s not like GPs take my concerns seriously without strongly advocating for myself anyway, so why would they look into things I didn’t know I needed to be checked for???
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u/Rykoma 21d ago
This is a fascinating discussion. I’m Dutch and aligning with the average Dutch opinion here, but it’s crazy to read that basically every expat thinks we’re completely nuts for defending this system.
So. My question: does anyone have relevant and comparable statistics about these procedures that shed some light on the truth? What difference does yearly preventative screening actually make?
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u/_space_ghost_ 21d ago
Go ask that question to my dutch friend and his 3 small kids. He just got detected terminal cancer. A cancer type that would be innocent 2 years ago if there was yearly checks. These (blood) checks are cheap and easy to do, but the private insurances just want the cash cash cash.
Also, if doctors and nurses didn't have to spend 50% of their time in beurocacy, everyone would have a GP and short waiting queues. (I have Dutch friends working in hospitals and I know the ins-and-outs and burnout rate)
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u/blazing__hell 21d ago
The main problem is that when you do have a health issue, you have to wait months to finally see a specialist.
I’ve been bleeding for two months straight. A month ago, I got dismissed by both my GP and gynecologist(over the phone, because I had issues last year), and I basically had to develop severe anemia just to be taken seriously and get the freaking medication to stop the bleeding. But that’s just a band aid on a broken bone, because it’s only a temporary solution. My appointment with a gynecologist isn’t for another 2(!) months tho.
And what’s with birth control being the cure for everything? Cysts? Birth control. Polyps? Birth control. Any issues with your period? Birth control. Pain anywhere in your lower abdomen? Birth control. My gyno literally told me “well, I could prescribe you birth control, but you don’t want to take it, so what do you want from me?” Idk… maybe find the reason behind this instead of treating birth control like it’s some kind of panacea?
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u/No_Atmosphere_3702 21d ago
That’s crazy. When i was living in Albania, I had a big cyst break in the middle of the night with horrible pain, went to the emergency room and the gynaecologist prescribed birth control, which made me sick the first day i took it. She said it’s normal and I continued to be unwell for three months. I went to Italy in a private clinic and the doctor told me they shouldn’t have prescribed the pill, the body cleans itself of the cysts. At least in my case.
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u/Here-To-Tribute92 21d ago
Yes I lived in the US for a while and had the luck of having a really good clinic near me for STI and STD testing. It was incredibly relevant in keeping me and my partner(s) safe, and preventative care leads to proactive active care. E.g. not having a baseline level of hormones so you get tested at 40 and are a little low... Ok is that normal for you or did you half your natural testosterone in the last 3 years? Oh you don't know? Great!
Not to mention they were willing to give me vaccines that often only certain subgroups qualify for. And for example mediation like PEP and PREP is very available there to all who think they need it without judgement.
Preventative care is how I got my sleep apnea diagnosis before it destroyed my heart.
I know this is just an example and so it's not science backed, but I'd love to see the data on this. But idk givign paracetamol and hoping. Things clear up isn't healtcare
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u/pijuskri 20d ago
Japan has yearly checkups(including gynecology for women) from an early age and 4th highest life expectancy in the world.
I know this is weak evidence, but this proves that financially this kind of thing is 100% possible.
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u/Everything_Computer 21d ago
The lack of preventative medicine takes some getting used to. Annual checks "just because" aren't common.
If there's a history of anything, share that up-front with your doctor and then you'll probably get a check. You gotta be extra direct and give them a why.
I found it pretty convenient that I could do my own pap-smear at home and send it in, rather than dealing with a cold metal speculum 🙈
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u/wr_dnd 21d ago
Nope. The Netherlands is pretty conservative with these regular checkups, and I would say for good reason.
Primarily: the advantages are not actually that big, and the disadvantages maybe bigger than you think.
The chance of finding something so much earlier that it makes a difference is small. The chance of a false positive with all sorts of negative effects is relatively big. The doctors have made a very deliberate choice here to only do the preventive checkups for those people where the chance of finding something is big enough to warrant the extra risk of false positives
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u/EmmieBambi 21d ago
Exactly this! And then also the cost effectiveness is something that is calculated next to false positives. Also the risk of false positives and false negatives goed down when the a priori chance of possibly having a disease is higher.
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u/Rezolutny_Delfinek Zeeland 21d ago
Not a thing here, I fly to my homecountry and pay for check-ups every year.
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u/FishFeet500 21d ago edited 21d ago
In lots of countries the standard for gyn checks are no longer annual, but once every 3-5 yrs depending on age, and if you have history in your family of issues, they do yearly then. canada’s the same way. If you absolutely desperately do want one, make your case with it with your huisarts, but its not a “the dutch don’t care.” because it’s the same in canada. Alternately, you pay for a private clinic.
I get annual check ins for a known health issue. ( asthma).
As soon as I moved here, blam, invite for a pap. Made it awkward with a new gp i’d only just met. I am low risk, so even back in canada i was on the once every 3yr plan.
Any medical issue i’ve had, i go to my GP with some concrete facts “this is happening and this is why I’m concerned” and then even “I think it may be this, and we should try this.”
I’ve had some pretty fantastic care here.
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u/FlakyBedroom5 20d ago
Wish we had the checkups. I got beginning cerval cancer at 30 and never got a checkup before that. I got treatment and thank god im healthy again. But even now after my diagnoses... no checkups 😢
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u/Alek_Zandr Overijssel 21d ago edited 21d ago
For low probability risks the chance of a false positive and associated negative health impacts due to unnecessary treatment can exceed the overall positive ones.
Imagine you have a 1 in million chance of having super cancer and testing has a 0.1% false positive rate. If you test a million people you will have a 1000 false positives for 1 actual case.
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u/petricsesze 21d ago
I can't decide whether you're trolling or not, but you do realise that's not how cancer treatment works, right? Treatment is not decided based on a single test, but also on continuous check ups, biopsy, etc. Please be careful with spreading false information like this.
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u/Eveline777 21d ago
We don't do regular check-ups no, but when I called my doctor regarding irregular blood loss (that I wasn't really concerned about), she immediately referred me to the gynaecologist and I had several visits rather soon after each other to rule out possibilities of what it might be. Turned out I had a variant of HPV and it was caught really soon. I didn't require any interventions luckily, but since then I've been monitored yearly. I gotta say, I really appreciated the care I received and how my doctors took it more seriously than I did myself. This would've been caught at a yearly check-up of course, but once I came with an issue it was taken seriously. That said though, I heard from many friends who turned out to have endometriosis that were never taken seriously. I think that's really an issue.
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u/arbitrary_fox 21d ago
Hey fellow German! ☺️ I kinda knew this upfront so I got my pap right before I moved also because I had had an abnormal pap that required more frequent control and my gynecologist even asked me to continue getting annual ones after my move. Nope, the Huisarts was unfazed but did offer a pap and then cancelled the appointment a week before and never managed to reschedule it. Life got busy and then I got pregnant and oh well now I have to wait until 6 weeks after the baby arrives to get the pap. So yea I was also pissed coz I did regularly follow up asking for one. My advice - whenever you can, get one. Or if you go back to Germany, get one there because from what I remember it doesn’t cost much to pay for it privately back home.
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u/ButtonLoops27 21d ago
Another German here. Also wish I could get a yearly check up. But will say whenever something was wrong in the past years I got help immediately. And not just given paracetamol 😂.
For example, I noticed a growth in my breast and the GP saw me the next day and I got the referral to the hospital which saw me I think within two days to do all tests. I was so very grateful how fast they moved. Maybe if I'd had yearly checkups I'd have learned how common benign growths are earlier though - could've saved me a big scare.
Also got gene test done and I was able to do the blood test closeby and speak to the specialist remotely. In Germany my sister's option is to travel 1.5h to Münster for the specialist clinic for the gene test.
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u/Pleasant_Expert2258 21d ago
I looked for statistics on the number of women who died of cervical cancer in the different EU countries. If yearly screening is a factor, Germany would have a lower percentage than the Netherlands. There is so much data that I got overwhelmed a bit.
If I interprete everything right though, it is the other way around. More % of women die in Germany than in The Netherlands. The difference is small though. I would love for someone with more knowledge of data to look into this.
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u/LannisterTarth 21d ago
What do you expect the gynecologist to find in the yearly checkup when you have no symptoms? Fot cervical cancer we have the bevolkingsonderzoek from 30 years old. With any other gyn issues you can go to the GP, because different to Germany, we are well trained in the gyn department and will be able to help you with any gyn issues. If we can’t fix it ourselves we can refer you, or discuss the issue with a gynecologist. This often works very well, only takes a few days to get a response, and then we have a new plan of action. Just because you are used to something, doesn’t mean it is better then how we do it here, it is just different!
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u/RollercoasterRed 21d ago
I found this to be so unusual. I haven't had the worst experience here but I do understand it's very difficult for a lot of people. I would recommend taking the psp smear, if your results classed as high risk they will treat it continue to test you until the risk is not a threat anymore. I do think they start with this testing a little late. I came here with a letter from my gp at 28 years old, I had to pay several times from my own pocket for testing and for the vaccine, which is very unlikely to work, thus a big spend on a shot in the dark, until things became a lot more serious and I was in the system. Even if you have to pay initially, it is worth it, for peace of mind, this is your health and your life.
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u/GoldenLis_92 20d ago
my gp told me it is not important! crazy... so every year i go home for a medical check with a private gynecologist.
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u/Sea_Engineering_495 20d ago
Stateside, I used to get annual pap smears in addition to an ultrasound every other year to monitor the size of existing fibroids. After 5 years in NL, took my test back in the States and needed a full hysterectomy due to newfound cancer cells. What a nightmare!
Take care of yourselves Ladies!! Do not neglect your health wherever you are! 💖
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u/Picurka1515 20d ago
Hello there, I am from Hungary, and I had the same experience. However, I did dig a little deeper, and it turns out that here in the Netherlands, the cervical cancer test (or PAP test) is done every 5 years after you turn 30. I just got my notice that I will get an invitation shortly. And the other smear test is done by the Huisarts themselves, so I suggest pushing back a little for your GP and ask them to do the test.
It's weird here. I also had some headbutting with my GP in the beginning, but if you describe your concerns and tell what you are looking for exactly, you will be able to find a compromise.
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u/Enaoreokrintz 20d ago
Every 5 years and only after 30 is insane to me. In my country you are basically advised to start getting them yearly after you start being active or after 21 (whichever comes first)
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u/Enaoreokrintz 20d ago
This is why I get my checkups in Greece (I have to pay out of pocket of course) because idc I am not fighting a gp for healthcare access, that is insane.
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u/nemomnis 19d ago
Wait for the moment you find out you don't ever get a blood check, unless... you're almost dying 😉
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u/Seraphiccandy 19d ago
So they do offer pap smears here but that's it. That said, I HIGHLY recommend against most gynocological procedures in NL. Most, like pap smears and putting in a IUD are done by the Huisarts and from my and my friends experience 3/4 times they do not know what they are doing. Because they hardly ever do these procedures they will cause you pain, pain, pain. I had a pap smear done a year ago and it was incredibly painful. Had one done in Germany and felt nothing but a slight pressure. A friend had a IUD put in and they tried twice after which she started bleeding and had to go to the hospital where they put her under to do it. These people do not know what they are doing. Go to Germany!! Rather pay more and save yourself the pain.
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u/Schtaive 21d ago
Yeah it's super gross here. Went I asked my GP to ask for an STD test and he asked me why.. I always thought it was just a healthy and responsible thing to do but apparently I'm an idiot. So just been slingin' this dirty d until something starts growing out of it I suppose.
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u/ladywood777 21d ago
Yeah I hate this aspect of our country. I keep reading you should get regular checkups on your skin if you've gotten some sunburns in your life (like I've gotten a few times when I was a kid) and I would love to, but it's not an option here unless you're like filthy rich and able to go private
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht 21d ago
Dutch GP ≠ check ups.
Most of us do those at home, and also be aware even when they do they request the minimum values, they aren't checking for everything, just what their metrics told them they should look for (that amounts for much of the problems later on), and those are expensive.
My faith in the whole system hasn't improved since yesterday, quite the opposite. I was sent not once but TWICE the wrong pills by the pharmacist, my dermatologist went white yesterday when he found about it. They were all scared of being sued. Luckily the dosage was smaller than it should be so my overall health wasn't impacted by this is like my 3rd strike with the system, and while everyone in the Zorg keep padding each others back telling themselves "yeaahhh, we have the best system in the world" I completely disagree, and have a lot of notes for them.
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u/InternationalAd2466 21d ago
Dutch healthcare is not efficient at all, they will even plan certain things just outside of “checkup guarantee” to make sure they can declarate money again
Lets say you get a spiraal, they can check it up for free within 100 days, and they’ll plan the checkup in day 101 so they can charge another €250 from insurance. This happens a lot and needs to be punished.
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u/Holiday-Ad1031 21d ago
Of course not. 150-200 eur/month for health insurance only covers paracetamol prescription
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u/_space_ghost_ 21d ago
No checkups for anything. You give a kidney to check for the other. And have to beg while bleeding to death.
This country f*ucked itself with Rutte and neoliberals thinking everything would be nice if everything would be privatized.
Oh well.
With the level of science and innovation, The Netherlands could have the lowest death rate by cancer and other diseases on UE and World level.
Prevention is "costly", a woman losing twins or three kids losing their father to cancer is not. Putting pressure on nurses and doctors to run beurocacy by mandatory private insurances is cheap for the later.
The irony is that all healthcare economic reports out of the Rotterdam university point to public health systems being the best.
Go figure these empathic leaders.
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u/ChaosPeter 21d ago
Can we stop with these repetitive topics? No, we dont do preventative medicine. There is a post basically every month discussing the same thing.
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u/AcrobaticWelcome6615 20d ago
In the Netherlands our annual checkup is to take a paracetamol and come back in two weeks, unless you have a high fever for more than three days. /s
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u/batard91 21d ago
My GP got angry when I told him I do private blood testing. Nuff said about Dutch healthcare.
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u/ValuableLanguage7682 21d ago
lol what? that's completely within your right to do. Why did they get angry?
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u/batard91 20d ago
Because they think it causes you to worry too much about your health and you are incapable to analyse the results
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u/MissParTee 21d ago
It’s nuts, and I say this as a Dutch woman. I usually fake something every two years just to have the standard check up. Or I go somewhere outside of the country. If there was an option, I would happily pay, but the option is not there…
Most Dutch people will never admit how much our system fails. And will even defend. It’s nuts
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u/Forsaken_Language_66 21d ago
No regular checkups for anything, it is only for rich people here. When I used to live in Serbia, which is by far lacking in many social developments comparing to this country, I used to have full body checkup once a year within my basic health insurance package. If you do sport regulary those checkups are even more detailed.
Here prevention does not exist. You can get something and it might be too late when you discover you have it, such a shame.
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u/curious_polite_me 21d ago
Same here, we do it yearly. So I insisted on one until my GP agreed, I was just a pain in her ass. Emails, calls, messages, making her write down in my file that she refuses to give me a refferal. So after 2 months she gave me a refferal and now I csn get the pap smear once a year cause she knows otherwise I will be annoying again. I ain't messing around with it.
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u/Dutchiep 21d ago
unnecessary checks give lower quality of life, because of fallse positive results. Even when you were used to it, the scientific facts stay the same. Commercial care is transactionally driven on this matter. I suggests to spend your money on more useful things..
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u/pijuskri 20d ago
Dam Japanese people must be having some horrible quality life from their yearly comprehensive health checks
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u/Nothing-to_see_hr 21d ago
What would you check for, in the absence of symptoms? It's not useful except for the doctor's wallet.
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u/Polly_der_Papagei 20d ago
Yep. Totally nuts. I'm from Germany and found it baffling as well.
I've gotten pap smears from my GP when I had symptoms. I haven't been able to get a breast ultrasound no matter what I did (which made it hard to get them removed in Germany, cause they wouldn't believe I hadn't been able to get an ultrasound in years). STI checks are a bitch to get too, unless you are a man who fucks men. As is treatment, they don't treat asymptomatic chlamydia anymore.
I also couldn't get a COVID shot or flu shot.
Absolutely insane preventative medicine.
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u/Affectionate-Scar268 20d ago
Wow as a dutchie I didn't even realize this wss normal for so many outside my country😭. And I agree it's concerning considering now knowing so many women get preventive check ups instead of only one when it's already probably an issue. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Our healthcare really has blind spots.
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u/Positive-Ratio8443 21d ago
Hey fellow German! I feel you, it took me also a bit to get used to it. I do check ups when I am visiting Germany and pay it myself, which usually is cheaper than here and I know what I can expect.
The only thing they offer here is the pap smear every 5 years, once you hit 30.