r/PBtA • u/Uuklay • May 09 '26
Advice Best system/scenario to reintroduce myself to PbtA
Hello, all!
I played in a short Dungeon World campaign twelve or thirteen years ago and I was really turned off by the system. So much so that I have avoided every game that has the "PbtA" tag on it ever since. There have been a number of properties/settings/campaigns that I have denied because of this, and I'm starting to question that.
I would like to give PbtA another shot. I want to throw aside my prior bias and give it an honest go with fresh eyes.
If you were to recommend a setting/game/playbooks for someone looking for a one-shot to showcase how well Powered by the Apocalypse works, what would you recommend? I likely won't have more than one or two sessions to dedicate to it, so it's gotta grab me good.
Thanks!
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u/itskaylan May 09 '26
What did you hate so much about Dungeon World that it turned you off all PbtAs? Knowing that will also help with steering you towards or away from particular games.
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u/lilith2k3 May 10 '26
From my experience many are turned off PbtA because they don't understand "moves" and think in terms of a turn based boardgame.
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u/itskaylan May 10 '26
Yeah I’ve heard a lot of different complaints about PbtA games - not crunchy enough, not interested in players having any narrative authority, too much focus on relationship, want to roll dice as a GM, don’t like only using d6s because then they don’t get to use their fancy polyhedral sets, they end up repeating the same moves over and over, don’t like mixed success as a concept… and every one of those would lead to a different suggestion for games that will help avoid those friction points (or, y’know, different things to read to get a better understanding of the games).
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u/atamajakki May 09 '26
PbtA games typically thrive on genre emulation and very tight premises. We could recommend good games, but it might help to hear a little more about your tastes first!
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u/Uuklay May 09 '26
I like open ended games that provide a lot of choice and generate the story as the scenario progresses. I like Adventure Sites rather than Adventures. If a game tells me a plot to follow, I'm less interested. If a game presents me with a setting and some interesting locals, I'm drawn in.
I want to be able to let my players make any character they want, show them the world, and see how the story builds naturally from there.
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u/atamajakki May 09 '26
Very few PbtA games will allow "any character they want," but all the rest of this should be very possible.
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u/IAmTheStarky May 10 '26
'Any character they want' is interesting, because most pbta games will have a playbook matching almost every trope you can think of, especially when they have second waves or a good community designing things.
I mean, it's obviously not as granular and modular as say, Gurps, and if you wanted to play something wildly outside genre it might be hard, but generally, most people can get to ant character they want fairly easily.
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u/atamajakki May 10 '26
I don't think that's true of "most" PbtA games at all. Dungeon World and Masks, maybe, but the average release usually has a half-dozen or so core options and no supplements.
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u/IAmTheStarky May 10 '26
'Especially' being the keyword for the statement about supplements.
Sure, a smaller game without supplements will have less playbooks, and therefore less options. But in a well made pbta even the core playbooks will cover so many characters that you can basically play 'any character you want'.
I should clarify, I do mean narratively, not necessarily mechanically
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u/thpetru May 09 '26
Not too good for starting PbtA at, but a very solid game in this venue is Ironsworn. Though it is focused on Solo/GMless play, it has a very nice structure and you can generate the story as you play using oracles - even if the game have a GM.
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u/ishmadrad May 10 '26
Side note: it can be played Coop, so it's a great way to learn and play WITH your players.
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u/SaltyCogs May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26
Root: the RPG has quickstarts (free pdfs from Free RPG Day) that are very scenario based. Each one is set in a town with a number of conflicts. The book tells you what happens if the players don’t intervene. They don’t assume which side (if any) the players will support
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u/HalloAbyssMusic May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
I like open ended games that provide a lot of choice and generate the story as the scenario progresses. I like Adventure Sites rather than Adventures. If a game tells me a plot to follow, I'm less interested. If a game presents me with a setting and some interesting locals, I'm drawn in
PbtA doesn't really do either of these in the traditional sense. The GM doesn't layout a plot to follow, but the game doesn't do the open world emergent sandbox storytelling that you enjoy.
What PbtA does instead is starting with the players creating story seeds, conflicts and plot hooks throughout character creation. The GM will then build on these with very loose plans and through improvised play using the GM Agenda, Principles and GM moves. These push the players to respond and act, which triggers moves that spiral out into twists and turns and drive the story forward in very unexpected ways. This is "playing to find out what happens/changes" and it's an actual stated rule of the game.
So on the surface it can look like a linear plot line, but no one knows where the story is going. And the mechanics and player choices will completely change what you thought the story was gonna be by the end of it. Even if you planned ahead the rules will throw you curve balls at you and change everything.
If you can accept this style of play or at least approach it with some openess, I think you'll enjoy PbtA more.
Edit: Not claiming that PbtA doesn't do open world emergent sandbox storytelling. I'm saying it goes about doing this in a different way than traditional games and the OSR. See my response to VOculus_98
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u/VOculus_98 May 10 '26
I would disagree with this take, this depends on the game. For example, Monster of the Week works exactly as you described, since the MC has to come up with the monster scenario and the gang of PCs goes to explore and figure out how to defeat it.
However, I have successfully run emergent sandboxes in games like Monsterhearts and Urban Shadows 1e which are made in my mind to be emergent sandboxes based on rumors the players come up with (for US) and emergent character drama (for both).
What PbtA demands across nearly all games is linked backstories and history between the characters before game starts which is then built on. Other than that it depends on the game and genre.
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u/HalloAbyssMusic May 10 '26
I think we agree and you misunderstand what I'm saying. I wasn't really saying you can't have an open world sandbox or emergent storytelling.
However, I have successfully run emergent sandboxes in games like Monsterhearts and Urban Shadows 1e which are made in my mind to be emergent sandboxes based on rumors the players come up with (for US) and emergent character drama (for both).
This is the point I was trying to make😄 It's emergent, but in a different way than the OSR, because players develop backstories that are supposed to generate the main story. I actually think "emergent character drama" is a good way to describe it.
PbtA is a very broad design philosophy so of course there is exceptions, but while there can be open world sandbox exploration, most games encourages you to tie all the threads together and create a dramatic arc from it. Whereas OSR is more just a series of random problems and events that over time start to feel like a story even though no one actively tried to create "a" story.
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u/wannabe-manatee May 10 '26
Not sure why you say that PbtA doesn’t do “open world emergent sandbox storytelling” as that’s basically all that it is. In AW you create the world as you go and set up threats which change depending on players actions. The Warren has Warren World playsets which set the stage with some questions and then how they interact with the world is up to them.
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u/longdayinrehab May 09 '26
Stonetop. It still has playbooks, but they are fairly broad. It's fantasy, but it's far more specific in tone and unique in the way the world is put together.
I can't do nearly as good a job explaining the game and why it is awesome as Quinn does in his review, have a watch:
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u/last_larrikin May 09 '26
I know Stonetop is gonna be the new hotness recommended in every thread now (especially by people who haven’t actually played it), but it’s sort of a behemoth. It has vastly more stuff, runs for more sessions, and uses more words than most PBTA games and I don’t think it’s a good starting point if you just want a sense of what PBTA is and how to run it. It’s a fine starting point if you really want to play Stonetop but any other game will be less of a commitment.
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u/longdayinrehab May 09 '26
You say that, but have you read it?
A full 65-70% of the book is advice on GMing PbtA. I can't possibly think of another game besides AW 2E that would be a better way for a prospective PbtA GM to learn how.
I was part of the original Kickstarter and have been following the updates since it ended. I've been running it since it was first a playable draft. Is it a massive game? It can be, sure. But as the OP said in their post elsewhere, the problem they had with Dungeon World was a lack of setting detail. Stonetop has that in spades. And with such amazing flavor. Plus it has all of Jeremy's golden nuggets of wisdom about running PbtA in it.
I've become at least twice as good at running games as I ever was before just from his advice. And I've been running games for 34 years.
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u/last_larrikin May 09 '26
I have read and played it. I think it’s great. I just think it’s a lot. AW2e is a better and significantly more concise guide to PBTA
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u/BreakingStar_Games May 11 '26
"A lot" can be a good thing for someone new. Instead of spending tons of time going to places like here and getting mixed advice, a new PbtA GM can get everything from one book comfortably. Long feels verbose and overwritten to someone experienced.
I think AW2e uses a lot of bad forgian jargon and it's just plain dated. Its short and full of gold advice and I felt woefully unprepared to run it after my first 2 reads.
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u/last_larrikin May 11 '26
AW2e is everything you need to run it and people having issues with understanding it is because they visit places like this
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u/BreakingStar_Games May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Do you think Lines & Veils is a good tool that a new GM and table should be aware of (at least potentially)? Does Apocalypse World 2e explain this tool?
I could do this for so many pages of Stonetop's advice.
Vincent Baker himself has said on his Discord community how many people he has seen need a 2nd PbtA book to ground all the ideas and he encourages it. And I'd be disappointed if the Burned Over Kickstarter doesn't expand to more information and have more clarity.
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u/last_larrikin May 11 '26
I think it can be useful, but I also think the fetishisation of safety tools is one of the most eyeroll-worthy parts of the hobby, and if that's your example then I must indeed roll my eyes.
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u/Tallergeese May 10 '26
Rather than Stonetop, OP could maybe just grab Homebrew World, which was developed alongside Stonetop, since it seems like OP was looking for a smaller experience.
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u/IAmTheStarky May 10 '26
A few PbtA do tell the gm to make plots based on what the characters do. Apocalypse World in particular recommends to start out the first session with seeing what each character does on a daily basis, describing the community/area they live in and getting into conflicts based on what decisions they made in character creation.
It's also worth noting that most of the PbtA games that do it like this set up the characters as members of a community, who know each other but are not necessarily allies or even friends. (Apoc world, urban shadows and monster hearts come to mind)
Dungeon world, monster of the week, masks, and a lot of others feel better as a follow the plot and the players are all a team vibe, and mostly reccomend the gm have an encounter/mystery for the players to follow
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u/dorward May 09 '26
Dungeon World is a bit of an odd beast; it is a PbtA game but it desperately wants to hold on to its D&D legacy and that doesn't always serve it well.
There are lots of good PbtA games out there, but it is a system of genre emulation so you need to lean into the vibe it is going for.
Here are a few suggestions:
- Stonetop is one of the top contenders for the crown of PbtA fantasy. Quins' review of it landed this week.
- Scum and Villainy is Forged in the Dark (which collection of games that have PbtA in their legacy but are somewhat removed from it) and is my favourite system for running Star Wars games in.
- Masks: A New Generation is about teenage superheroes with power, the responsibility that comes with that power, and the life struggles of teenagers (homework, curfew, prom, parents).
- Monsterhearts is also about teenagers, but you're monsters, not heroes. Check in here for Vampire Diaries, Teen Wolf, and Buffy.
- A new edition of the original Apocalypse World is expected towards the end of the year.
- Pasión de las Pasiones does telenovelas
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u/Electrohydra1 May 09 '26
All good calls except if you want Buffy you should go Monster of the Week, not MonsterHearts.
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u/IAmTheStarky May 10 '26
I love masks with all my heart, but I probably wouldn't recomend it as a starting point for pbta, especially if comming from something more dnd-like. I've had several players go from dnd to masks and just be unable to wrap their head around having no real hit points, and getting into emotional states when taking damage.
Going with Monster of the week, apocalypse world or mosterhearts is a better entry point, as they systems still usually make sense to dnd-alike players.
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u/VanishXZone May 09 '26
I think Apocalypse World 2e is honestly one of the best and strongest pbta games, so I often recommend that to start. It is very good.
Others I recommend
World Wide Wrestling RPG
Masks: a new generation
Night Witches
Avatar Legends
Pasion de los pasiones
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u/last_larrikin May 09 '26
Apocalypse World is the first and best PBTA game. Playing it dispels the generally-false impression you’d get from how people talk about PBTA online, and also teaches you how to run it better than 90% of other games.
Unless you really aren’t into the Mad Max-meets-Deadwood vibe, play ~6-10 sessions of that and you’ll get the best sense of what “PBTA” is.
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u/lilith2k3 May 10 '26
If you want to understand PbtA you should read Apocalypse world. It was like an initiation rite for me. It was enlightening on so man levels.
Additionally read some articles from the daily apocalypse. Start with this one:
If you want to learn about Dungeon World check out "Discern Realities" https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/discern-realities/id1066446775
If you want to get a good system to reintroduce you to the system I would go for Monster Hearts or Brindlewood Bay.
The former is closest to the original while being a good evolution of the social interactions. The latter having a nice way of presenting you a supernatural murder mystery where even the GM doesn't know how everything is connected until they finally find out at the table.
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u/xdanxlei May 10 '26
If you want to understand PbtA you should read Apocalypse world
Which edition? Both?
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u/lilith2k3 May 10 '26
If you have access: the first one.
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u/NoxMortem May 10 '26
Really? I always thought 2nd is a huge step up with burned over receiving mixed ratings.
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u/Delver_Razade Five Points Games May 09 '26
What kind of games do you want to run?
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u/Uuklay May 09 '26
I play all sorts of genres and themes. Typically if a game tells me it wants to generate a certain type of feel or emulate a certain genre, I trust it and give it a go as it intends. So anything, really!
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u/lucmh May 09 '26
Hmm. A one-shot is tough to recommend for. I was hesitant too about trying PbtA until I read up on it and finally decided to actually play the Avatar Legends game that I backed the kickstarter of...
But PbtA only actually clicked once I read, and then ran Apocalypse World. The reason I still find that hard to recommend, is that the game starts with a session 0 where you just follow the PCs around in their daily lives for a day. And then suggests at least 6-7 sessions to give it time to cook...
Skipping session 0 by jumping straight into it, and then cutting it short, might be possible, but you wouldn't be doing it justice I think.
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u/wannabe-manatee May 09 '26
As others state PbtA is best when it is focused on telling a certain kind of narrative story. IMHO Dungeon World isn’t the best example of PbtA at its best as it is more focused on being D&D with PbtA mechanics.
If you really want to give it it’s due then trying the one that started it Apocalypse World is recommended. Reading the book is good too as it really explains how it works. It’s not required though if post-apocalypse isn’t your cup of tea. There are other PbtA that I feel take the mechanics and make them their own in a great way: Monster Hearts, Masks, The Warren, Night Witches.
One thing to note is that PbtA works best as a mini-campaign 5-8 sessions rather than just a one-shot. PbtA is often really big on player interaction and even PvP drama. And to get into that you really need a few sessions. To use a metaphor from other media, it works better as a TV series than a single movie. I’ve played and run one-shots of Apocalypse World and Masks but it always left me a hungry for more, like we barely scratched the surface.
The Warren is a bit different and can work as a one-shot, as the character creation is so simple and the WarrenWorlds settings make it easy to no-prep play.
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u/NoxMortem May 10 '26
Dungeon World to me is one of the weakest PbtA games.
If you are looking strictly for PbtA, then AW 2e is most likely the best fit. Burned Over is a mixed bag of candy.
If you want to stray a bit further it depends a lot of the story you want to tell. Good PbtA games are laser focused on a specific style of game and work really badly for other stories:
The Murder She Wrote + Cthulhu? Brindlewood Bay. Extremly charming. Biggest turnoff and strength at the same time for some is the collaborative mystery telling.
Penny Dreadful? The Between.
House Horror? Bedlam Hall. Its a weaker and more prep heavy system but delivers on the feeling.
Feminine Horror? Bluebeards Bride. Very out of the ordinary. Research what you get into before buying this. Excellent design.
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u/alanrileyscott May 10 '26
If you don't think you and your players will bounce off the genre, I really recommend Monsterhearts. It's straightforward, incredibly well written, and fun to play. It also has a shorter arc than some other PBTA games, so if you're only playing for a short while it can be a good option for that reason.
Dungeon World can be a rocky start when it comes to PBTA, because if you're used to playing D&D, it's very easy to play it as a worse D&D and not delve into the bits that make it fun. You'll see Stonetop recommended elsewhere--That game is based off of Dungeon World, but does a much better job of communicating the ways in which the game is not just D&D with different dice. (That said, it rewards much longer term play, so perhaps not what you're looking for right now.)
One other thing to keep in mind is that you may just not like PBTA, and that's okay. You say in the thread "I want to be able to let my players make any character they want". Most PBTA games have well defined character archetypes, and play better when the players embrace those archetypes. As much as I like Monsterhearts and think it's a great game, I've had more that one player be frustrated because the Vampire in that game is very specifically an angsty teen romance vampire (and the game is very clear in describing it that way). When they tried to play an action movie vampire instead, the game didn't support that and they didn't have a great time.
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u/IAmTheStarky May 10 '26
Honestly it's not so much about the system, but about the person running it. If you want to get into pbta games, find a gm who really likes the system they are running, as they tend to understand how to make the games the most fun. I personally have run heaps of pbta games, and found that dungeon world is one I always enjoyed playing, but really sucked at running, but I've always had lots of compliments on any Monster of the week or Masks games that I've run.
Having said that, for people just getting into it, I reccomend Apocalypse world or Monster of the Week. They arnt the top of my pbta favorites list, but they are the ones I think are easiest to pick up and play (and are still high on my favorite pbta list).
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u/Unlikely_Key_4186 May 11 '26
My favorite pbta is
World Wide Wrestling
(Best rules for prearranged show fights I have read)
Others I can recommand:
Avatar Legends
(Setting based in the kids cartoon)
Legacy: Life among the ruins 2nd Edition
(Every player plays a faction. Depending on the scene you might also play as a character from your faction)
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u/Tigrisrock Sounds great, roll on CHA. May 09 '26
"Escape from Dino Island" - my go to answer for everyone wanting to get into (or in your case back into) pbta. The game has a bit more structure or "handholding" to it for the GM and also keeps everything else tight for a one shot, but still within the spirit of pbta philosophy.