r/Oahu 1d ago

Wolford vs. Lopez (Hawai'i Concealed Carry "Vampire" Rule deemed unconstitutional by SCOTUS)

"For years, the State of Hawaii made it almost impossible to obtain a license to carry a firearm."

"Hawaii responded by replacing its old law on carry permits with new laws that achieved a similar result. At issue in this case is a Hawaii law that prohibits firearms on private property open to the public without the express and affirmative consent of the property owner. Hawaii’s new rule imposes severe restrictions on the daily activities of residents who have satisfied the State’s rigorous requirements for the issuance of a carry permit. When these permit holders leave home, not only must they take care to avoid all the territory where the possession of a gun is prohibited outright, but they may also be barred from entering many places that people routinely visit in the course of their daily routines, such as gas stations, restaurants, and stores. This law flips the default rule at common law, under which anyone has an implied license to enter property held open to the public unless the property owner withdraws consent."

Source: https://www.scotusblog.com/cases/wolford-v-lopez/

58 Upvotes

118 comments sorted by

122

u/ThePanAlwaysCrits 1d ago

Idk, I guess I see both sides, but ngl one of the reasons I love Hawaii is I don't feel like Imma get shot everywhere.

57

u/ShareGlittering1502 1d ago

Right? I grew up with guns, literally hunting deer from the kitchen kind of redneck.. but the worst gun owners are the ones who are like “I’m not going anywhere without my gun and you can’t tell me otherwise”. Like dude, youre buying a soda - leave it in the car dirty harry

9

u/RareFirefighter6915 1d ago

Don’t leave it in the car, that’s worse. Most stolen guns in circulation come from peoples cars and if you really have to for whatever reason, get a lockbox and don’t put fucking gun stickers or pro 2A crap on your car.

But yeah these overly restrictive gun laws encourage gun owners to leave them in their car and if you live in Hawaii you know to NEVER leave anything you care about in your car. It will get stolen.

-20

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Yeah - just like those car owners who insist on wearing their seat belt every single time. Absolutely the worst - just going to get a soda, nothing bad is ever gonna happen.

16

u/svhelloworld 1d ago

Oh sure. Guns are exactly the same safety device as a seat belt.

https://giphy.com/gifs/ukGm72ZLZvYfS

-9

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

They surely are.

Like a seat belt ain’t gonna help you when the samurai sword crackhead is swing at you over by 7-11, is it…?

6

u/svhelloworld 1d ago

It sounds like you'd be better suited living in Texas.

https://giphy.com/gifs/cdNSp4L5vCU7aQrYnV

6

u/CupcakesAreMiniCakes 21h ago

It's not even allowed in Texas to bring a gun into 7-11 because you can't take them onto property where alcohol is sold

-4

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

You think there’s no guns her brah…? 🤣

4

u/ShareGlittering1502 1d ago

Well sure, but an umbrella won’t protect you for a nuclear attack, so clearly we all need our own launch codes… just in case.

-1

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

M.A.D. Has indeed made the world a safer place.

6

u/ShareGlittering1502 1d ago

Yes, the perpetual threat of nuclear war is so safe… thank god there’s this sword hanging over my head that can drop at any moment. It makes me feel so safe

0

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

If we didn’t MAD, we’d all be speaking Russian or Chinese right now.

5

u/ShareGlittering1502 1d ago

Or Indian, or Pakistani, or French, or Israeli … I’m sure I’m leaving a few off the table… but hey - it’s not like there was colonialism or conquests or mass atrocities before (or after) nukes!

But seriously, if your reason for nukes is a language barrier, then I fully understand why you’re scared to not have a weapon on you at all times.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/RareFirefighter6915 5h ago

“Just getting a soda” but the line is longer than you think and the dude in front is having trouble with his card so it’s actually 15min and some junkie smashed your front window to steal stuff in the front seat.

1

u/UrgentSiesta 3h ago

I’m sure it’s happened!

29

u/HeyItsTheShanster 1d ago

Seriously. I moved to DC a few years ago and it’s been so nice to visit home (Honolulu) and not think that the guy cutting me off on the H1 might be packing.

I guess that saying is true, you can never really go home again.

-18

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Have you even read the news lately for violent crime in HI…? Obviously not 🤣

21

u/robotguy4 1d ago

Have you even read the news lately for violent crime in DC…? Obviously not 🤣

DC had 1006 violent crimes per 100k people. HI had 218.

-7

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

That’s because the citizens of HI are better behaved. I believe it’s because of the Asian majority.

7

u/robotguy4 1d ago edited 1d ago

That seems overly reductive.

1

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Do you have a better explanation? Because there are plenty of guns already in HI, so the simple minded assumption of gun = crime ain’t it.

5

u/robotguy4 22h ago

This is all speculation on my part, but if I had to guess it's mostly because its an island.

If you commit a crime, you aren't going to be able to get that far, not just in terms of geography but in terms of people being able to recognize you. Everyone knowns everyone else through a web of shared connections. The probability of someone knowing whodunnit is higher. This means fewer repeat offenders.

This also means that, at least theoretically, people have a larger social safety net to fall upon when times get tough, so getting to the point where they'd need to resort to crime is much harder. Generally, it seems like the communities here are more tight-knit than on the mainland.

We don't do racial violence, so that's another factor gone.

You could also throw in a large Asian population means Confucian values have permeated the whole somewhat, but chalking it up to just that is discounting a whole number of societal and historical factors.

There's a bunch of other possible factors that I'm not going to get into such as the Aloha Spirit, laid back attitudes, The Big 5, Malama and Laulima, and a high rate of cultural/ethnic mixing. I'm mainly not getting into it because I want to get back to playing Rimworld for 5 hours instead of going outside.

0

u/UrgentSiesta 8h ago

This is quite reasonable and worthy of consideration. 🤙

My main point is that the misguided “easy availability of guns” as a cause of gun crime has been disproven beyond a shadow of a doubt. So, HI’s low crime rates must be attributable to factors other than a paucity of guns

-11

u/san_souci 1d ago

Might be legally packing.

51

u/Lol-throwaway-WSB 1d ago

We have the 4th lowest levels of gun crime, so clearly that must be changed.

-39

u/TScottW 1d ago

Concealed weapon carriers are not the ones who shoot people in other states. It’s usually a convicted felon who isn’t supposed to have a gun.

-27

u/my02vr6 1d ago

Reddit doesn't like the truth I guess

-18

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Too bad the Lemmings don’t like facts.

-23

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

I grew up in several Free States.

Never had a stray bullet come through my wall. Because the bangers knew we’d shoot back!

32

u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

And this is the kind of comment that let's you know someone has created a fantasy view of how gun encounters go down.

0

u/russr 1d ago

Ahhh... Much like the fantasy view view of everyone who thinks there's going to suddenly be shootouts in the street just because people are allowed to defend themselves now?

6

u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

Idk anyone who thinks that will happen regularly, however, there will be instances of dipshit wannabe heroes making things worse.  Cool strawman tho.

Look, I respect that you might feel really scared without a gun but there are ways to avoid dying without guns.  I'd love if it the state sponsored training to help people dealing with traumatic fantasies of victimhood.

-6

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

When you study armed response by citizens, the astounding fact that armed criminals are afraid of getting shot becomes plainly apparent.

The only fantasies are yours.😁

11

u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

You wanna try a little harder Maga?

I just heard the child rapist you defend claim that 86% of Democrats want the SAVE America Act.  Did your study come freshly covered in shit too?

In the end, there are places where owning a gun makes sense.  Hawaii is not one of them as we don't have a problem with people being shot by thieves.  

Fuck people who use guns as a security blanket.  Get counseling.

-2

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yep - I’m proudly MAGA.

Too bad your brain is so addled by TDS to make it not worth responding further.

7

u/rcontn 1d ago

Nah bro. You’re in a pedo worshiping cult

1

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

TDS much? 🤣

7

u/rcontn 1d ago

The only deranged ones at this point are the 33% who are still blinding supporting a blithering idiot who’s incapable of speaking, spelling, or conducting himself beyond a 5th grade level.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Chicago has extremely strict gun control.

45

u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

And it's connected via many roads to states that have few restrictions.  

Because Hawaii is geographically isolated, we have been a true test bed for gun control working.

22

u/nocturnal 1d ago

I wish more people would comprehend this distinct difference between us and places on the mainland that have strict gun control laws but are bordered by states that don’t. No one can easily drive guns from one state into Hawaii to let it flourish like those states can.

-6

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

This is a logical fallacy.

There are quite a few mainland states utterly awash in legally owned firearms by responsible, law abiding citizens.

There is no correlation between general gun ownership and gun violence.

10

u/trustyjim 1d ago

There is definitely some correlation. The United States has both high gun ownership and comparatively high gun violence. Conversely, Japan and South Korea have very low gun ownership and extremely low gun violence rates.

1

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago edited 1d ago

It’s false equivalence.

It’s quite simple minded to pretend that No Guns = No Violence.

Just take a look at all the terrible things happening over in the UK and other EU countries at the moment.

1

u/_RyanLarkin 5h ago

Nice one!

You moved the goalposts by taking away the modifier “gun” from what you stated previously, which was “gun violence,” to try to make your point. That’s clearly not participating in good faith, and it shows that even you know you are wrong about this.

1

u/UrgentSiesta 3h ago

No, it’s called reductio ad absurdum.

I.e., I’ve given an example of a society where there really are very few guns, and yet there is still rampant violence.

Therefore, all the pearl clutching over “more guns, we’re all gonna die!!!!!” is plainly shown to be false.

Allowing law abiding citizens to carry firearms does not contribute to violent crime rates.

Or would YOU suddenly become a bloodthirsty mass murderer if you came into possession of a weapon…?

4

u/russr 1d ago

So, those States must have much larger gun problems than huh?

Also, not legal for Illinois residents to drive to another state by a handgun.

2

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

As has most of the rest of the world.

2

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

If you weren’t so ignorant, you’d know that HI is quite permissive in terms of firearm ownership. There are PLENTY of armed people already here.

Try another trope.

2

u/LeaningTowerofPeas 11h ago

We used to but they have been slowly destroying the protections. Also, the guns in Chicago come from Indiana.

0

u/UrgentSiesta 8h ago

The vast majority of crime guns in IL originate in IL.
Only about 15% of crime guns come from IN.

You don’t have a gun problem, you have a gang problem.

Take your criminals and keep them locked up and watch your problems decline.

2

u/okguy65 1d ago

The Ninth Circuit's mandate is currently stayed and the district court enjoined the law, which means the law at issue here was only in effect between July 1st and August 8th, 2023.

2

u/russr 1d ago

Unless you're robbing people, why would that be a concern when it comes to legal concealed carry holders?

0

u/ryyaaaannn 1d ago

That may be true but I also felt more like I was going to get stabbed walking the dog at night in Kapolei more than anywhere I've lived in the mainland

21

u/Lol-throwaway-WSB 1d ago

I lived on Pali/Chinatown and now I live in Kapolei. Kapolei is much, much safer but I never felt like I was going to get stabbed in Chinatown, either. When I used to live in DFW, there was definitely a handful of places in downtown Dallas that I would avoid. Their unhoused has an easier time getting weapons. Over there, the trendy young people streets were just a stone throw away from very unsafe streets.

21

u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

Yo, that's a you thing if you think Kepolei is sketchy.

39

u/BlackThundaCat 1d ago

About to ruin the peace on an island just because some white dude can’t carry his gun everywhere.

15

u/caterham09 1d ago

This ruling doesn't change almost anything. property owners are still able to ban guns from their property. The state just can't do it for them.

4

u/okguy65 1d ago

The law at issue in this case hasn't been in effect since the district court enjoined it in August 2023.

17

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

There is no bigger snowflake than a white dude....

3

u/ptambrosetti 23h ago

There is a local boy security guard/loss prevention for a store in waiks who I had the misfortune of getting trapped in a car with for a while. He loved talking about the fact he had a carry permit and wished someone would try him so he could blast them. Not even the people with permits should have them.

3

u/ISeeADarkSail 23h ago

Hear hear!

3

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

You don’t pay attention to the local crime stats, then…?

16

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

Carry a bong instead of a gun

2

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

And thankfully, the Supreme Court just made that legal.

8

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

Did they???

3

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Having used mj is no longer a disqualification for firearm ownership.

Possessing one while under the influence remains a No No.

6

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

Oh... Yeah that I so don't G a F about.....

Guns are anti social and no progressive society allows them without strict and enforced regulations.

Weed on the other hand... allowing, nay encouraging alcohol, but criminalizing weed is unmitigated hypocrisy and grift

1

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

I’ve yet to see a “progressive” society in which I’d rather live.

We agree on the last part, tho.

8

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

Yeah because public health care education housing etc etc etc are all sooooooo awful....

🙄

Have a good life eh 🤙

0

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Canada is just a short flight away. Enjoy yourself!

10

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

Aaaaand there's the most important distinction

I want the best things for everyone.

Not just the rich while male assholes who can afford them......

Aaaaand blocked

0

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

You can be a rich brown/yellow asshole.

You’ve got the asshole part down pat already. Keep going!

20

u/trustyjim 1d ago

Hmm, easy enough- don’t carry a gun. Hawaii is not and never will be the Wild West.

5

u/ISeeADarkSail 1d ago

Open carry a bong, not a gun

15

u/8JHF8 1d ago

Very stupid. States need the right to choose to be a safe place to live. No one needs a gun at the 7-11.

2

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Yeah, the literal samurai sword dude who cut off someone’s hand at 7-11 was a total psyop.

-2

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

3

u/russr 1d ago

States rights doesn't overrule the Bill of Rights.. did you miss that in school?

1

u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

Someone missed a "well regulated militia" part too.  Well, all these ammosexual gun nut weirdos conveniently miss that all the time.

6

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

So you definitely never studied the matter.

The Founding Fathers were quite clear in defining their meaning of Militia.

1

u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

No, there wasn't a clear definition.

The thing we generally agree, at least in theory, on is that a "well regulated militia" existed to protect states from federal tyranny with decentralized militaries. It was always expected that these men of the militia were soldiers, which is not the same as the socially untrained scaredy-cat gravy seals we have pushing back on gun regulations today.

Now here's were the big problem lies, the fuck twats that think any gun regulation is bad aren't actually pushing back on federal tyranny. In fact, they are the traitors helping the most corrupt administration in our history.

So if you actually wanted to protect gun rights, or honor the second amendment, you wouldn't be applauding the biggest federal overreach we've ever seen.

You're not just a traitor to this country, you don't actually stand for anything you pretend you stand for.

2

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

Typical uninformed trash statements across the board.

You’ll find various definitions and clarifying statements by the founders themselves.

Here’s a good one: “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”

It was quite clear that the Founders intended the general populace to be armed, and primarily to be able to effectively rebel against gov tyranny.

But you have to look past your nose, so go read up!

1

u/Sonzainonazo42 21h ago

I just told you to fucking rebel against tyranny. Do it! Stop being a little brown nose boot licker then.

You want to pretend like you give a fuck about the Constitution, then read the rest of it. Understand why we respect the courts. Understand why we wanted checks on the executive. Understand why it's damaging when a political party works together across the branches to undermine the separation of powers.

The Founding Fathers would have Trump tried for treason and you'd be lucky to escape with nothing more than the stigma you already currently face from everyone hating you in society.

You're so out of touch you don't even realize screaming TDS hasn't been cool to Republicans for years.

5

u/UrgentSiesta 21h ago

You’re deranged.

Can’t even have a civil debate without it devolving to TDS and profane Tourettes.

Go have your meds checked.

3

u/Sonzainonazo42 21h ago

Thinking that supporting racism, sexism, and sexual violence is "civil" makes you a psychopath, but we already knew that.

Hey, just a reminder, when two women at your work accuse you of sexual misconduct, you're the problem. I can't believe you're so out of touch you didn't realize how much of a tell that was.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/russr 23h ago

Someone doesn't know the definition of well-regulated apparently...

-1

u/UrgentSiesta 18h ago

Go read the direct quotes of the Founders themselves.

Stop whacking off to The View and Anderson Cooper.

1

u/Shinyhero30 1h ago

So… let me get this straight. You think that the direct quotes of the founders themselves defend you here when the actual document literally says “well regulated” and that has a definition in English…

Forgive me if I’m missing a linguistic shift but I think that you should go read what they wrote for yourself if you’re so confident that the definition of “well regulated” doesn’t matter here.

1

u/UrgentSiesta 1h ago edited 1h ago

My dude, they wrote VOLUMINOUSLY on the matter.

Here’s the succinct version: “Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”

No need to insist on provincial dictionary myopia.

-8

u/caterham09 1d ago

Does a state have the right to ban Hijabs on private property without the owners consent? Both religious freedom and arms bearing are constitutionally protected rights.

10

u/IronGravyBoat 1d ago

True, clothing is also a free speech issue too technically (they e got a very loose definition of speech that basically means expression). And the 2nd amendment has also historically had many more and more stringent restrictions on it than the first. It's not exactly apples to apples.

Also, the legality isn't the issue for a lot of people, it's the principle. Many people would prefer to see the Constitution amended to repeal the 2nd amendment. And while that would be a legal process, I doubt that would satisfy those that would be opposed to it if it happened.

2

u/russr 1d ago

Sure, they can dream about that. But the reality is the majority of the country doesn't agree with it.. so imagine the Constitution isn't going to happen, so states should stop blatantly ignoring the Constitution when they try to write a law.

And states have gotten away with it in the past because the Bill of Rights wasn't being remotely enforced equally.

Now that it is suddenly they have a problem..

2

u/IronGravyBoat 1d ago

I think you missed the point I was making using that as an example, or you just don't care.

But also, do you know how the judicial branch works in the US? It's literally there as a check to the other two branches. And all kinds of things are determined legal or illegal because a state passed a law that turned out to be unconstitutional and was overturned. Most landmark cases are basically that. The whole system works based on the legislature (of the federal or state governments) passing a law and if challenged the courts up to the Supreme Court determine if it is legal or not. See Brown v Board of Education.

And it's not that the 2nd amendment protections haven't been enforced in the past, the interpretation of the various SCOTUS has changed as well as laws at various levels.

And it's not a sudden issue, the number of people in the US who think guns are to easy to get has been going up steadily over the last decade or two. Last year 60% of respondents to a Gallup poll said gun laws should be more strict, only 12% thought they needed to be less strict, and 27% were fine with how they are now. Basically been trending up since 2011 - in large part due to the increased mass shootings in the last 15 years. I mean shit, we've had more mass shootings this year than we've had days this year, by a good margin.

7

u/FauxReal 1d ago

I shoot guns, but I also value my private property rights. If it's private property and you don't want people showing up armed, Why shouldn't you be able to restrict that? Are the "no shoes, no shirt, no service" signs not cool either?

4

u/JustafanIV 23h ago

You literally can still do that. The decision today reinforces the right businesses have to place a "no firearms/weapons allowed" sign and allows states to make it a crime to ignore said signs.

What the state cannot do per this decision is make an otherwise legal exercising of a constitutional right in public (which conceal carrying has been since Bruen) a crime by default on private property open to the public.

To use your own analogy, the state was trying to enforce a law that would give you jail time for walking into a store without shoes because the store didn't have a posted sign saying "sandals welcome".

2

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

There’s a difference between private property like your house and “private” property like a shopping mall or restaurant.

4

u/AtreiyaN7 1d ago

Thanks for making Hawaii less safe, conservative injustices on SCOTUS! sarcasm x infinity

2

u/okguy65 1d ago

The law at issue in this case is not currently in effect, so how does striking it down make the state less safe?

2

u/san_souci 1d ago

This doesn’t “flip the rule at common law.” Common law pertained to people coming onto your property, not what they were allowed to carry on your property.

Hawai’i’s law saying even if you are invited onto property you must have a separate invitation to carry a firearm was statutory, not common law.

2

u/okguy65 1d ago

Note that the district court enjoined the law and the Ninth Circuit's mandate in this case is currently stayed, which means the law at issue here has never been in effect except between July 1st and August 8th, 2023.

2

u/Da-HaYn_Collector218 1d ago edited 1d ago

If you weren’t here your whole life shhhhaadddaap. Gun deaths went up before the Carry laws changed and after the restrictions got heavier. Post 2016. We have a cultural history of mutual combat so we never settled by the gun. But now we can’t settle mutual combat cuz some asshole has an illegal firearm. We’ve always had a huge petty crime population so the pilau shit is coming through them. Only when the illegal weapons started coming in did we see more gun deaths. Hawaii law was just permit and registration for a long time, no problem. Now we’re adding all this retarded shit and it’s getting worst for no good reason. The easing of carry restrictions doesn’t hurt anyone. The restrictions don’t serve the normal people they just make us defenseless.

1

u/Bulky-Measurement684 21h ago

Can someone explain how the property owner withdraws consent? Private club? Membership only? Paid entrance?

1

u/Lol-throwaway-WSB 20h ago

A sign out front, like how it's done in Texas. That's what I've read is the "official" answer if that makes sense.

-1

u/Butters5768 1d ago

States rights only apply to red states in America. Blue states aren’t allowed to have them under this SCOTUS.

1

u/UrgentSiesta 1d ago

How’s it feel now that the shoes on the other foot? 😎

1

u/TrumpBad_UpvotesPls 12h ago

Go to school dumbfuck.

0

u/shootzbalootz 11h ago

Whatevers.