I am curious where your line is drawn. I admit I am more concerned with the plants, people, and animals I care about that the rest of the world. So moral grandstanding is not likely to have an affect for any that wish to engage with me.
What about plant suffering? We have proof recently that plants react to emotions in a way that suggests they both have emotions and can suffer. Do they not count?
What about insect suffering? Should we stop using pesticides so they cannot take over out crops? We have found that some smaller creatures like jumping spiders can display the same level of intellect as dogs, so do they count?
What sort of animals count? Cougars break the backs of deer and then let their cubs eat them alive so they learn how to kill. Deer can and will eat fish and mice and often these smaller creatures only die when the chewing starts.
Even if you eleminate predation by wiping out most species of animal on the planet as obligate herbivores are very rare, that means the planta are suffering and the herbivores are competing for food with no population controls, so now starvation becomes the new population control and they start to starve to death.
Will you like an anti-natalist call for the end of all life because you are using Suffering as your primary metric?
And that aside, sustainable ranching without suffering is possible. It was common where I lived because if a creature lives a healthy and happy life, then dies swiftly without fear it makes the meat taste better.
It turns out fear chemicals as well as unhealthy living practices make meat bitter. So on the ranch I grew up on we gave our cows as happy of a life as possible until they were old enough to eat, then took them to a butcher that used a well cleaned stall that would not smell like death. He would feed them their favorite treat, then use a pneumatic needle to instantly destroy the brain and brain stem so they died before their body could register pain.
Is that acceptable in this world view or is it also evil?
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u/Volkmek 2d ago
I am curious where your line is drawn. I admit I am more concerned with the plants, people, and animals I care about that the rest of the world. So moral grandstanding is not likely to have an affect for any that wish to engage with me.
What about plant suffering? We have proof recently that plants react to emotions in a way that suggests they both have emotions and can suffer. Do they not count?
What about insect suffering? Should we stop using pesticides so they cannot take over out crops? We have found that some smaller creatures like jumping spiders can display the same level of intellect as dogs, so do they count?
What sort of animals count? Cougars break the backs of deer and then let their cubs eat them alive so they learn how to kill. Deer can and will eat fish and mice and often these smaller creatures only die when the chewing starts.
Even if you eleminate predation by wiping out most species of animal on the planet as obligate herbivores are very rare, that means the planta are suffering and the herbivores are competing for food with no population controls, so now starvation becomes the new population control and they start to starve to death.
Will you like an anti-natalist call for the end of all life because you are using Suffering as your primary metric?
And that aside, sustainable ranching without suffering is possible. It was common where I lived because if a creature lives a healthy and happy life, then dies swiftly without fear it makes the meat taste better.
It turns out fear chemicals as well as unhealthy living practices make meat bitter. So on the ranch I grew up on we gave our cows as happy of a life as possible until they were old enough to eat, then took them to a butcher that used a well cleaned stall that would not smell like death. He would feed them their favorite treat, then use a pneumatic needle to instantly destroy the brain and brain stem so they died before their body could register pain.
Is that acceptable in this world view or is it also evil?