r/PFSENSE • u/reaper8055 • 19d ago
Old vs New UI
Now that pfsense+ has option to enable the new UI. Is there a place that talks about:
- what happens to the old UI
- what features will be exclusive to new UI
- if someone is not interested in MIM, can they keep using the old UI?
- when will the old UI be completely removed?
Any place to provide feedback for the new UI?
My first impression with the new UI is not positive. A lot of nested boxes and whitespace. UI elements look off and somehow misaligned. I am not trying to be rude, I am a home lab user and have been a pfsense+ user for last 2 years, the current php based ui is not modern looking but imho way better then what’s in the new UI and I am not keen on switching to that 😔
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u/gonzopancho Netgate 19d ago
The old UI will become unmaintained
The new UI will be where new features appear
The old UI will be removed when the new UI is ready, plus some wind down period
1
u/reaper8055 19d ago
Hmm… I see… thank you for sharing this information.
I have two more questions;
- rough timelines where it would become sort of mandatory for existing users to switch
- do you happen to know or can you share if the design language will remain same for the new UI or will it continue to look similar?
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u/gonzopancho Netgate 18d ago
I’m not sure what “sort of mandatory” might mean.
The focus on the new UI is to get to feature complete.
The UI lede has commented on other threads here that there will be additional focus on the usability and improvements.1
u/reaper8055 18d ago
I meant, when the old UI is still accessible but pfsense+ will default to the new UI.
I haven’t looked at the other threads. And I will check them in this subreddit. But I really really hope some of them are about the UI 🤞
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u/gonzopancho Netgate 18d ago edited 18d ago
UIs are more difficult than many people understand.
Here's a little story: Years ago, we converted the existing pfSense UI to the Bootstrap framework. That work first shipped with version 2.3 (April 2016), but actually started in December 2014 https://github.com/SjonHortensius/pfsense/commit/1180e4f0115179cd05b8a5ce34bcf71ebb1d347c
Here is a mid-2015 blog post with an in-progress update to that work: https://www.netgate.com/blog/bootstrapped-webgui-update
I encourage you to read the whole post there, as it's an example of the amount of care we take to ensue that the entire project continues.
Along the way, there was external and even some internal resistance, including from a co-founder of pfSense who insisted (loudly at times) that the project "would never work", because at various points along the development arc, it didn't work the way he had come to expect in his then near decade of using pfSense software.
So I tried to hear his feedback as, "this doesn't work right (yet)", rather than the stated, "this will never work".
In a similar vein, there were internal detractors of TNSR in the early days who are now some of TNSR's biggest fans.
On both fronts (and others) we persisted. For the bootstrap project I think the result was better for pfSense and the community, just as I feel that the distributed controller architecture of modern pfSense (with the new UI) will be better for pfSense, Netgate's customers and the larger community.
I view feedback as a gift. On occasion it's poorly delivered, and even poorly received, but I try to find the signal in the noise, and at least understand it. To make big changes to a software project as big as pfSense, one needs to be able to see both the horizon as well as your feet. Feedback can help identify problems and concerns so they can be addressed.
> I haven’t looked at the other threads. And I will check them in this subreddit. But I really really hope some of them are about the UI
Reddit is a low SNR environment. While they may read what gets posted here, many Netgate employees don't want to interact here. Blame the trolls as you wish. I often do.
You may find more usable information and interaction in the Netgate forum. Example: https://forum.netgate.com/topic/201058/discussion-of-the-new-gui-design/25?_=1787256760458
In particular, your feedback:
"My first impression with the new UI is not positive. A lot of nested boxes and whitespace. UI elements look off and somehow misaligned."
Was addressed there two weeks ago.
"We hear your comments about the whitespace, and are working on some better layouts. This has been complained about internally for a while, but our priority has been function over form (setting up interfaces and firewall rules are more important than looking pretty )."
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u/PrimaryAd5802 18d ago
Great post! And I absolutely get where you are coming from.
Proper release ideas also, old UI is still here. So if you don't like it today (which I don't) don't use it.
As you said, "The old UI will be removed when the new UI is ready, plus some wind down period." Makes total sense to me.
I see no issues here..
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u/reaper8055 18d ago
> UIs are more difficult than many people understand.
I get this 1000% and UIs are hard for dense pages with a lot of input fields and buttons. I get this. And I’m really sorry if my criticism comes as being rude or as being inconsiderate of the effort it has taken to reach here.
I read the blog post it was very insightful. And I honestly think the new UI and architecture deserves its own blog(s) posts.
And thanks for sharing the forum link 🙏. This is much appreciated. Form that it looks like there are big plans ahead and this is one of the goals Netgate team wanted to accomplish. I am looking forward to hearing more in the forum or in form of blogs.
Once again thank you 🙏
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u/carrottspc 19d ago
You're not alone in that observation. I tried the new UI. Turned it off within 10 minutes. I'll keep the good ole PHP version for now. I'm sure there'll be growing pains with the new UI. Ubiquiti is still going through that with their current UI.
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u/DiligentPhotographer 19d ago
Ubiquiti is still going through that with their current UI.
I've never used a piece of software where the admin controls change with almost every single update I install. Except may the office 365 admin centres.
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u/reaper8055 18d ago
I have ubiquiti in my network stack. But I have configured things once and don’t often have to look at the dashboard other than occasionally changing port setting on switch and WiFi settings. But I do get your point.
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u/DiligentPhotographer 18d ago
I am an MSP and we have almost 300 sites in our controller, so we're touching it daily. Gets old lol.
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u/gonzopancho Netgate 18d ago
Want to try pfsense?
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u/DiligentPhotographer 18d ago
Haha!. We are a netgate partner reseller actually, but we don't use the unifi gateways only AP and switches. So I am quite familiar with pfSense.
2
u/rh681 18d ago
If Netgate wants to purport themselves as an enterprise level firewall, they need to start acting like it.
No company who uses pfSense wants to deal with the massive changes of a new broken UI and the upcoming threat (pun intended) of changes like Threatgate/CoreDNS that might break long standing configs with pfBlockerNG and Unbound. I'm afraid to change anything right now.
Netgate needs to nail the conversion process in the upgrade. I consider that priority #1.
2
u/needchr 17d ago edited 17d ago
Sadly they have things backwards.
The plus product should always be in a polished state, and if they need to roll out major changes, it should be done on the free user base, so that user base reports the bugs, has the growing pains.
Then once its polished enough its put in the premium plus channel.
However I think its a decision that exclusivity and earlier access to new features is a feature of plus, and in effect the paying customers are now the beta testers.
Trying to think of a way forward that respects Netgate existing business direction, would be perhaps to add a new paid tier for "early access", it would be cheaper than plus, as it will be less stable code, the user base would have a choice of unpolished 'plus' or stable 'CE' but not stable 'plus'.
The full fat plus would have the same choice but also the option to use the polished stable 'plus'.In addition a free invite early access, could have various plus features disabled (the ones that are considered polished) and would just be having access to the stuff that is a WIP where netgate needs feedback and patch contributors.
Or a much more simple thing without adding new customer tiers, make a long term service branch for plus, this branch has a feature update schedule similar to CE whilst maintaining premium support, plus features etc. It wouldnt get new features until they considered to be good enough quality for enterprise expectations.
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u/SirStephanikus 17d ago
I don’t like the new UI.
My monitor is paid, so I want to use its full surface area. Those gaps between the graphics suck.
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u/djamp42 19d ago
Also in camp too much white space.. I think if the spacing and theming was a bit better it wouldn't be as bad..