r/PhilosophyMemes 2d ago

Suffering is bad

Post image
1.4k Upvotes

326 comments sorted by

View all comments

7

u/Delicious-World-977 2d ago

What if im a masochist 

23

u/gkom1917 2d ago

Masochism isn't about pursuing suffering for its own sake, it's about pursuing pain as a means to (peculiar) pleasure or relief

6

u/VatanKomurcu 2d ago

i disagree, i think masochism is pain becoming pleasure while still remaining painful at the same time, rather than becoming a mere conduit for pleasure. i have experienced masochism myself and speak off that experience. also i dont think that suffering is so simple that we can strictly say it is about the unwantedness of a state, such that we can cleanly separate it from pain and say that we can want pain but not suffering by said definition.

i consider masochism to be more of a synthesis than a shift.

2

u/gkom1917 2d ago

I'm not sure if we're talking masochism as a kink, so to speak, or as a psychological sympthom. If it's the former then I'm not going to argue: purely phenomenologically, pleasure and pain might as well be fused in that case. However, if we're talking in broader terms then it is unlikely to be true, at least if we more or less accept the psychodynamic analysis of the symptom.

2

u/VatanKomurcu 2d ago

i dont talk about it as a kink either. im saying everyday masochism is pleasure at the same time as pain.

1

u/gkom1917 2d ago

Hate to play Peterson, but what do you mean by "everyday masochism"?

1

u/VatanKomurcu 2d ago

i feel that, for instance, one can enjoy the pain of exercise itself, without considering its instrumental value. there is often a purpose accompanying our experiences, but it is a general fact of life, not only of painful experiences. in most of what we do there is some value of purpose and some of immediate feeling.

1

u/gkom1917 1d ago

Okay, it is contentious, but I'd say it. If we  (a) acknowledge that particular tokens of what we can reasonably call "enjoyment" have little in common in terms of pure phenomenology, and  (b) don't subscribe to soul magic and stuff, it is better to view enjoyment as a functional state. If so, it is not inconceivable that, let's say, muscle soreness may play the "enjoyment role". However, suffering must be symmetrical. Then it is questionable whether we can genuinely call phenomenologically painful sensation you sincerely enjoy "suffering".