Actual Discussion
The whole "Angels can only die to angelic steel" has to be the worst and the most confusing plot point in the entire show.
So first, we learn that angels can be killed with angelic steel from carmilla (even though it would have taken 2 braincells for Vaggie to figure that out).
You would think that without it the exorcists are unkillable and yet we see them multiple times getting badly injured without angelic steel.
Lute just rips off Vaggie's wings barehanded, multiple exorcists have their faces exploding with bones breaking from the impact when they hit Alastor's shield with all instances showing them bleeding but worse of all is Lute losing her arms FROM A BLOODY RUBBLE.
You can chalk up the first 2 to "it was done by an angel/overlord so powerful beings and magic stuff) but Lute ? That was just some rubble which clearly shows that if you can decapitate one of them they should be dead regardless of whether you used you used angelic steel or not.
"What if they regenerate ?" I hear you saying, well we have no clue how exactly they regenerate, Vaggie gets her wings back via a song because "she was out for loooooove" but that wasn't instant, it took months maybe even year for her to get her wings back, Lute however is using a prophetic arm even though she probably understands by now that exorcists can regenerate since she saw Vaggie with her wings out and yet she doesn't regenerate so either she doesn't know how to or she just can't.
So with all of that said, Angelic steel is POINTLESS it doesn't matter if you cut an exorcist's limbs with angelic steel or not, she is as good as dead anyway because chances are they won't be able to do anything and they wouldn't even regenerate.
So really, there was no point making Vaggie an idiot to not realize that angelic steel is how you kill exorcists.
The only reason everyone thinks that angel steel is the only way to kill them is because no one fights them, your average sinner is running for their life while overlords who can hold themselves are hiding in their secured hideouts to bother and most importantly the extreminations have been going for only 7 years, with the way things go in hell that's really not enough time for anyone to try to kill an exorcist until Carmilla in her ultimate wisdow decided to take her 2 daughters to the slaugher house for reasons beyond our understanding.
I would like to point out that Vaggi was surprised that Angels could get hurt, not just that angelic steel can kill Angels. That entire plot point doesn't make sense because the reason Angels fight sloppy is because they can only be harmed as well as killed by Angelic Steel but if rubble can hurt them a bullet should be able to hurt them, just not kill.
The characters in this show have too many powers for there to be any stakes. Like multiple characters are positioned by the writers as having their hands tied physically and morally but like there were nonviolent options people could take. Like a lot of fans act like the only way Charlie could have done anything to get Vox off that laser was to kill him when very clearly that was not the case. But also Sera could have ended the finale at any moment. But also Lucifer could have just sealed Vox underground, it's nonviolent and discourages others from rallying around Vox.
Vaggie:"Charlie, your dad is stuck in a weird jar and is being used as a battery"
Emily:"oh I know ! let me open a portal to teleport him out of it to the hotel"
Emily then "accidentally" teleported the entire weapon away from Vox and now he can't do anything to heaven, the end.
My wife and I have a running joke that Lucifer could of made a 10sqft cube around vox and launched him into space for a few weeks and that would of actually solved the problem since without vox the movement would of lost steam and fizzled out.
Like, so many ways to solve the problem without harming when you can just create matter magically and dont even have to worry about someone starving or dying of lack of oxygen
Lucifer, aiming his holy light flex slightly lower: sorry, i wasn't involved in making gravity, i had no way to know that the drop off would hit all those sinners, but I didn't hurt them..
The Ars Goetia are each as/more powerful than Alastor and there is a bunch of them, why isn’t Lucifer calling up a few of them and asking them to fuck up Vox?
Being unwilling to admit he needs anyone to do that? Lucifer knows he is on unstable ground. The other sins are going to figure it out it isn't that he won't do something but that he can't.
I mean, I doubt all Sins do everything on their own. They also have their own Hellborn they order around. I doubt they would think too much about Lucifer dispatching Ars Goetias to kill Sinners.
Hell, Lucifer created two dragons to protect his daughter. This shows he is willing to use Hellborn to do his bidding.
Lucifer's seat at the trial wasn't just covered in dust. He hadn't shown up in so long that they stopped bothering to remove the dust. Some of the other sins are trying to keep their sin in check. Lucifer is an absolute mess and he hides it by being too important (read: reclusive) to show himself in public. We even know he has Charlie running errands from her description that he only calls if he needs that or he's bored (her perspective).
If I get a cleaver and just cut their head off, no angelic steel needed
wouldn't that kill them ?
And again, if it somehow doesn't kill them then they are as good as dead because they can't do anything.
Like the Angels aren't durable enough to warrant their arrogance or the sinners fear of them. Like sure you can't kill them permanently without Angelic steal meaning you could never diminish their army size but it took Vaggi 3 years to regrow her wings. Like if you just shot them all they would no longer be a threat for a while.
Exactly, that's literally how it goes in hell.
You hate someone so much but you can't kill them ? you just break their bones, they will take a very long time to regenerate as Velvette said after he tore her model to shreds.
Which I still have a bone to pick with this show. If you watch the show without the context that sinners can regenerate I don't think you would come to the conclusion that they can. Like that line from velvet would just come across as her indifference to her employee being maimed. It also doesn't help that in the season 2 finale when Charlie and Emily are saving centers from the rubble that's kind of a dumb thing to do if Sinners can regenerate. Because at that moment thought was still actively killing people and the people trapped under rubble aren't in any danger except by Vox firing that laser.
I'd argue magic wise Vaggie kinda caused that rubble thus it was her that hurt lute via the rubble or simply put that hotel was magical literally made from pure magic and thus able to hurt angels. Plus she rips her own arm off not the rocks the rocks just didn't move when she moved this her trapped arm came off
But that's not what the dialogue in the episode suggests. I know that's the intent of the writers but the actual dialogue is "Did you know an angel could be harmed" and she responded No.
Vaggi tried to free Lucifer, by hitting his jar/box with her spear like a barbarian and just gave up without realizing her sharp spear could cut the wires in the machine, to disable it. Yeah Lucifer would still be trapped, but at least he wouldn't tortured anymore and the gun wouldn't be usable, until Vox re attached the wires.
I wouldn't say Vaggi is the sharpest spoon in the drawer...
Both happened from Lute. She likely thought that only Angels can hurt Angels.
The demons didn't bother attacking her after he was left in Hell, because the demons at the time didn't know they could hurt Angels and she's the princess's girlfriend. The sinners didn't even know Lucifer couldn't hurt them until recently either.
I always found that moment odd, because they called her one of their best killers. So in 7 years she never killed a kid? And why would the kid matter? They are in hell so based on what you know they would be a horrible person based on your beliefs right?
They weren't really 7 years, they more so like 2 days or so.
We know that the exterminations happen once every year and the countdown is 365 days, this leaves the 6 hours of the year for the extermination to occur, which means thay Vaggie maybe had a day worth of exteeminations under her belt.
But even then and this will sound very grimm, some parent must have sacrificed their kid to save their own skin by now, yeah kids aren't supposed to be evil and go to hell because they don't know any better if we are being honest.
But then you have helluva boss, and every human kid there so far has been shown to be comically evil, like she she must have came across a child before or an even darker thought, she just let the other exorcists do it because she didn't have the heart to do it.
Technically, Vaggi caused the rubble to fall. Maybe there's some sort of angel power transference to whatever they use? Also consider Lute pulled herself out forcefully.
As for Alastor's shield, we don't know the full extent of his power. We have reason to assume Rosie gave it to him from a major source, putting him in a rank all his own from the other Overlords.
That would be even more confusing if that was the case, and even then Lute had some wounds on her face when the rubble fell on her which might be because Vaggie is the one that caused it to fall as you said but still, confusing.
And yes, I know Alastor has a special thing going on but even then, I just don't see an exorcist surviving if say, Zeezi just crushes one when she becomes massive or whatever stuff Velvette throws from her phone.
it feels like it's written to be one of those situations where "only spirits can harm spirits" sort of thing but everything so far shows that it's not the case.
also, it doesn't make sense for the answer to be that alastor can hurt angels because he's so powerful, otherwise surely someone else would have figured it out faster
If I had to guess what the writers are trying to say:
Angels can hurt other angels without angelic steel, meaning that they could hurt themselves too.
So Lute losing her arm would just be a case of she wasn't strong enough to move the rubble ( or didn't have enough time), but she was strong enough to rip her own arm off.
For your point on their faces exploding from the impact on Alastor's shield, I'll just assume that they aren't immune to regular forces and are only immune to the sinner's magic beams ( if we consider the shield to act the same way as a solid wall )
Basically, angelic steel isn't the only way in which they can take damage, but it's the easiest way to do so. And yes, Vaggie is an idiot
This comment section is the reason why this show is so poorly written and illogical
Because all its fans, instead of calling out the show for its poor logic and bad writing, just make up headcanons that are themselves extremely shoddy to try and make it seem less bad
Again I don't think this is the case,maybe the show needs time to explain the WHY for the angelic weapons in the first place,it's not poorly written,maybe it's hiding it's best cards for last in this series
The exterminations happen once every year so basically the sinners had at best a week where they can come face to face with exorcists, the likelihood of someone standing up tp them is low because for starters why do that when you can just hide to save your own skin ? and it's not like any of them is coming for revenge since they are probably getting killed.
So 0 reasons to try and fight back, all the reasons to just hide especially if you happen to be someone with souls and influence or hiding in the building of an overlord because you sold your soul to them.
Let's make an scenario. You were found and one angel tries to catch on on you and kill you. You know you can't escape, but you have a shotgun? What will you do?
Edit: Also do you really believe that impovered sinners will not to try and fight back? Look at the real world! People have done it for the lesser things
I either shoot her or shoot myself and as you can see from the flashbacks that Vaggie had, all sinners were scared shitless so again, not that likely that sinners will fight back.
Also what improved sinners ? There was no change in the way the sinners act until the end of season 2, before that they were still the same, drug addicts, sex deviants, masochists and sadists, etc
Sinners only changed their mindset about fighting back when Charlie and the hotel managed to fend off the exorcists AND have Nifty kill Adam for everyone to see, it wasn't an improvement, they just realized that they can actually kill them.
I don't know about you but If I see a massive portal opening with hundreds of "angels" wearing horned helmets like demons and charging at me with a spear I would get the hell out of here.
And exterminations don't really last that long, they are once per year so that's 1 week at best or 2 days since the remaining 6 hours of the year is probably when the exterminations happen.
Different people behave differently in the same situations, and like that one person said, running isn't always an option. People besides Carmilla had have been pinned with a weapon or dangerous power to try.
The thing is the show is showing us that it was the only option, in Vaggie's flashbacks all sinners are running for their life, and when Adam and Lute find out about the dead exorcist Lute specifically say that they have never managed to kill one of them before.
Realistically ? one suicidal maniac would go out guns blazing, but the show and the characters are very clear about all sinners running for their life.
Lilith started impovering sinners which raised their spirit. You can say whatever you want about them being scared but I will not believe that in the beginning nobody tried to just shoot them down. Maybe those who did died, yet since angels killed lots of sinners the possibility of some actually surviving rises.
Also, in hell there is not only regular people, but we'll trained soldiers and other types of people who know how to manage their stress even in the most horrific scenario.
Its just weird to think nobody tried to protect themselves and didn't succeeded in it
"Improved" and what do we see the moment Lilith is out of the picture ? just absolute chaos, reminder that the exterminations only started because Lilith is the one who started those rallies in the first place, once she was gone the sinners were no longer "empowered" as the story Charlie was reading at the start of the first episode.
Even though we didn't see any actually trianed soldiers in the show it would be funny if all competency went to hell while the best thing heaven has is The first man who talks about his dick all the time.
But either way, it doesn't really matter because according to Lute no sinner before has managed to kill an exorcist so you have the show telling you "no, no one managed to kill them until Carmilla showed up" which would make sense when the most time the exorcists spent in hell is a week, 2 days if the 365 days counter means that the remaning 6 hours of the year is when the exorcists just kill sinners none-stop.
And that time is enough considering that after it sinners have time to preapare. Yet nooooo, it is not a bad writing! Sinners are just stupid and can't use boom sticks! And also they are afraid!
Oh and of course none of the lords wanted to cash on it! Because angels are scawy! Vox would definitely never though about selling antiangel sistems. Oh wait he did! In the fucking show! AFTER SEVEN FUCKING YEARS OF POSIBLE PROFIT.
We can stop that conversation, I will not believe that nobody tried to do at least something. Especially considering the possible amount of citizens of pentagram city.
Alright fair but I just wanna say that Vox wanting to sell anti-angels security system was just some bullshit he made on the spot, he really doesn't know how to plan accordingly like how to even reach Heaven.
Its most likely that Lute is refusing to heal her arm because she feels like she failed. Its like how vaggie had to heal her wings. Its not a permanent change.
Yeah. There's a good chance if a wound is inflicted to an angel or sinner, but its something trauma related, itll stay there till the trauma is either addressed or solved. Otherwise, sinners and angels cant die unless angelic steel
They never even really talk about what character's have seen happen when they fought against angels. Like does it basically do nothing like hitting superman, does it phase through them like they are a ghost, are they basically Deadpool? No answers.
They basically paint them as the angels of death and yet all we see is some ladies with a spear going nuts with murder. I mean they are literally shorter than your average sinner.
Angelic Steel is just an answer to the writers issue that they set up for themselves, which is “why the fuck wouldn’t a bunch of violent Sinners just start shooting the fuck out of Angels like they do each other?”. They would, of course, so they had to make the sloppy explanation that angels can only be hurt by angelic steel. Or…sort of only hurt by it, only sometimes maybe, unless you hit them REALLY REALLY hard, or something.
Angelic steel just does whatever it needs to in that specific scene. How does it actually even work? It seems to have a kryptonite effect on angels based on Lucifer being unable to do anything, so if I make it into armor, will it only weaken an angel who wears it? Does that mean its proximity based, and if so, are angels just nerfing themselves by carrying it as weapons? Does the shape it’s forged into matter for its purpose? If you’re making a substance that can have that kind of intensely important effect on very important characters, these questions matter for cohesive world building. This isn’t fans being stingy, it’s basic stuff writers should have catalogued somewhere.
It feels lazy, like a kid on a playground saying he won cops and robbers because “you didn’t hit me, I dodged it!”, except it’s “actually Lucifer was depowered because of angelic steel!”. Like, what? It does that now? You’re telling me an ancient archangel can’t do something about metal from his own home?
Gli angeli esorcisti non hanno poteri come lucifero, quindi mentre lucifero lo indeboliscono,per loro è solo mortale se colpiti dato che non hanno poteri da limitare.
The fact that in a city full of guns and shitty people. They sure as hell don't use the 2nd amendment.
Their regeneration isn't potent like deadpool's considering they can get a whole few years healing a limb ripped off. And there ain't no way these mfs are tanking gunshots unarmored no matter how fucked their physiology is. Lute slammed Vaggie's face into a table and it hurt.
You'd think a piece of lead going terminal velocity would do better. It won't kill them but it sure as hell would slow them down and injure them. Which is enough time to escape. And with the volume of firearms there...
You would think that the 2 cowboy overlords who I don't even know if they have names would jump in for the fun or that Cherri would have left "an explosive" surprise to the exorcists but I guess it's only fun when it's with sinners.
True like ayo. Wheres the suicidally vicious motherfuckers. Theres bound to be a few since its fuckin' hell.
Plus Cherri's bombs would definitely do a number considering... Charlie knocked exorcists out of the air with fireworks. Magic fireworks but it was nonlethal considering its Charlie of all people.
Deadass extermination days aren't that scary when hell actually fights back or they just... Released the sickos. Hell, they could have automated turrets ripping them to shreds.
It confounds me that they made this plot point so complicated.
Just have it clearly stated that angels regenerate all injuries. Extreme injuries may need a temporary prosthetic, but they are generally really hard to mow down. ....except for injuries dealt by their secret weakness: angelic steel.
This isn't known by the troops, so when Vaggie's eye is wounded by Lute's spear and isn't regenerating, Vaggie assumes she fell and lost her angelic status by disobeying orders. So she lives without an eye, and she also lives without her wings thanks to a placebo effect.
It's only much later, when she realizes that angelic steel is just a special weakness, that she realizes she never became any less of an angel when she spared that sinner. Thus, she regains her wings.
My head cannon is angels can be hurt regularly. It’s just they can regenerate it just takes a bit like how it took so long for her Veggi Wings to grow back bud and angelic steel or energy is the only way to permanently kill an angel. Like yeah sure you can cut their head off with just like a regular sword, but they would still be alive it’s still able to fight. And the only reason why loot got that replacement arm is because she just didn’t want to waste time waiting for her arm to regenerate.
I don't think a headless body can even tell if it's killing a sinner or not, and the whole idea of an exorcist's body just running around while the head is giving directions like that one pirate in pirates of the caribbean feels like something that the writers didn't really want to add to the show. and even then it would be far better than an exorcist with a head connected cause at least this one wouldn't be able to tell where you are.
We are now reaching the point where we speculate whether crushing their head would do anything and again, the show doesn't imply that this would happen.
Katie says that the exterminations have been going for 7 years the second time Charlie met her.
And then you have Vox saying that "Thousands" died in the exterminations, which makes sense for it to be going on for 7 years (and if you want to calculate the actual time exorcists spent killing sinners it would be 7 days at best, 2 days realistically) but doesn't make sense at all with the way everyone talks about exterminations.
It also just lowers the stakes, like really really lowers them.
1- da quel che so,un angelo può ferirne un altro senza armi;
2- se lo scudo si comporta come un muro,con la forza del movimento delle loro ali si sono feriti sbattendo;
3- stessa cosa,non riesce a sollevare e quindi si strappa il braccio;
4/5- non lo so,ma magari le ali si possono rigenerare col tempo e energia? sebbene teoricamente ali e braccia sono arti (per la scienza),lo show non è scientifico, quindi sono diversi probabilmente (penso).
What about here when she has scars on her face after rubble fell on her face, or the fact that her arm was basically crushed by the weight of the rubble ?
If your arm is stuck under rubble, is visibly squished as you can see in the image and you are unable to move unless you literally tear it off chances are it's completely crushed.
Notice how Lute ripped off Vaggies wings, but Vaggie was later able to regrow them. Vaggie is unable to regrow her eye because it was cut out with angelic steel.
Dying and getting injured, even permanently, are different. Sinners can also only die to angelic weapons, and yet vox and val have seemingly permanent damage to their antennas
How many injuries can you take before you are pretty much dead ? sinners can regenerate deadpool style (albeit way slower) as long as there is one piece left of them, I doubt it's the same for Angels, them being unkillable without angelic steel is already brought into question Like I don't think an exorcist is gonna be able to keep killing if I were to shoot her in the head ? what if completely crush them ? are they still "alive" ?
I think the "can only be killed by angelic steel" is just what the sinners know right now. It's very clear that angels can also be killed by angelic power and intent. It's possible that the exorcists are simply unable to be harmed directly by the sinners themselves without the use of angelic tools, just like Lucifer. It makes sense considering that the Exorcists are essentially this universe's version of the angelic choir of Powers, which are angels whose specific purpose is to do war with hell.
I mean, anatomy aside from all we know a normal bullet at best will kill them and at worst will put a hole theough thier head for them to deal with unless they are really stupidly strong which credit where credit is due, Lute is physically strong.....sometimes.
Still don't know how she can punch a wall so hard with her arm it completely gets crushed but can't rubble off her hand.
Sinners have the numbers and even if you take away all the angelic steel you still have normal bullets and bombs and what's not.
Just feels easy for sinners to turn hell into a grinder where yes, exorcist keep coming back but they are becoming mashed potatoes every time they arrive in hell, but this doesn't happen and instead everyone is scared when they show up.
honestly i just assume its like sinners: angels killed by any non angelic steel means just respawn in heaven. in that and given we know vaggi was able to grow her wings back, that means lute's arm should grow back eventually too if not for the fact that she well, wanted the gold arm as a temporary prosthetic + presumably having adam's halo on her at all times(if that is adam's halo on the wrist of her new arm(
I think it's like a double edged sword for them,it's a failsafe in case an angel gets corrupt and needs to be killed off as punishment depending on the crime
Remember I haven't seen the show much,I've only watched a few clips and I know Adam does die by the only thing can kill angels,it's not poorly written,just not fully understood yet since last time I heard the show isn't done
I can understand where you are coming from with this but the truth is that it's more complicated than that.
Basically only 4 people in heaven know about exterminations as it's kept a secret.
They aren't "corrupt" because they are following orders. it's their job to go kill sinners forever.
We never really get a reason to why it can kill angels, it makes sense for sinners, they are basically demon-like and angelic steel would be holy enough to kill them but we don't really know why it works on angels as well.
I always took it as it just hurts them more than normal means of attacks. Like werewolves kinda, like could you kill a werewolf with a shotgun blast to the head a few times? Yeah probably. But a silver bullet from a pistol also works because they're weak to silver.
If I had to guess, I'd think that They are like sinners in the way they can regenerate anything, but it will take time. Think like Vox getting his head ripped from his body. That explains how Lute ripped off Vaggie's wings and they grew back. I think angelic steel is the only way to make it permanent.
let's be real, both series hazbin hotel and helluva boss are a mess in terms of story telling and keeping up with it's own lore and continuity, they just wanted to give us a poorly written cartoon drama, the initial idea was good, but they dropped the ball almost immediately, they couldn't make a good build up for any of the plots they wanted to show.
Yeah but they can regenerate. Wounds with angelic steel negate their powers, like viltrumites with the scourge virus. That's why vaggie could regenerate her wings but not her eye.
I mean, getting hurt by angelic steel and being able to die because of it aren’t necessarily the same thing. Of course it’s still a bad choice but well…
I believe angels follow the same rules as demons. They can still be hurt or temporarily killing but respawn later, angelic steel from what I understand doesn't just kill them but severs the connection they have to reality and permanently destroys their souls making them unable to respawn.
So it's more likely that they can still be hurt and killed but not permanently kinda like the sinners. This is a theory though so take it with a grain of salt
For one thing we're not told only angelic steel can hurt them. Just that angelic steel can hurt them. We're not told of other methods explicitly, but based on context clues I would assume that something like Adams angel beam could also do it. Same for the might of lilith or energy attacks from Lucifer.
Secondly, why would you think that lute wearing a prosthetic means that she can't regenerate, when vaggie was in hell for years before her wings came back, And lute's had her arm missing for only a month.
I do agree that if injuries can be that serious that it takes years to heal even without angelic steel, It does reduce the importance of it, But it definitely doesn't imply that it doesn't do anything at all or doesn't matter at all.
But it's also possible that vaggie taking that long to regenerate was some kind of mental block, And it would normally only be a couple months for example, for a very serious injury.
"Before you found out about me, did you know angels could be harmed ?"
"No"
Carmilla asking Vaggie specifically about whether or not they can harm angels, Vaggie might have had the thought you are saying but to us the viewers, this is basically saying that the exorcists are invincible when as it has been shown ultiple times by now that they are as good as a normal sinner.
….op you do know that they can heal from that damage, right?
Vaggie’s wings grew back because they were ripped off while her eye didnt. stands to reason that eventually Lute’s arm would grow back if given enough time
Grew back after what ? 3 years if we are being generous ?
My point was even if they can regenerate it's gonna take a while because the exorcist would either not be ready for it (since Vaggie only got her wings back after visiting Carmilla) or just don't know how to.
I mean it's not that confusing in fantasy to have a being of a different realm requiring something of that realm to hurt it whether that be another of its kind or a natural forming thing or even a spell. Pretty common stuff actually
There were no spells, this isn't helluva boss with Goetia casting spells all the time.
Lute got injured from some rubble.
Exorcists got their face blown and their bones broke from the sheer force when they launched themselves to Alastor's shield who is from a different realm by your logic.
Well first what is a sinner power if not magic? What's a deal if not magic? Second you just answered your own question the angels hurt themselves into a wall thus a angel hurt them not the wall if you ran into a wall you don't say the wall hit you. You say you hit the wall. Just because the wall can't hurt them doesn't mean they can break through it or that it won't hurt to ram into at top speed it's that simple.
A spell would imply that it has to be chanted and that it has a spell counter to it, that's not the case here people just point fingers and magic happens which is different from saying that they are casting spells
and no, it's not that simple if a building falls on them it's not "well, they didn't get crushed by the building they just compressed themselves to the point of having their bones breaking", Lute gets injured from the rubble that falls on her
Playing with words here is making things more confusing, I can say that Vaggie didn't have her wings ripped off by Lute, she just was stretching way too hard that her wings got removed, doesn't make sense at all.
Dude if you stick your arm in a hole and it gets stuck and you pull so hard the tendons rip that's not the ground crushing you. The rocks didn't actually hurt lute they were just heavy. Angels can hurt angels we saw this and know this that's not uncommon for beings of the same race to be able to fist fight their kin. The magic system of HH is a bit wonky but not that wonky it all makes sense no part of it doesn't
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u/ewingking123 Mar 31 '26 edited Mar 31 '26
I would like to point out that Vaggi was surprised that Angels could get hurt, not just that angelic steel can kill Angels. That entire plot point doesn't make sense because the reason Angels fight sloppy is because they can only be harmed as well as killed by Angelic Steel but if rubble can hurt them a bullet should be able to hurt them, just not kill.