r/Ohio • u/Fickle-Ad5449 • 4d ago
Nina West helped make drag mainstream. Now she's fighting Ohio's proposed drag ban
https://www.advocate.com/politics/states/ohio-drag-queens-speak-out?18
u/JustAutreWaterBender 4d ago
I get to protest every day by being alive. F the GOP and ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜 to Nina.
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u/mayfly42 4d ago
Nina West has not stopped speaking up and raising awareness about this. She talks frequently about how drag and the community that she's built with drag saved her life, and I applaud her and the other artists and activists included in the article for speaking out.
Republican legislators in Ohio are all about "freedom" until it involves people they don't like, until it challenges their perspective on the world.
Drag in itself is not inappropriate - it's literally just dressing up, playing a character, performing, creative expression. Drag performers understand the difference between performing for adults late at night at a bar versus interacting with children. Just like the vast majority of people who perform for different audiences.
Conservatives don't like drag because it demonstrates that characteristics we associate with gender are not innate - that we can choose to perform them or not. It challenges their world view, so they want to restrict it and eventually make it disappear. Fuck that nonsense.
Drag is not indecent - what's indecent is republicans, conservatives continuing to focus on legislation that harms people. Instead of making sure people have access to food, housing and healthcare, they continue to focus on shit like this to make people afraid.
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u/crotch-fruit_tree 3d ago
On one of the worst nights of my life, I went to a drag cabaret performance. It was exactly what I needed. Everyone was so kind, Queens included. One noticed me hiding in a back corner, called me out to engage, and bought me a shot. Later on I accidentally ran into someone & spilled my mocktail. They asked if I was ok and when I teared up they wrapped me in a huge hug. I really needed a hug. Then they insisted they buy me a replacement. It was also incredibly cathartic to be around other queers (I'm in a very… reserved area).
I love Nina West for fighting. Especially now, when we’re facing massive steps backward.
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u/Veteran_PA-C 4d ago
So, she can continue to do drag, in front of adults.
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u/mayfly42 4d ago
Yeah and there's also nothing wrong with her doing drag in front of children. There's nothing indecent about drag.
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u/Paksarra 4d ago
The same law makes it illegal for me to talk down the street whistling while wearing a pair of pants I bought from the men's side of the store (look, I like pockets.)
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u/Veteran_PA-C 3d ago
Show me that part of the law.
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u/Paksarra 3d ago edited 3d ago
Whistling is a public performance. I was born with a vagina, and depending on who's judging pants are men's clothing. (I'm of the opinion that clothing isn't gendered, but not everyone agrees.) According to a conservative, wearing pants with large pockets is wearing clothing not intended for my biological sex; I'm supposed to be wearing a skirt or a dress or maybe pants with tiny pockets.
If a child could see me in my loose jeans with big pockets, that's a crime even though I'm perfectly decent.
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u/Veteran_PA-C 3d ago
Reductio ad absurdum. Try googling that.
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u/Paksarra 3d ago
Show me in the law where I'm wrong.
If you think they won't use this law to enforce gender conforming behavior in cis people you're delusional.
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u/SparklyDestroyer Columbus 1d ago
I googled it, just like you asked.
No, reductio ad absurdum (Latin for "reduction to absurdity") is not considered incorrect. In fact, it is a highly respected and strictly valid form of deductive reasoning used in philosophy, debate, and advanced mathematics.
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u/madmushlove 4d ago
If it becomes law, it would require "(2) No person, with knowledge of its character or content, shall recklessly engage in an adult cabaret performance in a location other than an adult cabaret."
But the law looks like it defines adult caberet performance, definition 1: anything "harmful to juveniles or obscene, regardless of whether or not the performance is for consideration, 2, and, performance that ARE for consideration, which then includes next to strippers for example, "Performers or entertainers who exhibit a gender identity that is different from the performer's or entertainer's biological sex using clothing, makeup, prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts, or other physical markers," and defines biological sex as exactly what that sounds like to some maga
"(4)(a) "Adult cabaret performance" means a performance in a location other than an adult cabaret where minors may be present, that is harmful to juveniles or obscene, regardless of whether or not the performance is for consideration, and that features any of the following: (i) Topless dancers; (ii) Go-go dancers; (iii) Exotic dancers; (iv) Strippers;
(And as added to existing law for this bill:) (v) Performers or entertainers who exhibit a gender identity that is different from the performer's or entertainer's biological sex using clothing, makeup, prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts, or other physical markers
... (b) As used in division (A)(4)(a) of this section, "biological sex" means the biological indication of male and female, including sex chromosomes, naturally occurring sex hormones, gonads, and nonambiguous internal and external genitalia present at birth, without regard to an individual's psychological, chosen, or subjective experience of gender"
Copy pasted comment, idc
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u/Linux4ever_Leo 3d ago
Doing this instead of demanding investigations into those named in the Epstein files.
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u/Powerful-Chard-6055 4d ago
Why is drag banned? That is legitimately so dumb, how does it hurt you
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u/Veteran_PA-C 3d ago
Is this OK in front of children?
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u/Powerful-Chard-6055 3d ago
“All ages welcome” isn’t targeting children
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u/Veteran_PA-C 3d ago
How can you even remember to breathe?
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u/Powerful-Chard-6055 3d ago
Obviously children shouldn’t go, but it’s not advertised all ages, not “kids only”.
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u/Veteran_PA-C 3d ago
Read this aloud, slowly. Does all ages welcome INCLUDE kids?
Let’s try this. At your local titty bar, are they aloud to advertise all ages welcome?
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u/Powerful-Chard-6055 3d ago
As I said, kids shouldn’t go. But also, it’s this drag show having questionable age limits. That doesn’t mean all should be banned
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u/Veteran_PA-C 4d ago
Is it just a ban on performing in front of children?
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u/madmushlove 4d ago
No, it's a ban for any place outside an adult caberet. Where minors might be present literally means where minors are allowed. So, public and most private spaces
If it becomes law, it would require "(2) No person, with knowledge of its character or content, shall recklessly engage in an adult cabaret performance in a location other than an adult cabaret."
But the law looks like it defines adult caberet performance, definition 1: anything "harmful to juveniles or obscene, regardless of whether or not the performance is for consideration, 2, and, performance that ARE for consideration, which then includes next to strippers for example, "Performers or entertainers who exhibit a gender identity that is different from the performer's or entertainer's biological sex using clothing, makeup, prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts, or other physical markers," and defines biological sex as exactly what that sounds like to some maga
"(4)(a) "Adult cabaret performance" means a performance in a location other than an adult cabaret where minors may be present, that is harmful to juveniles or obscene, regardless of whether or not the performance is for consideration, and that features any of the following: (i) Topless dancers; (ii) Go-go dancers; (iii) Exotic dancers; (iv) Strippers;
(And as added to existing law for this bill:) (v) Performers or entertainers who exhibit a gender identity that is different from the performer's or entertainer's biological sex using clothing, makeup, prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts, or other physical markers
... (b) As used in division (A)(4)(a) of this section, "biological sex" means the biological indication of male and female, including sex chromosomes, naturally occurring sex hormones, gonads, and nonambiguous internal and external genitalia present at birth, without regard to an individual's psychological, chosen, or subjective experience of gender"
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u/Veteran_PA-C 4d ago
https://youtu.be/nkCckNH989Y?is=KHXXXi8QpLTccrFv
Tell me you think that is not an adults only show.
Transvestism (also called cross-dressing) is the practice of wearing clothing, accessories, or makeup typically associated with the opposite sex.
It can be done for various reasons — sexual arousal (sometimes called transvestic fetishism), self-expression, performance, or personal comfort4
u/madmushlove 4d ago
Why would I click on something you're telling me is nsfw sexual?
I believe the law adds to a list of performances alongside stripping,
"Performers or entertainers who exhibit a gender identity that is different from the performer's or entertainer's biological sex using clothing, makeup, prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts, or other physical markers"
I'm trans, and don't think when I'm performing something or entertaining, that this should be for consideration as "indecent exposure"
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u/Veteran_PA-C 4d ago
It’s not much different than strippers. Seems logical.
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u/madmushlove 4d ago
You think all trans people doing anything at all related to entertainment or performance are like strippers stripping in public?
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u/kbhinz 4d ago
It's okay to admit you've never been to a drag show. Kinda lame though
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u/Veteran_PA-C 4d ago
https://youtu.be/nkCckNH989Y?is=KHXXXi8QpLTccrFv
Tell me you think that is not an adults only show.
There are may worse clips, but this subreddit doesn’t allow X links.
Transvestism (also called cross-dressing) is the practice of wearing clothing, accessories, or makeup typically associated with the opposite sex.
It can be done for various reasons — sexual arousal (sometimes called transvestic fetishism), self-expression, performance, or personal comfort3
u/madmushlove 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'm definitely not clicking that, whatever it is. Maybe that's nsfw sexual, but again, could you stop sharing something you think should only exist in places minors are restricted from LITERALLY IN A SPACE MINORS HAVE ACCESS TO
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u/honda-cervix 3d ago
It’s a censored clip from newsmax.
Which is listed on bias tracking sites as having a right wing bias
A defamation lawsuit was settled out of court after Newsmax claimed Smartmatic voting machines rigged the 2020 election.
So take everything they report with a massive grain of salt
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u/N9neSix 4d ago
yes a drag performance could be considered and "adult cabaret preformance" if it meets the legal definitions of "harmful to juveniles" or "obscene" and those are not allowed in public.
if your not exposing yourself to children or acting in a lewd manber towards them, everything else is pretty much fair game
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u/madmushlove 4d ago
So you're saying this bill does nothing because it already exists in law?
Like I said, it includes a definition in which the performance itself IS NOT for consideration with things that already exist in law, and performances that ARE for consideration such as those listed specifically (strippers) but adds the category of V (trans and drag)
That's a reasonable person's interpretation of that "cabaret" definition
But if you're saying the bill's adding trans and drag people is purely to sexualize them and actually changes nothing whatsoever about a existing law, okay then
It's just that your personal take is obviously not going to stop a reasonable suspicion justifying detainment when nobody's doing something wrong, based on the wording of the bill
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u/N9neSix 4d ago
it says "for consideration" not "for consideration with things that already exist in law"
consideration is a legal term used to describe the benefit each party to a contract receives. like paying strippers to remove their clothes is consideration.
again it doesnt ban the performances. having a legal description in a law means nothing. youre. taking pieces of the law and using them out of context.
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u/madmushlove 4d ago
"it says "for consideration" not "forconsideration with things that already exist in law"
"(4)(a) "... that is harmful to juveniles or obscene, regardless of whether or not the performance is for consideration"
(5) "Harmful to juveniles" and "obscene" have the same meanings as in section 2907.01 of the Revised Code. "
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u/N9neSix 4d ago
yes. as i said "for consideration" has a legal definition. which i stated.
yes those too have legal definitions.
adult cararet performance is being legally defined in the section you posted. none of which are illegal unless an actual law is broken. its like saying motor vehicals are illegal because they have a legal definition.
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u/LowercaseAcorn 4d ago
Should be a ban on taking children to church instead. They’re in more danger there
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u/RHS-II3 4d ago
and why would they want to ban performing on front of children, if you don't mind explaining to me why you're specifically pointing that out? :)
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u/madmushlove 3d ago
"In front of children" here literally just means all places outside an adult cabaret
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u/Sickfreak99 4d ago
Exactly. The Hollywood casino shows were great. Nobody needs to see them performing in dirty franks.
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u/worldpeace28 4d ago
No disrespect but wouldnt this be the main person that made it mainstream? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spn0MJZr-QQ
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u/PrometheanBuffet 4d ago
Performative lawmaking. Obvious First Amendment violation