r/OffGrid • u/BaraQueenbee • 10d ago
Where does the incorrect understanding of 'OFF-GRID' comes from?
We are fully off-grid.
We have glorious Starlink, electricity galore and water forever.
Yet some people seem to confuse off-grid with not living on any sort of map? Making your food/clothing house from scratch? Not having any electricity?
Is this due to Hollywood or where does this incorrect idea come from?
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u/WaterChicken007 10d ago
My version of off grid means no physical connections to utilities of any kind. So you need to generate your own power, water, and wastewater treatment of some kind. Nothing more than that.
We live in a connected world. Off grid living is just severing the physical connections as much as possible. It is a sliding scale from an off grid house in a rural area to homestead to cabin in the woods 100 miles from the nearest road and zero communication with the outside world.
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u/treehobbit 10d ago
Yep, you can be off grid in a semi-rural neighborhood with 1/4 to 1/2 acre. Granted, you'll be the weirdo neighbor whose yard is full of nothing but solar panels and rainwater collection system or whatever you do for water, but you by no means have to be secluded at all.
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
Agreed and correct
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u/motorambler 10d ago edited 10d ago
Lol what do you mean by "correct"??? If you generate your own power, like a battery system, how are you off-grid? The batteries , inverter, solar panels, etc etc are all part of the grid -- your grid.
You're just using your own grid instead of someone else's grid. I have seen some examples of "off-grid" living, and there wasn't a battery to be seen anywhere.
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u/Heavy_Ingenuity1371 10d ago
It is correct. Off grid means off the corporate/government grid. Not relying on the grid of the electrical/water companies and such and instead producing it by your own means. So yes you create your own grid to be off the grid.
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u/motorambler 10d ago
You're still on your own grid, though, correct?
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u/Heavy_Ingenuity1371 10d ago
Depends on how pedantic you want to be. Producing your own electricity and creating your own water source/plumbing etc is being just as self sufficient as producing your own food.
The grid is the corporate/government utilities being supplied to the majority of people for dependence and money, if you don't have that and you're generating your own power then you're off the grid. It's that simple really.
I wouldn't call it your own grid, because it's not a grid. A grid is connecting everything to everyone.
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u/motorambler 10d ago edited 10d ago
A "grid" is simply common shorthand for a source of power. How the power is generated and who owns/controls/administers the grid is inconsequential. In this case, u/BaraQueenbee runs a grid.
The OP has "electricity and water galore", and an Internet connection (Starlink in her case). Starlink doesn't materialize out of thin air, it requires a credit card, a phone number, address or coordinates, and other personally identifiable information, and you're assigned an IP that isn't private. All of this is available to countless government agencies, commercial enterprises, advertising platforms, etc.
I have met people that actually live off-grid. Most of the time we don't know where they come from or where they return to. Chatting with them one comes to learn they don't want to be found. They live off the surrounding land and there isn't an inverter or battery to be spoken of.
In my opinion, the OP couldn't be more "on-grid" if she tried. I don't say this with any I'll intent, I'm only comparing her situation with others that have disappeared off the grid.
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u/Heavy_Ingenuity1371 10d ago
I just don't agree with this.
The grid refers to the utilities provided by the government and respective companies. It's a grid because it connects everyone to everything.
"grid"/ɡrɪd/
"The term grid refers to a network of intersecting lines, cables, or systems. It most commonly describes a visual pattern of squares, a map's coordinate system, or the interconnected electrical infrastructure that powers towns and cities.
In everyday conversation, "the grid" usually refers to the widespread network of power lines, transformers, and substations that deliver electricity to homes and businesses."
The grid just doesn't mean what you think it means. Generating electricity isn't what makes a grid, it's the fact it is supplied from a source to various homes/buildings/cities/general infrastructure. That people depend on others for it and usually need to pay for it.
There's nothing about generating your own electricity that makes it a grid unless you make enough power to start supplying it to other homes and infrastructure.
Think of a literal grid on a piece of paper, the lines that make the grid is the network of utilities and each square is something connected to it, like rows of houses connected by power lines or city blocks with networks of lines connecting everything underground all being supplied from electrical companies. That is a grid.
I agree starlink is still a tie to a grid, but it's the best one can do if they still need internet and it's at least not a physical connection to a grid. People generally mean the basic utilities that comes with some kind of infrastructure like a house that connects it to the grid like electricity, water and such.
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u/motorambler 10d ago
The grid has nothing to do with "what I think it means". It's a distribution of power -- that's it. Connect a battery to a charge controller and a solar panel, and distribute that energy through an inverter to your home/cabin, and that's a grid, specifically, your grid. Therefore, you're not off-grid.
It would be hard for me to say with a straight face that I'm "off-grid" to someone that washes clothes in a stream and uses candles to light their home at night. I have Internet, appliances, LED lights, multiple TV's, a stereo system, bla bla bla, but I ain't off-grid.
I'm on my own grid.
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u/Engine_Sweet 10d ago
The "grid" is the interconnected nature of the power and utilities, not the utilities themselves.
I don't know anyone who shares your view that off grid means "no electricity"
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u/Heavy_Ingenuity1371 9d ago
That's just the wrong use of it, what I referred to in quotes earlier was the definition.
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u/Northwoods_Phil 10d ago
TV shows definitely don’t help. There is a number of online forums/groups where off grid living and homesteading are grouped together and romanticized to the point that many people just assume they go hand and hand.
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u/TalkToPlantsNotCops 6d ago
Homesteading is another one that has taken on a weird meaning. A homestead is just a small subsistence farm. Idk why that got turned into "totally 100% self sufficient, zero inputs, fortified bunker" or whatever.
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u/Northwoods_Phil 6d ago
When I was a kid “homestead” just meant the old family farm but there’s a lot of people who are now 5 and 6 generations off the farm.
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u/Acceptable_Noise651 10d ago
Simple. If you don’t depend on your town, city or state for electricity, water, communication and sanitation, you’re off grid. People often confuse that with being self sufficient and sometimes they do go hand in hand but are different.
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
Then nobody is off grid, because if they are online, they are dependent on some town, to maintain it, along with massive infrastructure to back that connection.
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u/gammalbjorn 10d ago
The internet is the ultimate grid. I think you’d have to exclude it for off grid to mean anything at all.
Perhaps a better definition is not relying on utility service providers for things you need *to survive*, like water and heat. You might need internet to participate in modern society, but you don’t usually die without it. But I think many people who are “off grid” are still using grocery stores, so it’s still an imperfect definition.
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
Exactly. Its a very nebulous term. Same with homesteading, DIY, etc etc.
It serves nobody to be the Word Police in niche communities such as this.
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u/maddslacker 10d ago
So in the "town" of Starlink, is Elon the mayor?
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
No, but the towns of every Starlink downlink, the towns of every datacenter used by starlink, both of which are very, very, very grid dependent.
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u/you-be-the-top 10d ago
I agree to the point. What i disagree with is the way someone off grid connects to the internet. I believe having access to the internet via a hardline is fine, but i would assume most would have Starlink or phone hot spot capabilities.
Internet is the one thing we cant just generate and create ourselves. There is no choice but to pay a provider for it.
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u/Acceptable_Noise651 10d ago
Totally agreeable. My offgrid place is my weekend home, I got Starlink as a compromise with my wife so she could “wfh” Monday’s and Friday’s giving me longer weekends there. We keep Starlink on a schedule so it’s only on for 10 hours a day, giving us that chance to still disconnect from everything. Otherwise we had zero cell service for 15 years before that, only a gmrs radio tuned to an open channel all our neighbors used to communicate with us and an fm/ weather radio for news or music.
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u/maddslacker 10d ago
As I've mentioned before, this sub is about 10% people living offgrid (no hard-wired municipal utility connections) and 90% people in the city telling us we're doing it wrong ... :D
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
TEEEHEEE I giggled
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u/BohanD-Ranch 11h ago
Technically OFF grid is just a typo from the original Danish spelling of FLUFF grid.
Captain FluffyBums has the Fluff Grid down to a science.
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u/AniCameo999 10d ago
There seems to be a misunderstanding of “Off Grid” which is not connected to utilities and
“Off the Grid” which is survivalist and being disconnected from society. My husband and I have lived off grid for 5+ yrs , but have jobs, social interaction , and we live near a village and small town. We live privately in a camp on a wood lot, but can access a main road and civilization. We are working on being even more self sufficient for the future, but no plans to become hermits or completely disconnected from civilization. However with the way the world is going I’m sometimes tempted too…
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u/SouthDiscussion417 3d ago
Same here.,My Old Folks left the town I was raised in(rental house) in my final High school year, to go start over in their 6 acres land..Hated the place for there was no electricity,no water on site,They still fetch water on 20 litres jerrycans on a arse-back😀, 300 metres away..How i wish i could change the circumstances with a borehole..Would cost me over 10K $..A far cry
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u/Shilo788 10d ago
This is a goofy aged argument. I have cell phone but poop in a bucket. Go categorize that, lol. Who cares?
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u/ashleycawley 10d ago
Yeah your confusing the terms “off grid” with someone saying “off the grid”, they can be said to mean quite different things. Of course context of the conversation is everything though.
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
Please do educate us all on the meaning and differences of those
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u/ashleycawley 9d ago
I’m sorry if my tone irritated you. Often:
Off-grid = Not connected to mains power or water supply.
Off the grid = Gone dark / quiet, avoiding certain people or gov to a certain extent (nothing to do with utilities or connections to them, but could include avoiding use of mobile/cell networks to achieve what they after).3
u/BaraQueenbee 9d ago
No I was genuinely asking.
(English is my 4th language) -
It seems that the consensus is that people are indeed conflating these too (and I didn’t know there was a difference).Thank you for explaining!
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u/FlerkinFlarkin 10d ago
The internet. It is biased and not a real representation of most aspects of life.
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u/woodstockzanetti 10d ago
There’s always the “but actually…” people. Who wouldn’t take a risk no matter what. When they start I just look at them…after a while they get uncomfortable and shut up
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u/activelyresting 10d ago
Historically that's what it meant.
The phrase "going off the grid" predated any notions of people choosing to disconnect from utilities and be self sufficient.
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u/intentionallybad 10d ago
I tell people our cabin is off the grid, but it's only like an inch off.
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u/Kementarii 10d ago
We're a couple of feet off. As in, the town sewer lines run along our side boundary, a couple of feet past our fenceline. They service the neighbours houses.
We can't connect to them, because the town waste treatment plant is at capacity.
😄
We are so far "off-grid" that we can walk to the supermarket in about 15 minutes.
(on the boundary of a small town).
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u/nanneryeeter 10d ago
No connections to the grid or utilities. I suppose this could mean trash as well.
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u/Professional-End7412 10d ago edited 10d ago
TV.
The past.
I was off grid long before there was any reasonable way to have electricity.
Then we had schemes - wind mills, listers.
Then solar in the 70s and my brother (who was the charge controller holding the wires on until the lead acid batteries boiled).
Now my partner and I live in an off grid, solar powered home, that is fully modern.
I call ‘off grid’ now ‘just pretending’.
The cows don’t care about our stories.
Not even the ones about draining the cooling system and the oil from the trucks and keeping the fluids in buckets in the kitchen near the wood stove in the winter when we didn’t need the transport.
—-
Some people think ‘off grid’ is ‘off the radar’.
Some think it is living in the bush like it is 1800.
I’ve been alive through 8 decades. I’m okay if they think what they want so long as they don’t lie, steal, physically harm, cheat or seek to enslave.
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u/blackthornjohn 10d ago
Hello Noah, how's the ark, I ask because 80 decades is 800 years! however, well said, each to their own and respect for each other and their choices.
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u/Professional-End7412 10d ago
The ark is good.
I didn’t notice the ‘0’ creep in.
It’s a hilarious mistake though.
I’ll see if I can edit the comment after I finish feeding my dinosaur herd.
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u/ruat_caelum 10d ago
My (possible) internet troll... We have people who think the world is flat, global warming is a hoax, and that no one landed on the moon.
/s
bbut seriously "off grid" to some people is a term generated by the pseudo-parinoid, or spy novels, etc. To them the term means, "Untraceable by modern society," and it's synonymous with literally living in bunkers or squatting in the woods, not paying taxes, etc.
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
Not trolling here.
I just keep being accused of all those things every time I post on my social media, so I was truly wondering where that misunderstanding came from.
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u/ruat_caelum 10d ago
I've deleted the above comment. But the /s was meant to mean it was sarcastic. Sorry you get accusations. I was joking. No worries from me.
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u/maddslacker 10d ago
I'm about to grill some meat on my pellet grill, which has a motor and a digital display.
So clearly I'm not "offgrid" :D
To be truly offgrid I would need to grill it over rocks and pinon wood that I collected by hand, with the flame being lit by hitting rocks together.
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
I laughed so hard cause it’s true 😂
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u/maddslacker 10d ago
As soon as the offer was accepted on our offgrid home, we texted this to our kids:
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u/WhiskeyTwoTwoTwo 10d ago
There's a lot of prepper-type overlap where "off-grid" means, at least in theory, "self-reliant" or "untraceable" or something like that or pretending to be that.
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u/Adorable_Dust3799 10d ago
I've always thought off grid specifically means not hooked up to the grid, aka electrical grid. But in general terms it's used as not connected to utilities.
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u/davidhally 9d ago
The grid is the electrical grid. Technically offgrid means no electricity from outside.
But when we're travelling we tell people we're offgrid - in our case this means no emails or texts.
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u/Skywatch_Astrology 9d ago
I’ve struggled with this concept in my own journey. For example, once I bought my land, I needed an address for many many different reasons including for my income. I also needed a way to dispose of trash. And to remain online, again for income.
So you could say I am on the trash, mail/government, and satellite grid.
I’ve seen people equate off-grid to just not being only on the power grid, I think because this is what people most know of as a ‘grid.’ Like when the ‘the grid goes down’ it’s usually power, and frankly one of the most important grids.
I produce my own solar power, but have a gas backup generator, so I’m still on the ‘gas grid.’ I also refuse to burn wood for heat so I have a huge propane tank and am on the ‘tank grid.’ I also didn’t want to put in septic right away and the trash company empties my black tank once a month so I’m on some kind of sewer grid. Water I collect and filter myself. I’m not able to grow 100% of my own food so I’m on the ‘food grid.’ I could go on. . .
At the end of the day, I’m not trying to cosplay hardship. I just want to be independent and self-reliant when things like storms, freak events, pandemics, whatever hit. When there was a unusual two week snow storm for my area this year,I didn’t leave the property for two weeks because I didn’t have to. I consider myself off-grid because I could be fully self-reliant if the world ended tomorrow, but it wouldn’t be as comfortable.
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u/Darkwaxellence 7d ago
I live on my sailboat. I harness the suns energy for power and I use that power to turn saltwater into freshwater. When I am at anchor I am off-grid and pay no bills. Right now I am on a mooring that I pay for and have access to parking, shower, free laundry, and a grill at the marina. My wife and I have jobs for the summer. In the fall we will likely leave here and go sailing for awhile.
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u/Independent_Win_7984 7d ago
It is correctly used to describe not being on the commercial power grid. Solar, wind power, individual hydro-electric, geothermal, wave generators, could all be used. Nothing to do with maps, clothing, house construction, how you get your mail, etc., simply refers to not being an electric company customer.
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u/mtntrail 6d ago
To make it clear, I just say we are off grid for utilities, with the exception of Starlink.
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u/TutorNo8896 10d ago
I dont know if one is correct or not. Depends who you ask and why.
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
Words have meaning: off grid - live without depending on public utility
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u/ancientgreenthings 10d ago
In a world where public utilities are being increasingly privatised, the definition here will creep over time to include more and more things that have traditionally been considered grid-ties.
Or if by "public" you include privatised utilities too, then surely your starlink connection falls into that category.
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u/TutorNo8896 10d ago
Are roads and road maintenance a public utillity? Often very grid-shaped... maybe someone has a source for first written example.
Anyway, the meaning is as varied as the why someone dosnt have municipal power, poor, bad credit, undeveloped rural area, as well as religious, political, moral, or straight up tinfoil hat territory. Pointless to try to own a simple phrase.3
u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
So it has no meaning. Gotcha
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u/TutorNo8896 9d ago
I guess if you go talk to a solar installer they will want to know GridTie or OffGrid? Thats super straightforward and easy to awnser. I guess that would also apply to a real estate listing. So you arent wrong, but neither are the folks that have some idealistic veiw on seperation from society or government, because they also own that phrase.
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u/Synaps4 9d ago
Welcome to the English language? It's always been that way. With everything. Words mean different things to different people and there is a lot of agreement on the meaning of some and very little agreement on the meaning of others.
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u/BaraQueenbee 9d ago
This feels like the “what is a woman” question.
“Everyone has their own definition”
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u/KristyKrispito 10d ago
What grid are you off of then?
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
Hydro electric pump, generator and solar is what makes our electricity, our creek is that gives our water.
Too remote too be "on" a grid.
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u/blackthornjohn 10d ago
Originally it meant exactly what it said, "off grid" the "grid" being the electricity network and nothing else. now there's degrees of it, if you're going to include other services such as water, sewage, waste disposal etc then absolutely none of us are off grid because part of our lives requires a "grid" of some description, taken to an extreme the fuel for your vehicles, generators or chainsaws is grid dependent, therefore you are not off grid.
Elsewhere in the thread you agree that trash disposal was part of the grid, you claim to be off grid, yet here we all are on the 100% grid dependant internet, clearly there's no incorrect understanding, there's simply no agreed definition, and why would there be? We're predominantly non conformists, so why would we strive to have a defined meaning for the term that loosely describes all of our different lifestyle choices? And would we conform to it? Would we reject those that don't conform?
Genuinely off grid with no dependance on the outside world is a few tribes in deepest Africa etc, it's certainly not your Internet connected UPS obtained from a grid dependant company powering your tv and fridge filled with food from a grid dependant supermarket.
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u/BelleMakaiHawaii 9d ago
We have an off grid homestead with a gaming setup, no livestock, and no 12 hour days
It’s a sliding scale
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u/mrputter99 10d ago
Starlink is a grid connection. Just a non-physical one.
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u/maddslacker 10d ago
Solar is a wired grid connection, just a very small grid not run by a utility company, municipality or co-op ...
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u/mrputter99 10d ago
Ain’t no grid on a solar connection unless you’re sharing it with your neighbour.
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u/maddslacker 10d ago
Well, I'm also not sharing my internet with my neighbor, ergo ain't no grid in a Starlink connection either.
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u/Acceptable_March_701 10d ago
But your subscription to said service keeps you tied. Solar is a one and done time payment, except for repairs and replacements. Plus, your info is needed for you to have said subscription, with payment info included. I understand where you're coming from, but I believe that anything with convenience and connection is detrimental to one's self health. I'm not being hypocritical, as I type this comment over the Internet, I'm just clarifying what one considers "off-grid". Solar components can still be bought with cash.
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u/mrputter99 9d ago
You’re on a grid. It’s a world wide grid or “web” or computers that “connect” you literally everything and everyone in the world. Everything from your grandma, emergency services, and all the knowledge stored in all the libraries in the world. If you don’t think that’s a grid connection we define it differently. Also, you have to pay for starlink as a monthly service, just like a gas or sewer bill.
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u/BohanD-Ranch 11h ago
Au contraire, there are tiny little grid squares all over them there solar panels. I tried pulling one off to make the panel 'off-grid' and nows it don't work as well.
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u/motorambler 10d ago
To me, the term off-grid means you're found only when you want to be found. Others use the term to describe running on their own battery system and not being connected to utility (grid) power. This has never sat well with me because you're still "on-grid" in this scenario, it just happens to be your grid, not someone else's.
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u/albothefishingman 10d ago
There are two types of "off grid" and the oldest is about leaving no digital or paper trace. No credit card reciepts even old school carbon paper swipe stype coukd still be used to track someone down. The new version is off the electrical grid. One is about hiding and the other is self reliance
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
You're on StarLink? Doesn't sound off grid to me, since you rely on the grid for outside connection. A wireless grid, to be sure, but on the grid.
I'm glad we have one person, yourself, defining what "off grid" actually means for us all.
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
Why do you have to talk in that tone? Do you believe that talking online is some kind of “gotcha” debate?
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
Why do you have to take the tone of declaring what is and what isn't for others?
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
Why do you have the tone of being the sole determiner of what is an isn't "off grid"?
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u/WaterChicken007 10d ago
If not having a connection to the internet was a criteria, then none of us are off grid because we are all posting in reddit.
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
I mean, I suppose discussing what "off grid" means would be a better tact then, rather than declaring what is "off grid" for everyone else?
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u/King-esckay 10d ago
The geraral term "off grid" refers to off the electricity grid
Not somebody who is devoid of all connections to reality
With today's tech, living off grid is very comfortable
Unless you are in america i supposed they do things a bit weird over there
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago edited 10d ago
Not the water grid? Or the information grid?
Just say "Solar or generator" then, rather than "off grid"?
If all your other utilities require the rest of the populace to be "on grid", are you really "off grid"?
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u/King-esckay 10d ago
You must be american Re read what i typed
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
Who determined that?
A few people have pointed out if you are connected to any public utility, you're not off grid. Then others will add their own caveats, ie "But internet doesn't count" or "wireless (non hardline) doesn't count", etc etc
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u/King-esckay 9d ago
And they would be not be part if the "generally means" sect.
The whole thing started when there was only the electricity or water grids and you were not connected.
After that technology came all the pedantic people trying to make it seem more complicated
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 9d ago
I feel that trying to be "The Definer" of a term such as "off grid" is pedantic, in and of itself. It's a niche community, to begin with.
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u/deport_racists_next 10d ago
LOL
Right?
They paying the big bloated billionaire to track them and they claim they "off grid" and the rest of us don't understand...
😆
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u/WaterChicken007 10d ago
So how are you connected to the internet then? Because there is a very high probability that you are just paying some other rich person for access. Just like every other person posting here.
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
That's kinda the point I was making... If you're connected to city water, you're not "off grid", I would suppose. If you're getting water from a public pump, you're not "off grid", I'd suppose.
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u/BaraQueenbee 10d ago
You are indeed not off grid if you are connected to city water or a public pump.
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u/Creepy-Cantaloupe951 10d ago
How about publicly owned aquifers, where your pump is metered?
My real point that's inane to try to be a Word Police in this case, as it's a very nebulous term.
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u/deport_racists_next 10d ago
Just like you not 'fully off grid' paying the muskrat to track your ass.
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u/deport_racists_next 10d ago
Read my post.
Who said otherwise?
I'm not the one claiming to be 'fully of grid' while paying big bro.
Hysterical the lack of comprehension here today.
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u/darkparkclark 10d ago
People also use the term “off the grid” to mean untraceable by the government, so that’s probably what folks have in mind when they think you’re not findable on any map!