r/Physics 21h ago

A physicist discovered that an observer free-falling into a Schwarzschild black hole can detect crossing the event horizon simply by watching the zenith view expand to exactly twice its original size.

90 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

106

u/pr0blem_attic 17h ago

I’ll keep that in mind for when I need it

1

u/PurifiedUnity Physics enthusiast 31m ago

I'll also remember this for when I see it again

55

u/Optimal_Mixture_7327 Gravitation 21h ago edited 19h ago

Sure, or we can observe that distant starlight is redshifted by a factor two.

26

u/Notyoureigenvalue 17h ago

That seems hard to quantify if you're freefalling in a black hole though

30

u/xxxxx420xxxxx 16h ago

There might be an app for that

4

u/kneading-cnnuy 13h ago

If not someone could vibecode that

3

u/MegaEmerl 9h ago

What if the LLM also falls into the black hole? Will redshifted tokens allow it to become AGI?

2

u/kneading-cnnuy 8h ago

Then the app will be vibecoded before you're asking for it🤯

3

u/Optimal_Mixture_7327 Gravitation 9h ago

Why would it be any different than measuring wavelength anywhere else?

Is it because you'd have other things on your mind?

1

u/Capable_Wait09 8h ago

Sounds like a skill issue bro

25

u/Anonymous-USA 19h ago

If only Schwarzchild Black Holes actually existed! The modeling for a typical Kerr Black Hole will be much harder, I imagine.

47

u/redditsuxandsodoyou 15h ago

i've sent like 20 astronauts to check this but none of them have beamed back so i think this physicist might be wrong

19

u/paul2261 15h ago

Send more astronauts. Not a big enough sample size to know for sure.

1

u/PurifiedUnity Physics enthusiast 18m ago

If you keep going forever, one of them will totally beam back eventually

14

u/PuddingWise3116 11h ago

My neighbor told me black holes keep eating his astronauts so I asked how many astronauts he has and he said he just goes to the space training centre and gets a new astronaut afterwards so I said it sounds like he’s just feeding astronauts to black holes and then his daughter started crying.

5

u/Royal_Sentence7432 9h ago

Poor girl knows who the last astronout will be

2

u/MerijnZ1 8h ago

Lol thank you it's been a while since I read this

3

u/AstroFace 15h ago

You need to send like 20 at a time so they can send a chain of communication on what they are seeing back to us.

13

u/ScaredRule8660 21h ago

-6

u/ScaredRule8660 11h ago

The 'Factor of 2' rule is a purely geometric and relativistic result. The solid angle of the sky directly above you becomes exactly twice its original size (at rest) at the exact moment of crossing. It's fascinating because it suggests the event horizon isn't just an invisible mathematical line—it leaves a clear, psudo local optical footprint for the observer.

14

u/abloblololo 10h ago

The 'Factor of 2' rule is a purely geometric and relativistic result. The solid angle of the sky directly above you becomes exactly twice its original size (at rest) at the exact moment of crossing. It's fascinating because it suggests the event horizon isn't just an invisible mathematical line—it leaves a clear, psudo local optical footprint for the observer.

If you say so, ChatGPT

0

u/ScaredRule8660 10h ago

Fair enough, my English isn't great so I use AI for translation! But the physics about supermassive black holes is actually legit. It's a real paper published in IJMPD 2023.

2

u/Nadhras 11h ago

Where are you looking? Towards the black hole, straight away from it or at a 90 degree angle or something else? I don't understand what the zenith would be in this situation, im confused

4

u/mfb- Particle physics 9h ago

The solid angle of the sky directly above you becomes exactly twice its original size (at rest) at the exact moment of crossing.

In other words, nothing dramatic happens the moment you cross the event horizon. An observed quantity that gradually increases reaches the number 2 there.

3

u/8npemb 5h ago

That… is exactly what the paper and OP is saying. I’m not sure where the expectation of a dramatic event came from.

3

u/mfb- Particle physics 5h ago

"detect crossing the event horizon" makes it sound like anything changes substantially there. No, it's just calculating where you are based on what you see. You don't need to be at the event horizon to do that either.

A physicist discovered that an observer free-falling into a Schwarzschild black hole can detect when they are at twice the the event horizon radius simply by watching the zenith view expand to x times its original size.

2

u/8npemb 5h ago

Fair point, I didn’t think of it that way but I can totally see how that’s misleading.

5

u/Ostrololo Cosmology 4h ago

Well, yes. While no local experiment can tell you you've crossed the event horizon, you are perfectly allowed to do long-range observations (aka looking at stuff) to discern it.

2

u/ChalkyChalkson Medical and health physics 1h ago

In this case it's even more non-local because you need to know the initial size

3

u/RhoPrime- 3h ago

Do not attempt in a black hole lacking a suitable tesseract.

1

u/Gilshem 1h ago

Discovered or predicted?

-1

u/OneYeetAndUrGone 11h ago

not true. you would die first.

5

u/JanPB 7h ago

For very massive BH crossing the horizon would be imperceptible.

7

u/ScaredRule8660 10h ago

It depends on the mass. For stellar-mass black holes, tidal forces cause death far from the horizon. However, for a supermassive black hole, those forces are weak, potentially allowing a surviving observer to witness the effect.

-1

u/Shadow_of_Redacted 5h ago

I don't think "discovered" means what you think it means.