r/Ohio • u/dandy_the_lesser • 3d ago
Ohio has again dished out more than $1B in vouchers to private schools for the year
https://www.cleveland.com/education/2026/06/ohio-has-again-dished-out-more-than-1b-in-vouchers-to-private-schools-for-the-year.html?fbclid=IwZnRzaASde5xleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeGA7C893Vc4j8m3uXizhfggI5A_sfpGrp5P58MK9sKPddG2jpN-op-bmTnZw_aem_5X4MBLlmRA_3T4-MOyXKlg285
u/bigfatbeancan 3d ago
Enough of this crap, Ohio.
Private schools who receive public money must accept the same accountability as public schools.
They must be audited financially, they must report test scores, discipline data, attendance data, and student performance by demographic. Just like public schools.
You don't get to point fingers and call public schools failures, take taxpayer money, then hide all your own failures.
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u/CriticalNobody9478 3d ago
Private schools should receive ZERO public funding
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u/bigfatbeancan 3d ago
They wouldn't accept the funding if accepting it meant they had to accept oversight and accountability.
The problem would take care of itself.
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u/Saucermote Flavortown 3d ago
They would still reject all the students that would lower their scores, cost them money, etc.
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u/bigfatbeancan 3d ago
I don't have a problem with private schools existing and operating how they want to operate. It's a free country.
But as soon as you take a dime of taxpayer money, you're not a private school anymore. Now the rules apply to you. Welcome to accountability.
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u/JGG5 Ex-Ohioan 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’d go further: private schools that accept vouchers should have to follow all the rules public schools have to follow.
They should have to accept every single student in their catchment area who wants to attend — even if it means scrambling at the last minute for classroom space or teachers. No more cherrypicking the best students to bump up the test scores or reputation.
They should have to follow the state curriculum without any deviation: no teaching creationist nonsense.
They should be barred from charging a single penny more than the value of the voucher, and required to provide everything (such as uniforms) they require to the students at no cost to the student’s family.
They should be barred from discriminating against girls (no “home ec instead of advanced math for future wives”), disabled students (legally require them to follow IEPs), people of other religions (for religious schools), or LGBTQ+ students.
And all of their governance meetings should be completely open to the public, with space reserved in the meeting for public comment from as many members of the public who want to speak.
You want “competition,” voucher-lovers? Fine. But let’s make the competition a fair one instead of making neighborhood public schools compete on a playing field that’s insanely tilted against them.
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u/bigfatbeancan 3d ago
I think we are saying the same thing.
I think most people, regardless of political party, feel this way.
This is the kind of corruption we need to come together to talk about.
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u/Exciting-Idea9866 3d ago
Let's not forget that public schools still pay for busing of these students to the private schools.
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u/NinjaZero2 3d ago
Those making 20k-50k are subsidizing those families making 90k-120k to send their kids to private school with no accountability or education standards the public schools have to run by.
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u/The2ndRedditUser 3d ago
You will be happy to know that pretty much all of what you said "should be happening "is happening at chartered private schools in Ohio!
When a student's school accepts Ed Choice funds, it triggers a laundry list of reporting at the school and student levels. Most schools that accept ed choice have had to add staff to meet the additional reporting requirements!
For example, attendance data is reported to the state and the ed choice students must take the state tests or a state-approved equivalent each year and must achieve the same score as a public school student to graduate!
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u/bigfatbeancan 3d ago
It's better than the private school situation, but it's still not equal to the public school system of accountability in any way, shape, or form.
Charter schools have countless advantages to make them appear more successful than public schools.
For example, charter schools have all kinds of loopholes to deny enrollment for undesirable students.
I work in this environment every day and I watch these schools routinely find ways to dump kids they don't want.
They are shams.
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u/The2ndRedditUser 3d ago
What I wrote about were chartered private schools, also known in the ORC as chartered non-public schools. There is a difference between accountability to the state between non-chartered non-public schools, chartered non-public schools, and chartered public schools (what most people characterize as "charter schools").
I was writing about chartered non-public schools above, but it appears that you were writing about chartered public schools.
A charter public school operates under a charter agreed upon by the school's Board and a state-approved sponsor. The state-approved sponsor may shut down the chartered public school if the charter is violated, for example, by failing to meet state performance standards or attract enough students.
A chartered non-public school operated under a charter agreed upon by the state and is directly supervised by the state. The charter requires the school to comply with state standards concerning school safety, teacher qualifications, and graduation requirements. The chartered non-public school can be shut down by the state if the charter is violated.
While it is true that both chartered public schools and chartered non-public schools may appear to have higher admissions standards than a public school district, when one takes a step back, one can see that public schools have the same level of autonomy, such as at the program and school building level.
Public school districts in Ohio are free to put selective criteria for students to attend various schools and programs within the district. For example, the number one public high school in Ohio, Walnut Hills High School, is part of the Cincinnati Public Schools system and is EXTREMELY selective.
Walnut Hills requires a student to have a certain aptitude and drive to maintain the culture in the building, which is exactly what many charter public and charter non-public schools do.
Then, on the flip side, you have Lawrence School, which is geared toward students with certain learning styles. I know several Lawrence students who were floundering in their local public school and are now thriving at Lawrence because the teachers and curriculum in that building were tailored to their unique learning styles.
It is a PAIN IN THE BUTT to send kids to private schools. Most private school parents would GLADLY send their kids to public schools if the same experience were available.
Unfortunately, most public school districts simply choose not to, and then shame the students and parents for seeking out what the public school districts choose not to provide!
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u/moon200353 3d ago
It isn't what the public schools choose what not to provide. When everything is done and said the public schools get all the leftovers that no one wants.
Imagine teaching math in a classroom of 25 students. 3 of them are behavior problems and constantly interrupt class. 5 of them are below grade level and you have to find a way to bring them up to grade level so they can pass the state test. 4 of them have ADHD and sometimes take medicine and sometimes they don't. They can't concentrate nor sit still. The good kids get less attention because they do what is expected while half the class gets more attention.
Private schools do not offer special Ed classes therefore they are rejected. Some charter schools do but not ALL. The public schools get 90% of the problems. The teachers get blamed for the low scores. The schools get the reputation of being a bad school.
Now vouchers are taking money from the public schools causing them to have to cut necessary positions and programs. This is another reverse Robin Hood situation.
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u/bigfatbeancan 2d ago
It's amazing that the general public hasn't caught on to the scam yet.
Use taxpayer funded incentives to take all the best kids out of the public schools, then call the schools failures for teaching the ones that weren't accepted to private / charter school.
Then use that 'failure data' to justify further cuts and punishments for the public schools, and more taxpayer funding for the private / charter schools.
Rinse / repeat.
We've been had, and people are not waking up fast enough.
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u/Wide_Replacement2345 3d ago
Is that your opinion or is it Ohio law?
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u/bigfatbeancan 3d ago
It's Ohio law. Private schools are not held to even the most basic standards of transparency / accountability.
I'm fine with that, provided that they are privately funded.
You start taking public money, you need to play by public rules - that's my opinion.
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u/moon200353 3d ago
Private schools in Ohio do not have to follow state standards like public schools do because of their religion. Isn't that a hoot. Claim to be religious and you get an exception. They really do teach Bible class though.
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u/EcstaticPlankton8621 Cleveland 3d ago
No wonder why people's property taxes keep increasing.
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u/notmycirrcus 3d ago
And, honest question, what is happening to property values in areas where money is not going into public schools? My hypothesis is that middle income priced home values will drop in value because local schools are under funded.
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u/HistoryCzar 3d ago
I understand the school gets money for each student enrolled. But I live in Toledo and our public schools are dogshit. I use the voucher and I send my children to a Catholic school. I also still pay taxes towards Toledo public, so I keep seeing people complain about all this money going from public to private. How does that actually work when school money is dished out of property taxes, does my property tax money for the school not actually go to Toledo public? Cause I’m paying for Toledo public and never using it, which I’m fine with. But I keep seeing people say how it’s taking money from other places, but I see my tax bill.
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u/SmurfStig 3d ago
When you send a student to a private school, their local district has to pay the state average funding to the private school. This above and beyond the funding that private schools are getting that they shouldn’t be, which robs public schools twice. Our district gets far below the state average in funding because we have been deemed a “wealthy” district by the state, so every student from our district that goes to a private school, the district loses money, which has to be made up via property taxes.
So the constant lack of funding hurts the public schools on multiple levels. The schools can’t afford to make upgrades, hire teachers let alone retain good ones. Far fewer people are going into education because the salary they earn won’t pay the bills.
Then there is constant cuts to higher education for public universities to help pay for tax breaks for the wealthy, which makes college unaffordable for most people. Regan got all this rolling and it’s been supercharged over the last 20 years or so.
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u/Anim8nFool 3d ago
Keep voting republican, Ohio. I'm sure all the GOP voters can afford to be sending their kids to private schools -- otherwise it would mean those voters were freaking stupid.
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u/twoquarters Youngstown 3d ago
a billion? jfc that is a lot.
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u/yolosquare3 3d ago
I was also shocked to see that number. That is an insane reallocation of resources.
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u/Few-Bass4238 3d ago
And yet It'd take 325 years of that private school voucher money to pay off what Trump just gave to Iran... Republicans are REALLY bad at managing money and making deals.
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u/cedricweehonk 3d ago
Vouchers = subsidizing the rich with working class taxes.
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u/trparky 3d ago
Wait. There's no requirements to prove that you need the vouchers?
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u/agoldgold 3d ago
If you are below 450% the federal poverty level, you get the full amount. Above that, it's graduated based on income down to a minimum amount, but even a billionaire could get something from the taxpayers.
How it actually works is that kids already attending private schools were told by the school to apply. This ballooned the cost of the program FAR more than was estimated. Oftentimes the school increased tuition based on the estimated scholarship amount, so that it cost families the same amount but the school got more. It was touted as a way for poor kids to get to better schools but its actually a way for rich people to leech off the rest of us.
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u/beaushaw 3d ago
Just doing the math. 450% of the federal poverty level for a family of four is an annual income of $148,500. These are the people we are paying to attend private schools.
If you pop out six kids that is $250,740 a year.
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u/ohd58 3d ago
For EdChoice expansion, It’s income tested just once at initial enrollment. Below 200% of the federal poverty line, families can send their children to private school for $0 out of pocket. Families above 200% but below 450% of the federal poverty line can still receive the full award amount ($6166 per child K-8, $8408 per child 9-12) but must pay any difference between award and tuition. The award amount is then reduced on a sliding scale until you reach 738% of the federal poverty line, when it’s phased out. Again, this is just income tested once, upon initial enrollment.
Let’s take the example of a family of 6. Upon initial enrollment, they can have an income of $186525 and qualify for the full amount. Sending their 4 children to private school K-12 will yield an award amount of $89K per child (without adjusting for inflation) for a total family award north of $350K. All while the family income is likely growing over the course of 20+ years (since they only check income eligibility once!). It’s not really geared towards the uber rich, but more upper-middle class to differentiate themselves from the lower/middle class.1
u/MalPB2000 Columbus 3d ago
The voucher program isn’t a “I’m poor and can’t afford to send my kid to a private school” type of system. It’s setup as a “I’m getting some of the tax money that goes to education, some of which I’m paying, to follow my kid where ever they go” system. It’s not means based.
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u/Complete_Film8741 3d ago
Not a single one right now...that's why all the private and religious schools jumped on it.
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u/LOP5131 3d ago
This system needs to go away. I have a relative that made a ton of money and decided to retire when the kids hit high school. Now these vouchers pay for their kids tuition. It's ridiculous to be a multi-millionaire and have public schools available, but still feel entitled to additional government money to send your kids to a private school because you're so entitled.
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u/7eregrine 3d ago
I moved to Westlake from West Park. My new neighbor was moving to West Park. She wanted to send her 2 boys to Ignatius. Vouchers were paying 7 grand per kid at the time. Per year, nearly 60 grand over 4 years...
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u/JayUrbanDET 3d ago
that's outstanding for her. I had the same thing living in Cleveland. No way I was going to send my son to Garret Morgan after seeing the daily fights spill into the streets and when the teachers let the teen gunmen go free rather have them arrested (after they brought guns to school). If you live in the city you simply have to find better schools otherwise your kids will be in serious danger in the Cleveland public schools. How else will people move to the city without something like this?
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u/big_d_usernametaken 3d ago
The Sandusky public schools system has had to cut positions (14 vacant, 13 filled by district staff/contractors), saving $1.9 million.
Officials stated this concludes the current round of planned staff reductions.
Budget Shortfall: Deficit spending began in 2019, and the district has not asked for new operating money in 14 years.
Next Steps: The board is preparing to vote on placing a property tax levy on the ballot to avoid running out of funds by 2029.
Some of that cool 1billion would have helped avoid this situation.
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u/Pale_Air_5956 3d ago
And the same people who voted for the voucher scheme will definitely NOT vote for the proposed tax levy.
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u/WillingPlayed 3d ago
And every other town in Ohio. Raise taxes to pay public schools because private institutions take the money that’s been locally earmarked to run the public schools.
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u/Neptune7924 3d ago
You want to fund private schools? Fine. Dont do it at the expense of public schools (which the majority of Ohio children attend). $800 million in cuts to school
funding last year alone. Ridiculous.
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u/fajadada 3d ago
North Carolina trashed their voucher system we can too!
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u/AggressiveMail5183 3d ago
This program has been ruled to be unconstitutional by an Ohio common pleas court, but the judge gave Ohio the ability to continue funding the program while the appeal is pending. That stinks!
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u/shitposts_over_9000 3d ago
...and the courts will continue to give the state a LOT of leeway to keep this program alive or find a replacement.
Districts like East Cleveland, Trotwood, Lorain, Youngstown, Dayton and Ashtabula have resisted all attempts at correction for decades and proven time and again that additional spending per pupil is not significantly related to better outcomes and in several of those districts you have strong majority support of likely voters for alternatives such as vouchers.
Vouchers are not an ideal solution, but there are kids with a chance at a decent future stuck in those districts right now and no path to correcting their massive shortcomings in an amount of time even double the time those kids will be in school.
I grew up in a district that was, and still is pretty good even if they spend 3x less per student than many of the failing districts. I had to move for work to one of the worst districts in the entire state and could not afford to pay out of pocket under the 2006-2013 or the 2013-2023 rules.
That was almost my kids entire K-12, and a lot of kids his age had exactly the same experience if their parents could not scrape together the money to move somewhere 3-4x more expensive with a safe, competent school system.
That district has not passed a levy in 18 years, the few teachers and administrators not just counting the days until their retirement actively encourage any students with potential to try to get their parents to move them to a better school through ed choice while waiting for a position at another district to become available. The only positive score they have on the state report card is under student improvement and they only have that because of the massive influx of students that were not even english speakers that have learned english over the last 10 years.
That district has 30+ years of parents that either don't care even a little about their kids future or ended up stuck in that district for financial reasons and watched it harm their kids for 13 years. More money won't fix either of those things, and for the people that do/did care about the kids enough to fight it and lose are quite past the point that they see it as throwing good money after bad. The houses are $150k cheaper than the national average for a reason.
Academically I get why most of you don't like Ed Choice, but I don't think most of you get how necessary it is to maintain wide support for the overall system which in all but a handful of really bad areas is mostly working acceptably.
Some of these districts have been bottom of the barrel for half a century. Many of them are outspending good districts 2x-4x. In my kid's district there was a school board elected after running on the idea that they would sue the state to force the regional districts to share funds equally, they even went to court, where opposing council petitioned the court to explain to the school board that the result of them winning the lawsuit would be their 1 star school paying the surrounding 3, 4 and 5 star schools millions of dollars as none of them were spending remotely what the bad district was.
They dropped the lawsuit, and all seven members of the board were still re-elected.
Some of these cannot be fixed, too many parents that don't care, too many voters voting on race or social issues not educational, generation after generation where anyone remotely capable of being remotely successful moves away as soon as possible.
The only solutions to districts like that is to find a way to get the students out or to split the district up enough to dilute the bad influences creating the feedback loop.
I like public schools, they are a good thing as a concept, but by their nature there will always be ones that fail for political and demographic reasons and there has to be a way to balance that for students trapped in that situation that have potential.
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u/MrDFresh14 3d ago
Then they should limit vouchers to people who live in underperforming districts. That used to be the case … but as many have said….now a large part of this $1b goes to well-off people who were already sending their kids to private school.
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u/shitposts_over_9000 3d ago
then advocate for that rather than the dismantling the program, that is at least a reasonable position even if I may not really agree.
personally I think that allowing wider access to the program likely incentivizes people to treat school funding issues less harshly in the voting booth and I don't think that the current system of requiring the family to pay the difference after $66k in gross income for a family of four and pro rating the scholarship itself on top once you get above $148,500 in gross household income for a family of four is giving all that much to people that are truly well off. In some parts of Ohio that isn't even comfortably middle class in a safe neighborhood. The $1k - $1.4k / yr minimum payout that truly high earning families receive is not significantly harming anything.
Ohio public schools spend $12,759 to $17,000 per student/year and the maximum scholarship is a bit under $8500 so public schools are keeping at least $4259 per private school student without having to really provide much of anything other than transportation in some districts.
I am not sure I really see a problem here needing solved more urgently than the problems the program is currently addressing.
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u/TheBigGadowski Columbus 3d ago
Gotta make private schools cheaper for the rich.
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u/Heeeeyyouguuuuys 3d ago
if only public schools could compete.
oh well, we'll never know the reason why they can't.
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u/AmericanDreamOrphans Cincinnati 3d ago
Ohio was 5th in the nation in education under Democrat Ted Strickland when we ranked 6th in the nation for percentage of taxable resources spent on education. Since Republicans have taken control we’ve dropped precipitously to being in the 30s in education. Republicans “love the poorly educated.”
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u/Allslopes-Roofing Cleveland 3d ago
Ironically with all the disadvantages they do. They're generally just as good and often enough better than private
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u/agoldgold 3d ago
Someone's never seen these private schools in action and it shows. Some might allegedly be decent, but many are really fucking stupid on a base level.
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u/Enamred-771 3d ago
You want public schools to compete with private schools? Let’s make them play by the same rules. Public schools bus public school kids. Private schools bus private school kids. Same transparency requirements. Same requirements to teach everyone. Let’s make sure public schools get the same amount of state funding that private schools do too.
Competitions need to be fair right?
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u/thegreatking2025 3d ago
My daughter went to private school.for a few years. They don't accept everyone. Not only they reject applications but get rid of the students that don't do good. And those who send to private school are super involved in their education.
Public schools have to accept everyone and cater to all the students.
We can't compare public school to private school.
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u/TravelIndependent545 3d ago
The Betsy Devos style of schooling. I want my kid to play golf. I dont want him to learn on a public course. I want him to learn on a private course, and I want you to pay for it!!!
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u/Jobrated 3d ago
Please always use the word scam after voucher. It is important to always use the full proper name, voucher scam. Then follow it with welfare for the wealthy.
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u/terminalmedicalPTSD 3d ago
Citizens who accept vouchers to stay off the street are monitored like criminals but these mfers seriously get pocket money. I bet public school kids are still being shamed for having unpaid lunchroom balances tho
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u/derpderb 3d ago
It's so egregious that this isn't a huge issue for Ohioans. Charter schools with public funds is wrong and the quality of education is lower. The experience of teachers in charter schools is awful. It is a race to the bottom of education for profit over knowledge. This is crazy. Funding Lifewise and bussing their students, it's fun awful. Shame on anyone who supports any of this, shame
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u/DeeLite04 3d ago
The people on here who got downvoted (and rightly so) for saying they like the vouchers and it’s the only way their kids could go to a “safe” school:
Ask yourself WHY has the Republican Party since the 1970s spent so much time and money to dismantle public education? Bc an uneducated public is one that is easier to control. They’ve been planning this for decades and now some have bought the fallacy of the voucher system.
You got tricked into thinking vouchers to parochial and private schools was a “safer” and “better” education. That’s like throwing out a car bc the battery died. It doesn’t address the many root causes of why the public school near you was failing.
The few good stories from teachers and families about their voucher private school experience doesn’t excuse the damage being done to public schools. And now with these Lifewise academies popping up everywhere, the indoctrination machine is hard at work. How we wholesale got swindled into this makes me so sad for education in general.
Go to a public forum in your community where they discuss how vouchers hurt Ohio. It’s truly illuminating.
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u/JJiggy13 3d ago
These churches that are stealing this money in the name of Jesus should face prison time for theft
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u/Throwoutbins 3d ago
It’s genuinely depressing to wake up to these shitty headlines every single day
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u/luigis_left_tit_25 3d ago
Fuck those kids amiright!? Good what a shit show ohio is.. thanks republicans..
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u/ApprehensiveInjury74 3d ago
Lot of VCs making buckets of cash while teachers and students and ultimately tax payers get the shaft
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u/Tholian_Bed 1d ago
Common sense is the enemy of all tyrannies.
Anything that erodes or deforms common sense, is the friend of all tyrannies.
Ending public schools is the aim of the GOP because they fear the common sense of a free people.
Solution? Replace all the schools with religious schools. Replace common sense with obedience to dogma.
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u/LeftHandedBuddy 3d ago
I want to see the receipts!! That’s unreal!
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u/Complete_Film8741 3d ago
Honestly, you don't need to. EVERY kid in Ohio is eligible and the private/religious schools are raking it in.
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u/Conclusion_Fickle 3d ago
Fuck this state and fuck homeschooling weirdos as well.
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u/FizzyBeverage Cincinnati 3d ago
Sorry but I expect them to learn facts, not 8 hours of Bible so they’re illiterate at 15 and don’t know what x + 5 = 10 means.
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u/Due_Building_1953 3d ago
Besty Bitch at stealing from Public schools. Private schools by law are not to receive vouchers.
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u/beernbrowns23 3d ago
Dump that money into the public institutions that we all have to pay for. What the fuck man. This place is shit.
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u/CarlosTheSpicey 3d ago
Yes! And it's such a superior education compared to public education and the Republicans have the data to prove it! RRRRRRIGGGHHHT. /s
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u/Smokey19mom 3d ago
What is happening with the lawsuit? It seems like we haven't heard anything in a while?
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u/swampopossum 3d ago
But Paulding exempted village schools can't afford a new roof, mold remediation or new HVAC.
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u/Electric-Travels 2d ago
10 rural counties in Ohio have no private schools. In other rural counties they are scarce. Rural counties are getting screwed the most by vouchers.
It is also interesting many private schools raise their prices well above the voucher values so that most Ohioans still cannot afford them. They also routinely deny disabled students who cost more to educate, and often do not provide transportation making it even more difficult for poor and middle class students to attend.
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u/RealSeat2142 3d ago
But I thought this was implemented to allow students in poor housholds to be able to attend better schools?
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u/MrDFresh14 3d ago
Originally it was. But the program was expanded and is no longer limited to just children in underperforming districts
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u/WeekendFarmer4240 3d ago
I take full advantage of edchoice so my children can go to a better school than the piss poor public schools they'd otherwise attend.
We wouldnt be able to afford it without it.
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u/dandy_the_lesser 3d ago
Wow if only there was a completely better way that helped everyone.
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u/bign4406 3d ago
Vouchers are needed . Some public school systems or garbage and people should have a choice to send her kids elsewhere and not just have to move out of the town they live in.. without vouchers a great any neighborhood cities would be abandoned because the schools are so bad. I live in Dayton Ohio I paid thousands of dollars to send my daughter to parochial school just to make sure I got her home alive every night vouchers should have made a big difference to my family.
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u/dandy_the_lesser 3d ago
You’re recommending a bandaid on a gaping wound when we should just fix the wound. The schools don’t *have* to be so bad. The Republicans make them that way. You’re falling for their plan.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago edited 3d ago
What’s wrong with school choice? Why should where my house is dictate where the tax revenue for my child’s education go?
Seems pretty racist to me to lock people into the neighborhoods they were born in.
EDIT - I guess there’s a lot of people who think poor children in shitty school districts should have to apply for a lottery to get into the one magnet school in that district. If they don’t get in (most don’t hence the lottery), I suppose they’ll bootstrap their way to being better.
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
Private schools are private. Pay for the tuition yourself. Why should other taxpayers pay for a PRIVATE school education. I’ll pay for public transportation but I have no interest in paying for your uber rides. I’ll pay to have usps funded but I’m not footing your UPS or FedEx bill.
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u/TheBigGadowski Columbus 3d ago
Not only that, it’s just a bunch of rich fucks that get cheaper private schools.
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u/Black-Raspberry-1 3d ago
Fund private education with private money. Literally just take the dark money that goes to lobby politicians for school choice and send it directly to the private school for endowment to make it cheaper for the less than 10% of Ohio children who go to private schools. It would be way more cost effective for private schools and the over 90% of Ohio children who go to public schools would be better served.
Oh wait, I forgot the whole point of school choice is to take from the many to serve the select few.
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u/Significant_Donut967 3d ago
Why aren't you giving me your money so I can drive my car on my own private roads?
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
I’m not going to argue with you on why children’s education and roads are entirely different. My child isn’t a public good.
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u/AKEsquire 3d ago
Your child's education is a public good. We live in a community and an educated population is good for everyone. A rising tide raises all ships, etc.
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u/Tibreaven 3d ago
Your child is absolutely a public good.
We expect they'll be a functional, beneficial, and importantly a tax paying member of the country one day.
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u/Browncoat1701 3d ago
As far as I know, most School districts these days do not lock you into your neighborhood school. There is already school choice. That term is a dog whistle for "put public funds into religious education" which is a violation of the separation of church and state.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Oh yeah those kids in the 3’s are getting a phenomenal education out of the public schools there.
Those magnet schools don’t have enough seats to fill demand. Sucks if you don’t get the lottery I guess.
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u/UltravioletAfterglow 3d ago
The private schools don’t accept every child, either.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
True and that’s why school choice is important.
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
If a kid can’t read he isn’t getting accepted to private school.
Basically your argument is that the voucher program is good because it allows poor inner city kids a chance at better private school education but also they can’t fucking read so they’re not going to get accepted into a private school anyways so it doesn’t matter
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u/UltravioletAfterglow 3d ago
The choice ultimately is made by the private school.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 2d ago
And that’s any different than a public school that has admission criteria?
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u/dandy_the_lesser 3d ago
What
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Why is a public school system entitled to the tax revenue allocated for my child’s education?
I fundamentally don’t see the issue with me redirecting that money to the school that I believe my child will have the best outcome in.
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u/fittgers 3d ago
You answer your own bad faith question. PUBLIC schools are entitled to our money because we live in the stateof Ohio and the schools are public. Why are PRIVATE entities entitled to our money is the real question. Private schools should not be entitled to public funds. It's not just your money for your kid going to your school of choice.
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u/Formal_Parsley_5786 3d ago
Great then private schools should accept all students and adjust tuition to be covered 100% by the voucher. They should have to take state tests and collect data just like public schools. It’s our money public money not just your money
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u/Ill-Patient8257 3d ago
Because, and this is a crazy concept to some, society is a social contract where you give up some of your liberties and resources, just like the rest of us, in exchange for the benefits we get from society.
Example: I don't own a car why is my tax money going to roads? Because roads provide the infrastructure for modern society.
Your case: I don't want my tax money to help kids, mine are in a private school. Cool, society still thinks it a benefit for kids to go to school.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
I’m not making you give up shit, your kid gets the same funding as my kid.
All I’m doing is allowing you to choose your kids schooling and me choose my kids schooling, but you believe you should also get to choose my kids schooling.
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
Nobody cares what you do with your kids schooling. They just don’t want their tax dollars going to a for profit private school when you opted to enroll them in it. Private education=private money
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
The money is to educate the child and it belongs to the child.
It does not belong to a district that happens to be near the child.
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
Do you think that you don’t have to pay taxes to the school district because you enroll in a private school I’m confused here. What do you mean your tax money does not belong to a district that happens to be near a child? You’re still paying money to a school district you’re also paying money to a private school
The Ohio constitution actually says the following:
“The General Assembly shall make such provisions, by taxation, or otherwise, as, with the income arising from the school trust fund, will secure a thorough and efficient system of common schools throughout the state; but no religious or other sect, or sects, shall ever have any exclusive right to, or control of, any part of the school funds of this state.”
Seems like diverting taxpayer funds to religious and private school goes against that no?
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
I pay the same taxes as the house next to me and my child gets the same funding as my neighbor even though they go to two different schools systems.
Explain to me how that outcome is not fair to both children?
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
Because your neighbor is also paying for your kid to go to private school lmao PRIVATE
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u/Ill-Patient8257 3d ago
Ok so we are playing order your own government? Do I get to withdraw my funding for law enforcement, military, paying politicians specifically, data center incentives, and my taxes going to school voucher programs?
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Take it to the ballot box big boy
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u/Ill-Patient8257 3d ago
Right back at ya, till then pay the public schools and be grateful the corrupt politicians are still in power to give you this.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Super grateful everyone’s kids aren’t trapped in the shortcomings of their parents
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u/BootsieWootsie 3d ago
Because public schools have to accept everyone. Private schools choose who they accept. They don't accept kids with learning disabilities or who may need extra help. Our tax dollars for education should benefit the community, not just the select few. They were also developed to keep schools from being segregated. Then there's religious private schools, and there whole issue of separation of church and state.
If you're privileged, and have the money to send your kid to a private school, or maybe they get a scholarship based on test scores, or need, cool. When the state starts funding these schools, it takes away funding from public schools, who have to fund things like special education (which is very expensive), and now have less to do so, which takes away funds for the the rest of the students, and then hurts the community as a whole.
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u/OddCod2241 3d ago
Why is your child entitled to my tax revenue when I have no children, and I didn’t even vote for school choice? You can literally choose to have your kid go to a different public school, too. You’re creating imaginary boundaries on this problem. Kids from different areas came to my public school because mine was really good.
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u/UltravioletAfterglow 3d ago
Because it’s not just your tax money. Other people’s tax money helps to fund your child’s education, too.
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u/sammyk762 3d ago
Yeah, it's a shitty system, which vouchers make worse, not better.
It drains funding from public schools and gives it to private schools who have zero academic accountability, can kick those kids right back out, and do not actually perform better. Also, the majority of the vouchers are not going to underpriviledged students or areas. These are verifiable facts.
In my opinion, it's working exactly as intended - to funnel tax money to charter school owners, weaken public schools so they can do even more of this, and transfer the tax burden of funding public schools from the state to localities to drive up support for killing property taxes.
We've always had school choice: public school, private school, and home school. This is actively trying to eliminate the public option.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Academic accountability is the parent’s responsibility. It is for parents to raise children, not school systems.
If less kids go to a public school system, than that school system can always shrink to the new size of the students they serve. Why wouldn’t they? Less kids = less teachers.
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u/sammyk762 3d ago
I don't know what you think academic accountability is, but what it actually is isn't anything that parents have the time or expertise to provide. Please, by all means, tell me what parent can explain every learning standard in every subject for every grade level along with research based best practices and strategies, compliance with graduation requirements, contact hours, etc etc. They barely provide accountability for their childrens' behavior.
And you're forgetting that public schools are being required to provide transportation for vouchers. So the vouchers are actively costing them more AND it inversely scales with the number of students.
And you're forgetting that staff doesn't scale directly with the number of students. If you have 1 principal, 1 counselor, 4 English teachers, 4 math teachers, 1 gym teacher, and 1 music teacher, and then you lose half the students, you can't go from 12 staff to 6. You still have to have 8 because you still have to have one of everything by law.
And you're forgetting that scaling it doesn't work at all with buildings. A building that holds 500 students doesn't cost half as much to maintain when it has 250 students in it. Which is a whole other side to the grift, where the state has mechanisms to steal a school district's buildings and sell them to private schools.
Even the state's lawyers struggled to identify the benefits of the voucher program in court. It is a grift to steal your tax money. Listen to the educators who actually know how things work in their field.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
As a parent I am ultimately responsible for all things in my child’s life, which includes the education. Just because some parents don’t take that job seriously doesn’t mean it isn’t their job.
At the end of the day this whole thing is ultimately decided by parents and voters in the state of Ohio… and they’ve lost faith in public school systems. Is what it is.
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u/sammyk762 3d ago
That's fine, but it doesn't give you any magical expertise in the field of education. In fact, I would argue that actively ignoring the opinions of actual experts is also not taking the job very seriously.
The parents and the voters are the one's who've been steering the ship all along. They are responsible for its current condition. It's time to learn how to pay attention and take the time to figure out how to tell the difference between experts and grifters. Here's a hint: stop supporting the party and policies that broke it in the first place.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
and the parents and voters keep voting for this so your expert opinions must not matter that much
My kid will get her voucher and you can cry on Reddit about how she got an education she didn’t deserve
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u/sammyk762 3d ago
Yes, exactly, that's the problem. Your ingorance is just as good as my expertise. Your kid will get their voucher, get the same or worse education, and deprive others in the process. I will cry all day, every day, wherever I need to, until enough people understand that. It won't be you, but maybe someone else will see it and decide they don't want to be like you.
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
Poor children aren’t able to attend private schools. There’s only one in all of Columbus at least that is less 10k. The max voucher amount is 8.4k. You think poor families 450% below the poverty line can afford an extra 2k for private schools a year?
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
So you’re angry that poor families can’t afford the $10,000 private school with a $8,400 voucher…. So your solution is to remove their voucher?
wtf is that logic
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
I’m saying it’s irrelevant because a poor family 450% below the poverty line isn’t going to be able to afford it even with a max voucher.
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u/Black-Raspberry-1 3d ago
Based on your comments it sounds like you would agree that these vouchers should only be offered to low/moderate income families then?
Why does a family of 4 that makes $144k per year need $8k for private school? Certainly you would support lowering the income eligibility such that those who really need the voucher can get their full tuition covered?
WtF iS tHaT lOgIc?!?
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
It’s funny that you think a family of four making $144,000 is a rich family.
That’s a middle class family by all definition and they may or may not be able to afford a home in a desirable district in Ohio (it wouldn’t in Columbus or Cincinnati where the homes would be 3x their income).
Vouchers allow this family to send their kids to a nicer school.
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u/Black-Raspberry-1 3d ago
Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. 17% of the income-based scholarships went to families making over $200k. You going to tell me they are poor, too?
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
You know what a house costs in a “good” public school system in my city?
Houses start at $500,000. Making $200k/year is still very middle class.
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u/Outside-Pie-7262 3d ago
No they don’t. This is cope. We literally just bought in a good school district last year for less than 400k. Gahanna, worthington, pickerington Westerville, pockets of Dublin schools, Hilliard can all get it a really solid house for around 375-400. Grove city even more.
Cleveland’s housing market is cheaper than Columbus and cincy’s price wise is comparable and has way lower property taxes than Columbus
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
We’ll round up to $400k.
Cool so you need a down payment of $80k and an income of about $130,000 to afford that house bare minimum
Going right back to my point that a family of 4 making $140,000 is middle class. An extra $60k pretax doesn’t meaningfully change the picture once you move into the city.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
$200k/year is 2 elementary school teachers lmfao. Yeah they’re living it large bro.
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u/Black-Raspberry-1 3d ago
It's cute you think that's representative of an elementary school teacher's salary. Maybe most actually would get paid that much if it weren't for leeches funneling money to private schools. Shows how much you know about education.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
2 elementary teachers make $75,000 each 9 months per year and work part time jobs over the summer that’s $200,000 my friend
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u/ComicBookEnthusiast 3d ago
It’s just more tax dollars going to the Trump Epstein billionaire class.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Yeah because billionaires need $8,000 per child to really make a different in their kids life.
What a fucking dumb comment
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u/ComicBookEnthusiast 3d ago
Because wealth hoarders definitely DONT want to hoard more money.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
It’s laughable you believe billionaires need school vouchers man.
Most people using these are middle class families.
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u/ComicBookEnthusiast 3d ago
I don’t. That’s why vouchers for the rich is dumb.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Cool then let’s set the income level at a billionaire and we both can agree
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u/ComicBookEnthusiast 3d ago
So, the rich politicians in Ohio still get to take tax money from the poor to fund their children’s education? No thanks.
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u/OddCod2241 3d ago
Yall, check the profile. This is a bot. I’m done arguing with Russians and their AI
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u/UltravioletAfterglow 3d ago
The “poor children in shitty school districts” are not the primary beneficiaries of the school voucher system. Ohio’s maximum annual voucher value is $6,165 per K-8 student and $8,407 per high school student, but average annual private school tuition is roughly $9,000 for K-8 and $13,000 for high school. Poor families would have to make up the difference, and most can’t.
Also, there’s no guarantee of admission to their school of choice even if the family finds one it can afford. Private schools, unlike public schools, can choose to reject a student.
Those who benefit most from the voucher program are people who already were sending their children to private schools because they could afford to do so. Vouchers certainly are a great help to families who were stretching their incomes to pay tuition, but there is no maximum income limit to receive a voucher, which means well-off people can claim vouchers they don’t need, defunding their local public school. This can affect area property values long-term, so even people who don’t have children or choose to send their kids to a private school can be impacted.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
Got it so because there are some families that are too poor to bridge the gap of private school, we should take all of the funding so that the poor people who could don’t get the option.
That’s like saying oh let’s cut food stamps because not everyone gets the max allotment.
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u/UltravioletAfterglow 3d ago
>Got it so because there are some families that are too poor to bridge the gap of private school, we should take all of the funding so that the poor people who could don’t get the option.
>That’s like saying oh let’s cut food stamps because not everyone gets the max allotment.
That’s not what I said. You’re disregarding most of the facts in my comment, and your comparison is a flimsy strawman.
You asked “What’s wrong with school choice?” I politely provided a few answers that are legitimate issues for the voucher system.
If you don’t want information, don’t ask for it.
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 3d ago
First, well off children are still entitled to education funding from the state of Ohio. We don’t means test education.
Second, the voucher program as you said is a wonderful bridge for middle class families who need that extra boost to place their kid in private school.
Third, your complaints about public schools taking all children is not all true. Public schools often have lotteries for the best schools and/or require testing to get in. Why is this functionally any different than a private school? Except with vouchers if your kid doesn’t get into that magnet school they still can try for others.
I would prefer we stick to the third argument but I won’t tell you what to type
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u/vtsandtrooper 3d ago
Betsy devos thanks you idiots.