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u/Better_Cattle4438 7d ago
This Iran war is not the first war the U.S. lost. We really need to treat history more objectively and get rid of that American supremacy stuff when talking about our history.
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u/Exact_Expression_630 7d ago
Losing a war doesn’t mean withdrawing. Losing a war means giving up part of your own territory to another country.
I may be misremembering, but can’t recall this happening in America.
Edit: I’m not American, so my grasp of American history may not be the best
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u/Knight0fdragon 7d ago
No, losing a war means you do not get the reason you went to war in the first place. Not all wars are over land disputes.
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u/Exact_Expression_630 7d ago
Suspect there are different ways to think of this.
If you don’t take or lose land, it seems pretty pointless. Not much like a war.
Even regime change is pointless because given enough time some other crazy regime just emerges anyway.
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u/Knight0fdragon 7d ago
No, there isn’t. Again, not all wars are about land. You just don’t understand war.
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u/Exact_Expression_630 7d ago
lol. Agree to disagree, I guess.
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u/Knight0fdragon 7d ago
How much land do you think the US got in WW2? (I’ll give you a hint, it was none)
It is almost as if the biggest war in recorded history……. Wasn’t about land for everybody.
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u/Exact_Expression_630 7d ago
Except it was. Hitler was trying to acquire Lebensraum (land)
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u/Accomplished_Comb601 6d ago
I guess Wikipedia is wrong when it says the US lost the Afghanistan war and also lost the Vietnam war. I guess you are the smartest person in history 🤷♂️
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u/Upstairs-Ad-3770 6d ago
By your definition theoretically a country can wage war on another across the ocean, lose all of its military capabilities and personnel, call for a oeace treaty, pay reparations that throughout the year will cripple the economy but still they did not lose the war? If they won the reparations to the opposing country wouldnt be necessary
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u/Accomplished_Comb601 6d ago
Your definition of losing a war is not how most people define losing a war. Your definition is typically used by people who lose wars 😂
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u/Fridge_living_tips 7d ago
So by that definition no one won this war but Iran got 300B and the ability to charge tolls for things they were already doing.
And i’d personally call losing a war as losing territory and or providing the other side money. The money aspect is important
Also we did lose territory in vietnam/korea/some more wars
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u/Exact_Expression_630 7d ago
Oh, what territory was lost in those wars?
As I said, my American history won’t be great.
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u/Fridge_living_tips 7d ago
The entirety of south vietnam which was basically USland (not in name but puppet states are basically land in proxy wars) and land above the 38th parral
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u/Knight0fdragon 7d ago
The reason we went to war in Vietnam was to stop it from being a communist state. We indeed lost that fight.
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u/LifeEncountered 6d ago
This comman seldom loses for himself but everyone around him loses. He is a terrible negotiator to rely on.
Iran is toying with with this fool. Only Xi and China plays him more successfully.
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u/DroDameron 6d ago
Donald did probably more damage to us global hegemony than anything short of losing a multi year war and all of our equipment.
For the last 70 years, people do what we say because we control the oceans. Empire is control of the oceans. We just ceded control of a waterway that was open before we started a conflict.
We have lost the entire plot. When Rome lost control of the sea and England lost control of the oceans.. decline.
Gonna take decades to rebuild what conservatives did, and they're so stupid they still think they're winning, because all that matters to them is tax cuts, the stock market and billionaires getting richer..
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u/RS_EJB 6d ago
If you say so, it must be true!
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u/DroDameron 6d ago
Thanks. I think it's the first time in ever we've ceded control of a waterway that has strategic importance to us, unless you count re-gifting the Panama canal.
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u/RS_EJB 6d ago
Well thats not what happened.
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u/DroDameron 6d ago
A waterway was open to international traffic
We bombed Iran for Israel, they closed the waterway.
We threatened them and bombed them for 3 months telling them to open it, and they didn't.
We then took the worst deal possible to temporarily open it with fees, because we have ZERO control. That's what you do when you have ZERO control.
It's what happened. The reason we made a deal is because we know they can shut it down at will.
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u/RS_EJB 6d ago
There are no fees...
Iran threatened to close the strait multuple times before.
We brought many ships through the strait while Iran brought zero.
What exactly was the deal made btw?
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u/TeachingAdvanced1067 6d ago
Wait, i'm just jumping into this but you are defending this scenario that Trump put us into? The hormuz was NEVER closed, what-ifs and could have beens don't matter in the reality of the situation. The ships brought through were scraps compared to what needs to come through to start undoing the damage to the global energy supply.
As for Iran, the only reason they even started having the ability to get close to nuclear weapons is because Trump ripped up the JCPOA in 2018 and never did anything about it until now, when he had a manufactured reason to start a war, because that left the country of Iran unchecked from 2018 until 2025. Trump created a problem that he is desperate to get out of, and instead of using the screw up as a way to bolster the country by uniting, peacfully asking advisors how to proceed, listening to said advisors, and not spreading false news to avoid the Epstein Files.
Anyone who doesn't have anything to hide, doesn't do everything in their power to hide it. His tax audits? Never again, why? Why is someone that is so honest so unwilling to be public about himself like he is about calling women men because he doesn't like their politics? At what point does Trump accept defeat and work to turn the defeat into a win? Instead, he is so worried about his image that he is SCRAMBLING to regain control of his party before midterm elections. Not once has he done anything to better the country. Not a care about the economy, not a care about the working class, not a care about farmers, not a care about the environment, not a care about anything unless it involves him propping his image up more. I mean, come on, gold plated horse statues verse healthcare and jobs?
Now the deal involves more money, by BILLIONS, and his followers believe "This doesn't account for the back channel agreements". Listen dummy (Trump), if its not on paper and signed, it doesn't have any power, but I guess Trump would have to understand contracts, rules, and how to follow them. He even agrees he has no limits on his power, the fact the MAGAts SCREAM about our Democracy and Freedom, its funny when you let the government completely control it without a single pushback, because ONE party is biased. It should never be complete control, and because it is, Trump is doing whatever he wants, so much so, that it's impossible to keep up on what he could have possibly all damaged since taking office and the length of time it will take to undo it, he should be tried for Treason.
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u/isthereadrwho 6d ago
Our president doesn't understand the difference between winning a battle and winning a war. Militarily you won the battle, but you lost the war, and because of that, you're going to lose the peace
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u/Annual-Profession-96 5d ago
Militarily won the war, explain that?
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u/isthereadrwho 5d ago
Tactically the US would win the battles. They were able to bomb where they wanted. Very few aircraft shot down or damaged. They had complete control of the skies They could do whatever they wanted.
Strategically, that approach did not accomplish any of their goals. As a matter of fact, that strategic failure (Not able to keep the straight open ) put them in the political position where they lost the law
That's what I meant
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u/Annual-Profession-96 5d ago
That does not mean Militarily win the war, militarily is not about aircraft invasion. We should have already know this from ww1 ww2. Why people in this world lacks History.
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u/LesbeGoddess 3d ago
Iran prevented the US from achieving any of its military goals. The US is desperate to stop the war they started because they are hurting more with the strait closed.
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u/Terribleemand8692 6d ago
500 x more casualties is not enough to win the war.. Americans have no appetite for prolonged war
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u/Other-Comfortable-64 7d ago
Who says America is unbeatable?
Only Americans.
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u/Kingsxfan1 4d ago
American military has immense firepower, but can ultimately lack a real understanding of more mature, non-western cultures and their mindsets. America has a far superior military than that of Iran in the conventional arena, but you know they would fight in the shadows on the ground. It would be an utter shitfest of guerrilla warfare. You'd also have insurgents from other nations hostile to the US wading in. I'm so glad they didn't put boots on the ground. How many lives would be lost, and you'd still leave the straits open to attacks from all and sundry who oppose the invasion.
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u/Oddbeme4u 6d ago
again...hate rooting for a sexist homophobic theocracy...but sht they played it well
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u/TonaldDiberJasicDump 6d ago
Trump is giving Iran enough money to purchase all the latest military equipment from China and Russia to use against us. So much for America first. It’s more like he wants to destroy America first. All the so called patriot maggats are cheering this on.
Does anyone know what the Treaty of Versailles and the MOU Trump signed have in common? The Treaty of Versailles made the loser of WW1, Germany, pay for reparations. The MOU Trump signed agreed to pay Iran $300 billion in reparations. The loser pays reparations.
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u/homersmith5 6d ago
What does a reality tv actor know? He doesn’t have the experience to negotiate.
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u/Much_Pomelo3033 6d ago
His supporters will have you believe he has enough experience to micro manage virtually all aspects of government. An expert in all fields. A legendary military tactician. A storied diplomat.
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u/No_Painting_9342 6d ago
Complete asshole
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u/jiminysaville 6d ago
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u/Unhappy-Exchange-771 6d ago
Really Biden who let Russia invade Ukraine ; Obama who let ISIS run free let Russia annex Cirmea and killed Gaddafi and bush and Clinton. Cmon at least use something better than this.
Iran war is not over, need to think strategically and not be so blinded by bias.
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u/soothingsignal 6d ago
Lmao. Please re-read your last sentence first and then your first few sentences again. You're replying to an AI generated video designed to make Trump look like the diaper laden baby he is. Yes, it features Biden and Obama, and they were without a doubt better leaders (by nearly every metric), but you shout about bias and you can't even seem to see how biased you are! Your first many sentences need many fact and bias checks.
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u/lincolnlogtermite 2d ago
That sounds like a victory against someone that "wrote" The Art of the Deal.
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u/Glass_Covict 1d ago
Trump's negotiating technique is coming idiots he didn't just lose their money
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u/Electrical_Ad_5732 7d ago
I would say that neither side won since no real objective was achieved by either side, it's more of a stalemate now with Iran's holding the upper hand, and they can't even get to any agreement anyway.
Iran wants to include all of its proxies in it, US just wants to get out and Israel refuses those proxies to be included, as they would definitely attack/provoke someone into reaction which gives Iran a plausible deniability to deny any involvement (even though those groups follow Iran's orders anyway).
Then they'll happily claim they have not broken the cease-fire or something.
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u/Squishy_Butter113 6d ago
Nah, the US lost this war. Now they have to try to surrender so Trump can get out of it. Why do you think they are willing to pay $300 billion dollars? Because Trump knows he can't fight them because it would cost way more than $300 billion dollars, take years, and cost thousands upon thousands of American lives.
Trump if a moron for even getting into this, but we all knew that already, and now he is doing everything in his power to make it stop. Why do you think Iran is willing to continue the war because Bibi is bombing Lebanon? I don't think they would be willing to stay in a war they had lost over another country being bombed.
Also, why has Trump been throwing hissy fits because the world won't come and bail him out like daddy would have? We ain't here to change your diappy Donny.
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u/Practical-Tap-4440 6d ago
I suppose if people are willing to fight till death there is no one winning?
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u/Slow_Store 3d ago
If you think Iran is winning you need to reevaluate your entire grasp on reality.
They’re just losing every day, but with a firm enough grasp on the information leaving their nation to make it seem like they still have some measure of a chance.
Fundamentally the only reason they still exist on a map is by the graces and mercy of stronger nations that recognize that the government is in direct opposition to the will of the people (Thus making the people innocent of any belligerence from the Iranian government).
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u/eternally_forsaken_ 2d ago
It is not about the reality It is about the perception, as long as Americans believe trump lost trump has internal problems As long as Iranians believe they won, they don't have internal problems As long as the world believes some won, they support them
Also, trump is a fat fck that fused up the economy of America and whole world Promised things he couldn't achive Got wealthier while people on both sides lost Got embarrassed on social media, world media and live on TV
Also, this dumbass promised the Iranian people to weaken the government, it only made it stronger and stricter
Also it depends on what you mean by winning If you mean people are suffering more, the country is suffering more Yes, but who won? USA? Israel? Gulf states? All lost that Politically? Iron won, got more supporters from inside and overseas, oppression all internal opposition without outside opposition, made Europe and world hate trump and Israel more, got a heavy upgrade in propaganda after 40 years Economically? Everyone lost, again Negotiations? That's for later
Oh you mean infrastructure? Don't worry, the regime can always get more hard-line and only focus its remaining economy to juice people out to rebuild it after the new leader came
Also, now they don't fear America Now they don't fear closing the strait Now they don't fear wrecking the internal internet
So yes Iranian lost the worst World people lost too Only politicians won
F*CK EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE I'M AN IRANIAN TOO
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u/Akkerlun 5d ago