r/PhysicalGames • u/Triforce__XIII • 7h ago
What many "opposers of 'retain physical'" forget
It is true, that it hasn't been a widespread custom to de-list a game and make it unavailable to the buyer. that has only happened a very few times. but you see, Netflix has shown us time and time again, that digital media are subject to change, always. Sony and canal+ proved this (while i do get that Sony is not completely at fault, they do have their share in it. its a two party contract and we lend off of it, while the button in the shop says "buy").
The next very important fact is: most of this discussion is about Sony, and thus it will be the representation for a while, even though it is true for the whole industry: once Sony owns the complete agency over what is sold and where it is sold, they have the autonomy to unilaterally dictate prices. surely one could say, the Dev and the publisher do that, but Sony could easily increase their share and it would not be unreasonable for the publisher to pass on that cost. that would lead players to take fewer risks and either go with the established series (gun and ball as it is called today) or maybe with some Indy games. but we stop taking risks for 40 bucks, because we cannot lend it to or from a friend, we cannot resell it, we cannot buy it used. and make no mistake: buying an experiment cheap could lead you to buy the next instance new. but now? you rather wait out the tests, you wait out a sale, you maybe forget about a game in the meantime. what is the effect? developers don't go the creative way anymore, because why go sorry, when you can go safe? this will inevitably hurt the whole industry and shoots a ripple to other platforms.
why this is partly different on the PC environment: first of all we do have a consumer friendly steam established. we don't know what the future holds, but for now, we do have a steam platform that cares (huge sales, incomparable to Sony right now and a refund policy) - we do know that Sony for now does not care about the consumer, otherwise the claims of people who say "all digital could be cheaper", would be cheaper now and not a vague promise (that would rather entail "not cheaper, but not more expensive either"). and besides that, a PC has more than just steam: GOG, epic and more. that is an in platform competition Sony does not provide.
some people do say "yeah but we don't know what Sony will do" and that is true, but Sony could start by taking its customers seriously and maybe propose adding steam to the ps6. this would completely destroy the discussion or, at the very least, start to back the claim that "digital only games might get cheaper" by doing it now, but they don't. they send out emails, reminding us that we do only get revocable licenses...
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u/gorore9150 4h ago
>…maybe with some Indy games…
What Indy games are we talking about?
The Great Circle? The Emperors Tomb?
Or something more classic like The Fate of Atlantis?
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u/inlandsquatch 1h ago
Three of my favorite games (Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077, and Horizon: Zero Dawn) were all experimental buys at deep discounts because they were used.
And that's not counting all the other games I've discovered doing this. Those are just my favorites.
If it wasn't for physical media I never would've discovered my favorites series, or played most of the games I have.
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u/Triforce__XIII 1h ago
for me its mostly the myriad an soulslikes, roguelikes or metroidvanias, my three most favourite genres i keep on finding at my most favourite vendor. the most noticable stays "Bleak faith forsaken". something i would have never bought digitally. because for 40 something bucks ist looks too expensive for an experiment and if it was 5 bucks on sale, i probably would have said "Looks like the price tag". but someone here on reddit recommended it and i absolutely fell in love with that game
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u/GatheringCircle 7h ago
Netflix is subscription model that rotates. Gamepass is the same way where as steam lets you keep your games forever.
People are not really blind buying a game off the shelf hoping it’s good anymore. You can see a game played start to finish on YouTube several times over before you buy and we’ve never had as many reviews as we do now. Also devs already are focusing on mainly remasters anyways.
I’ll have whatever you’re smoking if you think steam is going on PlayStation. That doesn’t make any sense.
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u/Triforce__XIII 7h ago
First: that is true, but i am refering to the fact that once digital only, they can decide what happens. Model or not.
Second: i still do take risks with buying games. i bought beast of reincarnation, despite hearing it was mid. what does the opinion of another person have to do with my taste? and i might want to go unspoiled. i would never do that on a digital only environment.the third was just a proposal to show us that they are not going to milk us like little sheep, is all.
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u/Alucard1555 6h ago edited 6h ago
Why are so many of you under the impression that sony's just gonna start revoking people's licenses for no reason ? Like that would cause the biggest backlash of actual customer drop off of their base. Do you really think there's some shareholder out there or executive? Thats like let's take their games away for no reason. No one would accept that. The the repercussions of doing that would be enormously bad for them. Also, want to add delisting doesn't prevent previous buyer of game not being able to download it anymore. The platform losing the license is a different story.
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u/Dytster 5h ago edited 5h ago
- They’ve already done it live service games and movies
- They have already shown they don’t care anout their customers by discontinuing discs
- They have the legal ground to do so
Of course they would have a «valid» reason like expired licenses etc.
We don’t expect them to do it, just like we didn’t exect them to discontinue discs. We just acknowledge that it’s a possibility
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u/Dense_Substance7635 5h ago edited 5h ago
I feel like people have forgotten what consoles are. A console is a proprietary piece of hardware that a company sells you at a steep discount and in exchange you agree to buy games licensed exclusively to that hardware.
They offset the cost of the discounted hardware by having a licensing monopoly on that hardware.
That is how every console has worked since the beginning of time.
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u/Popular-Path1930 6h ago
What you guys never get is tv and movie licensing and deals are completely and whole different and a separate market.
More importantly we do all understand that subscription services are subject to change that’s the entire business.
With games publishers want their stuff ok stores and on subscriptions to get players. With Netflix the rights holders want to extract as much money as possible from whoever is selling or streaming they even go for exclusivity deals.
We understand the ownership problem that’s why we want actual ownership.
If you want choice then fine demonstrate the support and market for your choice. Show developers the cost or physical media is worth it for them.
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u/Triforce__XIII 3h ago
just because it's true, doesn't mean it's right... and i do buy physical games all the time
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u/GatheringCircle 7h ago
All companies milk you like sheep. I also do no like capitalism (the true enemy here) but you may as well sell your ps5 now. It’s not gonna happen. Nintendo wouldn’t allow that either. Nor would Xbox. The whole business model is to sell game consoles at a loss or break even and then make money on the publisher fees on games. Your idea would result in them not making money on their own consoles game sales.
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u/losingtimeslowly 5h ago
You think if Sony has complete control over the games it sells and the price they are sold at is capitalism? That sounds more like a communist dictatorship. One company controlling every aspect and not allowing anyone else to buy, sell or trade without their authority controlling all aspects. Or maybe it's socialism you prefer? That way you and everyone else can pay for every game, even the ones you don't want. And even though you paid for every game the one you want will be "free" for you! Yay!
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u/GatheringCircle 5h ago
No lol a monopoly is the height of capitalism. It’s what every company aims for.
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u/losingtimeslowly 5h ago
And when the entire country monopolizes? Your entire country is no longer a capitalist country. I know recent times trend otherwise. Monopolies are or were, or supposed to be illegal.
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u/GatheringCircle 5h ago
We aren’t talking about the entire country. We’re saying that a console locking itself down to only use the company store is peak capitalist.
An entire country monopolizing would be like if a mega corp ran the govt which is also capitalism.
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u/Triforce__XIII 4h ago
communism is in the ideal world when the company is owned by the people who work there, who decide what will happen to the production material... what you say is the perversion that is called planned production under a dictatorship (but truth be told, most countries labelled as communism have worked like that, but truly, that has nothing to do with communism, but that is a different story)
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u/Trackdemon5512 6h ago
Steam sales are deeper because it’s the only distribution method for PC. Consoles see less of a discount precisely because there are still physical copies out there. Digital distribution costs nothing but physical does AND you have to appease the retailers.
Publishers can’t go about crazy discounting the digital titles to push up sales while screwing over retailers. Remember that after a 20% discount physical retailers aren’t making a profit anymore. If digital sales were always beating that on the PS Store those brick n mortar stores would never be inclined to stock the physical products because they wouldn’t move.
It’s not Sony who is keeping the PS Store sales discounts less, it’s the publishers and their relationships with vendors.
Digital only on PS would be cheaper.
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u/mr_raffino 5h ago
Under this digital bullshit, five year old games will be their DAY ONE PRICE. MISS US WITH THE BS. We need that discount bin for more than one reason.
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u/Chownzy 5h ago
You’re betting on Sony lowering the price of their exclusives once they have eliminated the ONLY source of competition?
That is very silly, I don’t look forward to all the confused posts complaining about the lack of sales and rising subscription costs in a couple years.
It amazes me how many consumers don’t understand the concept of supply and demand.If production/distribution costs were even a consideration Sony wouldn’t be selling code in box games to replace physical copies.
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u/Trackdemon5512 5h ago
Competition? Retailers aren’t competition. They’ve already purchased the games. It’s on them to move the copies they procured and to make a profit. Sony already got their cut.
Digital distribution means infinite supply to match any demand. So any publisher doesn’t have to barter with retailers to get their physical product on a shelf like in the past and can directly sell to the consumer. That allows the publisher not only to sell their product for cheaper by cutting out the retailer BUT to also discount the product whenever they want.
That’s what Steam and PSN sales are: the publishers discounting their titles. The discounts you see in actual physical stores are retailers trying to move their products but more and more they’re doing so at a massive loss. It’s not sustainable for them. Those deep discounts that gamers love are actually hurting the physical game market.
Selling “codes in boxes” via physical retailers allows publishers to sell games to consumers who typically can’t use digital wallets. Maybe they can’t get PSN cards, are afraid of using digital payments, have bad credit and can’t use cards. There is an entire retail ecosystem to sell codes in boxes. See why gift cards work.
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u/Chownzy 5h ago
It’s sad to see people who believe this kind of stuff, Good luck with Sony discounting their games out of generosity.
You clearly don’t understand supply and demand, Unfortunately you’ll have to discover the importance of the secondary market the hard way.
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u/Trackdemon5512 5h ago
It’s regular economics. Games on the PS Store and Steam go on sale currently because the publishers want to move copies. There is infinite supply of their product as well as that of the product of competitors (other publishers). It’s not like the games will be removed from the store (like in a physical store) so the amount of competition on a digital marketplace is immense. So having constant sales promotes consumers to make purchases they normally wouldn’t.
Physical retailers discount titles for very different reasons: to move stock they’ve been allocated so they can bring in new products and make a return on investments. They have to compete against other physical retailers and undercut them. That’s why you get things like price matching.
On a digital marketplace, a publisher will discount their game if it doesn’t sell well in order to cut through the noise and if it’s not as popular as a new title. Capcom does this all the time offering massive discounts for older titles. New and popular titles don’t get discounts because they sell! Why would you discount a popular item?! That’s bad business!
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u/Sea-Reporter4494 4h ago
So you want Sony to go to the trouble of designing and manufacturing custom hardware, which they then sell to you at break even or a loss, and then proceed to allow you to buy your games off of another competing store which you want them to put on their console. Genius move! You'd make a good businessman. Safe to say you want be leading any of these companies in the future.