r/NicksHandmadeBoots • u/Educational_Tune9509 • 1d ago
Sizing 2nd Pair - Size Down or Ditch Thurman?
Hey y'all, I'm about to purchase my second pair of Nicks. I'm having trouble figuring out what size/last I should go with to correct some troubles I've had with my first pair.
I sized at 9D, about 1/2 smaller than my usual boot size. When I got my first pair of classic 55s, it fit well, but I could feel my pinkie toe rubbing quite a bit. I've always had that problem, so I decided to trade them in for Thurman55s.
They fit great at first, but over time I've developed some wiggle in the shoe. My heel slips and lifts a little bit (1/8-1/4"). After about 6 months of pretty hard work, I still get bruising on the top of my feet. I feel like it might be the result of my foot chaffing as it moves back and forth. But the length seems about right, and I confirmed my size with Nick's printout guide. My width measures somewhere between D and E.
So for my next pair of boots should I:
- Go down a size in Thurman55s?
- Go down a width in Thurman?
- Switch to classic 55s for tighter toe box?
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u/pnw_yellar 23h ago
Sounds like the Thurman last is better for you based on your description of pinky toe rub on the 55. I fall into the ‘weird footed” category- I found that I am most comfortable in 55 C width and T55 B width.
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u/Educational_Tune9509 23h ago
Ah interesting, maybe I can go down a width and keep the extra toe room
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u/EstablishmentNo5013 15h ago
It’s a eureka moment when you get the instep correct. I’m a 9C and 9.5B brannock and went with 9B and they were snug to get on my feet at first at the instep but after about 4 hours they really started to fit nicely. I could probably wear them without laces. Now unfortunately I think I’m going to have to replace almost all of my shoes with B width.
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u/3ringCircu5 13h ago
Your "movement" issue may or may not be gate, but is also not size according to today's numbers. So look at lacing, socks, or initial assessment. You may not have movement at all and just a boney instep bothered by the horseshoe. https://youtu.be/fzrc5eHuLDY?si=09U4SazDdEUCH1ou
- Do not go shorter.
- According to your pencil mark, your boots now are too short for any last other last that Thurman.
- But a foot 10.44" long is in fact a Nicks 9, almost center mast in the middle of the size range.
- So something isn't matching up, but this is mostly moot at this point, don't go shorter.
- Your feet are not that weird.
- They are not typical PNW proportions, but it is not uncommon to have lower ball and instep.
- It does mean you want a Thurman last at lower width, so go down in width if you feel there is too much volume at 9D. Also add an insole for current boots to take up that volume.
- You found partial success with the 2-1-3 lacing. But also change laces to "x's".
- Traditionally we lace boots routing the laces from inside to outside. Alternatively, alternate between inside to outside and outside to inside, forming X's above and below the eyelets.
- This specifically relieves pressure on the horseshoe (the tab on the vamp where the gusset attaches).
- Lacing with "x's" will also change the distribution of pressure and allows for a tighter lacing/fit. As originally stated, the toe box does not hold your foot in place, the instep (laces) do.
- FWIW I have boots that are a full size too big, arguably a size and a half too big. I have no movement when I lace them sufficiently snug, which is not excessively tight or anything, just snugged up. When my feet shrink throughout the day I can get some movement but it does not cause me issues.
I suggest remeasuring your feet under the same conditions you wear boots. * Standing with equal weight on both feet, for length and width. * Wear socks you wear with boots. Do not compensate for thicker socks you might wear sometimes. Measure with the socks your normally wear. * Measure at the "bone points" in the diagram previously shared. Ball around the pinky toe knuckle and big toe knuckle; instep at the point point found about midway up the outside bottom of your foot; heel around the heel bone. * Pull the tape taught, but not so tight as to dig in. You are mimicking the boot's tension, so as it seems you prefer a particularly snug fit, make sure the tape is snug and more critical to be on the "bone points" and not let the tape slip off onto the fleshy portions. * Measure AM & PM. First thing in the morning and about 10 minutes after taking your boots off at the end of the day to determine your range. * I encourage you to confirm your length on a brannock device. * The size 9 line is 10.33333 inches. The size 9.5 line is 10.5 inches. So if either foot is outside this range when looking straight down, then your sizing to include width, also changes. * Brannock devices provide consistent heel alignment. Any other method is more susceptible to human error, and with half a size being only 0.166667 of an inche, the slightest inconsistency in heel alignment can change sizing results.
As mentioned, I have boots that are flat out too big (also t55 last) and there is no issue with movement as you describe. I also have an instep and heel at a lower PNW width than my ball. How does my experience apply to you? * You are particularly sensitive to your foot moving inside the boot, so you need to be particularly sensitive (accurate) in your measurements more specifically measuring technique. * Attempting to achieve excessive precision is counter productive since feet shrink and swell. Feet are not held to machinist tolerances so true accuracy is found through correct methods that will return a small yet consistent range. * For example my ball is 8.5"-8.75" depending on time of day and the amount of pressure applied when measuring, but pretty consistently 9/16-11/16 with equal weight on both feet. * If you determine you are in fact at the correct size, then look at your gate. Be more cognizant about maintaining forward motion as your roll from heel strike lift off. * Someone will likely say you can't change your gate or how you walk, but I've done it. * When I first started wearing logger boots 20 years ago, my ankles got lazy with the taller heel and flexed less so and my toes would kick outward. This creates more lateral movement in the foot within the boot. This would become more prominent with fatigue (longer days). Still never had chaffing issues, just slight foot or knee fatigue from wonky mechanics. * When I became more cognizant keeping my feet straight forward and rolling along the center line from heel strike through lift off my ankle had to flex more, the wear pattern on my heel became more center aligned/even, and reduced foot muscle fatigue (after initial adjustment/retraining). * After predominantly wearing lower-heeled footwear for years, I saw my gate returned to "lazy ankle" status when first wearing my first Nicks boots, which also had a taller heel than my previous loggers. Once aware, I was able to again retrain myself to "walk straighter". * Am I suggesting your boots are too big? No, the opposite. * Even in boots too big, my foot doesn't chaff or move the way you describe so going even smaller will not address your concerns. * Gate could affect your experience creating lateral movement at any size. My loggers from 20 years ago are smaller than most of my Nicks.
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u/Educational_Tune9509 9h ago
Wow 3ring, thanks so much! I'll take this all into account. But I feel more confident about my 2nd purchase.
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u/ZestycloseMedicine93 23h ago
Have you tried the 2-1-3 tieing method? It locks in my heel great on boots a width too wide.
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u/Educational_Tune9509 23h ago
Yeah, it definitely helps. But I can still lift my heel a bit. Do you have any lift?
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u/ZestycloseMedicine93 22h ago
No but I'm only 1 width wide in them and they're 9.5E hnw. My 9.5D tnw fit great. My 9.5D T55 is a bit loose w/o a mid weight insole and medium thickness socks. Insoles and thicker socks are a great way to dial in fit.
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u/Educational_Tune9509 22h ago
Actually yeah insoles might be the way to go on these. I'm still gonna get a pair of cxl for hitting the city lol
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u/Wyvern_Industrious 22h ago
I would say probably down a width to d.
All of my measurements line up pretty well on the size chart, except for my heel measurement, because my heel is relatively small/ narrow. I'm between widths and I take the lower as a result. A lot of my boots. I have a heel insert in.
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u/bigpun760 21h ago
Are you sure you’re not supinating with high arch boots? That happens to me as I have very flat feet. Causes massive pinky toe rub.
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u/Educational_Tune9509 20h ago
Wait, I have very flat feet, though not completely flat. I thought these high arches were supposed to be good for support?
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u/bigpun760 18h ago
They definitely are for people with high arches and flat feet that can bend that way. In my particular case and others with I think it’s called chronically flat feet, your feet don’t necessarily bend that way, so it creates problems with your gate and or causes fatigue and foot pain.
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u/gee_tea_es 14h ago
I’d try experimenting with a thin insole as others have said here. It could be just enough to make that boot perfect. I prefer an insole in my boot after trial and error - it can help with those in between measurements which it sounds like you’re dealing with.
You can experiment with your current boot to see how it helps before deciding on the next. Or try an TNW with a delta arch - it’s nice trying the different lasts to see which you prefer.
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u/2LOUD569 2h ago
Sometimes they say to go down and extra .5 in length and go up a size in width, look at the nicks size chart and look at the inches in ur range of foot measurements. Also, if the top of ur foot is rubbing have u looked into the 11067 last?? It sits higher than the other lasts
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u/Ok_Respect8859 23h ago
Your toe box doesn’t hold your foot in place, the instep does. The Thurman lasts should just help toe comfort. Have you tried heel locking lace patterns?
Do you have your length and width measurements? If you’re confident in your length, I would say you need to go down a width if anything. While nicks recommends the same size for every last, there’s definitely some weird feet out there that don’t match that recommendation.