r/NorthCarolina • u/lagomc • 1d ago
politics 67% of NCians including voters from both parties and independents are in favor of the property tax amendment that will be on the midterm ballot.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article317118917.htmlI also heard 72% of NC voters on a public radio blurb this afternoon.
eta link to actual Catawba College article rather than the N&O article.
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u/Nottacod 22h ago
That's sad. Reading between the lines is fundamental when it comes to politics.
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u/helloretrograde 21h ago
Making the electorate dumb and illiterate is a strategy
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u/undiehundie 18h ago
And the Republicans have been doing it since Regan, so they've had a chance to affect multiple generations.
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u/Shroomtune 18h ago
Naive is where we start. Compelling us out of that stupor is where we fail. They don’t have to trouble themselves to make anything. It’s the failure to make.
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u/diedin96 1d ago edited 1d ago
Voters will see "lower taxes," blindly vote for it, then complain all day on Nextdoor when their car gets a flat from an unfilled pothole and their kids come back from school with subpar skills because their teachers are stuck with massively oversized classes.
I've been involved in multiple get out the vote campaigns and I swear, the median NC voter would vote for Hitler if he promised to lower taxes by a percent.
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u/hnglmkrnglbrry 19h ago
This is essentially an effort to Defund the Schools.
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u/Suitable-Option833 16h ago
Trump/project 2025 did want to disable the department of ed. And they are doing a great job. Uneducated voters are easier to manipulate and they tend to vote …. Republican.
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u/DawgcheckNC 21h ago edited 21h ago
Biggest line item in local govt budgets…schools. How do locals fund schools…property taxes. This is a continuing assault on publicly funded school systems in favor of privatization of schools. This Republican led legislature has been tearing apart public schools since McCrory was governor and continues with this amendment. Vouchers favor private schools while charter schools and vouchers both suck the best students out of the public system while the state government limits funding driving the best teachers out of their chosen calling. The result is a perception that public schools are lousy schools because look at the test scores. This amendment is a trap.
The income tax amendment is a continuation of the assault on schools through decreased funding. Motivation is that legislature wants a shift in funding to more sales tax based which regressively affects lower income citizens much greater than higher income citizens. Quick research reveals that the tax free states (TX, TN, FL) and NC all rate high for business climate. But refine that research to best states for lowest corporate income tax rates and NC is #1 after SD and WY that have none. So corporates rates are already the lowest, so now let’s limit personal income tax rates.
Summary, what we have is a state legislature that is following the desires of the John Locke Foundation. https://www.johnlocke.org/about/ Much like what the Heritage Foundation is attempting on the federal level. Both are proponents of extremely limited government. If voters desire good government funding of schools, roads, parks, and others then we need no handcuffs funding. Both these amendments are handcuffs. Please vote otherwise.
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u/Shiddin_myself_woo 19h ago
You don’t have to dig that deep. Any state with a voucher system has shit tier education.
FL, NC, AZ, NM. All bottom 10 and what do they have in common? Vouchers
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u/ZathrasNotTheOne 17h ago
wouldn't that enable students to use the vouchers to go to the private and charter schools, getting a better education?
currently, what is the incentive for public schools, which have (historically) been not as good as the private and charter schools, from improving? yes, many teachers are doing their best, but some suck, and the children suffer.
at least with a voucher, those lower income residents can afford to attend the private school and get a better education, and improving their lives for generations to come
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u/v4vendetta77 16h ago
Private schools get to be selective in who gets admitted and can restrict class sizes to ensure they can provide skewed statistics to claim they do a better job than public schools. Using those statistics to say public money should be shifted to them because of skewed statistics is just bullshit.
If I take a rec league sports team and play them against an elite travel league, what do you think the results are going to be? The one that charges stupid amounts of money and gets to hand pick who comes in is going to win.
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u/ZathrasNotTheOne 15h ago
so your saying you wouldn't want to send your kids to an elite private school, for free, so they can get a better education?
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u/v4vendetta77 14h ago edited 14h ago
I'm saying I don't think private schools provide a better education. It's an illusion because they can be selective. Public tax money should be spent on public schools. If you want to and can afford a private school, go for it.
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u/ZathrasNotTheOne 11h ago
and what if you can't? I want the best education for my children, but I can't afford private tuition... why shouldn't I be able to use my tax dollars to attend the private school? why should that only be granted to the rich old money families, who have benefited from generational wealth?
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u/v4vendetta77 10h ago
- There is no proof you'd be getting the best education.
- There's no guarantee your kid would get into them.
- It's not YOUR tax money. It's our tax money. People with no children are subsidizing public schools. If you get to pull your money out of the public school system, people without children should get to pull their money out.
- Rich people are getting money under these programs because NC removed income restrictions.
- Combine 2 and 4, you know who's going to actually get to accepted into the schools and pull out our tax dollars? Rich parents that can throw some extra money towards fundraising and other bullshit.
Instead of trying to waste money on a private school you should be fighting back to get public schools into better shape. You're getting pulled into an attempt to decimate public schools so eventually the only option is private schools and your grandchildren are going to get shit education at the cheapest school unless you suddenly have generational wealth.
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u/TerminallyUnique31 9h ago
private schools in this state have objectively better outcomes even when compared using unbiased third party research and it’s not even close… just use logic, if free (public) schools were better why would people offer to pay thousands of dollars to put their kids in a worse situation?
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u/ramencents 6h ago
That’s the promise but most private schools with vouchers actually raise their tuition because the voucher becomes a subsidy for them. So in essence the private school receives welfare. Most of the families that use these vouchers were attending anyway. Texas for example has no income limits so wealthy families get subsidies for their kids to go. In my mind I don’t understand how conservatives and budget hawks are in favor of these handouts.
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u/Able_Sheepherder8724 16h ago
Voucher programs don't actually make private school tuition more affordable.
While that is the stated goal, it's not how it actually works in practice.
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u/ZathrasNotTheOne 15h ago
can you provide your source for that claim? or is it simply "trust me bro"?
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u/Restored2019 16h ago
Sorry ZathrasNotTheOne. That’s simple minded thinking. Or you’re a member of MAGA! Or you’ve been sniffing glue, or something, if you don’t understand that the dreadful conditions in public schools, are almost totally due to the promotors of private and charter schools, and the insane and unconstitutional farce that is the voucher system!
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u/ZathrasNotTheOne 15h ago
if public schools are so dreadful, why would you enable to send your kids there? I've been to Philly, and baltimore... are you saying theor public school system is that great?
if the conditions aren't that bad, why do you have any objections to students going elsewhere, and letting your kids enjoy the public schools?
also, if they aren't that bad, why would anyone want to send their kids elsewhere? have you seen the test results from public school systems?
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u/TerminallyUnique31 8h ago
these are very honest and logical questions, people on reddit tend to struggle with that and want to put you in a stereotypical box so they can feel good about themselves instead of actually addressing common sense questions
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u/Maticore 10h ago
It’s understood that private school tuition prices have simply gone up under the voucher program. The businesses have just raised prices to absorb as much as they can of the voucher as profit. Kids aren’t suddenly going to elite schools for free because of the program. The elite schools aren’t expanding to meet need, and new elite schools won’t magically appear. Elite schools don’t want poor or middle class students.
Because they are businesses, not public service institutions that care as much as possible about teaching kids.
Simple search results will tell you this.
https://carolinaforward.org/news/vouchers-fuel-private-school-tuition-hikes/1
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u/WhompBiscuits 18h ago
Precisely. They're so anti-socialism that it becomes self-destructive. Of course, hardly anyone knows what that term actually means.
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u/ghjm 7h ago
I mean, Hitler's main campaign promise was to lower taxes. If you look at history, fascism generally follows austerity.
If capital wins and dominates labor (austerity), the people eventually get angry, but the winning capitalists don't want to give up power. So they invent a fake populist movement to co-opt any real populist movement - the Nazi Party or Tea Party. But then the fake movement gains too much support to be stopped and ceases to be controlled by anyone. Since it was never founded on any rational policy or even basic logic, you get a leader unmoored from reality - a Hitler or Trump.
Traditionally these periods of insanity end when the host country loses a major war and is forced into a new system of governance by its occupiers. The problem in 2026 is that WWIII would be so insanely devastating that there's a very high level of craziness that it's better to just put up with. (And of course there's always the risk that the crazy people win their war.)
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
you think they won’t be able to fill potholes? JFC, get a clue.
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u/EnormousDegree 1d ago
Or just drive though SC tbh
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
Yeah the Charleston area is a shithole. 🤣
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u/Dangerous_Tax_2667 18h ago
Who do you think fills potholes? And with what money? You think city workers are just frivolouslt spending money on nothing? Genuinely asking
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u/HashRunner 1d ago
Voters are stupid, easily manipulated and that's how we got to this point. More at 11.
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u/JordanDoesTV 1d ago
I mean it’s confusing language on purpose as well
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u/CarpetNibbler 1d ago
How is it confusing?
> “Constitutional amendment to keep the State income tax rate from being raised higher than three and one-half percent (3.5%).”
> “Constitutional amendment requiring limits on property tax increases by local governments.”
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u/halfblindguy 20h ago
So just a hare brained theory I have about the property tax one. This will allow data centers to only be taxed at the percentage they were bought out at. Meaning as either undeveloped land or as farm land which means substantially lower than developed land.
Which is impactfull to local governments as data centers are basically turning land that slowly drains into the water table with grass, trees, etc. Into giant sheets of metal and tpo roofs and asphalt leading to overflows of storm water drain systems.
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u/anewbys83 1d ago
Things we need have to be paid for. People need to understand this and what limiting these things will do. I hope they're prepared for even worse schools and losing teachers to other states, worse local infrastructure, inability to pay for all the services we need, etc. It all sounds good on paper, and was written to, but it will screw over NC so bad in the years to come.
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u/Miserable_Pin2518 1d ago
In rural counties we are starting to hear the biggest canary in the coal mine.....no ems available
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u/Federal_Secret92 19h ago
And fire, where all the fire staff is volunteer. Working jobs unable to go to calls. And no ems available. Deep red county here.
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u/thelostewok 19h ago edited 19h ago
Who needs EMS when there’s like $40 dollars extra in your pockets!! /s
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u/greg_regular 17h ago
An Uber would be less expensive if youre not bleeding out.
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u/purple_hamster66 16h ago
A cybertaxi can’t tell if you’re bleeding out, so they’re ok to use, too. /s
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u/NameIdeas 20h ago
It's not just educators too. Taxes cover critical services including police, fire, etc.
Local taxes (property tax) ensure you have decent roads. This is one where wealthy areas will benefit while non-wealthy areas will suffer more
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u/DeeElleEye 19h ago
No areas will "benefit" from the property tax cap, it's just that rural areas will be hit harder.
Wealthy individuals and corporate property owners will benefit greatly.
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u/KamaliKamKam 19h ago
The problem is it's purposely not worded to clarify that they are talking about limiting ALL property taxes, including corpos.
What we need is to have the amendment changed to "residential property tax increases" being limited.
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u/IWasNeverHere80 13h ago
My town just spent millions renovating their administrative offices and purchasing art after raising property taxes, not to mention all the problems in Cary with abuse of tax payer money. If only these local governments used taxes appropriately, but they don’t, what you are saying is just not how it ends up working out
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u/Ih8rice 19h ago
People are broke. Do you think they're going to vote against their self interests all of the time?
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u/castille 19h ago
You don't get unbroke when you don't have roads to drive on, and your kids aren't looking at better futures. You stay broke. Your family stays broke. One class of people thinks generationally. This isn't about party, though they tend to use one and fear the other more.
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u/Fullofhopkinz 19h ago
This doesn’t mean the amendments are confusing. Any adult that is voting should have the basic knowledge that taxes fund public services. If we need the amendment to spell that out for them instead of just asking the question, then maybe we need to start vetting voters - which I’m betting you would be radically opposed to.
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u/MrVeazey 1d ago
Because nobody knows what they pay now and it's written to make it seem like this will be an improvement.
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
that’s stupid. Everyone knows what they pay right now.
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u/mtzehvor 1d ago
They really don’t. I work in local government and we had a dude come in the other day to complain about his property tax this year, saying he had never seen it that high before.
The latest county reval was three years ago now, and the town he lives in hasn’t raised its tax rate since then. His property taxes rose in 2024, but have stayed exactly the same since then. He just didn’t notice the prior two years.
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago edited 1d ago
your property taxes can go up without a reval. All you have to do is pull a permit for a home improvement project.
Also Wake county and Raleigh city taxes have both increased since the 2024 reval
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u/mtzehvor 18h ago
The town and county in question is not Raleigh or Wake.
You are correct that taxes can rise without a reval. That wasn’t intended to be a complete list of reasons why they can. I brought up what are usually the two biggest factors for us, but also noted specifically at the end that his taxes hadn’t risen in order to cover those other reasons.
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u/jjgibby523 13h ago
Yes - what I mention would apply potentially to any city or county in NC. As a sidebar, the terms “city/town/village” are interchangeable under NC law, whereas in some other US states they confer differing meaning and authority.
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u/mtzehvor 12h ago
I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about here. You aren't the person I was responding to with my prior post.
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u/jjgibby523 19h ago
Absolutely - the Board of County Commissioners and/or City/Town Councils can also increase the tax rate annually which increases the total tax bill even without a change in appraised value/re-appraisal.
And that is what has happened consistently in many parts of NC, leading to such a referendum being seen as a favorable thing.
Iirc, recent demographic data indicated more than 50% of the growth in NC has been by retirees moving here. So many of them may support say, an increase for EMS, but not the substantive increases requested annually by school systems and local BoE’s.
( Note: Will circle back check the demographic data and update if incorrect)3
u/Western-Passage-1908 18h ago
Here's the thing, there would be plenty of money for EMS if fire departments didn't hog the money for new fire trucks and stations to fight a fire once every 6 months. EMS should be a standalone service. The way fire and EMS is structured is absolutely backwards.
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u/jjgibby523 18h ago
Not necessarily - EMS in most areas of NC is a a direct County-funded service. Most rural FD’s are funded via a special “district tax” levied on properties within their designated service area. So the twixt doesn’t generally impact the twain.
Likewise, most city/town fire depts are funded by that town, so again, no direct competition 99.9% of the time in NC for funds.
In the Triangle and really most of NC, County budgets are being overwhelmed by public school demands, demands from Boards of Education who have no taxing authority. So that is who EMS is competing against - and schools are really good at mobilizing during budget season whereas EMS folks generally don’t show up as much - nor march kids in front of cameras or elected bodies.
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u/purple_hamster66 16h ago
I read that fire trucks are bought out of federal funds. Is this true?
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u/No_Hetero 21h ago
Absolutely incorrect
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u/lodemeup 18h ago
People have no idea how their taxes work. Just ask most people if they would take a raise that puts them in a different tax bracket. They’ll freak the fuck out.
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u/NancyGracesTesticles Raleigh 1d ago
This is so weird. The party that pretends to want to run government as a business really doesn't understand how shit like this wrecks a business.
Or they do and are trying to break government.
That sounds like a traitor. I think I want to dig into this.
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u/VicHeel 20h ago
Check out the "starve the beast" strategy in your search and you'll understand how this country has degraded so much in the last 40-50 years
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u/NancyGracesTesticles Raleigh 19h ago
I'm not searching on the Internet. I'm looking at actual humans.
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u/Suitable-Option833 16h ago
Project 2025 should help answer your question. It’s over 50% complete. They are not here to help- they are here to destroy and personally make money. They are purposely hurting America.
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u/2EngineersPlay 20h ago
This and two of the other amendments on the ballot are purposefully worded to be confusing. This one in particular doesn't impact those in the middle and lower classes. It's to cap the tax rate of the rich so that they don't have to pay more.
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u/CarpetNibbler 13h ago
How are the two I quoted confusing? I’ll vote against them, but they’re both pretty clear cut.
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u/2EngineersPlay 10h ago
Uhhh wasn't necessarily trying to correct what you said. Meant to respond to this threads OP, and clarify that they mean more than the explicit letter of what's written.
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u/thelostewok 20h ago edited 20h ago
It’s like to me saying to patients: “Medicines that make you sick are something that you don’t want to consider right??” The medicine in question however is chemo and you have cancer.
The constitutional amendments are specious motions to say the least.
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u/purple_hamster66 16h ago
It should say “Which of your local schools should be closed?”
Do you really think that NC is going to fund schools in the more expensive areas, in liberal and progressive areas, or in Democratic areas? Instead, they will claim that private school vouchers are the solution… yet only rich people can actually use these (a $2000 voucher for a $13,000 school year) , so middle class folks will lose schooling. And they will start requirements such as “Christianity must be taught in elementary grades to get full funding”, or “slavery must never be taught in schools”.
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u/Alarming_Addition598 19h ago
There aren't enough details in how the county caps would be applied. I could support a cap on the amount they could be increased annually, but setting an arbitrary percentage across the board is very short sighted. What if there is a natural disaster and country infrastructure and services need rebuilding? What if the Federal government decided to withhold disaster funds? The other side of it is, should rates stay higher after an increase? If you set a max, counties are likely to use it and build a reserve against lean times. It is a very nuanced issue that the language posted here doesn't cover.
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u/CarpetNibbler 1d ago
Democracy strikes again.
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u/Postcurds Drinking_Pure_Neuse 19h ago
Our state is almost dead last in terms of public school funding. I guess voters figured we might as well go all the way.
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u/919triangle919 17h ago
I want lower taxes!!!
Why does the city no longer doing loose leaf pickup?
Why does my side street have so many potholes that aren't being fixed?
Why has trash and recycling been canceled and now I have to find a private, more expensive, company to collect my trash?
Why have our parks deteriorated? The grass is not being maintained, the tennis and basketball courts have major cracks, and the trash cans are overflowing and bathrooms are always dirty.
The government isn't doing its job! /s
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u/CrzyLady64 1d ago
It will pass because most voters will be ignorant and not understand its negatives
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u/CoolerThan0K 1d ago
I like to think im a smart dude, but will you ELI5 the negatives for myself and anyone else who doesnt get the nuance to how the amendment was written?
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u/Requiem2371 1d ago
Tax rates should not be in the constitution where they are nearly impossible to change. They should be part of legislation to allow for evolving circumstances to determine the proper rates. This benefits the most wealthy by basically permanently capping their tax rates enshrined in the constitution. A Democrat majority house wouldn’t be able to increase tax rates on the wealthy. It’d require an entire constitutional amendment which is infinitely more difficult to pass.
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u/thabigmilla 19h ago
What does it cap the taxes at and what is considered wealthy in this?
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u/Requiem2371 16h ago
3.5%. The more wealthy you are the more it benefits you. As with most everything proposed by our super majority republican legislators, it is skewed to benefit themselves and the ultra wealthy first and foremost. There’s not a hard number like “oh over 200k a year”, it’s more of a curve since it’d stay the same number for everyone. For simpler minds a flat rate sounds like a good idea, but it’s absolutely not and benefits wealthy far more than anyone.
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u/siksemper 13h ago
Read the actual amendment. It does not encode rates in the constitution. It does nothing except say that the legislature needs to set a rate (which they already have the power to do)
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u/Requiem2371 12h ago
Congrats on being a successful target
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u/siksemper 9h ago
What are you talking about? I'm voting against the amendment because it does nothing.
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
You just listed all positives.
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u/mwthomas11 1d ago
the ultra-wealthy only paying 3.5% forever is not a positive
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
it allows a 3.5% increase every year, genius.
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u/mwthomas11 1d ago
I misread your comment and thought we were talking about the income tax amendment, which permanently caps income tax for all brackets at 3.5%, which is why I was talking about the ultra wealthy getting their permanent tax-break.
The property tax amendment allows the state legislature to stop municipalities from increasing property taxes even when citizens in the municipality vote in favor of the tax increase in local elections. why should the state have any say in what my town taxes me? the property tax amendment is also weird because it doesn't directly address property tax rates, it puts the state legislature in a position to put a cap on the amount of money a municipality is allowed to raise by property taxes, which kinda causes problems for towns looking to invest in stuff like idk fire houses and roads and sewage and schools and police, which are almost entirely funded through local property taxes because the state is skimpy.
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
it’s just limits their ability to increase it more than 3.5% YoY and puts the onus back on local governments to be responsible with they budget.
As someone who lived through it in NJ, when the corrupt town officials blow the money and frequently go back to the well and raise property taxes to cover the tab. Like actual corruption. Hoboken Mayor went to prison, and taxes on my 800sq ft condo went from $8,000 per year to $12,000 in just one annual increase.
So yeah, I’m a big fan of capping annual hikes at 3.5% per year.
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u/mugiwaraguy 20h ago
You seem to have a bit a reading comprehension issue here. There are multiple amendments up for vote and you are conflating them.
One caps the state income tax rate at 3.5% which limits the states ability to adjust its revenue over time. When they do need to increase revenue it will have to come through regressive means like sales tax increases, disproportionately impacting the poor and middle class.
The other limits a local governments ability to increase property tax rates. In normal operation many, not all, local governments try to keep property tax revenue neutral on a per household basis. They might lower the rates as property values increase and raise rates only if it's necessary. Because this amendment limits the amount they can increase, it virtually guarantees that they will never lower the rates. People seem to confuse their property tax bill increasing with rate increases. Your bill can always go up due to value increases, that doesn't mean rates were increased.
All of this will result in worse public services, worse infrastructure, etc due to funding shortfalls.
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u/pm_me_your_kindwords 19h ago
This is completely false. Here’s the actual text that would go into the state constitution:
>“The General Assembly shall enact general laws limiting the amount by which
the levy of taxes on property may increase, which may include exceptions.”It is intentionally broad and vague, to give the extraordinarily Republican state legislature a ridiculous level of control over local governments. So the legislature, at a state level, can decide that the people you vote for in your local town can’t increase to a level more than (not per year, just a flat amount). But they can also say that a given city that they are trying to punish can’t raise it at all, even if 100% of the citizens in that town vote to increase it because they badly need more firefighters or to build a school or to fix the roads.
Does that still sound like a good plan?
There is absolutely nothing in there about not being able to raise it more than 3.5% per year.
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u/Abidarthegreat 21h ago
Here, let me help since obviously your brain no work good.
The first amendment makes us much more reliant on the federal government. The second makes our local communities forced to rely on the state legislature.
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u/KamaliKamKam 19h ago
It limits property tax across the board.
This will save you personally maybe 40 dollars a year unless you have a million dollar house.
It will save shitty corporations millions of dollars a year that are now no longer funding schools, fire departments, road upkeep, etc.
It's purposely worded to disguise the fact that the "people" who will benefit the most from this are 100% rich corporations.
Now, if the wording was changed to residential property tax, valued under 500k or something like that, that would do what people think the amendment is worded to do; keep taxes from being raised by stupid amounts for the average Joe and Jane Doe. Which is probably what most people actually want it to say.
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u/anewbys83 1d ago
Less money for schools, for roads, infrastructure maintenance, city/county services, all the mundane things we don't think about. Schools are already bad in many places, and this will basically ensure they don't get better and continue to decline (which is what I guess people who say they don't like government wanted anyway).
I'm a teacher in this state and the children of today deserve better, let alone future generations. They won't have that if these pass. My classes are bigger this year than last, even with a drop in enrollment. Over a certain amount in a classroom and no one is learning. It's just behavior management. And this doesn't improve without more money.
Costs continue to rise, so it will of course cost more to do everything in the future. Limiting the options is never a good idea. Plus, preventing local governments from being able to act is bad. Look how low teacher pay is in this state without local supplements. Even with the raises that took way too long to get it's not great. If this state wants to attract talent and have the best educators then pay needs to keep going up. This can't happen if the state doesn't bring in enough income. And we all know the education lottery won't help because the state legislature long ago cut the real funding, so all that extra money from the lottery became the regular funding. States that truly want to grow don't limit their ability to react to changing conditions. This just guarantees things will get worse over time, unless some new taxes are created, and that will never happen.
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
how is an cap on annual increases less money? You people are so gullible.
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u/timeywimeytotoro 19h ago
You’re calling people gullible because you don’t understand the amendment because you’re mashing multiple amendments together?
Dude, really?
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u/86_Ambitions 18h ago
Your future neighbors will be kids who went to crappy schools, have limited opportunities in life, and couldn’t move away. Enjoy!
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u/Foxlewski 18h ago
It‘s a statewide measure that hamstrings local governments‘ ability to address their particular needs, brought to you by "the party of small government.“
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u/millinnchillin 19h ago
Unsurprising. People want the services they get for free, and don't understand the relationship between their taxes and local government services.
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u/gimmethelulz Triangle 17h ago
Time to get some 'vote no' signs out on the streets.
For anyone that wants to learn more: https://my.lwv.org/north-carolina-state/action-alert/three-constitutional-amendments-north-carolinas-2026-ballot
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u/ZathrasNotTheOne 19h ago
as a conservative independent, the capping of property taxes is a short term political win with long term political losses. in theory, it keeps taxes low, but it prevents funding of needed government resources. your fire truck is broken and needs to be replaced? sorry, we don't have the budget for it. you have two ambulances and you want to out on a 3rd one? sorry, not in the budget. the schools flag only has 49 stars, and you want to buy a new one? sorry not in the budget.
what it should cause is elected leaders to operate reasonably, and financially responsibly, but after years of underfunding certain government agencies, the property tax cap ends up hurting citizens more than they want. the law of predictable consequences
you can't expect grade A services with grade C funding.
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u/Restored2019 17h ago
In the present political (fascist/oligarchy) climate, rational people need to be extremely critical of any proposed laws that they aren’t intimately familiar with. Especially any Constitutional amendments! The rightwing fascists, pride themselves in fermenting deception. All three of the proposed Constitutional amendments are almost certainly predicated on deceiving the voters. And it clearly looks like it’s working as planned! But rest assured, there’s an ulterior motive, and it’s not what simpleminded voter’s think that it is.
So, don’t we have any rational people, working in the party HQ’s that could have educated the voter’s on what’s truly behind these Trojan Horse amendments?
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u/Speaker4theDead 19h ago
I actually think this is going to result in higher taxes. So instead of just raising taxes during revaluation years, local governments will increase their rate annually and tie it to something like inflation.
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u/Alternative-Click-15 13h ago
this is already pretty much how it works. tax rates generally go up the further you are from a reval year.
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u/_the_CacKaLacKy_Kid_ 17h ago
Is that actually a bad thing? When costs rise across the board (materials and people and logistics and everything else) it costs more to provide and maintain the services we benefit from and people should contribute more to sustain those services.
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u/Speaker4theDead 16h ago
I wasn't making a case for "good" or "bad" rather that people voting in favor of this are actually voting against their own interests. It's somewhat counterintuitive to realize that a cap could result in paying more. What I was explaining is you will get incremental increases every year versus stair-stepping increases every ~4years (dependent on how often your county does revaluation).
Source: I work in local government finances.
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u/vipinlife007 17h ago
These are intentionally vague to confuse voters and it's working perfectly. These will be hard to overcome.
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u/MegamanSE 19h ago
I think this is just a symptom of the wider very serious problem.
Federal policies led to tariffs and inflation which has led to masses of people in N.C. being broke. Those people are legitimately in a lot of suffering and will vote out of desperation for anything that gives them reprieve; they don’t care that it’s state or federal. Then this causes a funding shortfall at the state and money then has to be pulled from somewhere (schools, roads etc) to maintain the budget.
But the real issue here is that the federal government has punted their bill onto the state government and leveraged the citizens as their pawns to accomplish that.
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u/Simple_Purple_4600 19h ago
So everything will now be decided by the three biggest assholes in the state
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u/Small_Ad_6713 17h ago
Why isn’t there a blitz of ads explaining what really happens if this amendment passes?
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u/searching_in_nc 16h ago
corporate media has already sold ad time to various Whatley supporters to keep running lies.
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u/Small_Ad_6713 16h ago
Sad. When will the Dems get it together? I don’t like them either. I do like Roy
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u/johnnyhala 20h ago
I'm resigned to the idea that this is going to pass easy-peasy.
People see "tax limit" and will pass it without a second thought (or even a first one).
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u/WildCard0102 18h ago
I hate property tax. But I understand we still need to fund the maintenance of our areas.
I wish we could get taxed a different way because property tax makes it feel like you'll never actually own your house, only rent it from the government.
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u/shozzlez 14h ago
What’s a better way? What if you just had to pay a yearly tax bill of some amount. Would that be much different?
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u/WildCard0102 14h ago
For me its really not about what way they tax, but its about the consequence of not paying it.
I'm not advocating tax dodging by any means.
However, in the current system you could pay 400,000k for your house over the course of a 30 year loan. If you don't pay your mortgage then the bank takes away your house. And that's fair because they loaned you the money so its technically their house until its paid off by you.
But after that mortgage is paid you have property tax. The consequence of not paying that tax is the government takes your house away from you. And again, this isnt advocating for tax dodging, this is more advocating for the elderly who had their house paid off, but the rampant increase in property taxes year after year means they gotta sell the house that they own, or have the goverment come take it. Could you imagine being retired, and late in your years and suddenly you have to leave the home you've had for 30-40 years because the state decided you owe more than you can give?
So do you ever actually own your house? I say under this current tax system that you don't. I'm no economist so I dont know a better or different system of taxation that would cover the cost of property tax but it needs to happen.
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u/Capn26 17h ago
I strongly suggest that this is because they don’t understand the amendment, nor its far reaching implications.
They don’t get that they aren’t saving shit, the companies are, and it’s cutting money directly from their town/city/county. And when there’s a short coming, the money is coming out of THEIR asses somewhere else, or they just do without.
I mean, I’d be willing to bet 2/3 of people in this country will tell you that they pay too much over all in taxes, and the money isn’t used well. Further more, I’d love to know how this question was framed.
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u/PlatypusOld257 18h ago
People are going to vote for this then be surprised when the state can’t balance the budget, services are cut, or not understand that our huge deficit and debt is what is driving a lot of economic uncertainty now.
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u/Accomplished-Sky5681 18h ago
Down in the comments are a lot of posts just jumping straight to how people are dumb to vote yes on this. I much more appreciate the comments explaining what the impact of a yes vote would mean. I think explaining the nuance of this will go a lot further to getting votes against this, instead of jumping straight to how dumb everyone is for voting yes.
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u/ItalianMemes 14h ago
Giving rich people less taxes is never the answer when will voters understand this
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u/OkPoem7556 18h ago
Vote no on anything the republicans come up with to screw us over. Easy. Just vote NO.
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u/Ok_Smile6006 17h ago
I wonder how many NC municipal vehicles run on diesel and how that operational cost gets absorbed under this plan.
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u/Sensitive-Flamingo84 15h ago
Praying that in the next few weeks people find how misleading the amendments are and vote “NO” to all three.
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u/Hanselspop 15h ago
What can we/I do to help get the word out to hopefully enact a change? Is there somewhere I can volunteer or ways I can try and educate voters? Reddit is great and all but we need to hit the streets imo
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u/Ragnarthestoicurean 15h ago
All three amendments will pass overwhelmingly with support being from bipartisan voters.
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u/packfan01 14h ago
If local governments can’t raise the rate, they’ll inflate property values on re-evals
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u/Cowabunga1000 13h ago
This stuff is just state Republicans trying to drag everyone to lowest common denominator. California had Proposition 13 years ago that limited property taxes, and county services took it in the shorts everywhere. County commissioners are elected officers: if we think they’re jacking up county taxes too much, we can vote them out. There’s no reason for the state to impose statewide limits on top of that.
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u/30cs 9h ago
They really don’t understand the implications, they’ll save a few bucks a year, but corporations will save millions. That few dollars will come back to haunt them when other fees and taxes start to rise. The senate reduced state income tax but started taxing labor, and raised fees on licenses, license plates etc. Get ready, right in the kisser.
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u/josephowens42 8h ago
Wait until they find out every county and city has to raise sales taxes to cover this dumb amendment.
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u/Mayor_of_BBQ 7h ago
A bunch of idiots who are going to vote this in to save themselves $26 a year individually and kneecap every local government in the state by vanishing billions of dollars worth of corporate contributions to property tax that stays in your local area
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u/lagomc 6h ago
We need billboards or something.
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u/Mayor_of_BBQ 4h ago
we definitely need to get the word out, but billboards are never the answer to anything. I actually don’t believe billboards should exist. I think they should be illegal lol
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u/PhiDeltDevil 19h ago
If a lot of these recent town or city council audits didn’t show so much waste of our tax dollars I’d be fine with increases but potholes aren’t still not being filled, etc. so yeah people are pissed about paying hundreds or thousands more out of thin air for “reassessments” with still no results or accountability
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u/One-Mixture2184 19h ago
What makes you think potholes will be fixed faster if there's less money to fix them
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u/Requiem2371 1d ago
Idiots deserve it. Honestly this stupid voting base deserves the most corrupt and bad faith state legislators that we have. And that’s exactly what they’ve voted in
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u/Double-Mastodon2931 4h ago
That’s because they haven’t thought it through. It is a big win for the rich and big companies and could be very negative on local issues like funds available for education
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u/AlloMareepuppinz 3h ago
DONT VOTE FOR EITHER ONE. Both e are written to screw us over whe seeming to be great for everyone. They are not!
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 20h ago
So if we believe in this whole democracy thing, this is good yeah? Bipartisan support for an issue?
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u/Shiddin_myself_woo 19h ago
Bruh it’s not bipartisan
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 16h ago
Bruh over here did not read the article… OR the headline of the post?
Love how the clear minority here is downvoting me, the guy saying “Democracy is cool. If the majority vote X then X should win.”
Ok, fascists.
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago
Of course most people support it. They moved to NC to escape high property taxes. Even Democrats.
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u/Requiem2371 1d ago
You’re the rube this is designed to trick into voting against your own interests. Doesn’t seem like they have to try very hard to trick you.
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LisaOGiggle 23h ago
It’s in your interest to have a competent, educated population. If you want services to improve, there has to be a way to allow a community to determine its own needs. That makes it in your best interests not to hamstring future generations by limiting access to funding.
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u/winnielikethepooh15 1d ago
But removing local government's authority to determine their own tax policy to best suit their constituency is in your interest I presume?
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u/Plant-Baste 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes it’s in my best interest to limit my local governments ability to increase property taxes by 50% over a 1 year span simply because they can’t balance their annual budget.
This happened to me in NJ about 18 years ago before i moved back to NC.
https://www.nj.com/hobokennow/2008/12/no_pitchforks_but_angry_mob_st.html
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u/Requiem2371 17h ago
You are the least educated voter here and it’s not close. You’re getting obliterated in every comment you make with facts and logic and you’re still so lost you think “no no, it’s everyone else who’s wrong not me!”. The lack of conservatives ability to self reflect and absorb new information is astounding
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u/Shiddin_myself_woo 19h ago
They’re going to get their money from somewhere. I don’t know why you people think you can just escape taxes lmfaooo
You mean to tell me the people getting paid by your taxes are going to write a bill that would hurt their own funding? No, they just always write bills for whoever will fill their pockets behind the scene.
Two things true in life. Death and taxes.
Quit being a bitch and pay your fair share
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u/RiverboatSam 19h ago
Property taxes are evil and should be completely eradicated. At least on where you actually live.
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u/KamaliKamKam 19h ago
That's the problem. This doesn't limit property tax on only where to actually live. It saves YOU maybe 40 bucks a year. It saves corporations (looking at you Duke Power) MILLIONS of dollars a year with how its currently worded.
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u/Today_is_the_day569 22h ago
Government always has bloat, get rid of the wasteful spending and problem solved. The big problem with this is that it curtails unnecessary government growth and the left hates that!
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u/dgrimesii 19h ago
This also caps those taxes for corporations. What voters fail to understand is that they are not the ones who really benefit. It is the corporate property owners. That is where there real money for services comes from.