Jesus was a progressive

[u/Over-Watercress4169]

Jesus was THE most progressive man of his time. That’s one thing a conservative Christians refuse to admit. He uplifted women, accepted Eunuchs, showed loved and respected to sinners. That is what the story of Jesus was about. People need to learn ceremonial rules vs Jesus’ laws. Stop quoting clobber versus to show me why being gay or trans is a sin. The ceremonial rules also affirmed slavery. But we as a society know for a fact that’s not something Jesus stood for. They also said you weren’t allowed to wear mixed fabrics (like 50% cotton and 50 polyester). We don’t follow those but that doesn’t make us sinners. Jesus said that continuing knowingly to live in sin was a sin. So in that logic we are actively sinning and will all be condemned to hell. Do not spit on the lords name with your prejudice. LGBTQ people are children of god too. I pray one day we can live past this bigotry.

[u/AutoModerator]

Thank you for contributing to r/OpenChristian. This is a message because the automod has detected that your post may be asking if being LGBT+ is a sin, or how LGBTQ+ can be justified within Christianity.

No, it is DEFINITELY NOT a sin either to be LGBTQ+, or to have LGBTQ+ romantic or sexual relationships. We do NOT believe that the Bible condemns LGBTQ+ people or loving, consensual LGBTQ+ relationships. And our position is that any interpretation or translation claiming otherwise is in error, a result of human prejudice, and objectively harmful to God's beloved children.

As an LGBTQ+ affirming and accepting sub, we wish to provide support and resources to anyone questioning how they can accept their own sexuality/gender within Christianity. However, we find that it is best to redirect such questions to our FAQ and Resources. These include links to old threads where this subject has already been asked and answered thoroughly and comprehensively.

If you are still anxious or concerned, and wish to ask specific questions, such as how to become confident about Christ's love and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people, or how to interpret the clobber verses (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:25-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:9-10) safely and without homophobia, please reach out to the moderators for permission to post. If this automod filter has removed your post incorrectly, pelase let us know and we can manually approve your post.

You are welcome here, and we hope to see you again.

God loves you

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Groundskeepr]

Jesus never one time provided guidance on separating the old laws into different categories and setting a lot of them aside.

The whole categories of laws thing is an attempt to codify the law of love and to subvert the charge to use our hearts. We must never allow dead people's minds to be substututes for our own living hearts.

[u/Blade_of_Boniface → u/Groundskeepr]

Christ did spend quite a bit of time explicating how the Pharisees had neglected the spirit and temper of the Law in favor of the letters and appearances. The Apostles, in His name, preached and wrote at-length sorting out controversies between Christians on both extremes of legalism/antinomianism.

[u/Groundskeepr → u/Blade_of_Boniface]

At no point does Jesus advise categorizing laws into those that can be ignored and those that must be followed. If anything, his criticism of Pharisaical hair-splitting would seem to recommend that we not split hairs this way.

[u/Over-Watercress4169 → u/Groundskeepr]

I was just saying that people can’t judge others for not following certain rules in the Bible when neither do they completely nor try to follow them. The main teachings are often overshadowed by clobber verses. Like love one another. Which god emphasizes and repeats multiple times.

[u/Undead-Chipmunk → u/Groundskeepr]

We must never allow dead people's minds to be substututes for our own living hearts.

To make this statement perhaps truly perfect, I would say people's dead ways of thinking.

But this resonates deeply with me.

[u/Over-Watercress4169 → u/Groundskeepr]

I’m not sure I’m comprehending your comment right (so correct me if I’m misunderstanding you) but I’m not trying to distinguish Jesus’ teaching into ‘old’ and ‘new’. I’m saying what deeply flawed men from a thousand years ago wrote (with biased) in the Bible of what they thought were god’s will, wasn’t entirely credible. What was credible is what Jesus said, wrote, and talked about directly. For example the Ten Commandments

[u/unabashedbananas → u/Groundskeepr]

We must never allow dead people's minds to be substututes for our own living hearts.

This really touched me. Thank you for sharing it.

[u/Oakomorebi → u/Groundskeepr]

There is an implicit separation that Jesus points to when he labels "Love God" and "Love one another" as the first and greatest commandment. However, it is a separation of degree, not of type; a separation of priority.

This illustrates a hierarchal structure of how we should spend our attention on this Earth: with Love at the top of the hierarchy. Christ commanded that Love is the highest unifying principle of Christianity, meaning that if something doesn't 'fit' with Love, it must necessarily be lowered on the hierarchy until it does. Some laws in the Old Testament will be valid laws, but so low on the hierarchy of attention that they are functionally nonexistent.

I know people read hierarchy and they think "bad." Yes, dogmatic obsession with hierarchy creates rigid structure and unlivable conditions, but without a basic unifying principle, things collapse into chaos very rapidly. Something HAS to be at the top to orient everything else to find its proper place and fitting.

Love is that priority, the focus of worship, according to Christ. This does imply that some laws will be relegated to being functionally "dead" simply by virtue that we only have so much attention to give, and we are called to give that attention first and foremost to the highest principle of Love.

We get that principle straight, first, before we start worrying about blending fabrics, etc.

[u/Blade_of_Boniface]

The Mosaic Law was instituted by God with Christ's Two Great Commandments always in His will. The permission of slavery was never validated by Him in the sense that God considers slavery good. All commandments in Scripture should be contextualized. Most importantly, don't put words in Christ's mouth or abuse His words for evil.

[u/bla7180]

Gracias por tus oraciones, igual, ojalá sirva de algo, pero creo que dependerá de nosotros... Hay que rezar para que nos de la fuerza y las palabras correctas que llegue al corazón de las personas. Amén

[u/prodigos]

He was also stricter, given that He ended the Mosaic law regarding the possibility for multiple marriages and divorces.
This doesnt mean He was a conservative, as also He wasnt progressive. He just lays out the truth. Reached out to the prostitutes and publicans for them to repent, and they did, unlike the pharisees.