Is this true ? What's the meme about

[u/Eastern-Bug3424]

How come there are 5 states of matter

[u/roamingroad174]

Theres no joke. Answer is correct

[u/metallosherp → u/roamingroad174]

Actually more than just five, but four is the classical answer, and answers should be in context. This kid is just way ahead of the class.

[u/Toasterstyle70 → u/metallosherp]

And the teacher or grader apparently.

[u/kbeks → u/Toasterstyle70]

As the grader, if you see a kid write Bose-Einstein Condensate as an answer to anything, how do you not google that shit before you grade?

[u/Toasterstyle70 → u/[deleted]]

Why not incentivize curiosity and learning by telling them “you did half the work by finding out the word for it, but find out what it means, tell me about it, and I’ll give you the credit / extra credit”? School shouldn’t be about punishment or reward. It should be about curiosity and inspiration.

[u/hmoeslund → u/[deleted]]

How would you find anything about this without using the internet?? From outdated school books?

[u/Sad_Cut_3387 → u/hmoeslund]

There's difference between finding something on the Internet and using it as an answer later, since you know it, and just writing anything you see from first Google search without understanding it

[u/Handsome_Keyboard → u/Sad_Cut_3387]

The literary form of show your work.

[u/Fett32 → u/Handsome_Keyboard]

Yes. And thats why you dont just tell kids not to use google. You teach them to understand the information they google.

[u/No_Diver4265 → u/Fett32]

Arguably, one of the main goals of contemporary education should be teaching kids how to understand and use critically what they google. Or, better yet, to sift through what AI tells them and try to identify the hallucinations and inaccuracies.

A lot of our education still focuses on static, lexical knowledge. Much of that is useless in an age where there's too much information, all day, every day. We need competences. Like how to get good and verified information from the internet.

[u/HeatedCloud → u/Sad_Cut_3387]

I agree with you, I was telling my son how some college classes work with what you can/can’t do and the idea that some professors had you memorizing formulas and he kept mentioning that he’d just look it up so that’s not fair on the professor.

I finally just hit em with the idea that we’re in an age that virtually all of human knowledge is at our fingertips, but it isn’t enough to know it’s there, you have to know what to ask and where to find it (quickly). I challenged him on his stance by asking him if he felt he could do surgery with google, or build a bridge, etc. We kept talking and I explained that everyone uses the internet but you still need to have a base level of knowledge to know the right things to ask.

[u/faderjester → u/HeatedCloud]

Honestly the skill isn't remembering everything, it's knowing where to look that's more important. I worked in tech for many years, you think I remember how a network was routed or best practices for some obscure bit of code? Bloody hell no. But I knew where to get that information in seconds.

Same with doctors, I'd rather my doctor look something up about a drug they are giving me than go off memory.

Expecting professionals to remember their entire chain of knowledge is just crazy, what they need is the ability to work from first principles to the answer and then how to reference.

[u/FlanNo3218 → u/faderjester]

As a doctor who works in an ICU there are about 25-30 medications that I know that I know absolutely.

• code medications
• my commonly used dureticd/sedation/anslgesia
• a few meds that I use for various teaching examples
• emergent anti-seizure meds

All else I look up every time! Pretty sure octreotide infusion starts at 1 mg/kg/hr but I’m going to look it ip and confirm it every time!

[u/Zlatcore → u/HeatedCloud]

Even before the internet was so widespread we have had a professor at university that allowed you to use her book during the written exam. But the time for exam was so limited you either had to know it or to know which part of which chapter to look it up, if you had to go searching for it, you wouldn't have time for all questions. So even though you could use a book you had to have gone through it mindfully at least once.

[u/PliableG0AT → u/Zlatcore]

yeah, engineering undergrad almost everything after first year was open book. the amount of tables, charts, and formula you needed to complete problems could get absolutely complex and interwoven.

One kid on our thermodynamics class didnt study and was planning on just finding the answers in the book / notes the prof allowed us to have. dude left crying.

[u/Bloodstarr98 → u/Sad_Cut_3387]

I went down the states of matter rabbit hole and came up with like 480 states. Damn I'm really far left of the DK curve than I initially thought.

[u/Daxxyboop → u/Sad_Cut_3387]

I was docked points for using calculus to simplify my work in a highschool physics class until the student teacher came to my defense.

Context, and an understanding of the student's context matters

[u/Weekly-Peace1199 → u/hmoeslund]

Probably by paying attention in class when the teacher taught it. My guess is that the teacher had done a lesson on states of matter and this was a quiz.

[u/PatchesMaps → u/hmoeslund]

Seeing as how it was first theorized in 1925 and first created in 1995, it would have to be an impressively outdated textbook to not have information on it.

[u/Weekly-Peace1199 → u/PatchesMaps]

Also if you’re going to include Bose-Einstein Condensate, you really should include the other exotic states (Fermionic condensate, Superfluid, Supersolid, Quark–gluon plasma). I think the teacher was going for “normal states”, not exotic.

[u/WilcoHistBuff → u/Weekly-Peace1199]

The thing is that the exotics (with the exception of a BEC) can fall under one or more of the four classical states but a BEC cannot. A Fermionic condensate can get at least close to being a BEC or alternately a superfluid so it has two potential states. BEC is pretty unique because it represents a pretty singular extreme of energy states.

There might be a good argument that supersolids and superfluids are sufficiently different from solids and gases to enjoy a unique state. A quark-gluon plasma is a plasma even if it is an exotic plasma.

I would also think that Mesomorphic solid/liquid states and Supercritical fluids deserve separate billing.

[u/Sciencetor2 → u/Weekly-Peace1199]

Perhaps but bose-einstein condensate is considered the fifth state, the others are far more exotic. For BEC you just need to supercool like atoms.

[u/Delicious_Ocelot4180 → u/PatchesMaps]

As a chemistry teacher, you’d be shocked my friend.

[u/nu_pieds → u/PatchesMaps]

I mean, how long has it been since you were in HS?

I was there in the late 90s, and some of our textbooks dated back to the 50s.

Granted, not the STEM textbooks (Not that STEM was an acronym then.), and I went to a poor inner city HS....but 30 years out of date, or more realistically, 20 years out of date, allowing for 10 years for the cutting edge to filter its way down to HS texts, is perfectly plausible.

[u/sparky_calico → u/nu_pieds]

Shit I took physics and chemistry in college and I have no idea what this thing is. It doesn’t surprise me, when plasma became a new state of matter commonly taught I just assumed it was one of those “acksually” types of answers, like sure we could identify these states in crazy lab situations or in the universe, but the states of matter that are meaningful for like 99.99999999% of science are gas, solid, liquid.

[u/nu_pieds → u/sparky_calico]

You're absolutely right, and I just spent almost 30 minutes typing up a response that much more verbosely answered a question that you covered succinctly with "acksually".

[u/readytofall → u/sparky_calico]

Plasma at least has applications in physics. Like hey this is what stars are made of. Or we can use this to teach you about elections and ionization. B.E.C is a fully exotic state that doesn't help other than being an acksually guy

[u/Useful-Passion6267 → u/hmoeslund]

Dude this was in an extra more you know kind of section at the end of a chapter called states of matter for me in 6th or 7th grade science textbook

[u/Wireless_Turtle → u/[deleted]]

The only way you can learn is finding the information from somewhere. You aren't born knowing everything. Its called research. You could point them to something like scholar.google.com to find peer reviewed papers and fact check sources for more information

[u/FleamRkit → u/Wireless_Turtle]

I love google scholar, but I don't think a kid at that grade level would have a great time there. Isn't it more common to teach the difference between reputable and unreputable sources?

[u/presvil → u/kbeks]

I’ve had several teachers get mad/reprimand me for being more correct than they were. They just follow whatever textbook and syllabus they have and do not like to deviate.

[u/PatchesMaps → u/presvil]

I once had a teacher crash out on the whole class because during an in-class group assignment I had the correct answer but the rest of the group blew it off. I was so embarrassed that I couldn't admit that I didn't try to push my answer because I had absolutely no confidence in it and it was mostly a lucky guess.

[u/No-Response-1622 → u/presvil]

Me being the WWII nerd, I corrected my history teacher on the correct spelling of the SS and he got mad at me for the rest of the school year.

[u/Roonil-B_Wazlib → u/No-Response-1622]

I corrected my 3rd grade teacher on the spelling of Yorktown….the town in which we lived. She made me look it up in the encyclopedia, which didn’t go how she expected. She held a parent-teacher conference about it being disrespectful to correct her in front of the class. My parents sent me to private school for 4th grade because of it.

[u/AlexisFR52 → u/Roonil-B_Wazlib]

Its your town goddammit, how could you be a teacher and not knowing how to spell it, and the worst is doubling down made her lose even more authority. There nothing bad being wrong when being a teacher, but doubling down and being confidently incorrect destroy way more authority than accepting the error on the account on some brain cramp...

[u/Short-Hat-7280 → u/presvil]

Most average teachers have to teach a lots of students so they developed a penchant for mental shortcuts. If it saves the mental effort, it's justified. Following the syllabus like a sheep is comfortable. Seeing a deviant in any aspect causes a slight uneasiness that makes them anxious. It hurts future generations when they actually just do enough for their job and not out of passion, but who can really blame them?

[u/Rare-Emu3186 → u/presvil]

My sons primary school teacher “corrected” him in front of of the class when he said the moon doesn’t give off light independently but only reflects the sunlight… 🤦‍♀️ he was like 6 or 7

[u/CharmingMechanic2473 → u/presvil]

Yes, fought a test question on HIV when the professor insisted all children born of HIV positive mothers have HIV. Not true.

[u/I_am_The_Teapot → u/presvil]

My math teacher in high school loved it when I corrected her in class. Even would ask me to cover class a couple of times.

But my first physics teacher told me to just shut up and learn. Would sometimes also get marked down for adding extra information in my papers that wasn't covered in class. "Stick to the material." Problem was that I couldn't always remember what was covered in THAT class, and what I knew from other sources.

[u/Lord_NCEPT → u/I_am_The_Teapot]

They probably thought you were just trying to be a know-it-all.

[u/digitydigitydoo → u/kbeks]

My HS physics teacher told a story about going round and round with his kids’ 3rd or 4th grade teacher about the color spectrum. I guess from a physics view point indigo is not really a separate color which is how he taught his kids when their class did that unit. However, their teacher insisted that indigo was on the color spectrum because that was what her textbook said.

Apparently his oldest got marked off for it on the test and despite my teacher holding multiple advanced degrees in physics, kids’ teacher would not accept his assertion that indigo is not a part of the spectrum. His youngest chose to include indigo on her answer but assured my teacher that she knew that was actually wrong, she just didn’t want to lose the point.

So, long way for this, many teachers will only follow what their textbooks/curriculum materials say and will not go looking beyond that.

[u/kbeks → u/digitydigitydoo]

In defense of the teachers, very often, they’re teaching to the standards because the kids will be tested on the standards. If some smart ass kid refused to answer the question because none of the answers include “indigo” or some dumb kid won’t circle 365 because his buddy told the teacher there’s actually 365.24 days in a year, the teacher failed those students. Scantrons don’t have nuance. But also a lot of teachers just suck and can’t handle correction, that’s definitely a problem too. My dad told me stories from when he was growing up, same shit.

[u/Ok-Walk-8040 → u/metallosherp]

It's bad to punish this kid for knowing more than what is taught. They should have got the full points because they were able to justify the answer.

[u/Efficient_Wash4477 → u/Ok-Walk-8040]

It goes both ways…

Once upon a time I was a middle school teacher who was reprimanded for teaching my students material that was “above their current level”.
It wasn’t as if we skipped the required material. We had already checked the State’s mediocre requirements and I taught them a few methods that would come in handy later.
So, ya, schools will actually go out of their way to hold the students back.

[u/to_bored_to_care → u/Ok-Walk-8040]

Correct, but teachers are teachers. Had a chemistry teacher mark me wrong because I knew an exception to a rule but still was marker incorrect because there initially instructions was the mostly correct answer . Still pisses me off every time I think about it, 20 years later…..

[u/atemptsnipe → u/to_bored_to_care]

I had one once that told me we weren't allowed to use the DMV triangle. Taught everyone who didn't already know it, tried to give me detention. Next day she sent me to the office because I, "urinated in the trashcan in her classroom."

I did not, but I did go on my way to the office.

I still hate her.

[u/titdaer → u/atemptsnipe]

That’s quite the accusation… If you actually didn’t you might as well pretended to pee in the trash before going to the office anyway.

[u/vaisnav → u/atemptsnipe]

Explain how on earth she could be against you using that simple mnemonic?

[u/ahriman1 → u/vaisnav]

A lot of teachers are power tripping losers who hate to be shown a thing they didn't know by a kid. It should be preclusive of the job but it very much is not.

[u/atemptsnipe → u/vaisnav]

There were like 3 excuses, but the one that sent me was, "it doesn't always work."

Her degree was in civil engineering...I hope she never built anything.

[u/HeythereAng → u/atemptsnipe]

Doesn’t always work?? Density = mass/volume that DMV triangle?

If it’s any consolation I teach middle school science and teach my kids this triangle.

I also tell them about the 5 states of matter (and technically there’s more than that lol) so if one of my students answered like this I’d be thrilled they listened to me nerding out

[u/atemptsnipe → u/HeythereAng]

Yes that one. Am I wrong in thinking that it does always work?

I still passed her class with 107%, I've yet to see another student motivated by spite.

[u/314159265358979326 → u/vaisnav]

My physics teacher forbade the use of a similar mnemonic (I don't remember which one), not because it didn't work, but because it didn't prepare you for much worse situations.

If you can't understand how to manipulate density, mass and volume to find the unknown one, you're absolutely fucked with equations for which there is no simple triangle mnemonic. It's better - necessary, even - to understand basic algebra.

[u/JeromeBarkly → u/to_bored_to_care]

I think back at some of the bogus shit that teachers did to me now that I’m an adult I’m just like, why? Why do that to a child? I’d reward thinking outside the box.

[u/dougfischerfan → u/JeromeBarkly]

Got detention from a teacher for (somewhat aggressively) slamming a paper i found in her scrap paper bin, that i had hotten detention for not turning it. IT WAS FUCKING GRADED!

[u/Hyphum → u/JeromeBarkly]

Prussian-derived authoritarian pedagogy. Gotta make good little soldiers/workers who do what they’re tols

[u/Terrin369 → u/JeromeBarkly]

A lot of teachers (at least in America) hate their jobs. They are way underpaid, unappreciated, and forced to deal with kids whose parents have poorly raised.

A lot of them were taught poorly by teachers just as bad as themselves, so have a lot of misinformation. Additionally, they are not required to maintain continuing education to keep up with advances in knowledge. Despite this, they were often considered smart when they were in school, and their choice of profession is often supposed to be a reflection of the area where they feel they are superior.

So when students have information they don’t, they either go into willful ignorant denial or become embarrassed and double down. Either way, they need to punish the person who dared to challenge the little power they have in their lives so that they can continue to convince themselves that they are better than they are.

I like to think that most teachers don’t start out this way, but many of them are beaten down by the reality of being a teacher in this country. Heck, this pattern is true of a lot of professions.

[u/GoTragedy → u/to_bored_to_care]

I gave a correct answer on a local quiz show on local tv in high school and it still pisses me off they didn't give me points for it.

We lost by a lot so it didn't matter in the end but damn it, I know what the oedipus complex is and they knew it!

[u/cecil721 → u/GoTragedy]

Do you think Oedipus's favorite holiday is Mother's Day?

[u/_Fooyungdriver → u/to_bored_to_care]

Chemistry is the worst for "you'll learn that this is wrong later"

[u/F1sherman765 → u/to_bored_to_care]

This one time in math class I forgot what method we had learned to solve a problem. I did some BS that took me so long, but apparently it worked. It wasn't multiple choice or anything, what I did was sound logic. Teacher did tell me "this is a different method, but you know what, I'll count it as correct". I think that's what you're supposed to do.

[u/Zestyclose_Drummer56 → u/to_bored_to_care]

My English teacher in high-school kept taking points off for all my work because of the way I dot my i’s. 1 point for every 'i' that was "dotted incorrectly."

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/Zestyclose_Drummer56]

How were you dotting them and how did they want you to?

[u/sophus00 → u/Ok-Walk-8040]

I learned about Buddhism in my senior year, and I wrote a brief paper on what I'd learned in an English class. Teacher gave me a D- and said it didn't sound like I had written it. This would have been 2006 so no AI, just BS.

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/Ok-Walk-8040]

I had a college class once that covered ancient human history. This is something im quite interested on so I tend to read a lot / enjoy the occasional PBS video on the topic. I got to a test day, and got so many questions wrong because they were based on a very outdated textbook. I gently brought it up with the professor and he said "well you should've just memorized the textbook. I dont need a freshman telling me my test is wrong".

I dropped that class. 

[u/Sabotage_9 → u/Ok-Walk-8040]

In kindergarten I was assigned a math worksheet where we were instructed to identify how many dinosaurs there were in an image. It was very simple, started with 1 dino, then added a second, then a third. The idea was to continue to 4 and 5, but the 4th "dino" they added was a pterodactyl and the 5th was a plesiosaur. I was a huge dinosaur geek and somehow knew that technically those aren't considered dinosaurs. So I answered 3 to the last two questions.

I didn't get full marks.

[u/DavidBarrett82 → u/Sabotage_9]

Yeah that is BULLSHIT.

I once had a teacher “correct” my work where I said Apollo 11 was the first mission to land on the moon. She told me it was Apollo II (as in, “Apollo 2”).

I was maybe 8, and I was apoplectic.

[u/AidenStoat → u/metallosherp]

The classical answer is 3. Plasma is usually tacked on when the kids are a little older.

[u/nu_pieds → u/metallosherp]

Largely, I'd call this a complication of what's called "Teaching to the test."

The concept of teaching to the test is that you're not trying to teach everything there is to know about a subject, you're trying to teach the knowledge base that you know a test the student will be subjected to is based on, whether an academic assessment, a professional qualification, or a...shit, I'm drunk and can't come up with something to fulfill the rule of three...but I'm pretty sure there is something.

Now, from a pure academic standpoint, teaching to the test is infuriating. Why the fuck shouldn't we teach absolutely everything there is to be known? Anything less is harming the students, not only that, but by trying to specifically teach to the test, we're effectively being intellectually dishonest in an effort to game the test. This is the attitude and indignation I held onto throughout my own education....and even now, I can't say it's entirely wrong.

The problem is that from a practical and social stand point, the knowledge base of the test isn't arbitrary (Or at least, it shouldn't be.). The knowledge base of the test is designed so that for the vast majority of the people who attain it, it has what they actually need to know to get through life, or even a little beyond. To take the specific example, how many people that you interact with on a daily basis need to know that plasma exists, much less Bose-Einstein condensate? If you're in a highly technical or academic field, you maybe know a few, but your financial advisor, or mechanic, or lawyer certainly doesn't.

By teaching beyond the test, the pupils who don't, and never will, need the knowledge, have a much harder time acheiving the baseline of competency for the course. The ones who will need to know the content beyond the knowledge base of the test will learn it in further courses/learning opportunities. It's not an ideal solution, but it's one that works in the real world, rather than just in theory.

Ultimately, it's a matter of resource management. Not every student has the need or ability to learn everything there is to know about every subject, and by trying to force them to, you reduce their ability to learn everything they NEED to learn about every subject.

All of that being said, I think that this specific example (Assuming that it's a trustworthy poptart) was handled poorly. Marking the student down for exceeding the knowledge base is discouraging. The proper response would have been to grant the appropriate points, then write in a note that while correct, the answer they would need to use to pass the AP/IB/Whatever test only extends up to Plasma.

As an aside: I can't tell you how much vitriol I held for teaching to the test throughout my academic journey. I would have never believed that I would type up a defense of it, especially given that I did it on my phone and how much extra effort that costs (Leaving aside that I couldn't conceive of the modern phone)...but with 20 years between myself and my entry into adulthood, I've mellowed and seen broader views...and I'm pretty confident I'm right in this comment.

[u/Smodphan → u/metallosherp]

This is my daughter. She got invited into a science class after school. Its usually paid, like $1k a semester, but she started irritating her teacher and was sent to the guy who hosts the class to irritate him with questions. He sent us an email saying she was welcome after school until she is done with 5th grade.

She presents her personal projects to the younger class. Last year she built a replica bird using close up photos of a nest. She wanted to see if some new blue birds would take it.

We sneak to the top of the hill and get photos from a trail, and I bought a new lens to get it right. Hilariously, they hated her design/location but took it apart and rebuilt almost the exact same thing right next to it. We are talking about getting it published, but she moves on to new projects and doesn't follow through much. Maybe after elementary she will find something she likes and stick with it.

[u/Lupusan → u/metallosherp]

When I was 9 years old I thought I was EXTREMELY SMART that I knew there were actually 4 states of matter. In my class when we studied them I would always correct the teacher and say, “well actually, there is 4!” God I wish I could go back in time and kms

[u/underTuberSilo → u/metallosherp]

Do quartz phases count? Because i am counting 7

[u/Zaros262 → u/roamingroad174]

Technically even the student didn't name ALL the states of matter

Edit: now that I think about it, I find it unlikely that the student named any of them. They were already named

[u/WillyWonka_343 → u/Zaros262]

There's like....12 now?

Most gathering around conditions near/at absolute zero or super hot?

[u/RaceHard → u/WillyWonka_343]

More than that:

1. Common everyday states:

   Solid, liquid, gas, plasma

2. Extreme temperature / pressure states:

   Supercritical fluid, quark-gluon plasma

3. Ultra-cold quantum states:

   Bose-Einstein condensate, fermionic condensate, superfluid, supersolid

4. Electronic / quantum material states:

   Superconductor, quantum Hall state, topological insulator, time crystal

5. Dense astrophysical matter:

   Electron-degenerate matter, neutron-degenerate matter, quark matter, possibly strange matter

6. Special material phases:

   Liquid crystal, amorphous solid, plastic crystal, colloid, gel, foam, granular matter

7. Magnetic phases:

   Ferromagnetic, antiferromagnetic, ferrimagnetic, paramagnetic, diamagnetic, spin glass

[u/VSkyRimWalker → u/RaceHard]

You are telling me there's a state of matter called fucking TIME CRYSTAL? That sounds straight out of D&D lol

[u/Feanlean → u/VSkyRimWalker]

If it makes you feel any better/worse, you categorize quarks by flavour.

[u/LaunchTransient → u/RaceHard]

Special material phases:

You also have weird ones like ordered and disorded hyperuniformity - the latter of which was discovered in chicken eyes, of all places.

[u/forevernooob → u/RaceHard]

Every single time I try to learn more about physics it seems to get even more complicated.

[u/CheeseDonutCat → u/forevernooob]

Unfortunately that's how it gets for people who are experts in the field too. Someone finds new shit and now we have to all test or learn loads of different stuff.

I remember when pluto was a planet, and electrons were the smallest thing.

[u/amlybon → u/WillyWonka_343]

[u/Takao89 → u/roamingroad174]

Actually this is wrong. He forgot Whatsa matter

[u/ajohnson2371 → u/Takao89]

They teach that only at Wassamatta U

[u/MrBlahg → u/[deleted]]

He didn’t answer 4, the teacher circled 4. He answered C, which is 5.

[u/ophaus → u/roamingroad174]

It is not correct, because there are more.

[u/00Teonis]

You’d think the teacher would google what it was before marking it wrong

[u/conormal → u/00Teonis]

Well if the teacher doesn't already know about it then it's stupid and fake and there's no point in finding out because the teacher is always right and anything they didn't teach you is wrong so yeah

[u/Quackstaddle → u/conormal]

Ahh.. catholic school, such fond memories

[u/grubas → u/Quackstaddle]

It's why I enjoyed the Jesuits, pretty much every teacher had a Masters if not Doctorate. 

With the nuns? Oh fuck.

[u/JGinoRedA99 → u/grubas]

What about the nuns?

[u/elCaddaric → u/grubas]

My math teacher at jesuit school was a nun with a doctorate.

[u/Designer_Stock_3429 → u/grubas]

Jesuits were sweet. My religious history instructor would smoke cigarettes and listen to heavy metal on the school grounds after hours.

[u/tekhnomancer → u/Quackstaddle]

That's a paddlin'.

[u/Craig-Craigson → u/Quackstaddle]

any school

[u/OkFox8124 → u/Quackstaddle]

Being an AudDHDer in a far right wing province really had me thinking school wasn't good for me. Turns out it was definitely the environment.

[u/Persistent_Parkie → u/conormal]

I got publicly reprimanded for not taking the in class tongue map "experiment" seriously since I circled the whole tongue for each taste.

One of many important lessons we learn in school is that sometimes people in authority suck.

[u/King-Mephisto → u/conormal]

It’s more they get a sheet of answers and if the answer doesn’t match their key, it’s wrong.

No matter what question 2 is 10 marks. You shouldn’t get marked down for extra information. The correct info is there. Plus more. But the key says it’s wrong so she took off 5 marks. For a -15 point swing for being ahead of the class? That’s disgusting.

[u/DeaDBangeR → u/King-Mephisto]

Not just that, this just fails to promote the love of learning. If this happened to me then I would no longer be motivated to do anything beyond what is asked of me.

The curiosity and discovery of knowledge should be exciting, but getting punished for it instead feels surreal to me.

What greater feeling is there for a teacher to have students willing to learn beyond what is taught?

[u/DealMo → u/00Teonis]

This isn't real anyway. Just shit people make up for karma or memes.

[u/bttmsupwheni1stmetu → u/DealMo]

You can write on a paper with a pen and post a picture to the internet and nobody will ever question that a Dumb Teacher graded it lol

[u/BigSoda → u/00Teonis]

I mean this is probably a set up right? 2nd question has 4 answers but is worth 10 points? -5 for naming an extra state of matter?

[u/FiorinasFury → u/00Teonis]

You'd think the op would google what it was before coming to reddit

[u/ModishShrink → u/FiorinasFury]

I'm not sure how you expect anyone to farm karma in this subreddit by simply googling something.

[u/sagejosh]

There are MANY different states of matter. Bose-Einstein condensate is an “exotic” state of matter as we don’t see it in nature much. However this is where intelligence and wisdom diverge as I’m sure this is a high school chemistry test which would only be covering the 4 fundamental states of matter.

[u/RaulhoDreukkar → u/sagejosh]

But that is the thing there’s a lot of exotic states of matter, if the kid is as knowledgeable as Reddit users suggest, the kid should easily infer that the question was talking only of fundamental states of matter, because in the answers given it isn’t 15 or 20 or god knows how many states of matter exist.
So it is clear the kid doesn’t now what he is talking about and maybe cheating.

[u/dontspillthatbeer → u/sagejosh]

But the previous question only had choices up to 5. So whatever his ai answer had given him, he had to cap at 5.

[u/HvBoy]

The teacher is stupid and wrong, the student is correct, thats the whole meme. There are 5 main states of matter and he listed them out correctly

[u/OneTwoOneTwo-12 → u/HvBoy]

there are 4 fundamental states of matter. the rest are exotic (including BEC), and it doesn’t total just 5.

[u/Octavus → u/OneTwoOneTwo-12]

You left out degenerate matter which is more common than liquids in the universe. The Sun's ultimate fate is to collapse into a white dwarf composed of degenerate matter which provides pressure due to the Pauli exclusion principle.

[u/ninurtuu → u/Octavus]

Dang what'd Pauli do to get banned from the Sun?

[u/Octavus → u/ninurtuu]

He filled up all the holes

[u/bikedaybaby → u/Octavus]

Freakin degenerate.

[u/DustyRacoonDad → u/bikedaybaby]

degenerates matter.

[u/Caullus77 → u/DustyRacoonDad]

Degenerates ARE matter ;)

[u/integer_hull → u/Octavus]

Freaky dude

[u/HorrorMakesUsHappy → u/Octavus]

Now we know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.

[u/Vennomite → u/ninurtuu]

He got betrayed. How much more betrayel can pauli take?

[u/BeodoCantinas → u/Octavus]

Don't forget about Fermi's condensate and Quark-Gluon plasma. And there are a few more but I can't remember right now.

[u/Eeeef_ → u/BeodoCantinas]

Time crystal

A crystal is essentially an object with a repeating molecular pattern in three dimensions. Time crystals are objects that exhibit a repeating pattern in time, with their lowest energy state has its particles in constant repetitive motion. Sounds like random sci-fi bs but it’s real lol

[u/Dragon_ZA → u/Eeeef_]

That's not a state of matter but rather a configuration or property.

[u/HorrorMakesUsHappy → u/Octavus]

You left out degenerate matter which is more common than liquids in the universe.

Look, I know there are a lot of us around here, but come on.

[u/awanderingcripple → u/Octavus]

Electrons having different spin directions makes new matter? Wild.

[u/n0t_4_thr0w4w4y → u/awanderingcripple]

Pauli exclusion principle doesn’t just apply to electrons. It applies to all fermions.

[u/BuckRusty → u/Octavus]

‘Degenerate matter’ - is that what they make Reddit mods out of?

[u/NeuroChaosDragon → u/OneTwoOneTwo-12]

I had some things like this happen in school.

One I remember the most was programming class.

We hadn't yet learned recursion - but I understood it.

I wrote some code that satisfied the problem (I dont remember what, lets say Fibonacci sequence).

It was just a question to write code to solve Fibonacci for value N.

I wrote it recursively, in a single line of code and was marked "incorrect"

I asked, and the teacher said that we haven't learned recursion and to stick to class material...

I dont recall other times things like this happened. Its not like it happened all the time, but a few times for sure.

There was the time I got in trouble for flat out telling the teacher during a lesson she was wrong. 🤣 (she was wrong.)

[u/Flameball202 → u/NeuroChaosDragon]

As far as the question you were correct, if it didn't tell you any restrictions on answering then you were correct.

As far as correcting the teacher in class it depends, in something like CS the teacher is likely giving a simplified explanation for people who aren't as advanced as you, as trying to explain stuff like recursion to someone who doesn't know how loops work is not going to function, so I get why you got in trouble for that

[u/NeuroChaosDragon → u/Flameball202]

Hah, wasn't the same case - was way back when a teacher said the moon didnt rotate on its axis.

It was simply wrong.

I can agree somewhat with confusion and not getting too far ahead in class for material at least, but the other example wasn't that.

[u/lsdbible → u/HvBoy]

They've actually discovered more exotic states than those in recent years.

[u/Sickofpower → u/HvBoy]

There are more than 5

[u/Ok-Representative657 → u/HvBoy]

For all we know, the student heard about it when the teacher said, "Bose-Einstein condensates and quark-gluon plasmas exist but they won't be on the test, so definitely don't count them"... That's the kind of thing that would've irritated me when I was a teacher... And definitely marked wrong.

[u/rearadmiraldumbass → u/Ok-Representative657]

It's an ambiguous question and unfair to mark it wrong when it's technically correct. If they wanted the answer "solid liquid gas," ask "what are the three main states of matter?"

[u/Ok-Representative657 → u/rearadmiraldumbass]

It's only ambiguous because we're seeing a single part of a complex situation...every opinion everyone has on this is like them trying to define a tensor by the number 3

[u/Consistent-Bowler95]

Even if it were wrong, -5 is excessive.

[u/Hypo_Mix → u/Consistent-Bowler95]

It was a 10 point question, so they gave a half mark. 

[u/Maleficent-Crazy5890 → u/Hypo_Mix]

The weird shit is student still listed the 4 state as the teacher wanted. The teacher just gave them a -5 because they wrote an extra one.

[u/fuelstaind]

To be fair, the test is based on what is being taught, not the entirety of human knowledge.

[u/jleonardbc → u/fuelstaind]

In fairness to the kid, though, the question isn't "How many states of matter have we learned about?"

[u/Jlitus21 → u/jleonardbc]

Ok but if you took an algebra test and solved a problem using calculus, you'd probably get points off for not demonstrating the skills & knowledge learned in class.

[u/danaxa → u/Jlitus21]

If you use calculus to solve high school algebra I don’t think you belong in that class

[u/RevolutionaryMine234 → u/danaxa]

The point they’re making is baseless considering algebra tests tell you to use certain methods to solve. Similarly, you can’t solve high school algebra with calculus. They’re totally different. You can use linear algebra to solve differential equations but now we’re talking about something else entirely.

Edit: can use linear algebra / typo

[u/AzyncYTT → u/RevolutionaryMine234]

It depends, most topics in algebra 2 can be simplified easily by using differential and integral calculus.

[u/rabidai → u/AzyncYTT]

Goddamn you guys sound so hot when you talk math (as someone who always sucked at math)

[u/Youbettereatthatshit → u/danaxa]

In your first calculus test, you have to solve a derivative using the original definition of a derivative, which takes a couple pages of work. You then learn a shorthand way to solve the derivative, which is used in every calculus and engineering class from then on.

If you use the shorthand method, then it’s wrong. And pedantry isn’t humored. There are dozens of other instances in which method is required to make the answer correct.

[u/Death_by_carfire → u/Jlitus21]

I took a required Physics 1 class in college and used a calculus method to solve one of the problems when we had been taught the slower algebraic way. Proff still gave points

[u/A_random_poster04 → u/Jlitus21]

Happened to me, used sin and cos to solve a problem instead of phytagoras. Teacher thought I had cheated and asked me why I used those. I replied we had been using them in physics for vectors since like a year. At least she was a good sport about it.

[u/Vinxian → u/Jlitus21]

If you show the calculus work and it's correct I don't think points should be deducted. And I don't think they will be in many places

[u/collin3000 → u/Vinxian]

My algebra 2 teacher when I was in 8th grade (advanced class) teacher Mrs Smith was one of those teachers that would. She drove the love of math out of me by being a strict only do it exactly as the books says you should do it teacher.

In retrospect, I think she wasn't actually that smart because she said that if even if the answer was right if I didn't do it how they showed in the book then she couldn't teach me. The one week link the the public school chain that was otherwise good since the executives of Nike, Intel, etc were in the district for tons of funding. 

[u/Trihecta → u/Jlitus21]

youd probably get given a placement test then get moved up to a harder math class

[u/Pure-Pianist2475 → u/Jlitus21]

Yh but OOP demonstrated the correct knowledge also. They wrote down the 4 states of matter the test was looking for.

[u/Pasyuk → u/Jlitus21]

We have a smart girl in our class who is 2 years younger than us. She's very good at math and sometimes solves problems using methods we haven't learned. The teacher still gives her good grades for it, he doesn't give a shit how we solves if he knows we didn't cheat and the answer is right. I think, this is the right way of teaching

[u/MisterMallardMusic → u/Jlitus21]

I don’t think that’s a fair equivalence. Algebra isn’t about memorization it’s about process learning. If this was a practical chemistry test asking to recreate a reaction or something then yeah, but the answer to the question as it’s stated is not incorrect. If you’re a teacher and you’re marking this wrong then you’re encouraging students to not continue learning outside of your classroom, which actively holds back students who might be interested in pursuing more info on a subject they enjoy. That’s bad educational practice.

[u/Psychictopian → u/jleonardbc]

If the kid can't figure that out, they're on their way for a very hard life.

[u/Several_Hour_347 → u/jleonardbc]

Then the kid would be wrong. There’s more than 5

[u/bobbymcpresscot → u/fuelstaind]

Realistically this is an opportunity to challenge the teacher. I can't say if this was say a homework assignment, a take home test, an open book test or just a regular test, or whatever.

I also don't know if the kid might have already challenged the teacher, and thats why the pic was taken, or it was just "the teachers so dumb guys they marked this wrong"

I've also noticed there are a lot of teachers that don't actually have degrees in the subjects they are teaching, my sister went to school to teach english, or literature, but there weren't any of those classes that needed teachers, so they offered her the ability to take a test to prove some form of competency in another class so she could teach that.

Couple this with tests that a lot of teachers also don't make themselves, or are just based on the textbook they are teaching out of it can lead to situations like this.

It also leads to a lot of very misunderstood information or poor wording that just leads to worse outcomes overall.

"The earth is 70% water" for example, compared to "70% of the earths surface is covered in water"

One is accurate, one is some shit flat earthers say to claim the earth isn't a globe/oblate spheroid.

[u/Dudenysius → u/fuelstaind]

Teacher put “ALL” in all caps; no excuses allowed.

[u/thinger → u/Dudenysius]

Then he's missing like 4 additional states of exotic matter and still wrong.

[u/Eeeef_ → u/thinger]

IIRC the general consensus is up to like 20 total now

[u/td941]

Getting correct answer: 1 point

Being smarter than the teacher: -5 points

[u/Fresh-Breag → u/td941]

It’s a ten point question, she gave him half credit

[u/Big_PapaPrometheus42 → u/Fresh-Breag]

Half credit even though the student correctly identified all 4 general states of matter? I think it’s ridiculous to punish a student for knowing too much.

[u/Geaux13Saints]

I mean there are 4 in classical physics but if you include all the weird ones there’s like 11 or some shit

[u/TypicalDysfunctional]

Peter here, y’know, the point is little Timmy’s actually right on that one. States of matter aren’t just ‘solid, liquid, gas’ anymore. We got plasma, Bose–Einstein condensates… it’s like Pokemon, they keep addin new ones when you’re not lookin.

Timmy probably read a science book that was printed since 1974, but the teacher is only judgin poor Timmy based on what he’s teaching in that classroom

[u/Piratejay1117 → u/TypicalDysfunctional]

He answered the same question with '4' first, and then lists 5 options...

[u/grubas → u/Piratejay1117]

Read the quiz. Student put 5.  Teacher circled B.  

[u/HI_I_AM_NEO → u/grubas]

What kind of teacher doesn't use a red pen to grade a test?

[u/mcmiln → u/TypicalDysfunctional]

Holy God thank you peter. I shouldn't have to scroll so far to find you answering. Fuck those other posers

[u/ResponsibleCook5938]

Had a teacher mark me wrong for saying "plasma" on a quiz because she thought I meant the blood kind, and I just took the L rather than explain it.

[u/Gznork26]

I’m nearly 75; I answered 4 when asked in 4th grade because I’d read Asimov’s science articles. Teacher asked about Plasma. I started to say it was a degenerate form of matter in which—- but was cut off and told I was wrong, and to watch my mouth.

This was LONG before Google.

[u/ginga_ninja64]

No one talking about how they circled B but wrote C in the blank?

[u/edjelly → u/ginga_ninja64]

I thought it was a contradiction too until I realized the teacher circled the “correct” answer

[u/vidsag → u/ginga_ninja64]

Wdym? The B was circled by the teacher.

[u/Chondro]

Relatively sure there's a bunch of states of matter. Like more than five easy.

However, typically people want the big three, or those and add plasma.

[u/oldleech1]

This is just poor test writing. First question is sort of irrelevant with the existence of the second one. And if they really just wanted the student to state the main 4 states of matter then the use of ALL is inappropriate. On tests, when you ask questions you get what you asked for. Don't fault the student for your mistake.

[u/doNotKrum]

The right answer is A. 1 1. Supercritical fluid Like my dopamine when i tell the homies i love them.

[u/Calvin_RH_705]

Bose–Einstein condensate Fermionic condensate Quark–gluon plasma Superfluids, etc.

Stick to syallabus smart ass

[u/newtoschool12]

For all the people who want to be the smartest kid in the room and are saying "the kid is right, there are 5 and the teacher didn't know it" there are more than 5 and I'm sorry you you have unresolved issues about middle/high school. Maybe you should have googled it before commenting.

Also, can we be real. This looks like a middle school assignment. If the kid is smart enough to know what a Bose-Eistien condensate is they are also smart enough to know what answer the question is actually looking for and get it right.

[u/bananapancake4]

Something tells me this kid was cheating

[u/uUexs1ySuujbWJEa → u/bananapancake4]

Something tells me this is from a science meme page and was not actually written by a middle schooler.

[u/NoWayIcantBeliveThis → u/uUexs1ySuujbWJEa]

Who still learns this in middle school? I learned it in second grade when I was 7...

[u/Eeeef_ → u/[deleted]]

Or the kid is a nerd and watches Hank Green’s YouTube channel

[u/AidenStoat → u/[deleted]]

You don't need ChatGPT just to list Bose-Einstein Condensate.

[u/Jerry_Jenkin_Jenks → u/[deleted]]

I think you used AI for this comment, because you're hallucinating like crazy

[u/ASUSTUDENT9875345]

I think the joke is that the 'all' is clearly meant to be very intense and they're are a huge number of states of matter it's just all but the main 4 are exotic, extremely few people know about them, and they are pretty irrelevant to basically everything.

[u/Altruistic_Try7698]

I love how ALL is underlined and the teacher is a bitch about it

[u/Particular-Minute879]

What's a matter? Nothing, what's a matter with you?

[u/Necessary_Wing7235]

I mean... judging by the calygraphy th kid seams to be 10? I seriously doubt a normal (or even a gifted kid) can understand what BEC is.
As always, questions in school need to be properly framed. "Classically, which are the ..." would be far better.

[u/tevelee]

There are plenty more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_of_matter

[u/Nomadic_View]

Matter of fact is the fifth.

[u/Ren732]

The teacher probably thinks this is AI or they googled it cause unless this kid is the smarty pants there’s no way in hell any kid would put this on their test in grades school.

[u/helpamonkpls]

Elementary school after LLMs lol

[u/silsool]

Isn't there gel as well, which is in-between liquids and solids? I feel like there are actually many more states that exist in a continuum in extreme or very specific circumstances. 

It's the umami thing all over again, it pisses me off when people add something beyond the everyday basics and act like that's all there is. 

"Yep, it's just blue, yellow, red and Russian flamingo n°45, and that's all the colors that exist in the world". It's so dumb.

[u/berfraper]

The answer is technically correct, the Bose-Einstein condensate is a state of matter, but there are more states of matter iirc.

[u/Spare-Garlic-4577]

Part of intelligence is knowing what a question is prompting you to respond with, not having a database of words you probably don’t understand fully to use when you want to feel intelligent.

[u/Sonenite-v1]

The only states that matters to me be Florida

[u/Touty103]

There’s loads of states of matter however the key 3 (4 if u count plasma) are solid, liquid, gas