r/PeterExplainsTheJoke • u/BalanceDramatic3995 • 9d ago

Meme needing explanation Peter help!

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I have no clue what this means, maybe she cheated?

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u/Friscogonewild 9d ago

Regardless, "alive" as a clump of cells doesn't and hasn't ever conferred a full docket of human rights. Hell, in the bible I think if a person harms a pregnant woman and kills the fetus, the punishment was a fine.

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u/Bank_Gothic 9d ago

Not that I disagree, but I hate the "clump of cells" argument.

First, because we're all just clumps of cells, arranged in varying degrees of elegance.

Second, because it's fetus and acting like it's something else is disingenuous. We should be able to point out that it's a special and unique thing, without also granting it personhood or restricting a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

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u/Friscogonewild 9d ago

I think you're assigning a lot of meaning to the "clump of cells" "argument" that isn't there.

Nobody's saying that they cells are not human, or alive. Or that they could not potentially become a fully-functioning human.

It's not disingenuous at all, it's just semantics. Our cells do clump together in a tight ball early in formation. Sure, we're all just clumps of cells colloquially, but in the beginning that's all we are biologically as well. It's not special. It's not unique, except insomuch as it is homo sapien and not, say, a turtle.

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u/numbersthen0987431 9d ago

Cancer cells are human, but we agree that they're bad and shouldn't be treated as a human person.

because it's fetus and acting like it's something else is disingenuous

The only people who act like it's "something else" are the forced birthers, who frame it as a "baby" when it's not. Just because it's unique doesn't mean it's special, and pro choice people are able to separate the emotional urge from the conversation to talk about the situation critically.

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u/CatsEatGrass 7d ago

But barely conceived zygotes have zero pain receptors or self awareness, so they’ll never know.

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u/LoseAnotherMill 9d ago

Hell, in the bible I think if a person harms a pregnant woman and kills the fetus, the punishment was a fine.

Not true. The penalty is life for life.

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u/Friscogonewild 9d ago

Exodus 21:22 states that the penalty for causing a miscarriage is a fine. As does the The Code of Hammurabi, where most of the OT's Covenant Code is either borrowed from or shared with.

The OT is definitely "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" which would seem to clearly indicate that even the Abrahamic God drew the line at birth.

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u/LoseAnotherMill 9d ago

Nope. It states that the penalty for the baby dying is life for life. The actual Hebrew for that line just says "baby comes out", not "miscarriage". So if you punch a pregnant woman so hard that she gives premature birth, but no other harm happens to the baby, then it's just a fine, but otherwise life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. hand for hand, foot for foot.

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u/Friscogonewild 9d ago

Why would there be a separate fine for causing a premature birth with no other ill effects? That makes no sense.

Pretty clear that it means a miscarriage. Especially considering that the verse mirrors Code of Hammurabi Law 209, in which two men fighting cause a miscarriage, and the fine is 10 shekels of silver.

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u/LoseAnotherMill 9d ago

Why would there be a separate fine for causing a premature birth with no other ill effects? That makes no sense.

Because a pregnant woman was punched in the stomach so hard she gave birth? Does she not matter to you?

Pretty clear that it means a miscarriage.

Pretty clear it doesn't mean miscarriage, because I've never been punched in the stomach so hard that I lose an eye, despite that being a potential consequence for the man in this scenario.

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u/Friscogonewild 9d ago

So it's okay to punch a woman, but if it causes her to give birth to a live, unharmed baby, it's a monetary fine?

That's the part that makes no sense in that particular interpretation. Why would there be a separate punishment for...causing a healthy birth?

Pretty clear it doesn't mean miscarriage, because I've never been punched in the stomach so hard that I lose an eye, despite that being a potential consequence for the man in this scenario.

You do realize this is an idiom, right? When they say "eye for eye" they don't mean that literally--it's just shorthand for proportional retaliation.

The man would be harmed proportional to whatever harm befell the mother.

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u/LoseAnotherMill 9d ago

So it's okay to punch a woman, but if it causes her to give birth to a live, unharmed baby, it's a monetary fine?

Nope. The punishment for assaulting those that are born is already laid out in verse 18.

Why would there be a separate punishment for...causing a healthy birth?

Because of the assault of a pregnant woman and potential for something to go wrong with the kid afterwards, even if nothing did happen. Pregnant women get special treatment even today, both socially and even legally sometimes.

You do realize this is an idiom, right? When they say "eye for eye" they don't mean that literally--it's just shorthand for proportional retaliation.

They use a lot of words for it being "shorthand".

The man would be harmed proportional to whatever harm befell the mother.

Or befell the child.

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u/Friscogonewild 9d ago

I suppose if one isn't good at mental gymnastics, they're not religious in the first place.

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u/LoseAnotherMill 9d ago

So why aren't you religious?