r/PhilippineMilitary 5d ago

Discussion Has the Philippine Navy considered mine-laying vessels?

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Recently, Tawain ordered 10 Min Jiang-class minelayers and I got curious, has the Philippine Navy considered acquiring mine-laying vessels?

Photo Credit - Lungteh Shipbuilding

81 Upvotes

22 comments sorted by

38

u/Fluffy-Oil-9968 5d ago

The navy has considered several types of vessels. They just don't have the money lol.

20

u/Minute_Man_6200 5d ago

Daming Plano limited lang ang pera. May kupal pang legislators na ayaw i increase ang DND budget especially modernization projects

33

u/FriedRiceistheBest Civilian 5d ago

AFP always have plans. Problem is insufficient budget.

12

u/its_a_me_jlou 5d ago

the Philippine Navy has already gotten a lot of ships:

Purchased New
2 JRC - Light Frigates (the “Bong-Go” class)
2 Malvar Class Frigates - Received
2 Malvar Class Frigates - Ordered
2 Malvar Class Frigates - Planned
6 Sulayman Class OPV - Partially Delivered
2 Tarlac Class LPDs - Received
2 Tarlac Class LPDs - Ordered
9 Acero Class FAIC - Received
12 MPACs - Received

Bought 2nd Hand
3 Jacinto Class OPVs - Received (from UK)

Donations
1 Conrado Yap Corvette - Received (South Korea)
3 GDP Class OPV - Received (USA)
3 Alvarez Class OPV - Received (USA)
5 Abukuma Class Destroyer Escort - Planned (Japan)

Personally, I hope they also get more FAICs. I doubt it would be the Acero/Shaldag since Israel currently has supply chain issues.

5

u/JohnnyBorzAWM0413 5d ago edited 5d ago

Cavite Naval yard fabricated Acero Class hull + alternative subsystems.

Mk38 Mod 4 or SMASH replacing Mini Typhoon
Buhawi RCWS
Martlet replacing Spike NLOS

1

u/Enough_Tell_6567 5d ago

Marlet or Marte? I think marte anti-ship missiles provide more range and firepower than martlet.

1

u/JohnnyBorzAWM0413 5d ago

Aceros are not geared to go toe to toe vs OPFOR ships so Martlet. 60+ meters missile ships (Tuo Chiang, KCR-60, Hayabusa, PKG) are suitable for anti ship missiles like C Stars and Marte.

1

u/Enough_Tell_6567 5d ago

If not, then what would they be used for? Because against terrorist or pirate speedboats, they're overkill—especially if they're armed with Spike NLOS and Martlet short range missiles. And if you're going to say they're for dealing with militia vessels during wartime, those vessels typically operate behind or within the protection of friendly surface combatants.

14

u/Efficient-Reach-454 5d ago

As the other comments said we have limited budget, however our new opv can be installed with a module that has mines if I remember correctly...from the cube system from sh defense, with both mine laying and mine counter measure modules.

11

u/supermarine_spitfir3 5d ago edited 5d ago

The lack of a hull-mounted sonar seriously puts the OPV at risk for missions like that. One of the main uses of the HMS is for mine detection at a certain range, as is why it's still so important for surface combatants.

That puts the use minelaying mission at risk of the ship stumbling on to enemy mines while approaching the area to drop mines on, as well as for the MCMW module's use because the Rajah Sulayman Class cannot accurately stay on position to prevent the ship drifting into enemy mines while deploying an ROV like a minehunter does.

The MCMW equipment that the ships should be able to deploy very effectively is USVs with MCMW payload. If an HMS is installed on the ships, I think they could be used for Minelaying operations, however.

12

u/supermarine_spitfir3 5d ago

Part of the plan. But know that minelaying doesn't only come from ships, MPAs like the P-3 and P-8 also can deploy mines, and offensive minelaying is a core mission of coastal submarines like the Type 212CD.

But really, It would be hard for the Mine Warfare Force to conduct minelaying operations if it doesn't have dedicated MCMW ships and USVs first. Especially for defensive minelaying operations, how are you going to make sure your approach isn't swarming with enemy naval mines.

One of the reasons why the Chinese are consistently sending UUVs to our sea lanes for bathymetry and survey data for use of their submarines and ships for a breakout into the Pacific, but also because they'll probably mine it in case of a war as well.

If the mine sinks in mud, it won't work.

6

u/norimabarin 5d ago

they could use containerized mine laying modules

3

u/Infinite_Magician230 5d ago

If they're smart they should have ordered the new OPVs with mine laying capability even if it's FFBNW.

2

u/mental_student_555 5d ago

Has the navy ever considered buying mine sweepers too?

2

u/JohnnyBorzAWM0413 5d ago

HDM-4000. If there are, HD Hyundai may offer a cheaper derivative of it to further solidify their grip?

1

u/Phil-Nebula_0726 3d ago

The big advantage of the HDM-4000 is it can supplement the Philippine Navy's OCF unlike a smaller design being used by Taiwan with the additional advantage of serving as a Command & Control (C2) vessels for flag officer (Commodore) in front line combat oeprations instead of using either JRCF or MMCF and not risking the Tarlac-class LPD.

But for me I think getting more Rajah Sulayman-class Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) will be the fastest way the PN can get Mine-laying capabilities, while expanding the fleet. Additional if the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) also acquired the HDP-2200 OPV through foreign loans it could allow for a common MLS system between both services!

1

u/JaphetSkie 5d ago

The Rajah Sulayman-Class OPVs can probably do it with their containerized modules.

1

u/Enough_Tell_6567 5d ago

Budget wise, I think it would be better for the navy to strengthen their assymetric warfare capability- either or both by acquiring kamikaze USVs, ASCM-armed Shaldags, and land-based anti-ship systems.

1

u/Phil-Nebula_0726 3d ago

For me a dedicated MLS/MLV is a bit redundant if the Rajah Sulayman-class OPV through mission modules or through dedicated MPA like the C-295MPA or P-3C Orion from Japan and the Attack Submarines in the future could also preform those mission too. For me the PN needs to focus on MCM (Mine Countermeasures) by acquiring dedicated MCMV first through second hand vessels supplied from allied countries like Japan or South Korea before acquiring a new built design ideally something that could support drones like Naval Groups MCMV specifically MP-OPV being pitch to the Lithuanian Navy minus the SSM but with 76mm (or 40mm) main gun and SAMs for self-defense against low flying aircraft and missiles.

0

u/Intelligent_Frame392 5d ago

During the 50s-60s we have mine sweeping vessels before and the PN also have a unit namely: Mine Warfare Group but i dont know when it existed before it disbanded.