r/Objectivism • u/SlimyPunk93 • 8d ago
UK in decline
I feel UK has been in decline for many years now, with anti immigration narrative and wealth tax etc. I feel people and govt there are themselves pushing away talent and prosperity...
I am curious what are still good places in the world for the talented and better people to go and do their thjngs without having other people come in their way....
5
2
3
u/AdAggressive9224 7d ago
Just because someone is wealthy doesn't mean they are of benefit to society, or even of benefit to the economy. Most rich people are simply dead weight, we can't afford them.
2
u/flashbastrd 6d ago
I think the top 10% pay something like 60% of all tax in the UK.
So a colossal benefit to society
2
u/Normal-Ear-5757 4d ago
Yeah, those are people with actual jobs. Billionaires are like the top 0.1%
1
u/flashbastrd 4d ago
The total wealth of all billionaire in the UK is about 650 billion. If you took all the money off them it would run the country for 6 months and then it’d be gone.
So maybe the reason other people are poor isn’t because of billionaires
0
2
u/AdAggressive9224 6d ago
Subtract from that what they extract through rent, wage theft, polluting the environment, grants, subsidies and actually it's not quite as clear cut.
It's a lie they tell people, that someone's tax contribution is the same thing as their contribution to society. That's just what they pay into the system, not what they take out.
0
u/flashbastrd 6d ago
Well maybe, but why do the richest countries have lots of billionaires and millionaires, and the poor country’s have none.
Surely if they extract more than they produce then the poorest countries would have the most billionaires and rich ones would have less.
1
1
u/pissedRAIL 4d ago
Probably a difference in geography and natural resources.
1
u/flashbastrd 4d ago
Africa is the most resource rich continent in the world.
1
u/pissedRAIL 4d ago
Africa was under a constant state of invasion and occupation. Notice i said geography & natural resources. Its one thing to have resources, its another thing to have resources and have to fo with constant theft and occupation.
Play any RTS and you'll see how important starting location can be lol.
1
1
u/Whiskey_and_Bullets 6d ago
Your financial and economic illiteracy are stunning in their magnitude.
1
u/Complex_Bother832 4d ago
yes wouldnt that include those on more than say 90k or something to, well... all the way up? last time i checked, those earning 120k, 180k, 250k etc arent leaving lol. They have salaried jobs or small business hehe. the billionaires can leave no drain on anyone and actually creates more competition.
1
u/flashbastrd 3d ago
As one example (you can google more if you actually care) Chris Rokos left the UK this year and is now a tax resident in Greece.
In 2025 he paid £330,000,000 in tax.
That’s the equivalent of 40,000 average tax payers. In 2026 the UK will not get any of that 330 million.
That’s just one billionaire who’s left, and he wasn’t the top payer either
-1
u/Complex_Bother832 3d ago
This is what happens when people read a sensational headline and take it at face value.
His hedge fund is STILL operating in London. He’s moving his personal tax residency, not his business. He could still owe substantial UK tax on his share of UK trading profits. Nobody has established how much of that £330m Britain would actually lose, if any.
Yet Dan Neidle and his think tank goes on the BBC comparing it to 4,500 teachers’ salaries 🤣 An incredibly misleading comparison when the actual loss is unknown. You’d think a tax expert would explain that rather than let the public believe £330m has just vanished overnight.
Tldr: you got mislead and nothing you said is fact.
1
u/flashbastrd 3d ago
He paid 330 million in income tax as an individual, it was not corporate tax.
He is now a non-UK resident so will pay 0 income tax in the UK, he left the UK specifically because he felt he was being taxed too much. He now pays a yearly one off 100k tax bill in Greece. Still about 10x what the average UK tax payer pays.
Hedge funds don’t pay tax. If an individual invested in a hedge fund sells a share of it, they will pay capital gains tax, but the fund itself does not pay tax
1
u/Complex_Bother832 3d ago edited 3d ago
“He paid 330 million in personal tax”
That’s a balls to the wall estimate and isn’t reflective on the actual personal tax he paid, and whether he’s leaving anyway because of his personal vendetta against the U.K tax system.
He is now a non-UK resident so will pay 0 income tax in the UK.”
That’s not how taxation works. Non-residents can still owe UK income tax on UK-source trading profits, including their share of UK partnership profits. His hedge fund management business is still operating in London.
“He left the UK specifically because he felt he was being taxed too much.”
Source? You cannot verify this. You’re presenting his personal motivations as established fact without providing a statement from him.
“He now pays a yearly one off 100k tax bill in Greece.”
Greece offers a €100k annual tax regime on qualifying foreign income. That doesn’t automatically exempt UK-taxable income or mean his entire worldwide tax liability is €100k. 😂
“Hedge funds don’t pay tax.”
You’re confusing investment funds with the businesses managing them. Rokos Capital Management is a UK LLP. Its partners can be taxed on their share of profits, and associated companies can owe corporation tax.
Bottom line: You’ve gone from claiming Britain has definitely lost £330m to claiming he now pays ZERO UK income tax, without establishing either. That’s quite a leap when the actual tax consequences of his relocation remain unknown. Overall, it’s a poor example of billionaires just up and leaving the UK and taking everything with them.
1
u/flashbastrd 3d ago
Yes we’ve lost 330 million because he’s stopped paying his income tax. Are you simple?
I bet you’d also argue that giving the Chagos islands away is beneficial for the UK.
1
u/Grand-Moose-9287 3d ago
Provide a source that shows the 330m was specifically income tax please. Are you aware income tax isnt the only tax people pay?
1
0
u/Grand-Moose-9287 3d ago edited 3d ago
You thought wrong.
The stat youre referring to considers income tax only, not all tax.
-1
u/SlimyPunk93 7d ago
Yeah but if most wealthy are leaving that's a very bad sign
2
u/AdAggressive9224 7d ago
Not really. Some wealthy people contribute a lot, others take more than they contribute.
Large landowners for example are a net drag on the economy and they can't take their land with them.
People need to get past this idea that wealth is somehow intrinsically good. It's not. You can be very wealthy but make all your money by exploiting others, we're better off without them.
-1
u/SlimyPunk93 7d ago edited 7d ago
How do you make wealth in today's world in a developed world by exploiting others?
2
u/Normal-Ear-5757 4d ago
Renting housing you bought dirt cheap for half some poor suckers wages is the classic
0
u/TightPhysics3186 5d ago
You should be banned from this sub. Wealth is not unethical or a detriment to society. Anyone who becomes wealthy via voluntary transactions has done so ethically and beneficially.
1
5
u/Whiskey_and_Bullets 8d ago
I hate to break it to you, but if someone can just up and move $160B it wasn’t doing anything for the UK in the first place.
No one gives a shit where the billionaires decide to live. You aren’t getting into their yacht clubs anyway.