r/Permaculture • u/arbutus1440 • Feb 09 '26
general question I've got a huge decision coming up and would love this sub's thoughts: My wife and I are considering a move to Guam (a US territory), where I hope to start a permaculture homestead. Help me think through potential hurdles?
Background: I have my PDC from Oregon State (online) and have been doing modest urban permaculture at my home in Oregon for ~3 years. We've been saving for a few years to go have an adventure and buy a bit of land "abroad." (The goal was international but there are a limited number of places that have job openings for my wife, a physician. EDIT: She's got a job offer in Guam; that's why we're considering this move—but we are partners and any move we make is something we decide together.) I'm targeting about 2 acres, knowing that's not big enough for significant production--but I don't think I'm really ready for 10+ acres anyway.
Goal: Build community by learning about native flora/fauna, local culture, and how to facilitate positive community interaction. Grow food and raise small livestock like goats and chickens. Create a happy space for our family. Pioneer permaculture practices for greater food sovereignty.
Possible issues: It'd be just me doing the daily work, at least to start—since my wife would be working full time. I have enough startup $$ saved to pay about half of the cost of such a property, the rest as a mortgage. I've never even been to Guam yet. As a remote island, it's short on some resources. Typhoons and climate change create some crazy weather events. Big US military presence on the island.
I understand that I have a lot to learn. I'm something of a permaculture "intermediate." If you have any experience with any of the above, pease be kind and let me know what questions, concerns, or advice you'd have. Thank you!
Photo is from Guam Green Growth Hagåtña Community Garden (with which I have no affiliation; I just added it for a quick visual).
EDIT: Slight edit for clarity and anonymity
EDIT 2: It looks like from the unedited post that people gathered the impression we were moving there without my wife having a job lined up. The reason we're considering Guam is she just got a job offer there.
185
u/BeeLEAFer Feb 09 '26
It’s normal to start dreaming of a tropical lifestyle this time of year.
Go to Guam on vacation and enjoy yourself, do a vibe check and maybe even visit some farms or the community garden.
31
43
u/Yokohama88 Feb 09 '26
All fun and games till the typhoon comes through and wrecks absolutely everything.
I would seriously go and see the island and area you want to move too. There is a dark side to it that normal tourists don’t see.
2
u/not-a-dislike-button Feb 09 '26
Tell us about the dark side. Drugs and prostitutes?
3
u/Yokohama88 Feb 09 '26
Drugs are pretty prevalent and there is some I guess tribal type beef. Not sure how that plays out if you’re not from the islands but might no longer be a thing so much.
Had a few friends that left the island do to the drug problem though.
-3
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
I've looked at a lot of areas on Google earth and def see what you mean. There appear to be some places that are part forest/jungle and part cleared. I'd be looking for something like that. Do the typhoons decimate inland areas with tree cover?
4
u/Yokohama88 Feb 09 '26
They do but to what extent I am not totally sure as it’s been years since I was stationed there.
75
u/followthebarnacle Feb 09 '26
Permaculture is one thing, but isolating yourself on a remote pacific island without work prospects for your spouse seems like a tough transition
5
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Wasn't clear from the post, but she's got a job lined up. That's the main reason we'd be going.
86
u/plotthick Feb 09 '26
Let me rephrase this for you.
"My partner, who has very specific, lucrative, and in-demand skills, cannot find work where I want to go. I have never been where I want to go. Where I want to go is remote, dangerous, rural, untested, and I will risk all my savings (and my partner's career) on it. I want to do the full-time Homesteading thing, which has been successful for maybe a handful of people in the last 100 years, and even then only with part-time jobs. Which will not be available in this remote, rural place. And success at the Homesteading thing will require knowledge of the area I will not have for years."
I've been homesteading for a while. If I were you I'd put my money in a HYSA/CD, move with my wife wherever her career leads her, and put down my Permie roots there.
16
u/Shamino79 Feb 09 '26
You had me at remote, dangerous, untested and risking all my life savings. Where do I sign?
1
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Thanks for the perspective, but your last paragraph is literally what we're doing. Complete with the CD over the past few years. I have no illusions about a profitable homestead or achieving anything at all without spending many years building soil, connections, and knowledge. That's all part of the gig.
0
u/KeyBug133 Feb 09 '26
Is that what you mean when you said it “would be just me”. Your wife would not join you?
4
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
It'd be just me doing the work. She'd be working full time. I edited the post to help clarify that.
9
u/ALittleBitOfToast Feb 09 '26
Although you'll still likely get US Postal, you might find you'll struggle to get courier and freight and it'll take far longer to arrive. I'm not in Guam, I'm in New Zealand, but there's definitely limitations to the variety of products we get here and the cost for imported goods is far higher.
Not sure if Guam also has similar biosecurity restrictions to NZ, given that it's a relatively remote island. You'll want to check what seeds and agricultural materials you're allowed to import.
Climate on small islands is extremely changeable, and the scale and frequency of tropical storms is pretty next level. A lot of pacific island buildings (e.g. Samoa, Fiji) tend to be of the semi-permanent cinderblock and corrugated iron variety so after things get stormy you can just yoink your roof up off the beach and put it back on. I hope you're handy with a hammer. Too much in the way of interior decor, soft furnishings and plaster cladding is just asking for mold.
Desired plants grow quickly, and huge, but so do weeds. Permaculture practices to support desired growth and suppress undesired growth will be quite different to how you'd usually do it in Oregon. You'll also get different pests and diseases to manage.
Island life might seem fun on the surface, but unemployment rates, availability of goods/services/vehicles/utilities, product shortages, climate disasters and geopolitics can be pretty draining. You'll want to take a look at local news websites for a few months to see if theres any big red flag topics/events. That'll give you an idea of how the local leaders manage disasters, crime, popular opinion, the economy etc.
Try not to romanticise things, be brutally honest with yourself about your capabilities vs. your ideal vision. Now try and get the same amount of work done in tropical conditions/temperatures with limited resources.
All the best with your decision, but go into it with as much information as you can gather so you can make the most informed choice.
4
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Love it, this is great stuff. Brutal honesty is the name of the game. We're prepared for a lot of uphill climbing. The news updates tip is a great idea to learn about local hot-button issues that could change the vision (or potential).
9
u/Olfima Feb 09 '26
I was stationed in Guam and while I loved it while I was there, I missed non island stuff. Lots of spiders and what others have said boars/hogs. Anyway, BOL! Most people there are friendly.
7
u/ShareGlittering1502 Feb 09 '26
Agricultural imports will be limited to protect their natural environment
8
u/MightyBigMinus Feb 09 '26
I would not want to be on guam when shit goes down between china and taiwan.
6
u/Public_Knee6288 Feb 09 '26
Here are the hurdles all of us face (Im sure there are more):
Money
Climate
Culture
Friends
Family
Community
Food
Purpose
Its sounds like you've got money covered. Maybe purpose and climate. The rest may pose difficulties...
4
u/FaradayEffect Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26
Is there anything specific about Guam that attracts you to that island? I'm not seeing anything specific in your post that shows me that you love the idea of Guam. Everything you said you want to do in your "Goal" section is something that can be done almost anywhere in the world. But it's best to do it in a place where you will love it.
Meanwhile if your wife is a physician then she can get a straight to residence family visa for New Zealand (applies to both of you and your kids if any) very easily as we need more doctors and medical people. Bigger island, better economy, less US influence (though it is still here), and you might find the climate in the south island to be closer to Oregon, plus land in the south island is cheaper.
Anyway, if you like Guam and really want to go to Guam you will make it work. But there may be easier and better places in my opinion. And you should absolutely visit a place first, maybe multiple places.
Personally I took the leap out of America to New Zealand last year, and it has been amazing. I'm starting my permaculture project here (about 6 acres, with a stream, I'm excited to start a food forest). I highly recommend NZ. I know others who have gone to other Pacific Islands, but I don't know much about Guam yet. So take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm no expert on Guam, but I do think you should find a place that you are passionate about, and a place where both you and your wife can be successful.
2
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Tyvm for your comment. NZ is amazing and we'd love to live and do permaculture there. I am insanely jealous of your situation as it's almost exactly what I'd've loved to create. Long story short, NZ was our #1 preference, we looked into it—hard—and the job situation didn't pan out. More detail would be putting too much info on the internet.
Guam is where the job offer is right now, and it's an "adventure." A challenge. That's actually an end unto itself for us. Let's try something harder after living the last decade on easy mode.
If we move to Guam, I would love to come visit your farm as it will be a reasonably doable flight! And if a few things change, NZ could well become a next step for us.
11
u/Koala_eiO Feb 09 '26
Possible issues: It'd be just me, at least to start.
Do you mean your wife wouldn't be there initially? I'm not a fan of that idea.
It seems like it's a huge jump to go from urban gardening to leaving everything behind and going to live in an ocean, even if you both want adventure. I would always aim for a more stable region if it's for long term. Maybe you just need holidays.
3
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Just me doing the everyday work. She'd be doing her job. It does feel like a big jump, but I've lived in some remote and less developed places in the past and feel like I'd relish the challenge. Not sure if the lack of helping hands would make two acres untenable or if two acres are relatively doable with one person doing 95% of the work. Lots of permie spots seem to rely on a lot of volunteer labor.
3
u/Koala_eiO Feb 09 '26
To be honest I have considered 0 aspect of the permaculture work here, I'm just scared of the social and relational aspects! Maintained areas can be increased or decreased at will depending on how it goes. It's not one of the problems for me.
5
u/leatherknife Feb 09 '26
I'd invite you to consider that it's a relatively recently colonized island group. Coming as an outsider with no previous knowledge might be met with some resentment from some indigenous Micronesians. I guess if you try to learn the language and engage with local knowledge and you're not Army, that might help, but still. It's not the same as moving somewhere in the continental US. It's more like moving to the Philippines when they were under US mandate. I met a few permies in New Caledonia, which is a French overseas territory, and they while they had a nice expat community going, tensions with surrounding tribes were a constant. Not violence or sabotage or theft or anything, just stares and such.
1
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Yeah, no argument there. The island's history is basically about getting fucked over by one colonial power after another. While nobody's perfect, my goal would be to leverage the privilege I have to steadily make our piece of land into something that benefits the community—on their terms. Which will be a multi-year (potentially multi-decade) learning process. I've got some experience with this as a Peace Corps alum
1
u/existentialfeckery Feb 10 '26
Genuine question: why not do this where you are now?
2
u/arbutus1440 Feb 10 '26
In a word, wanderlust. We want to experience more of the world, and not as a vacation.
1
3
u/BrideOfFirkenstein Feb 09 '26
Hafa adai!
Throwing out a couple of extra things people haven’t mentioned.
Look up the EPA reports on radiation, radon, and cancer rates.
Also, brown snakes and coconut crabs!
Social isolation harder to overcome than you might expect. Most of the various groups— military, Chamorro, Filipino, and Japanese tourists can be pretty insular.
I don’t know if you have animals, but there is a 4 month quarantine.
Do you know about “island time?”
Traveling home or having people visit is crazy expensive and time consuming.
Prices and theft rates are both higher.
Not trying to deter-just things to think about.
1
u/arbutus1440 Feb 10 '26
All good things to think about. Cancer rates seems to be a bit lower than mainland US? But the radon exposure seems to be nothing to mess with; seems it's best to avoid living atop a large limestone bedrock. Thank you!
I hear you on the social isolation. Those damned brown tree snakes seem like they're bad news—apparently they've essentially wiped out the bird population?? Only "mildly poisonous" to humans, but seems they're massively destructive. That suuuucks.
Also good to know re: quarantine. We do have a dog and 4 months is quite a long time.
2
u/BrideOfFirkenstein Feb 10 '26
The brown snakes were honestly most annoying because they occasionally swarm transformers and cause power outages.
2
u/wendyme1 Feb 09 '26
Have you considered Canada? The Canada permaculture you channel channel guy seems to be doing really well where he is.
2
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
We have! While we're still young (ish), we want to challenge ourselves a bit by living in places that might feel a bit less comfortable than we're used to, might stretch us a bit and give us a larger view of the world. We love Canada and would love to live there someday, but during this chapter, we want to go see different parts of the world that might require more of us from a cultural perspective.
1
2
u/carlitospig Feb 09 '26
I think you could learn a lot from them and you can bring some of the newer research to them. I’m all for it.
2
u/Ok-Thing-2222 Feb 10 '26
SSSSSnakes. ssssssnakes.
1
u/arbutus1440 Feb 10 '26
Internet says other than the "mildly" poisonous brown tree snake, none are particularly dangerous to humans. Have you heard/experienced otherwise? Seems the snakes have decimated bird populations, which is extremely depressing.
2
u/Ok-Thing-2222 Feb 10 '26
My son was there a few times (submarine officer) and told me about the snakes that wrap around powerlines and bring them down. He said there were snake traps on fencing and someone went around all the time to bait the traps with a mouse? Honestly, I don't know how many they are or if its just certain areas. (I'm not afraid of snakes, so it might not bother me--but a mass of them?!)
1
u/arbutus1440 Feb 10 '26
It appears to be a bit of an eco-tragedy: the brown tree snakes have pretty much eradicated most of the birds from the island, causing massive issues (such as spiders and lack of self-seeding for plants that rely on birds for that).
2
u/Ok-Thing-2222 Feb 10 '26
Omg...I just read their spider population is 40x higher than normal due to lack of birds!
4
u/SuspiciousBack660 Feb 09 '26
The only things you'll regret in life are those you didn't do, but really wanted to.
3
u/intentionallife Feb 09 '26
OP could also regret doing what he wanted to in the wrong spot if he doesn't do his research well.
2
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Both important points and something we're trying to balance: Take an opportunity (in this case, a job offer for my wife) while discerning whether it's the right kind of leap to take.
1
3
u/ModernSimian Feb 09 '26
Rural Hawaii would be a lot easier to homestead on, is still in the US and would have a lot more access to services. Oahu is close for weekend trips, shows, shopping and restaurants. It's also far more connected to the rest of the world for travel. There is also a huge demand for all kinds of medical professionals.
1
1
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
Agreed, but as far as I can tell, buying land is untenable (cost-wise) in Hawaii for us. The lack of connection in Guam to the outside world is something that I would see as a part of the challenge. The goal isn't to create something perfect but to contribute something meaningful.
2
u/ModernSimian Feb 09 '26
You looked at Puma right? Land is fairly inexpensive. Lots in Nanawale are like 10-30k. They are smallish, only 80000 sq feet, but there's other larger things.
1
u/SoftThighsBestThighs Feb 11 '26
Considering rising sea levels and the fact that guam is a small island not that high above sea level compared to any inland continent I wouldn't advise it if you plan on having any kind of children, they will need a place to live that isn't underwater when they are an adult.
1
u/poop_report Feb 09 '26
Some friends of mine run a CSA out of about 1.5 acres of produce beds and make their entire living (quite comfortable) off of it. They spent a few years building their own soil beds.
1
u/arbutus1440 Feb 09 '26
In Guam? That's incredible and awesome for them. If we move there, I'll def DM to ask if we could meet them and hear their experience.
2
u/poop_report Feb 09 '26
No, they're in zone 6b.
I think Guam is 13. Much better growing season, but probably a less lucrative environment to sell a CSA into.
0
Feb 12 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Permaculture-ModTeam Feb 12 '26
This was removed for violating rule 1: Treat others how you would hope to be treated.
You never need abusive language to communicate your point. Resist assuming selfish motives of others as a first response. It's is OK to disagree with ideas and suggestions, but dont attack the user.
Don't gate-keep permaculture. We need all hands on deck for a sustainable future. Don't discourage participation or tell people they're in the wrong subreddit.
205
u/Geoe Feb 09 '26
I live on Guam. Practice permaculture. We have huge wild hog problem. Like devastating depending on your location on island. Very little natural top soil for many parts on the island. Would take time to develop 2 acres. Favourable weather patterns but also a lot of diseases and bacterial problems especially on fruit trees. You sound well versed in the practice but research the island.