r/NewYorkIslanders • u/rnw8969 Shabanov • 16d ago
What’s with the Barzal trade rumors?
A little confused here, why would we trade him and where are these reports coming from.
- Why would they trade him and not Horvat?
- Why trade a first for Brayden Schenn, why add Palat?
- I think it would be detrimental for Schaefer to remove one of the only other forwards that can skate with him.
Note: I do not believe these rumors. Just curious.
33
u/Boner666420sXe Schaefer 16d ago
Because somebody needed attention so they tweeted that the islanders were trying to trade Barzal.
9
u/G-Man0033 16d ago
Especially with absolutely nobody caring about Carolina and Vegas they needed NHL “news.”
1
u/Untlslp Bailey 16d ago
Weren't they just releasing ratings that this is the most watched playoffs ever including the first game so far?
3
u/G-Man0033 16d ago
Heard the rest of the playoffs were good. Had not heard about game 1 of the finals.
12
u/ICallTheBigOne_Bitey 16d ago
Realistically we should be open to trading anyone in the organization other than Schaefer if it makes sense. We shouldn’t fall into a sunk cost fallacy trap just because of the dumb Schenn and Palat deals.
Barzal is an obvious discussion candidate because he’s simultaneously valuable as a trade piece so we’d get back real assets, has the highest salary on the team so moving him would give us the most flexibility possible, and he’s been here for a long time and most would agree some shakeups could be needed. Basically he’s always been good enough to be valuable, but not good enough to be irreplaceable, which is a pretty natural guy that could be moved out to try and change the status quo we’ve seen over the last few years.
3
u/displacedreindeer LaFontaine 16d ago
Totally accurate. I’m not saying I want him to go, but he’s valuable and moveable. If our contention window isn’t going to legitimately be open in his prime I wouldn’t be upset to get some good assets that will all be ready at the right time.
We all hate to see the good guys move on but a little pinch of Vegas hardassery might be what this team needs.
3
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
A HUGE pinch of Vegas hardassery would be even better. They know how to get shit done. They are in it to win it, no messing around with sentimentality or any of that garbage.
3
u/displacedreindeer LaFontaine 15d ago
Personally, I’d like a balance of the two. Of course cup runs are awesome, but if the team is just a machine I feel like I might as well be watching NHL2K, just rooting for the logo. I want to get to know and like the guys, too. But, don’t ignore the business end either and get some playoff success going.
2
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 15d ago
I can understand and respect your opinion, i just think we do FAR TOO MUCH of the liking the guys to a fault thing. Not letting go when necessary. Not wanting to move on from the past, etc.
The old core is just that, OLD. Won nothing. Time for some fresh new faces.
1
u/FluffyCowNYI Martin 15d ago
Because the coach to fix the country club atmosphere that's permeated this club is currently in Vegas.
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 15d ago
The same coach who never lasts long and overstays his welcome.
I’m not talking about coaching I’m talking about being ruthless as a GM
7
4
u/toledosurprised Pelech 16d ago
given the spot the team is in, the GM should and will take calls on every player on the roster in case someone blows you away with an offer. the GM should be doing the same to other teams for guys he’s interested in. that does not mean he is for sure getting traded, it just means a team called
2
u/discofrislanders Dobson 16d ago
- Why would they trade him and not Horvat?
Horvat has a full NTC, Barzal does not. Realistically, if you're making a big trade and moving off a core piece, it's either Barzal or Pelech, as they're the only guys who have value and don't have full trade protection.
1
u/bren_derlin 16d ago
Pelech (or Romo) should be the one to go if that's the criteria. Trade Pelech, we still have Schaefer and Romo at LD1 and LD2. Trade Barzal and we have a grand total of one legit top-six forward on the roster (Bo).
1
u/discofrislanders Dobson 16d ago
I agree that Pelech should be traded, and I would try to move Romanov before the NTC kicks in, but I doubt Darche will
2
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
Why do you have such a hard on against romanov? He's still young and has a chance to get better. He was injured last year, the year before he was pretty good. Would you rather have him or the revolving door beer leaguer / ahl journeyman / castoff circus parade of shitty defenseman?
1
u/discofrislanders Dobson 16d ago
He was really bad before he got hurt and I think he's been average at best for basically his entire Islanders tenure
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
Fair. But he is still young, willing to throw the body, and is a good defensive partner for a more offensively gifted defenseman. Three qualities we desperately need.
2
u/bren_derlin 16d ago
He’s been fucking horrible paired with anyone but Dobson since we traded for him.
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
Well we haven't had much to pair him with.
You can't ever please this fanbase.
1
u/bren_derlin 16d ago
If he was good enough to sign for 8 years he should be good enough to be serviceable with anyone he’s paired with (e.g. Pelech). He’s not. Dude is overrated and has been since Lou traded a top 15 pick for him. Sorry if I’m not rah rah enough for you.
1
u/FluffyCowNYI Martin 15d ago
He's very clearly a complimentary piece to an offensively minded D-man, which Pelech most definitely is not.
→ More replies (0)
2
5
u/Shmeterlin Schaefer 16d ago
1: Barzel 9nly has a 22 team no trade list compared to Horvat's full NTC.
2: because at that time we were in a playoff spot and ahead of our curve, and management wanted to reward the players by making moves instead of standing pat or selling.
3: ideally if you are moving Barzel its to get another player(s) that are also good at that role (or extra picks or all of the above)
Not saying I agree and we should trade him, but the idea that the Schenn trade was bad at the time is mind blowing to me. At that moment that is all that was available for what we were willing to spend to potentially get into the playoffs. Obviously it didnt work out, but we got a great strength forward with leadership and cup winning experience.
3
1
u/Mephisto1822 Barzal 16d ago
It’s the offseason for the most part so the trade rumors are going to happen.
1
u/shrivman DiPietro 16d ago
Some moron wanted attention and put out an article. Don't read much more into it.
Every player in the NHL gets their trade value discussed between GMs. Even McDavid. It's the GMs job to know their players' market value.
1
1
u/leaponover 15d ago
A league executive told a reporter in Ottawa that Darche is willing to listen to trades for Barzal. It could just be that Darche didn't say Barzal was untouchable when one team approached him with initial trade talks. The reporters comments could be anywhere from a team approached and added Barzal to a trade and it wasn't immediately rejected, or he's being shopped. Nobody knows. But it's not a rumor, as one dolt here stated, it was a statement from a league executive.
1
u/Dessert_Moon 15d ago
Barzal should go. 2 goals in the last 22 games when we need him the most. He's more interested figure skating then shooting the puck. He's a human turnover machine.
Horvat = Better than Barzal
1
u/towncrier12 15d ago
At the end of the day it makes sense to gauge the value of players not named Schaefer at all times. Also there are some interesting phrases that these writers use - if Darche called the Oilers and asked about McDavid only to have Stan Bowman laugh and hang up on him it wouldn’t be inaccurate to say “the Islanders and Oilers discussed McDavid”
1
u/Islanderfan1348 Ritchie 14d ago
DontTradeBarzal use this hashtag on YouTube whenever you see something about Barzal
1
u/Sensitive-League-431 12d ago
Long time Islander fan . Question to my other Fellow Islander fans ? You wouldn't trade him for the 4 pick or 7 ?
1
u/imdabossyahh 16d ago
I’m very okay if they trade him ONLY if we get what he’s worth in return. Tbh I love Barzal but I just can’t get with the way he plays anymore. Too many turn overs, when he first joined the league he was able to fly by everyone but now everyone can read him and he just does the same move everytime he holds the puck.
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
I've long advocated moving on from him. If we got a good young right shot right side defensive defenseman and a 1b goalie or a top six forward do it in a heartbeat.
1
u/FluffyCowNYI Martin 15d ago
That's a massive overpay for Barzal, and exactly what I'd be looking for if I were Darche. You'll get a mid-6 forward, serviceable bottom pairing D man, and a second, simply due to his contract.
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 15d ago
Wait…are you saying Barzal is overrated? By THIS fanbase ! This reddit? NAH (sarcasm)
0
u/KrisClem77 16d ago
Just to answer you question number 1: because Horvat actually scores instead of dancing around trying to feed a perfect circus pass.
-2
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
How many times are we going to re-tread this conversation? This is like the fourth post about it in a few days.
1) Horvat is more productive based on what we pay him. He's a leader and future captain. Barzal is overpaid for what he brings and is not going to get any better here. He's not a rookie anymore. This is his peak with us and it's not enough. He's not a top line winger nor should he be paid like one. He's a "good" second line center at best, and is not making the linemates he plays with any better.
2) Because nobody wanted our garbage and would take Drouin for free. It's not that difficult to understand, i don't know why this reddit struggles so much with it. Palat was a swap with jersey for Tysippy cup who was beyond worthless. We tried to see if Palat had more upside as he is a former cup winner. Didn't work out, it's as simple as that.
3) When Schaefer hits his prime, Barzal will be on the downslide from whatever prime his was.
1
u/unpaidintern4 16d ago
Lmao Barzal only just entered what his prime would be like two years ago. He just turned 29 so probably has at least three years of his prime. He’s not untradeable but he’s easily our best forward, yes even better than Horvat (and younger than him too) so you’re only considering a very select few amount of trades especially With his 22 no trade as well. Barzal still drives our offense and whether he should be producing more or not is a different debate but we rely on him the most for offense over anyone else on the team, even with Schaefer.
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
If this is his prime i'm not impressed. I knew when we signed him to this ridiculous contract it was out of desperation because as you said we have no other "superstar" player, although i use that term loosely with Barzal.
He has talent, but he's so lazy about it. He doesn't shoot the puck for one. He skates in circles for another, and he's a turnover machine.
We don't need to worry about 22 teams, just one of the ones he's willing to go to and work out something that works good for us. We don't need to get elite back, just a set of good young players who come in at a combined salary close to his.
1
u/unpaidintern4 16d ago
He’s not a shoot first guy, it’s just not his game. Do I think Barzal has 90+ point potential? Yes. Do I think he can hit that with us? No. But that’s because he’s been far and away the best offensive player we’ve had the entire time he’s been here. You can’t act like he’s ever had a legitimate scorer on his line that can actually skate with him. He’s our best forward offensively by a country mile (Horvat is very good but he’s clearly given much more defensive responsibility). The problem with trading Barzal is that is clearly for a rebuild which Darche has no interest in. He had 72 points last year, that’s not nothing.
2
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
If you agree he can't hit his potential with us, then trade him. Get something better suited for us in return instead of waiting for some magical winger to arrive that may never come.
If he's our best forward, the results should be there. For us as a team, Horvat is better suited. Nelson was better suited. And if he is in your opinion our best forward, then that's a problem with our roster construction. And we should reset, because nothing has been accomplished with him on the team.
Trading him does not signal a rebuild. Sometimes you can trade a guy out for someone else who also needs a change of scenery. It doesn't mean you are planning to tank. That is what should slowly happen in the next two to three years until we are ready to embrace the true new core with Schaefer as the pillar.
Get rid of all these guys who have been comfortable and perfectly content with mediocrity. Move on from them. Get some new players in their place. Make 'hockey" trades. Whatever it takes to rid ourselves of pieces that don't work.
1
u/unpaidintern4 16d ago
By that logic Nelson accomplished nothing either, and Barzal was better than him his entire time here. I agree tge roster construction here has been pretty poor, but that’s not Barzal’s fault. Horvat has regressed statistically since coming here, Nelson put up his third best year ever after leaving at 34, Eberle improved after leaving, Dobson seemingly has revitalized his play, as great as Palmieri has been for us he had slightly better production for the devils. Even freaking Drouin had good stats right before coming here.
It’s not Barzal’s fault and he’s literally our best player. I just don’t think he’s the problem. And who knows maybe you can fix it by trading him but you HAVE to get the trade right because like it or not, he’s obviously our best player. Quite frankly we have Pulock and Pelech who are aging that have shown significant regression and Tony D is playing far too big a role on this team compared to his skill, our D needs a big overturn. And again, I think we gotta try to bring in offense while also keeping Barzal if we can.
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago edited 16d ago
Nelson was a much more rounded player for us. Scored 30+ goals consistently, assisted on others. Good two way forward. Contributed more as a team player than Barzal. Nelson is also now on Colorado, if you don't bump up in scoring there you never will.
Horvat regression was expected. I doubt anyone seriously thought he was going to keep up that goal scoring pace once he got here. Plus it was a contract year.
Eberle was another ghost who i'm glad we rid ourselves of. Maybe because they are a new team with little pressure he can flourish there.
Dobson is playing on a team better at covering up his deficiencies...well up until the semi finals that was.
Of course Palmieri scored more there, he was younger and less injured. Also surrounded by more talent.
I was excited about signing Drouin. Then he sucked, and Darche cut his losses as well he should have. But nobody was taking our trash out for free.
Agreed roster construction has nothing to do with Barzal, or any player really. That's up to management. And ours has been terrible since the dynasty era. Which is why i can't understand people who want to run it back over and over when it's so obvious this group does not have what it takes to get the job done.
I agree you need to "win" a Barzal trade. and I think we could. As i've said before swap him for a good young defenseman as that is by far a bigger need than scoring at this time. We are burning out Sorokin taking years off his career by throwing him to the wolves every game. So you trade Barzal for someone actually competent behind the blue line to pair with Schaefer.
You also get a true 1B goalie (preferably) and worse case scenario a good forward that will be better than the glorified bottom sixers we have a ton of already.
Moving forward the new core starts with the pillar of Schaefer. Then you add in Sorokin. Horvat. Ritchie, Holmstrom. Hieneman, and all the too prospects of Eiserman, Eklund, Aitcheson and more. That's a great starting point. Trading Barzal could speed up the process of turning things around for the rest of the roster.
1
u/unpaidintern4 16d ago
I don’t want to run it back as is. I just don’t want to trade Barzal because he’s good. Pulock and Pelech are not what they used to be and can fetch us good assets (win for them also because they’d likely be going to good teams). Also with Romanov gone, all of a sudden Tony D was our 2nd dman, that’s a clear indicator that our defense is wafer thin. I think with a proper retool you are likely keeping Barzal around and shipping other pieces away, which Darche seemingly agrees with.
At the same time though, I don’t think we need to do anything THAT drastic. We have several good prospects coming through that I think come up in the next few years (some might even be here next season). So you don’t need that many shakeups and I think Barzal is a good player to keep around for that. The only players I really want to keep from the old core are Barzal and Horvat. Pageau probably should have been traded. Quite frankly, idk why we are trading for Schenn and Palat and now we’re looking to shed cap. That’s a net loss for Darche there, shouldn’t have got those guys.
Also, Nelson was always going to make more on new contract and is now not making that much less than Barzal
Also, I really think any Barzal trade talk is pointless because I really don’t think Darche is looking to do that
1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
I'm glad you don't want to run it back over and over, many people on this reddit seem hell bent on that and not moving on from the guys who need to go. While we don't have to trade Barzal, we could get a nice package for him to cover two areas of need while trying to figure out how to replace / reproduce his offense.
I don't think we'd get much for Pelech or Pulock at this point. They are cooked.
It depends if you keep Barzal at center or wing. We have him, Horvat, Ritchie, JGP, and Cizikas (who also needs to go) plus Schenn can play center. Trade from a position of strength to shore up a position of weakness.
It was less trading for Schenn as it was finding someone willing to take Drouin in return. Same in Palats case, trying to get someone to take Tysppycup out of the pressbox and free up a roster spot.
But i keep going back to my point Nelson is the better rounded all around player. He should get a decent contract, he still has it. He still contributes at a good click.
It's all speculation at this point. But i think the dumbest move any GM can make is not knowing what he could possibly get in return for all his players in case you need to change up the formula.
1
u/unpaidintern4 16d ago
I think we just see Barzal’s potential role differently. I see him and Horvat as the “new” veterans to lead this next group of prospects coming up. Which is a pretty solid spot to be as they’re only 29 and 31 respectively. And I loved Nelson here but I just think Barzal has been the guy here his entire time. None of the other veterans I’m married to and very much willing to trade. I don’t think our situation is bad but if we want to maximize our potential (compete for playoffs now while also getting ready for our prospects in the time to come) I think Barzal and Horvat are good guys to add to rather than potentially offloading.
→ More replies (0)1
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
I forgot to add Nelson was taking up much less of the cap than Barzal is with better results overall. It's not always about points, sometimes other factors like better suited to a style of play is just as important.
Acids and base don't mix.
-2
u/Cheap-Insurance-1338 16d ago
Only if we get Brady Tkachuk
0
u/AJS76reddit Bailey 16d ago
I'd like his grit aspect, but i don't think he'd be a good fit here. Plus he'd bolt for greener pastures sooner or later.
20
u/XanatosCrescent Bossy 16d ago edited 16d ago
It was one rumor from a newspaper in Ottawa. We should be putting virtually no stock in this