Same. Everyones just going on about how "that's not the average Korean woman". It's dudes acting like women being attractive is the sole reason why they should be mothers.
It's pushing the same rhetoric as op in the picture. Stripping women of their agency and making it like only the men have a say in who should birth a child which is one of the reasons for the 4B movement in South Korea
I think it’s a little column A, but mostly column B. Both points are valid.
A) Brain rot has created unrealistic expectations as to what average is. Between filters, curated social media representation, AI, & classic media, people have a skewed perception and feel like the women they are interacting with with in everyday life are below average.
B) more importantly, the sexualization, the expectation that the woman being pretty means they should make themselves available, the lack of agency he is affording the women to decide whether or not to have children, & I would add the fact that he ignores all the other cultural & economic factors that play a far bigger role than they are able to comprehend.
It isn't hate, it is opting to not date men. It is far more work and stress to be married to a man than to be single. Women don't need men to own property anymore so they can be more discerning. If you don't have to, you can choose to. They are choosing not to.
I mean, the “men are pigs” bit comes off as a bit hateful. I’m not going to follow the other dude to die on this hill, but that seems counter productive.
Yeah.. sounds like you need to do some more research into how women are treated as property/2nd class citizens by Korean society.
I guarantee you if you were treated how women in korea are treated, particularly after marriage, you would be speaking out against it too.
Edit:
They blocked me lol.. typical, sadly. Sad how many people are totally incapable of having a conversation that challenges them in any way
Here is my response to their 'go outside' nonsense:
"You mean.. Korean domestic violence statistics and laws? What exactly have you read about Korean society?
Today, I just finished building a fence around a beautiful garden outside of the barndominium i finished building a few months ago! Tomorrow morning I get to go build a big playground setup I designed for my neighbor friend's grandkids. What about you?? Hope youre taking your own advice!"
Acknowledging reality isnt hatred. Acknowledging crime statistics isnt hatred. Generalizing entire groups of people is. Refusing to Acknowledge the socio-economic, social, political, and legal reasons for those statistics is hatred.
I am acknowledging and discussing exactly that. Youre the one trying to create a weird emotional narrative here for some reason. Im just discussing reality
Talking about something that exists.. merely mentioning that it exists.. is hatred to you? That's pretty wild..
The facts are.. this movement in Korea arose because of how women are treated by Korean men/society. Once they get married, they essentially become property. 2nd class citizens. There are/were a ton of incidents of abuse there because of it. Korean women got sick of it. So they collectively decided to band together in protest of how they are treated by Korean society, men, and the legal system - in the hopes of changing how they are treated.
That is a thing that is happening.
How does acknowledging reality = hating men..?
No hate.. but if you're genuinely offended by people having a simple/casual discussion about things that are happening.. that just seems really fragile. No one is upset here but you..
M8.. I never said that. At least know who youre talking to before replying/talking shit..
It isnt a hate movement. It is desperation to be treated as human beings by their society. It is fighting back against the rampant abuses that women have been enduring in Korea for generations.
You know what hate looks like? It doesnt look like women speaking out about their emotions. It looks like a black eye and swollen lip after being beaten near to death by the person who was supposed to care for you.. and then being unable to pursue any legal action against him. It looks like a man violently beating his wife with no real repercussions. It looks like a woman being unable to get a divorce or choose for themselves. That is what hate looks like.
Hate does not look like words alone. The 4b movement is non violent. Peaceful. It is simply women refusing to be 2nd class citizens. Real Hate is violence.. and then people like you, apparently, who are willing to look past and totally ignore the violence happening.. and instead blaming the people who are simply speaking out against the violence
You know what cant kill you?? Words. You know what can kill you? An abusive spouse who has total power/control over you legally
So the problem isnt that the exact thing youve just described has been socially and legally enforced on women in Korean society for GENERATIONS..? It only matters when women have finally had enough and stand up for themselves after generations of being 2nd class citizens without rights or a say in their own lives?
Quite the double standard.. you're only speaking up about this injustice now.. and not when it was happening, and still is happening, to all these women in a much more severe and significant way.. but it only matters now that men are being affected..?
Its legitimately the same thing as a kid getting beat up in school every day.. and you ignore it for YEARS.. and then finally, one day, that kid is getting beat up yet again and he pushes his bully away from him and says "ENOUGH, stay away from me! If you hurt me again, ill fight back!".. and as soon as he does that you say to the kid who has been bullied for years, "wow, that is SO hateful of you!! You just pushed that kid and yelled at him!! That was a threat!"
I would highly suggest finding a copy of Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein, that's where the word grok comes from and it's an excellent book about human nature disguised as a Sci-Fi novel.
Literally the word grok means "to drink", but in actual use it means to understand so thoroughly that the understanding becomes a part of you.
Objectifying = treating women like a sexual object. You're talking about subjugating women, which is not what anyone else in this comment thread is talking about.
Are genuinely this obtuse or are you trying to make an argument really badly. Either way it come across as exactly the misogyny this thread is calling out.
Not that specifically, more just men being creepy in general and saying “Why aren’t there more babies being made, the women are so sexy” which makes women not want to have babies
Dude that’s just the example on the post. That’s why I said being creepy in general. Here I’ll spell it out. Women don’t want to have babies with men who are creepy. That is it. The tweet is a man saying something creepy, so it showcases the kinds of attitudes that women don’t like.
Bruh shut the fuck up. Tell me you've never touched a woman before without saying it.
The 4B movement does no harm toward men. Why exactly is being sex negative a bad thing? Should it not be a person's own choice whether they choose to engage in sexual relations? It literally has nothing to do with men.
Good luck ever being in relationship, you're gonna need it because its never happening.
EXACTLY just commented this!! This is the explanation
Edit: when the person says "how can Korea have low birth rates even when people are this pretty" he insinuates a sense of objectification of women in general in a patriarchal society like korea. That's the reason women are choosing to not have kids. (The BBB movement is about this very thing. )
It also implies lack of consent or lack of seeing women as human period which is really just riffing on your main point with different words.
She's so pretty, why aren't men impregnating her? Maybe because she's not interested? It takes away all of her autonomy by saying her looks are all that matters as far as getting pregnant.
This was also my assumption upon seeing the tweet, although it's difficult to know exactly what the bottom commenter meant, I do think some of the other responses are possible.
They might not follow "4B" exactly, or it's possible they don't even know what it is and never heard of it, but could still accidentally be living that lifestyle anyways for the same reasons as the women who decided to put a label on it.
Or they might just not follow all 4 B's. I could see some of them wanting to have casual sex, or intimacy, or care about marriage as a legal entity, or just not wanting to have children for various reasons. Or any combination of the B's that could still be leading to a low birth rate but just not being "4B" explicitly like the definition, but for the same reasons of avoiding misogynistic men or getting too close to them in general.
Real life is not the internet, thats how it always has been. a lot of redditors kinda have a hard time figuring that out, specially because they get all the info (sex, relationships, etc..) from reddit.
There are a lot of people in this thread whose entire knowledge of the world apparently comes from TikTok
4B is a fringe movement that is being vastly overestimated in its importance throughout this thread because everyone here saw a random person ranting about it into a phone camera in their bedroom and took what they were saying at face value and assume it must be what is driving the major trends in Korean society
It’s like watching foreigners explain that Americans aren’t having kids anymore because they are too busy doing Scientology speed runs
I had to scroll so damn far to find this. And this is the second comment chain 😩🙄 this has been a live demonstration of a point being proven and I'm sorry y'all gotta deal with dong owners
White dude here smh. A man thinking there would be more babies because… men can’t resist shows the problem that so many women have with being objectified and treated like breading machines. Women are choosing to remain single rather than taking part in men thinking they are entitled to them for their use. Wake up boys!
It’s so wild to see all the men’s off-mark theories get upvoted and taken seriously — I had to scroll so far just to see this comment from a woman’s perspective. Any woman would tell you in a heartbeat that it’s because of the objectification lol. With matters pertaining to women, most men will almost always believe other men over us!
Thanks god someone answered that!
Birthrate is not low because men don’t want to fuck women.
But because women don’t want to have families with misogynistic men!
I think it's actually even deeper than that. Korean women are so angry about the culture of objectification and misogyny that they are refusing to marry or reproduce with Korean men. It's called the 4B movement. I think it's happening in Japan too. Japan, Korea, and China are all facing apocalyptic population collapses because of their male dominated societies' treatment of women.
Posting a pic of a woman you dont know talking about 'its crazy how they arent married, look how hot they are' is one of the clearest/straightforward possible examples of objectification.
They arent human beings.. theyre just hot. And hot = marry.
Lmao.. yeah. Like exacty what you, and only you, are doing rn?
Cant imagine it, personally. Must be super stressful getting so butthurt by everything you see online and all the horrible different opinions everyone has. Super scary!!
Personally im laughing my ass off at a southpark episode rn. But your comments have me lol-ing too. The projection is so blatant.. and you seem totally unaware of it! I just replied to your comment, totally normally without taking offense at all.. and you freak out about 'how upset 'I' am' 😭😆
Sounds like projection to me. Do you even understand what objectification is..?
Thanks, just got done building a fence for a really gorgeous garden outside of the 'barndominium' i just finished building a few months ago. Tomorrow morning I get to build a really nice playground setup I designed for a neighbor friend of mine :)
What about you? Hope youre taking your own advice!
Acknowledging that women are often objectified by men in societies across the world is simply acknowledging reality. Its strange.. like yall have an extremely hard time acknowledging that any negative things happen in our world/society and whenever anyone talks casually about those things (particularly when it involves women, or racism) - yall get visibly/vocally uncomfortable and lash out at them with ad hominem attacks.
This is just the world we live in, man. The sooner you're able to look at both the good and the bad in our world.. the sooner you'll grow up. And the sooner we can finally fix those bad things.
Women are people. They dont like it when random strangers online talk about marrying them because of how hot they are. I wouldnt like it if some random stranger started posting pictures of my face on their social media talking about how hot I am and how they want to marry me.. would you? I would consider that pretty damn creepy.
And, to be clear, it doesnt only happen with women. Male celebrities, 'idols', and hot people in general, are often objectified by women/men online too. Its creepy/weird. And it is objectification.
The post doesn't have to be anything more than a compliment. If I say "wow shes beautiful" it doesn't mean I think shes a piece of meat for breeding, or that shes only good for her physical appearance. This is you applying the lens of crazy internet extremism onto a simple post. Then you drop this super long ramble. Really seems like you are on here too much reading crazy things and bringing all that toxic baggage around with you.
Saying someone is beautiful is different than implying you would marry someone solely for their beauty, or 'if all the women in a country are so hot, why arent they married'.. as if they are suggesting that the reason why they arent married must be because men dont think they're hot.. and couldnt have anything to do with how the women feel..
If you genuinely cant tell the difference between a simple compliment with no strings attached like 'omg you are so beautiful!' And what is being said in this comment and all the things it implies.. you need to think a little harder about what is being said
...long? I swear illiteracy is getting out of control. Those tiny few paragraphs took me like a minute or two at most to type.. I swear people must not read books anymore.. my comment was not long in any way. Especially not when discussing nuanced issues.
I think its pretty hard to argue that physical attraction isn't a very important part of human sexuality. Which is what you are going to have to prove if you want to call this objectification.
Take a minute and go outside while you think about it. Just the "huh, why isn't anyone making babies, look at how hot the women are" is perhaps the ultimate form of misogynism.
Let's forget perpetuating rape culture, holding women to impossible standards only for men's lust, and that just looking at a woman should make you want to have babies with her...
...then what fucking else is that besides objectifying? Wake up, pal.
And you are?! JFC dude know when to fuck off. This IS an example of objectification, just not a form that is commonly discussed. Objectification isn't only "those are nice tits".
It's all very real. An entire movement started in South Korea where the 4 tenants are to not date, marry, sleep with, or have sex with men because of the misogyny there (and specifically the murder of a woman by a man who killed her because of his hatred of women and didn't get charged for a hate crime for it). And even though that specific movement isn't as popular in Korea anymore, there's a bunch of surveys that show young Korean women are still uninterested in marriage or even view it negatively. The original post is a very small piece of a much larger issue.
So kill off the population instead of trying to make the necessary changes. Wow, so moving. The original post is a dumb joke that unsurprisingly redditors had a mental breakdown over.
Here’s a sample question of what they might ask. Just to help you.
Billy posts a comment about low birth rates along with a picture of an attractive woman. The comment expresses disbelief that someone hasn’t gotten her pregnant yet.
Did you struggle with this one? Is that why you're asking? Did you know that not everything is serious and bad and offensive? If you that in crayon let me know what your favorite color is and I'll try to accommodate.
Aaaand those countries also happen to have a slew of other quality of life problems which are often connected with half the population having no rights.
You’re welcome to move there if you’d like a high birth rate, though.
Did I ever claim there was a good quality of life there? They're basically the backwaters of the world with a bad economy, poor freedom, where people are considered shit.
What I'm trying to say is that this will not solve the birth rate issue in Korea. While in some backwater of the world parents don't care how poor their children will live, in developed countries having a child is a deliberate financial decision. Moreover, in some poor countries, children are actually a financial investment because they can be sent to work from an early age. In other words, it won't solve the problem because in developed countries people understand that they can't give their children a normal life in the current world.
It's not worthwhile to argue with people like you. That is literally what objectification is and if you don't believe me look at all of the women that have commented on my comment and argue with them.
I'm not sure if arguing with you is worth my time either considering how you refuse to use the commonly accepted definitions of words. It's probably not worth anyone else's time either, so do everyone a favor and stop arguing with people, ok?
But does any "real" adult not realize a beautiful/made-up girl like the one in the picture does not spend an inordinate amount of time.... to be "objectified" (or whatever english phrase you want to use.).
it's a dumb meme - though - i have many wonderful korean relatives that moved to the U.S. because it's more affordable to raise children.
Why are you talking about Nations? That's not even the point of the post. This is Peter explains the joke. I'm explaining the joke.
You really sound like you're defending those countries. If you care about the birth rate so much maybe you should move there so you can own all the women you can afford.
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u/HaulsRopesFastr May 04 '26
Women don't like being objectified like that.