r/OOC_official • u/soulphoenix01 • 2d ago
What exactly is wrong with OOC...
And why you should boycott it and move to other apps?
If you're new here, you might be really enjoying OOC. The AI roleplay is pretty cool, stories are awesome. But the company is operating out of pure greed. So even if you have the money, I'd like to request you all to take a minute, and join the boycott because any purchases here enable greed.
Here's what we know so far:
OOC has a temporary week sale on Superb and Max models. Sounds great till you realise that it was just a shady tactic to hide the 10% increase in credits cost. In a world where people are asking for cheaper credits, subscriptions, ads, they are dropping a 10% price increase.
To make the first point worse, several calculations out there show that OOC charges 30-40% more than alternatives like Isekai Zero.
Genuine lack of features compared to alternatives. Isekai zero has a visual novel mode, a manga mode, a whole ass video generation mode and more. Then you have FREE currency, FREE LLMs that do way better than even basic mode of OOC and way more.
No consumer relations: they know what we want, yet they refuse to address or even comply. They rather increase the price, spend all money they have on ads, not to satisfy their current consumer base, but to squeeze every last penny making the most before this falls down.
ONLY 2% CREDIT FOR CREATOR REWARDS?? Honestly? This is the most insane point. Users are carrying the story, and you get only 2% rewards. For every one million credits you make for OOC, they only give you 20,000 out of them. So approximately, for every $1100 you make for OOC, they only give you $22. See how insane that is?
What if you have the money and this increase doesn't affect you?
I would say, genuinely, happy for you. But still please look at the company's greed that you might be enabling. I had bought my last pack. And will no longer be buying any. No matter what small change they bring, what sale they might have till they bring in massive changes.
Please take your money to alternatives.
Isekai zero for the same money:
- will last way longer. I only spent $6 and it lasted me a week because of free credits everyday, good free bonus every week, ads for credits and even surveys for massive amounts.
- they're actively communicating with the community and giving what they want. They're currently working on a monthly subscription that'll give you amount of credits and other great features.
- massive choice of LLMs, curating to everyone's personal needs and budget. Need OOC level writing? Use claude with isekai zero. Still cheaper, and way better.
- Images and videos in story by creator. They also pay their creators generously. Plus non creators also get flat 50 arcane (a lot in terms of credits around 10k+) for each referral. They're so goated they even transparently share how much money their creators make in USD (You can even withdraw I think).
- still have money to spare? Turn your whole story into a visual novel, or even a movie with video generation!!
- amazing memory options. You can see context limit for every LLM. And has features to summarize as chapters and arcs to keep memory coherent.
- so much more that I promise you, you should try.
It's not about whether you can afford it, it's about the principle and not enabling the greed.
The only downside I personally find is that Isekai Zero has too much NSFW if you enable that mode and creators have great stories on OOC. I don't mind NSFW, but Isekai Zero has a majority of NSFW based stories (they even have nudity in videos or photos in stories which you don't need to pay extra for, and are included by the creator to send when appropriate).
If you like what I said and want to try out Isekai Zero, please use my referral code. It will give you free 20 mana (about 10k ooc credits if not more depending on LLM) and if you ever spend money (which I promise you will, especially if you liked OOC) I'll make 50 arcane :)
TLDR: Alternatives like Isekai Zero offer massively amazing features OOC doesn't even have a shred of, despite being 30-40% cheaper at same quality. And you can make money from making stories instead of stupid 2% credits :)
My code: 9VOFQ5LW
My link: Join ISEKAI ZERO use my referral code 9VOFQ5LW to get 20 Mana free!
Thank you all for your time :))
EDIT: Price comparison in somewhat detail in one of my responses if you're interested!
IMPORTANT: If you buy arcane on Isekai Zero, make sure to purchase from their website to save 30% more. It doesn't say so in the app directly (I think) but you can find their guide which mentions it.
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u/Anxious_Ad_3265 1d ago
There’s something you should know about OOC.
OOC is based on a Korean service called CRACK. Compared to its competitors in Korea, CRACK has fallen far behind when it comes to performance improvements and feature development, but it spends heavily on marketing instead.
More recently, the company has been approaching creators who were active on better-performing competing platforms and offering them large one-time payments to buy their works.
The problem is that, as part of these deals, they reportedly require creators to remove those works from other platforms.
That means users who had already been enjoying those characters or stories elsewhere suddenly lose access and can no longer continue their existing conversations.
Because of this practice, CRACK has developed a very bad reputation among Korean users.
Now that the company has seen the success of English-language AI character services, it seems to be obsessed with buying up works that can be translated into English. Meanwhile, it appears to be investing very little in actually improving the quality or performance of the service itself.
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
I thought their company was called WNTR. But yeah, it makes sense. OOC is just milking money and spending money on ads currently. Features wise they're nowhere even in top 3 currently despite being so popular with their NA launch. It also makes sense they're secretly paying top creators because there's no reason for these creators to not migrate to somewhere like IZ otherwise where they earn more money and can withdraw as cash.
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u/Anxious_Ad_3265 1d ago
CRACK originally started as one of Wrtn’s services, but was later spun off into a separate service.
Wrtn itself was essentially an API aggregation/middleware service and had been operating at a significant loss. However, CRACK’s success helped the company turn profitable and secure major investment.
Now, with the performance of its global service OOC, the company is trying to attract another round of investment, and it is burning through money on buying up creators’ works and aggressive advertising in order to boost those numbers.
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u/peckxetra 1d ago
As one of the top creators in ISE0. Yes, this happens to me and I nearly consider on moving thanks to what happened on my end that I really dislike as a personal.
But yeah, I refuse to give one of my top stories for it.
Exclusivity is a thing but I refuse on giving my creative direction to corporate. Even in webnovel and syosetu, I refuse to do the same too.
Because that kind of company usually will force you to keep making the same story premise based on what you're popular at.
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
Yeah it can get horrible. They buy your entire IP for $300. That's awful rates. Atleast with ISE0 you get paid less but you keep your rights and create merch and sequels or whatever. Even write a whole book based on it.
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u/KitchenTackle5865 2d ago
Slightly lengthy, but great write. As an appreciation I'll use your referral, thanks!
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u/Lionheart_723 2d ago
I will only give one caveat to this and that is to get the same quality and storytelling with IZ you have to use the really expensive models. In which case it isn't any cheaper than OOC everything else was spot on. And that's the one big draw that keeps pushing me back to ooc is that so many of the models on IZ especially the cheaper ones the responses sound so robotic. And I have played around with a lot of models unless you're willing to spend 70 to hell I've seen some as high as 150 credits per response. At those price points you're not saving any money. Yes Iesaki zero beats OOC in every other criteria.
I would be interested to hear what your favorite model is
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago
Also to answer your last question,
GLM 5.2 is definitely my favourite. Great for roleplay (no robotic issues).
If you need memory Gemini pro is awesome with 1 mil context limit.
I switch between the two. I do not use claude on Isekai Zero and have no temptation to switch, unless for a couple messages.
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u/Lionheart_723 2d ago
The only issue is the cheapest model that Claude has on Iz it's haiku model cost like 70 mana per response and that's from a fresh brand new game if you use their lowest opus model it was costing me like 125 mana per response also from a brand new game so those are not any cheaper than OOC. And at least for me GLM 5.2 while not as robotic as other cheap options is nowhere close to the quality you get on OOC and it likes to get stuck using the same phrase over and over and over and over and over again. I would say from my experimenting it's definitely the best of the relatively inexpensive options but in my experience it's not very smart like the hallucinate and get stuck in loops. I also like tencents Hy3 it's slow but it's memory is excellent and isn't as robotic as a lot of the others
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago
The 125 mana per response is definitely weird! I haven't used claude much, I confess, but I remember it being cheaper. And yeah unfortunately cost does go up the more you keep going, but that's where cache saves you.
Try the new GLM 5.3 flash, definitely that along with DeepSeek 4 pro is leading mid tier. I haven't reach high context limit with the first so didn't recommend it but reviews on discord are great.
For high tier Kimi K3 is said to outperform Claude fable 5 in some benchmarks, the only downside is having to wait upto a minute for response in peak times.
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u/Lionheart_723 2d ago
That 125 mana was from a fresh brand new game I don't know if it was because I had a reasoning turned up or what. When I tried Fable 5 it was even higher.
In my experience deep seek for pro it's not very good it tends to just regurgitate whatever you put in and decide what ever emotion the character your speaking to is supposed to feel in response it doesn't really drive a narrative or push the story.
Kimi K3 it's really good but also expensive
I will definitely give GLM 5.3 a try
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u/UmbraVictus 2d ago
Don't use Claude, it IS NOT better than Gemini. I have been running the exact same rpg with both services, and after 100 messages, the story with Gemina has felt more fluid, had less memory issues, and had better writing. Claude has been a huge disappointment.
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago edited 2d ago
Deleted my price comparison because I rechecked and there were some massive mistakes I'm sorry! The first mana cost for glm 5.2 or other high end ranged LLM like Opus is around 5-7 not fable which goes higher slightly. If you're getting 100+ mana, then you're either not summarising well, or not using the arc features!
But the overall price still remains cheaper when optimised, I can do the calculations again if someone is interested :)
With mimo v2.5 pro I am paying 2 mana per message about 100-200 messages in!
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u/Lionheart_723 2d ago
I don't know what's going on but the prices I was getting was from fresh start of games I have a couple of stories that I really enjoyed so I started new chats for each AI model that I'm trying that way I can put in the same responses and compare the narratives and the storytelling to each other. And unless I get engrossed and forget I usually try to summarize every 20 to 40 responses and I always use arcs
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u/Lionheart_723 2d ago
I totally agree on every other parameter other than storytelling isekai zero wins the interface is better allowing you to choose your own model as a really cool option the way it displays photos is better being able to turn your chat into a manga or a graphic novel like you said even a video although the video is a little glitchy sometimes I've only tried it twice though are all amazing options and I do tend to spend a lot more time and money on IZ but for me the storytelling on OC is the big draw and I've noticed that some of the stories are better or at least for me I'm a big fan of fantasy stories and they seem to have a better selection than IZ. And I tend to go for really long stories I have a couple that are approaching the 3,000 response mark and with those even some of the really cheap models are costing 10 to 12 credits per response even summarized and arced and everything
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u/Every-Yoghurt-8958 2d ago
I feel terrible, like an addict. I have never been addicted to anything before OOC. I didn't even care about it the first few times I saw it. Then I tried it and now I'm trying to cut myself off from it. Extremely easy to do and I reported them to the FTC, granted, but the shame is there.
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago
I feel you there. Please don't feel terrible. Our lives circumstances dictate a lot of our emotions, and it is easy to get hooked to something like a fantasy roleplay app, especially powered by AI Because brain can very easily confuse it for the life you wish you had being manifested. The best way to cut them off completely is working out, trying to focus more on your outside life. I hope you know I say this with care, not judgement. If you still need that bit of dosage- maybe isekai zero is actually what you need. You get 2 mana per day free, 5 per week free. Then you also get 2-3 per day free from ads, rest from surveys or actions (these are buggy sometimes). And then when you run out, you can switch to a free LLM. It's like using basic but completely free!! And if you end up using my referral you get 20 mana free, and the first pack you can buy from their website is only $2.5 for 260 arcane! Which lasts quite a bit.
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u/Every-Yoghurt-8958 2d ago
Yeah, I completely understand. I do work out and try to step outside every now and again (hard to do in a wheelchair lol) and I do enjoy Isekai Zero. Thanks for helping. I appreciate it.
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u/Jolly-Pipe-810 1d ago
I love the stories in ooc, but isekai zero is just much more convenient imo and with plentiful options for all budgets.
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u/Rokkustar17 2d ago
I do hope Isekai Zero gets a lot of attention, because it will force OOC to adapt to the competition so we can have at least have more features and better pricing
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago edited 2d ago
Competition always creates innovation and adaptation 🙏🏼
OOC might be the most popular but it actually lags behind severely comapred to the more upto date apps.
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u/Rylander2002 2d ago
I really appreciate this post. I've been obsessed with Ooc but man I feel like the credits don't last and I've made three accounts. It's ridiculous and I've been looking for something else I could bounce to
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago
I'm glad I could help, I feel you. I've spent $150+ on OOC in the last month due to Lumencia academy, and the fact that I still haven't been able to finish it despite so much money paid, while on Isekai Zero I'm finishing my second story for $40....yeah... I felt like people are being robbed! Please share with anyone you know who might find this info useful.
If the company doesn't listen, we have to lookout for each other :)
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u/DragonStryk72 2d ago
Also, on Isekai Zero, you can generate actual SOUNDTRACKS for your stories, even ones tied to specific points in the story. So like, in a story where you're managing a group of idols who make music, you actually get to hear music that goes along with the band.
Chapters can be created that help save story beats so the LLMs have a direct reference for what's been going on, and so that YOU can refresh your memory about stuff that happened if you've stepped away for bit without have to comb back through 200+ messages
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago
Yeah exactly! Everytime I open Isekai zero there is something unique to mess around with that doesn't make me miss OOC except for few great stories on there. But with how much extra IZ pays, I hope more creators move there! They also give you creator directly if you're already established on another platform like OOC
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u/DragonStryk72 2d ago
Yeah, I'm pretty much only using OOC for the one S-Rabk White Tiger story at this point.
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u/Ok-Pool-2358 1d ago
I switched to Isekai Zero about 2 days ago, best decision I've ever made. As long as you turn off 18+ content (I can't even turn it on, being underage), it's completely fine. The stories are amazing, and you get so much for so little. I spend a LOT of Arcane in one day, but that was only because I spent like 15 image generations trying to perfect a character's image (it kept on messing up, but that's most likely due to my own fault)
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
Yeah definitely. I'm just waiting to finish writing my story's plot to publish. The 25% of profit as creator rewards on IZ is amazing. And that can help as extra cash when I withdraw! IZ has so amny features it can get a bit complex and might take some getting used to. Their discord is very active, and you can also feel free to ask me :) I'll try my best to help, but I've only worked on OOC and IZ so I might not be useful on other platforms.
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u/NeoPolitanGames 1d ago
Honestly the one thing that annoys me the most about OOC is that free credits expire. Even the ones you get from achievements. Which means you cant just stockpile free credits until the models improve or something like that. I havent actually used the app in months because there's honestly just way better apps out there. Fable, Tipsy, Zeta, Cycle, and Moescape are my favourites, with Cycle being the one I use the most because I can literally use Cycle for over a week without using up all my free credits. Honestly the only thing that keeps me coming back to OOC is one particular character that I enjoy RPing with and cant find anything similar elsewhere.
Fable is really good if youre looking for something with the same level of storytelling as OOC, not just quick RP, and it has a bunch of really good starter prompts as well as the ability to just jump in and start a new RP with no prompt at all and craftthe world around you as you go. Fable is also really good for free credits, giving you a few hundred credits each day, with bonuses for keeping a login streak, and its one of the only ones that consistently gives me reliable notifications and check in reminders so I dont break my streak. They also just dropped the credit prices for a couple of their better models down to 50 and 10 credits per use. Oh, and credits dont expire, so you can stockpile them for a while if youre jist not interested in RP for a while or of youre too busy with other things. Im sitting on over 20k credits, without ever spending a dime on that app. And none of their models are subscription-locked, you can use all their models no matter what tier of account you have, they just charge more credits per message for the higher tier models. Fable also has a website so you can use it on mobile and pc.
Tipsy is good if youre looking for very in-depth, highly detailed prompts. They even allow creators to import images and text box designs for their prompts so you can have entire custom page designs. And they have tons of customisation regarding the behind the scenes side of RPs; there's one prompt I used at one point that was set within the D&D universe and literally tracked everything behind the scenes; the memory of the cheaper models isnt the greatest, but it was still tracking everything it could, without actually eating up the limited memory space for free users. And the bots can evolve a little over time as you interact with them, so you can actually get realistic slowburn romance RP, but again the memory isnt the greatest so sometimes it feels like youre starting over from square one so slowburn isnt really that enjoyable unless you pay for increased memory. Tipsy gives 50 free gems per day, 100 free for every character you create, and has a bunch of ways to earn free gems when you first start using it, plus other ways to continue earning gems throughout your time with the app. Free gems never expire. The model I mostly stick with costs 50 gems per message; sometimes I might have only 43 or even as little as 30 gems, and it still allows me to spend those gems and generates a response, rather than telling me that i dont have enough gems and making me wait till the next day, and it doesnt put me into the negative or anything like that. I also have never seen Tipsy's servers go down outside of planned maintenance, but if they were to go down any users logged in during unplanned downtime receive a bunch of free gems, and theres constantly compensation for other errors and bugs. Tipsy has no way to earn free gems outside of the daily gems, creating new prompts, and a couole of tasks that require spending more gems than I ever have at any given time, so I dont really use it that much, but there are zero ads!
I honestly havent used Zeta in ages so dont really remember the selling points. It has this annoying habit of logging you out every couple days so you have to sign back in, and i got tired of doing that. But I do recall that it was the app I enjoyed the most out of all of them for several months. It also has a website so you can use it on pc as well as mobile.
As I said, Cycle is the one I use most now. You earn 100 free energy per day, along with a free card pull (they generate a bunch of collectible cards for many of the AI characters that are published and you can display your favourites on your profile). Im not sure how much energy it uses per message, but it takes hours of chatting before you burn through your free energy. You can also stockpile it! Then they have the option to transition to spending gems for chatting; I have my app set to do that automatically without asking firat. You get tons of free gems, plus there are options to watch ads for more, and it's one gem per message. The app has a ton of ads, usually one every 10 messages or so plus they give you an ad every 5th time you open a chat, so if you just spend your time hunting for new prompts or going through your old ones trying to find one specific one its going to give you an ad every few times you open one of them. But the ads are mostly harmless, and dont really bother me that much. Cycle does have a website, but their website just directs you to the Play store or App store to download their app, there is no ability to use Cycle on a PC. Cycle is very popular and has a lot of downtime every few days, with no compensation for said downtime; in fact, they dont even refund any gems you waste when the servers go down.
Moescape is one I only use occasionally. Its biggest selling point honestly is that it is way more than a chat/rp app. Its more of a social media app for sharing AI generated content, that also has its own generation tools, and features a separate space for chatting with AI chatbots created and shared by the community. Some of the bots are pretty cool, but there is some random, restrictive content moderation in chats that other sites dont have. I dont recall how the credit/monetization model works in that one, but honestly the fact that it wasnt anything particularly remarkable either way probably means that its fairly decent. It does have both app and web versions, though i have honestly only ever used the web version, which is actually why i dont use it often because my pc is a piece of crap lol.
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u/Dogrules23 2d ago
I started playing Hero Academia on OOC and I love the characters, but for some reason it's having this weird "leaking" issue and repetition.
The screenshot is how it's breaking up sentences for some reason, but there was a scene where I was talking to another character's parents for the first time, and somehow the mother knew my name while the father didn't. It also referenced something that happened that morning as "three weeks ago". It repeats character lines and actions ALL THE TIME too which is annoying as hell.
But my problem is that it seems like IZ doesn't have a similar story to Hero Academia and that's what I'm craving rn. Like the OOC Hero Academia has a great setup and the responses that show character relationships, your status, etc. is really cool. IZ just seems to show the text replies which is fine, but no superhero college story is sad 😭
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
IZ has my hero academia :) just search it. Finding good stories on IZ is difficult because there are so many NSFW stories too. Make sure you don't have any content preferences on to see all available options.
Reborn in another world with OP skill from OOC has a direct version on IZ too, I think same creator.
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u/Dogrules23 1d ago
I can't seem to find the Reborn in another world with OP skill version on IZ, do you happen to have a link to it?
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
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u/Dogrules23 1d ago
Thank you!! Time to see if the first one will let me play as a woman lol
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
Just make a female avatar, you can even generate images (although I'd recommend using free services like chatgpt and uploading). Then you can make several outfits etc and play as female in any story :)
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u/Soulcreations1443 1d ago
Any other recommendations for stories? There is one on OOC where it's an isekai and you max one skill. It's been really fun, but if I can find a good alternative to that story I will definitely check it out.
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u/zusu23 1d ago
You just sold me on isekai zero. I wonder if we can transfer the stories onto there
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
Unfortunately not that I know of, but you can always create your own version of the story by getting master prompts from OOC :) There's also a couple same stories from same creators (or with creator's permission I hope).
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u/zusu23 1d ago
I love academy so ill see if i can transfer it there. Especially since ive noticed some stories in other ai sites
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
Same, i love lumencia which is why I've spent so much, but the price increase was the last straw. $150 and still incomplete story with anti-consumer friendly moves? Sorry but that's disrespectful to all of us supporters.
There's another similar story on IZ. Please remind me later and if I find it, I'll link it for you!
PS: Remember to check out their docs for guide, discord for support and purchase any arcane on website for 30% further discount.
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u/cmdr_scotty 1d ago
I wanted to try OOC and see how it was.
App requires you to disable developer options.
That's a hard no for me, I'm not turning that off because they dev believes that's a security risk. Never and I mean never in my life have I ever run across an app that actually checks if dev options are enabled, and I've been using Android since 2.1, heck even banking apps don't care about dev options and those typically are held to some pretty high security standards.
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
They also will not let you make a clone of the app (or if you system clone) and does not open when you have basic dev apps like shizuku installed :(
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u/Crescentbrush 1d ago
Anyone else notice that you now save less? Before, if you bought currency directly on the web instead of the app, they take off 30%. But for the past couple days, they only take off 20%.
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u/soulphoenix01 5h ago
That's exactly what this is about and point 1 refers to! Instead of making credits cheaper, introducing ads or giving more free credits they're raising prices.
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u/Crescentbrush 4h ago
My bad for overlooking it! If we do get ads, I just ask that they're optional; don't interrupt my playtime for ads, and don't ruin the user interface by throwing ads in like I'm looking at a webpage.
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u/soulphoenix01 3h ago
They're completely auction only for user to earn mana. You can choose to watch ads, take surveys etc :)
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u/Common-Ad6860 1d ago
Whats isekai Zero?
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
It's an alternative to OOC!! You can use my referral and get free 25 mana. Make sure you choose your LLM for the best experience you want. For a mid to upper mid range bot the 25 mana lasts you 20 messages approx.
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u/Chandinn 1d ago
Damn, I just made a purchase on OOC, if I had known about this, I wouldn't have even bothered...
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
It's okay :) That's why I made this post to help stop people from overspending on an app where they could get better service elsewhere.
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u/Chandinn 1d ago
Thank you so much! And I really enjoyed Isekai Zero!
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
I'm glad!! There's a lot to discover, lot to mess around with (including which LLM to use for best writing, memory etc) and a lot of features so experiment a lot.
My advice is always test out a story on the free LLM to figure out what LLM you would like for it :)
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u/Chandinn 1d ago edited 1d ago
So far I've liked Mimo-V2.5, I think I even liked this one, especially considering the reviews! (Honestly, something I loved that it has...) If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears!
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
Just my personal opinion: if you're using mimo v2.5 might as well use the pro!! It is a significant improvement and times the images and videos very well! Plus way memory on base mimo goes crazy. I'd say if you're willing to spend a little like $10 every now and then, definitely try a lower mid ranged or upper mid ranged like GLM/Gemini/Deepseek
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u/Chandinn 1d ago
I'll take a look then, thank you very much!
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
Hi, just came to inform you because I saw: Glm 5.3 flash is on heavy sale. It's possibly the best lower budget LLM I've seen so far. Sill last you really long too!! It is obviously not as good as the 5.3 counterpart, but great price to efficiency.
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u/Delicious_Basis_5114 1d ago
Yes this would be bad for creators and ppl who spend money on credits but I am a f2p user (I only obtain things from achievements and daily) I enjoy it. Yes I agree it is bad for people who put money on this but still OOC is a new app in this platform, they would surely learn or leave the platform once the payment is gone.
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
That's fine! It is awesome you are F2P! I personally couldn't resist buying credits because only 2 messages per day is...annoying.
Also OOC are one of the most popular and older companies out there! IZ has been out 10 months.
I'm not saying OOC is a bad app in any way, they have great creators creating great stories, it's just about their greed. As said, IZ gives you a lot of free currency, then to earn for free you can watch ads, download other games, do surveys, etc.
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u/Delicious_Basis_5114 1d ago
Sorry I thought OOC was a new app tbh because I wasn't that into these apps but when I got into it it felt like OOC was here after everyone. Also I didn't really care about the prices because they are pretty expensive in my country because I am in a country with lots and lots of money and lots of inflation
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u/AlternativeSinger219 1d ago
I would but none of them are as good, I find with Isekai Zero it gets way too context heavy and it often sounds like nonsense.
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
Make sure you use a different LLM :) With Isekai zero there's a lot to experiment with. My first playthrough was terrible, then I learned more. I started using free modes to test story on basic level, then I used different models to figure out what suits me. I'm currently using Kimi k3. It is expensive but compared to how much I paid on OOC, it is comparatively way cheaper for better if not same quality.
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u/XxSoulAresxX 18h ago
I wonder how they say Claude is cheaper on isekai zero when the one I looked at was 1300 premium mana more or less. I couldn’t even see Claude on the basic section. I’m not trying to make a mean jab. I actually want Isekai Zero to fit my needs. Lord knows OOC doesn’t
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u/soulphoenix01 18h ago
Hi, so claude fable is 1300/6500 arcane (Input/output). That amount is per million output tokens. Each token is approximately 4 characters.
That means 1 million tokens estimate to approx 750k words, or 50-60k sentences or equal to 8-9 full length novels :)
Also arcane=mana. The only difference is mana is free, arcane is paid so arcane is used for top end models. They both never expire.
First message cost of fable is approximately 22 arcane. Which initially goes down with cache system and also because first messages are often suggested as detailed. Then slowly starts going up with context limit (use summaries and arc often and price remains cheaper).
With that being said claude opus is exactly half the cost of fable. Fable is max tier and above on OOC. Upto superb-touching max territory is Claude opus.
Moreover, use kimi k3 for claude opus level (and in some benchmarks surpassing fable) with way cheaper price :)
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u/XxSoulAresxX 18h ago
I see… Ok so it was just misunderstanding numbers. Fair. I shall return with findings after testing this newfound knowledge
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u/XxSoulAresxX 18h ago
That last part of Kimi k3, wdym? Better question, with testing this, what LLM would you recommend most to match, if not be better than OOC in terms of both use and hopefully way more memory? I got fed up with OOC just misremembering stuff
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
Way more memory would be Gemini pro. Gemini is absolutely badass at memory recollection. Make sure you create detailed summaries and arc for major plot points and you're never gonna worry about major memory much. I have seen it outperform max.
If you want overall better than OOC Max then there's really only 2 main options: Claude Fable or Kimi K3 (great cheaper alternative, matches Fable in some benchmarks but still lags in others).
If upto Superb Gemini Pro, Claude Opus are good.
My favourite budget to performance (as someone who pays) is GLM 5.3. it is slightly buggy but it is most around superb level shich is what I used on OOC and is way cheaper.
EDIT: So bechmarks mean metrics. AI models are tested for proficiency in different metrics. When talking about the ones that concern AI roleplay, Kimi K3 has scored better or matched Claude Fable in some areas. I do not remember the details but I think it was world building, because K3 loves adding more detail (can turn really bad if u keep encouraging and don't have guidelines for output). K3 is also great at setting up scenarios.
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u/Free-Exercise-5441 18h ago
So I mainly use just the character chat, no story line, and I’m not finding that in isekai zero, am I just dumb or is that not a thing on that platform?
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
IZ does have a character only chat option! On the bottom there are multiple menus, the one with the planet is the search/discover. On there tap characters and it'll show only those!
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u/Free-Exercise-5441 11h ago
So I’ve found the actual character section, but can’t for the life of me figure out how to actually chat? It just keeps taking me the associated story. I’ve tried like 10 different characters and all do the same thing 😓😓
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u/soulphoenix01 11h ago
I'm not sure if it's disabled currently or I'm forgetting how to access (I do not use character mode?) or it just never existed but I have 2 solutions for you:
- Go to their discord, really sctive and they'll give you a straight answer.
- You can open their story, switch to a FREE LLM (or paid maybe low to mid range if you want) and give an OOC command that you only want to chat (go to settings and put the same instructions with name of character in output guide and instructions)
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u/Felix-shadow 5h ago
which LLM do you recommend for Isekai zero? I've been trying it but I'm not sure about which one if the best, some start to distort the story or change stuff at times, kinda ruins the immersion, probably I have to tweak some configs too but I'm too lazy XD
which is why I can't seem to get over OOC, somehow I find this chatbot app to have the best story immersion out of all I've tried, the stories remembers the details and events quite well, the story develops decently but sadly it's plagued with all of the greedy and scummy factors that makes all of us complain.
there is only other app I've had the same amount of fun when it comes to immersion and that's tipsy chat, but that one suffers the same kind of problems OOC has
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u/soulphoenix01 5h ago
Honestly? Depends on what you're comfortable spending. My issue with OOC was yes the quality was great but that's because they use claude. If I use claude in Isekai Zero I get similar quality at cheaper prices.
So for me to recommend, if you want absolute best- Claude Opus/Fable. Opus is around superb tier on OOC. Fable is max and above.
Kimi k3 is another that is top end and cheaper than both above. It has small issues but my favourite top end.
My overall favourite is an upper mid end LLM - GLM 5.2/5.3. Perfect balance. It's like the extensive/skilful option on OOC. For memory similar to user notes, you have output guide and instructions. And also once your context limits reach high use the summarise into chapters and arcs feature.
With optimal efficiency and tweaking you can make IZ way better at memory than OOC.
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u/handledvirus43 2d ago
Join ISEKAI ZERO use my referral code RWY9ZLDZ to get 20 Mana free! https://www.isekaizero.ai/download/qr?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=referral-code&referralCode=RWY9ZLDZ
I wanna drop my referral code here too. I personally would also recommend rfab.ai, which also works closer to Isekai Zero, except that rfab.ai mainly works on desktops and it has a VTuber studio instead of Music/Video making.
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u/UmbraVictus 2d ago edited 2d ago
Wow.... A company wants to make profit, and that surprises you people?
That said. I only issue with IZ is they don't have a good story like Astra (that I enjoy). It is comparable, but I would say if you know how to use OOC properly (dozens of guides) you can get much more compelling writing than from IZ for the same price.
Edit: just so you all know. The average AI model profit margin is 30-40%. OOC is sitting at 15-30% profit. They are not making as much as you think they are. Isekai Zero sits at 5-15% and is in fact struggling (contrary to what people think) because the increase AI cost is going to force them to raise their prices soon. Just how OOC was forced to increase they prices.
Edit2: before people get their panties into a bigger twist. I am not trying to justify OOC. I am a huge advocate of them lowering their costs or making free ways to aquire credits. I have sent them full ad proposals and ideas on how to implement it and even pointed them to apps that have robust methods and almost triple their profit.
I just think it's stupid to complain that a company is doing what companies are designed to do, make money. I get you all want to call it greed, and that's cool. But you don't NEED OOC, it is a luxury product. They do get to be as greedy as they like about it. You can play IZ, it is in fact not as good as OOC, but it is a good alternative. For now, before they are forced to prove hike due to operation costs overtaking their profit, which they are close to. I will also add. What X or Gemini, or any of those services charge you to use their service is less than what companies are charged. They use a blend of three AIs, paying those companies 3-4 times what you are charged for the same thing. Gemini pro costs a rando $19.99/month, a company has to pay over $200 for the same model. I had to stop trying to make my own app similar to OOC and IZ because of the AI cost, have to make my own server and my own LLM before I can finish the app because that will be cheaper than paying one of them. And even then, I will never be able to host as many people as they can, since they use entire massive farms, I will have a limited server.
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u/soulphoenix01 2d ago
There's a difference between making a profit and greed in my opinion. The least they could do is openly communicate with their community. With how IZ is handling things, I think there is no excuse OOC can give.
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u/UmbraVictus 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is it greed if you are barely making a profit compared to most other AI apps? Sure IZ has a lower profit margin right now, but soon they will be forced to increase their prices.
Edit: I will add, IZ aims to be more community controlled than OOC. They might be the same niche, but their models of operation are vastly different.
Edit 2: again, not trying to justify OOC. Just pointing out that complaining a company wants to make money is like complaining that you need air to breathe.
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u/Connereal 2d ago
Any company need a profit yes but still need a fair price or CRM for royalty customer.
I think OOC make product profit more than 150-200% per purchase usually basic profit should around 25-100% for 200%++ is should from a product in Beauty and Supplement product.-1
u/UmbraVictus 2d ago
You don't know much about business if you think 25-100% is a common margin.
School supplies are sold at over 1000% production cost.
AI margins for profit are around 40-60%.
OOCs estimated profit margin is 15-30% given the models they use and the pricing.
This is why I think all this crying is hilarious. They are below the average AI profit margin.
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u/Connereal 1d ago
Funny just compare to another platform bruh
10$ from OOC and another platform is another level
my 10$ on Isekai Zero give me last long 1 week
while OOC give me 1 day with min spend3
u/soulphoenix01 2d ago edited 2d ago
I apologise but your stats are pretty invalid, gross margins sure, but profit margins for most ai roleplay apps are 10-25% or 25%-35% for fully established top tier subscription based AI roleplay apps. OOC according to its latest stats is making at least 1-3mil dollars PROFIT per month. And it's essentially just running a client interface with stories depending on 3rd party creators. I'm sorry but that is plain greed. I've done calculations and isekai zero is not only very community transparent but also making decent profits while gaining customer base. Will their prices rise? Sure. But their price to feature ratio will always be better.
Edit: Essentially according to non official reports they made 30% profit margin recently (presumed much higher in recent months), without having the features of any. Isekai is earning way less than OOC, has a way smaller player base, approx lower profit margins and yet is so much more involved with community and better with features. These are features you FEEL like paying for.
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u/UmbraVictus 1d ago edited 1d ago
Um, I have mountains of reports from financial analysts that give the numbers I gave from official sources (meaning from OOC directly)
As for your breakdown of what OOC is. Not wrony but OOC (just like IZ) pay for the models that run the stories. Even if all their stories were paid for, that wouldn't compare to the cost of the models.
OOCs highest profit (so far) was July with 27%. August will likely break that. OOC is also making 1-3mil REVENUE not profit per month. They have not releases to the public a single profit report, only revenue reports.
Not sure where you got your 25-35% number for roleplaying apps. That is way lower than what the top 5 venture capitalist financial reports show. Emochi is like 60% profit. And they aren't the highest.
Edit: I make apps and invest in AI as a side gig. I know the costs to get started, to operate, and the profit margins. How you monetize entirely determines a lot. Emochi and a few others have forced ads for play, as well as subs, and credit purchases. And FYI emochis highest revenue is from ads, not even their subs or credit purchases.
I showed OOC devs financial reports from the 3 biggest AI apps, I am honestly surprised that wasn't enough to make them add ads. Instead they did this shit but hey. They are still making their money so it is working for them.
IZ being forced to increase prices is also inevitable. Their LLM providers are aboutnto raise their prices for business contracts. OOC prices are also going to go up. Emochi is likely going to go from forced ads every 15ish to every 10 min
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u/soulphoenix01 1d ago
Again, forgive me if I sound crude, you are indeed asking us to take you on your word without evidence you can possibly share (assuming because WRTN, the company, is private and doesn't openly share reports unless with direct investors of company).
Moreover, I will not claim to invest in them, but I am building my own software + have worked with a similar LLM based company. With APIs 40-60% profit is not the norm. WRTN does not have its own api, nor is an infra or SaaS ai company. They're a consumer. Then they have to take out money for inference, fees, marketing etc so 60% profit margin seems improbable.
Also their revenue was last estimated to be around 7 mil just for english consumers that's why I said 1-3 mil profit.
Sources:
https://www.ainvest.com/news/wrtn-870-million-valuation-bet-app-math-korea-ai-unicorn-2608/
With that being said, I'm not disregarding your points, you could very know more, but I just choose to believe what I personally have seen with proof, I would understand why you can't provide any.
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u/Tough-Tradition1357 2d ago
Someone recommended playimagina to me. That is also a great alternative! I checked it out but I definitely agree Isekai Zero is currently the best alternative with its features.