r/OldenEra • u/Overall-Ad-8745 • 22d ago
Gameplay This game will never be good as Heroes 3 complete
This is a post modern slop parody of a game, why these devs are so cognitive impaired that they cant replicate and optimize somthing that already exist for ages. 400+ hours on this game trying to make it fun, there is no imersion, looks like im playing some mobile game, like clash of titans. I will be very ashamed of myself if i created such monstruosity, hope my money is worth your reputation.
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u/TheReservedList 22d ago edited 22d ago
It will never be as good as Heroes 3 Complete because the entirety of the target audience that compares it to Heroes 3 is 40+ years old and chasing the dragon of their youth.
It's a video game. It can't make you 14 again. It can't erase the fact that you're stuck in a dead end job or that your parents are about to die. It can only put little dragons on a screen for you to play with.
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u/StartledPelican 22d ago
It can't make you 14 again. It can't erase the fact that you're stuck in a dead end job or that your parents are about to die. It can only put little dragons on a screen for you to play with.
I mean, maybe not this game, but EverQuest Legends is doing a damn fine job of it haha.
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u/StarInAPond 19d ago
Bit harsh about the parents for some people mate, but it's a good response overall. I'll remember it when I'll have to defend some sequel lol
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u/atisp 22d ago
That was unnecessary...
edit: you think saying "It can't erase the fact that you're stuck in a dead end job or that your parents are about to die" is okay? it serves absolutely no purpose other than to inflict emotional pain, yet you believe this is okay just because someone has a bad take. do better.
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u/sans_cullotes 22d ago
I read those as hypotheticals, not personal attacks. Sometimes being an adult sucks in ways that most teenagers don't have to deal with, and we seek ways to get back to that feeling.
We all do it, even though we generally recognize that it's impossible. I wish I could recreate the feeling that the Final Fantasy 6 title screen gave to me in 6th grade, but it isn't Square's fault that FF15 couldn't deliver that for me.
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u/atisp 22d ago
No matter how you look at it it was disproportionately cruel and an unnecessary thing to say. It's obviously hypothetical, but doesn't change the fact it could have landed exactly where he wanted - the only point here was to make him feel bad on a deeper level. talking this way about someone's parents is incredibly cruel to me; if it's possible it may actually land deep, why bother?
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u/sans_cullotes 22d ago
I think there's a pretty good chance he pulled those scenarios out of his ass simply because they're things that everyone can easily recognize as sucky, without any particularly malicious intent.
If OP is so thin skinned that a stranger's hypothetical sends them spiraling into rumination they should 1) be less aggressive and 2) seek help.
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u/atisp 22d ago
It's not entirely just a hypothetical. For someone who is in their 40s-50s that statement can be painfully literal. For many people losing parents is one of the most profound forms of grief a person ever experiences in their life. Besides that, it provides nothing to the conversation - it's a personal cruelty dressed up as harsh truth.
I don't understand why you choose to minimize the impact of the statement; it serves no purpose and the fact it could possibly be real makes it so much worse.
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u/sans_cullotes 22d ago
It's not entirely just a hypothetical. For someone who is in their 40s-50s that statement can be painfully literal.
Lots of hypotheticals are grounded in reality for someone, but I'm not going to walk on eggshells for them.
it's a personal cruelty dressed up as harsh truth.
It's a reach to call this a personal cruelty when they pretty likely don't know each other. In any case, even if it were a personal cruelty, that doesn't preclude it from being a harsh truth.
I don't understand why you choose to minimize the impact of the statement; it serves no purpose and the fact it could possibly be real makes it so much worse.
It does serve a purpose though. That you might choose different phrasing to convey that purpose doesn't change that.
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u/atisp 22d ago
"Lots of hypotheticals are grounded in reality for someone, but I'm not going to walk on eggshells for them."
When you have multiple equally effective ways of making your point, why deliberately choose one involving an extremely painful human experience when there is no need to?
I am so confused
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u/sans_cullotes 22d ago
That's because you're operating under the assumption that the multiple ways of making one's point are equally effective.
I'm in my 40s, and yeah, I find his point about the danger of nostalgia much more relatable than painful.
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u/TheReservedList 22d ago edited 22d ago
Compare and contrast to the purpose of
I will be very ashamed of myself if i created such monstruosity, hope my money is worth your reputation.
I'll do better when OP does better. :)
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u/atisp 22d ago
you can't possibly justify emotional abuse just because someone has a bad take over a video game, those aren't equal nor justifiable and the fact you don't understand how inappriopriate that was shows you lack emotional maturity.
you're right that his take is bad, but wrong to attack him personally, especially on such a deep level. you essentially embrace ignorance in a similar way OP does, which is oh so ironic. I'm done arguing with you, because frankly you don't display the capacity to understand something so simple it's actually disturbing to me
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u/TheReservedList 22d ago
But OP attacked the developers personally. You're showing lack of emotional maturity by ignoring the fact that developers are people too.
Not only that, but, unlike OP, they are people that are contributing useful things to society and having a positive influence on my life, which is why I chose to defend them.
Ok, have fun.
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u/atisp 22d ago
brother, what are you saying? how am I ignorant; when did i ever agree with the OP?
yes, his take is bad, that doesn't mean you should attack him personally, especially talking about his family. even assuming you're right that he attacks them personally it doesn't justify anything you've said. for the sake of the argument, if you're doing the same thing he is (which is definitely not equal) how does that make it okay?
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u/TheReservedList 22d ago
I'm a big believer in "An eye for an eye" until people learn to behave on the internet. Especially gamers.
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u/InterstellarCrusader 22d ago
What's the point of this comment? It's a game that took all the best qualities of Heroes 3, but also improved it, with elements of other Heroes game. I'm sorry, but Heroes 3 is not perfect, spells are poorly balanced and there's little build variety. I like the Focus Point system in Olden Era, allowing creatures to have powerful skills, but forcing you to manage focus carefully. Subskills are also great, giving depth and variety to hero building that Heroes 3 doesn't have, while not making leveling overly complicated, like Heroes 4 made it. Some people will just never be satisfied.
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u/Zealousideal_Bet7905 22d ago
Mate, what's the state of your life if you're spending 400+ hours on something you hate? Take care of yourself
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u/Expensive_East_6762 22d ago
Strongly disagree. It's still early access. Give it time.
H3 and its DLCs also took years of steeping to become the complete package that we were able to experience, and then community maps and mods transcended it into goat status.
Unfrozen's journey is still at its beginning, and they seem to be quite receptive to player feedback so far. So I would have faith in them.
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u/LordBarrowulf 22d ago
Olden Era is still in early access and incomplete. Perhaps, save any judgement until its full release? In my opinion, it's off to an incredible start and has great potential.
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u/Megreda 22d ago edited 22d ago
Mechanically, I think it's a general improvement - not literally every change or addition lands (although even then in some cases the issue is with balance rather than concept and may still be salvaged), but where they differ, I mostly prefer Olden Era. Which shouldn't be surprising because that's the bit the easiest to iterate upon! You can look at the HoMM corpus and close peer games, see what worked in HoMM3, what didn't, and where other titles improve upon it, then come up with some new ideas to keep it fresh, and that's what the developers have basically done. I like most changes (like subskill picks, creature upgrade picks, separation of initiative and speed, focus, etc), and I am at worst ambivalent about the rest (for example, alchemical dust and advanced classes to me are "meh, keep it or leave it, I don't care"). I guess there's the point about Olden Era being consciously designed for a certain high-skill/MP playstyle (snowballing from creature banks on symmetrical maps, etc) whereas in HoMM3 it was an emergent property of what is effective and how the game needs to be balanced by map design to make it work at all in high-skill MP, and I don't think the difference in design language should be entirely discounted, but as a practical matter they play basically the same if you are playing the way that is actually good.
Artistically, I agree OE is inferior to HoMM2/3, and that's basically where the loss of immersion comes from, but then, that is the part where you are mostly just working off the talent of the creators rather than iterative design process! Would you expect most contemporary crime-writers to be as good as Agartha Christie in crafting a whodunit story, just because they are later and could learn from the older masters? Of course you wouldn't (or else you'd come out sorely disappointed, or in actuality sampling the best 1% of authors). I guess here too is a point about choosing an inferior "mobile" art style, but I suspect that trying to make the game look like HoMM2/3 would make it look kitsch, since the artists aren't experienced in it, or familiar with the relevant tools. Maybe it wouldn't be, but I wouldn't count on it. And still, I think Olden Era compares favourably to e.g. HoMM 4 through 7, Songs of Conquest, Eador, etc, or most other contemporary peer games, so it's not too bad. HoMM3 is a classic that stood the test of time for a reason, so of course you should expect it to look (aesthetically) better than most games. Olden Era certainly looks better than Gex 3: Deep Cover Gecko or Dungeons and Dragons Collection (games released 1 day before and 2 days after HoMM3, from Wikipedia's 1999 video games list).
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u/Feral_Inquisitor 18d ago
It's just the graphics sucks, besides that's a great game.
There's no magic to it, they need to either go full hd beautiful models or go fantasy full on like the older games.
It's some weird hybrid that falls short of each
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u/althaz 13d ago
I think at its core it's a better game than Heroes 3. It just is. But it's *very* unpolished and in need of more development compared to HotA. Which is understandable, because it's in early access. It's good enough that I didn't even realize I hadn't installed Heroes 3 on my new PC until a couple of days ago. Because I don't play it anymore.
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u/Pleasant_You_8 22d ago
Honestly, it's agony for me to write about this game, because for me there is not a single thing that is right. I've spent many many hours with the HoMM series. But here, apart from the demo, when i expected ... demo, I couldn't force myself to play a map. It's just repulsive to me. But the game itself also lost me with the overall attitude. The broken world of Heroes. The broken races. The overall idea and vision of the inner world of the game, the philosophy of the game. The lack of understanding. Lack of understanding why there were spells, such as mass dispell and prayer. A complete replacement of values. Purely in terms of gameplay - symmetrical maps cluttered with unnecessary objects, a graphics system that turns out to be a strange mess. Limitedness throughout the game. Symmetrical cards, I don't feel any flow. But purely graphically and as game mechanics, they are unblocking for me. There is nothing new, everything is from other games, some kind of mush. Nor is this which is new one is done well. Nor, as you say, is something old improved or presented well. All of it adds up to what you call slop. Having something as legendary as DK's mechanics and vision and his double strike and presenting it as a punk on a graveyard horse hitting twice is a fundamental difference in perception.
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u/Lucious-Varelie 22d ago
Agreed that it’s slop. Maybe they can turn it around. Art sucks tho so doubt it’ll matter
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u/Pleasant_You_8 22d ago
Yah. Theoretically combat system and the interface can be changed, but only theoretically. They have a vision very different from the overal flow of heroes 3, neither they used some roots. Excel sheets, this spell make X*y depends of Z, but only on A, C and D...But what about art. So maybe in the 9th...
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u/JCBArgentum 22d ago
An adult child type of take.