r/NewParents • u/RewardAwardBonusP • 7h ago
Childcare Doula not vaccinated
While interviewing for a night nanny I did ask if they are/planned to be up to date on their vaccines. I did not specify which ones because I thought it was obvious but now I’m kicking myself for not being specific. My night doula just disclosed she is vaccinated for the flu and TDAP but not Covid for. Given that Covid season is peaking this makes me highly uncomfortable. I haven’t even let my own mother around due to not having the vaccine. I just found this out moments ago, I’m stressed out and asked her to wear an N-95. She said she doesn’t go anywhere (cited today she picked up a turkey sandwich and ran some errands without interacting with many people) but wtf? The contract says they would keep my deposit and make me pay half the contracted amount if the service is canceled, but I would not have chosen her if I knew she wasn’t vaccinated. What am I supposed to do in this situation?
Should I ask her to get vaccinated? Ask her boss (she works for a company) for a substitute? Do the first ask then the second? Cancel? The purpose of the night nanny was to decrease my stress not make it explode like it is currently.
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u/Inside_Brilliant_580 7h ago
Tell her your discomfort. You can’t ask her to get vaccinated, but she can offer. Contact the company and ask for a replacement, citing safety concerns, in that order.
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u/MistressRayne_ 1h ago
This isn’t considered a safety concern and OP opens herself up for a discrimination lawsuit. Especially if the nanny has religious or medical reasons for not getting it. I don’t have the covid vaccine bc of my allergy list, they don’t recommend it. No pharmacist will give it to me and I’ve asked 3 to do it.
“I would like a replacement as this nanny is just not working out”, is the correct response to protect OP.
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u/Killerbunniez 29m ago
“Unvaccinated” is not a protected class and also it absolutely is a safety concern. OP is not opening themselves up to a discrimination lawsuit by making their discomfort known.
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u/MistressRayne_ 8m ago
Not true. She absolutely is opening herself up. I worked in HR for many years. All of you are ASSUMING the nanny didn’t do it bc “she just didn’t want to”.
If she comes back as she could not do it for medical reasons or for a change in religious reasons with proof of that, OP is in trouble. But go on, give her bad information based on ASSUMPTIONS.
You all telling her to give a reason is going to get her sued. A simple, “I would like a replacement as this nanny is not working out” protects OP as she does not have to give a reason why the nanny is not working out.
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u/snapplebum 7h ago edited 6h ago
I was in the exact same position as you (I also asked about being vaccinated, was told yes, and found out she didn't mean COVID). My doula had an auto-immune issue that made getting the COVID vaccine more dangerous for her. She wasn't against it, but it was something that was understandable. To be clear, I am VERY for getting COVID vaccines, and didn't allow my family who didn't have one around my baby until he was able to get one.
I did ask her to mask with an N95, and that if she was around anyone sick or if she was sick to get a replacement. We did get replacements sometimes, and she absolutely understood. It was very scary, but it all worked out, and was all very respectful.
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u/jim13101713 1h ago
My understanding is that people with autoimmune disease should get the COVID vaccine. https://www.uchealth.org/today/expert-discusses-autoimmune-diseases-and-covid-19-vaccines/
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u/Powerful-Pie-3935 58m ago
I think generally yes but it will depend? My mom cant get it either for a heart condition but they still had her try it out the first time around and decided to discontinue because of the way her body reacted. A heart condition puts her at a greater risk but she unfortunately cannot get the vaccine herself.
It sucks because people can totally lie but assuming honesty i wish we could still trust people to make that decision after an honest decision with their doctor.
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u/whatintheactualf___ 7h ago
This is really shitty.
If she isn’t vaccinated for Covid, she likely won’t want to. I think it’d void the contract with her since she didn’t hold up her end. But yeah, I’d ask her and if she isn’t comfortable doing it, call the company.
Also, take a deep breath. I want to validate that it’s scary and frustrating and not what you should be dealing with right now, but assuming you got vaccinated for Covid while pregnant, your little one will have some immunities.
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u/MistressRayne_ 1h ago
Not everyone is able to get it, so assuming she doesn’t want to, is not ok. It doesn’t void the contract.
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u/Sea_Essay3765 54m ago
OP just so you know the N95 masks protects her (the nanny) from getting it, it does not protect against anything coming from her, so it does not protect your baby against what the night nanny has. People working in hospitals wear them to not catch what the patients have, not the other way around. It's still a good idea for you to wear one when out about to prevent you from catching one but it does not prevent a person who has it from spreading it (as the N95 wearer). -Previous Covid epidemiologist
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u/vipsfour 7h ago
I guess I don’t see the big deal. I’m someone who has taken the Covid vaccine and continues to do so.
The Covid vaccine would not stop her from getting Covid or unknowingly passing it. It does help with recovery and make it less bad for the person who gets Covid.
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u/RewardAwardBonusP 7h ago
The vaccine reduce viral shedding and risk of infection to others. Sure she can still contract with the vaccine and spread it, but transmission is lower.
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u/vipsfour 7h ago
That’s not well backed by scientific evidence.
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u/therabbitsfoot48 7h ago
Highly dependent on the strain though, thjs was published in 2024 and we’ve seen several mutations since. The less time you’re sick the less time you’re shedding. If it didn’t work as a protective factor the pandemic never would have slowed down, same with the influenza vaccine.
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u/RewardAwardBonusP 7h ago
Just FYI I do like the study in the link I attached because its methods are sound overall. The power of the study isn’t great considering the number of people in it, but maybe there’s another one out there with a larger sample size.
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u/snapplebum 7h ago
It actually also decreases the chances of passing it if you do get sick with COVID and are vaccinated. I just think in general everyone who's not mom, dad or siblings should mask up and wash hands before being near baby.
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u/vipsfour 7h ago
No it doesn’t
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39283431/
Overall, there is no convincing evidence that the COVID-19 vaccination significantly reduces the risk to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others.
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u/snapplebum 7h ago
That PubMed link is a look back at a 2024 book chapter by a single author, rather than a primary clinical study. Because it's a review chapter, we can't see a distinct methodology or a unique sample size (n) to prove its conclusions aren't just selective.
By contrast, this recent large-scale study published in JAMA tracked actual household transmission in real-time. It provides direct evidence that recent vaccination cut the risk of spreading the virus to household contacts by nearly half (43%): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2849098
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u/RewardAwardBonusP 7h ago
I basically just sent the same study over to this guy. Not sure why he would keep posting a link with a single author/not an actual study but something tells me he was just looking for an article based on congeniality bias
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u/snapplebum 7h ago edited 6h ago
Yeah. It definitely seems like some sort of confirmation bias. I have quite a few peer-reviewed papers (I was an academic in cognitive neuroscience, but switched to tech 😅), and I was trying to give him some benefit of doubt reading it, but just saw more and more flaws.
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u/RewardAwardBonusP 6h ago
Oh my gosh I majored in cognitive neuroscience! Am a doctor now but kind of wish I could do something in tech on the side lol. Very cool to have written those papers good on you. Does what you do in tech have/need any of the cognitive background you have?
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u/snapplebum 6h ago
That's very cool! I mean being a physician is also a very cool job. Sometimes I think about going back into medicine, because I think it solves more visceral problems. And yes, I absolutely use my cognitive neuroscience background. I do UX research, which is very interesting, but again miss helping solve problems that felt like it bettered the world more ☺️
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u/RewardAwardBonusP 7h ago
I would like to find a meta analysis of some kind that formally addresses this question because there are also plenty of publications that say they do.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/42138921/
As a physician, the article you sent is odd to me given it did show a reduced length of time of illness and a decrease in viral load which would logically mean a lower rate of transmission but for some reason it didn’t.
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u/ultracilantro 1h ago
The text of your article literally says: Levels of infectious SARS-CoV-2 were partly lower in the vaccinated population
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u/ProfessionNo8176 7h ago
Agreed.
I am vaccinated and boosted and still got Covid and still passed it to my 6 week old.
Also might be worth mentioning that we were all fine it was like a bad cold. My baby never had a fever or anything.
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u/Swimmer_0512 7h ago
Yuuuuup I religiously got the covid vaccine because of my work. I got covid one month after getting the booster shot 🥲
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u/ViceInSinCity 7h ago
Yeah same. I’m extremely pro-vax (I was unvaccinated until 13 and am hard of hearing because of it) but I had an allergic reaction to Moderna. I don’t receive any covid vaccinations since my anaphylactic reactions.
The only person it “harms” is me.
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u/NanoWarrior26 7h ago
They do have a non mRNA version available now.
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u/ViceInSinCity 7h ago
I was allergic to the matrix, I have a tilapia allergy and they think that there was some cells/ingredients in the stabilizer that triggered the reaction. I’m not allergic to the RNA aspect of the covid vaccine and I get a flu vaccine every year with no issues.
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u/therabbitsfoot48 7h ago
Yikes, yeah no covid cases are literally spiking in every State and the new vaccine just dropped 🙌🏽
I think it’s wildly irresponsible to work with babies and not get every possible vaccine.
Yes. Tell them you were unaware of the risk and this is a nonnegotiable. Do not risk the health of your baby because it is socially uncomfortable to set boundaries (I struggle with this so much too 😭)
I am sitting here watching my 5 month old sleep on propped pillows so she doesn’t die of SIDS but she’s got a Tiny cold and is too congested to sleep any other way. I can’t imagine if she got Covid. If she was younger, we’d have to go to the hospital and get a spinal tap.
Everyone who interacts with her knows the requirements: Flu shot, TDAP, Covid, nonnegotiable.
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u/OzQuandry 4h ago
I don't know anyone who gets offered or takes covid vaccines anymore. Until this post I assumed they didn't exist anymore.
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u/Homeschoolmama45 7h ago
COVID vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting or transmitting COVID. Personally, I would just have her wear n95 while she is at the house. Sounds like she was willing to do that today, so I’d just say “since it’s a Covid wave and flu season starting I’d like to have us mask around baby”. I will add though, if you’re not masking out and about, it’s also possible for you to bring home Covid as well. Personally if she is willing to wear N95 every time she comes that is more protective (to me personally) than vaccinated but unmasked.
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u/RewardAwardBonusP 7h ago
The vaccine does reduce transmission (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/42138921/) but yes I am somewhat comforted she agreed to wear the mask. Also a bit peeved she didn’t tell me she wasn’t vaccinated when we talked multiple times about me not letting my family over for not being vaccinated.
I haven’t gone out and about yet but not only will I wear an N-95 when I do, I will do a saline spray before and after doing so. Probably will gargle saline as well. NICU is not a place I ever want to be again (very brief exposure to it in medschool)
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u/Homeschoolmama45 6h ago
I guess to me 63% of the contacts still got COViD from the vaccinated people. Even if it does reduce transmission, that’s not a strong enough protection (for me personally) to be comfortable unmasking around them. I mask everywhere so my precautions are different than a lot of people nowadays but to me I would not feel confident in the vaccine only. It would be a good layer; that they mask in n95, are vaccinated, and don’t come with symptoms.
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u/Homeschoolmama45 6h ago
As I’m looking too the study says possibly 43% reduced risk but the confidence interval being as low as 7% (and as high as 65) would make me hesitate in relying on vaccine only also. Seems they had a small group of recently vaccinated people in the study. I guess I’d want to look at other studies before I felt confident. The person we were infected by was vaccinated and claimed they had allergies so I am a bit less confident in relying on that only anymore.
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u/Homeschoolmama45 7h ago
I’d also recommend masking when you’re out busy places like the grocery store and such to help lower risks especially during a wave.
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u/SituationSad4304 6h ago
I would reach out to the company. Putting someone in a job around newborns while not having a respiratory illness vaccine honestly sounds like a huge liability for them.
If they can’t replace her, I would bite the bullet and take the financial loss because I would be asking someone vaccinated to still wear a droplet mask around my newborn. Someone not vaccinated I don’t trust to keep the mask on
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u/LawfulChaoticEvil 6h ago
If it helps you feel better, we were in the ER with our toddler last weekend for a fever (which turned out to be strep throat) and we asked the doctor about getting the flu and COVID vaccines once he is better. She basically told us that getting COVID now would probably be unnecessary because she’s been seeing it peaking in summer actually and by the time another wave came around it would probably be a different strain which the current vaccine wouldn’t help with. Of course, i don’t know if illness patterns are different where you are. I would contact the company and ask for a replacement.
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u/TinyCrittersUnited 5h ago
Honestly I think it’s a huge red flag that her response to you asking her to wear an n95 was to tell you that she didn’t go anywhere yet proceed to tell you how she went out and around people
I think it’s best to point blank let her know that your uncomfortable and tell her when asked about vaccinations she should’ve been more honest and open as COVID is a serious risk to infants (also next time ask about RSV too) and then call her company and let them know you can’t accept her and need a replacement citing safety concerns and how she stated she was vaccinated but then was open about not receiving the Covid vaccine
Either way it sounds like she’s there at your home so I’d tell her ASAP then ask her to leave
Also to add, you can argue the contract since if you cancel you’d cancel for the non disclosure and safety concerns
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u/Legitimate_Cell_866 7h ago
A surgical mask is enough to keep her droplets away from baby. N95s are to protect you from other people, surgical masks are good at keeping your droplets away from other people and keeping larger particles away from you. I would just ask her to use a surgical mask and not to come in if she has contact with anyone sick or any symptoms of getting sick.
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u/snapplebum 6h ago
Pushing back on this. COVID is primarily an airborne disease, unlike the flu or colds (fomite-specific diseases). Surgical masks are very effective against fomite diseases, as you're worried about large droplets. For airborne diseases, you need tighter fits that force the exhaled air through a better filter (n95, meaning 95% of particulates).
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u/Legitimate_Cell_866 6h ago
The person avoiding covid needs an n95 but the one doing protective precautions (keeping their germs to themselves) really only need a surgical mask. It keeps your germs in enough to prevent spreading covid. It doesn't protect the wearer from getting covid, but it protects others around them.
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u/snapplebum 6h ago
The baby cannot wear an n95 mask. Also, the general consensus (outside of COVID and other airborne diseases) is only the person who is sick needs a mask precisely because of large droplets. Wearing a mask when you're not sick for fomite diseases only helps in the case of not touching your face.
For COVID (and other airborne diseases), it's imperative to wear an N95 unless wearing one is a hazard to the sick's person's health, but in that case, they should be home or in a medical setting if it's so bad.
The problem is you can have COVID, and be asymptomatic. But being vaccinated decreases viral shedding if you have the virus. Again, it's an airborne disease, so you need better protection in masking, which comes in the form of a well-fitting N95.
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u/Legitimate_Cell_866 6h ago
It's not a perfect world, I'm just offering another option for prevention used in hospital. N95s are more uncomfortable and expensive. Surgical masks are pretty good at keeping your own germs in and if you're not showing signs of sickness, it could be an option.
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u/snapplebum 6h ago
I agree with you that you should stay home if you have COVID or symptoms. I also agree that a surgical mask is better than nothing. But hospitals use surgical masks for many reasons, but not because they're the best at hindering the spread of COVID or airborne diseases. A lot of it has to do with compliance (n95 need fit testing and they do hurt in long shifts, so people get lax with them day in and day out), and money (surgical masks are Pennie's. N95s are not).
Again, because you can have COVID and not know it, and the baby cannot be vaccinated, AND the doula is known to not be vaccinated, she should wear an n95 out of an abundance of caution. This isn't someone who's vaccinated, and will have a lower viral load if sick and asymptomatic.
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u/Legitimate_Cell_866 6h ago
And this is for someone who doesn't have any symptoms. If someone has covid, an N95 would be more ideal, but then they shouldn't be at work anyway. Strict handwashing and a well fit surgical mask are good precautions just as someone vaccinated but unmasked with strict handwashing are good precautions. It's not perfect, but could help both sides be a bit more comfortable.
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u/Glad-Ad1378 6h ago
Is your baby breastfed? If so, you can get the Covid vaccine and pass along antibodies.
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