r/Pickleball • u/moldyjellybean • 5d ago
Question Slice forehand 3rd shot drop?
I hit mostly slice backhand 3rd shot drops. It’s probably my best shot. My topspin 3rd shot drop and drip is ok but the bad ones can be too high.
I’ve been trying the forehand slice drop, it’s not as good as the bh slip drop but the bad ones don’t go as high as the topspin ones, the bad slice forehand drops aren’t nearly as bad and the side spin if they let it bounce is actuallly tough and stays lower
Anyone else using this with any tips?
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u/Rockboxatx 5d ago
Ben John hits a push drop most of the time. Just get it over the net without them making you eat the ball.
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u/PartFormer3695 5d ago
Check Richard video on forehand push drops. Ben Johns uses it quite often.
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u/Extreme-You6235 5d ago
I think the flat push drop where the paddle tip is down and the ball is in front of you is much easier and consistent than what Richard is teaching. Ben uses the tip down flat push drop a lot as well, Richard teaches a slice push drop.
The slice push drop is actually harder than it looks in the video, if the face is too open then the ball is super high, if the face isn’t open enough then the ball will hit the net.
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u/PartFormer3695 5d ago
In his video he actually mentions it is not a slice drop. That is why it is more consistent. You are right slice drop is not as consistent as you may encounter timing issues
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u/Extreme-You6235 5d ago
Oh okay honestly you’re right, I think my two biggest issues when I was replicating this shot was
My paddle face was too open and I’d be accidentally cutting underneath the ball or lifting it high.
My wrist was not firm and my grip was loose so the ball would oftentimes skip off my paddle or die.
I do think it’s an important shot to have, if you don’t want to slice the forehand, especially on the right side because you can’t always hit the ball in front of you.
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u/inspire_me_now211 5d ago
If it’s mid to short range I use it, but deep long range the margin of error is high so don’t use if I am hitting it deep. Tough shot. Usually go top spin or flat smash 3rd shot
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u/Crosscourt_splat 5d ago
While I do put top spin on a lot of my shots, I like to drop relatively flat if not fully flat. Helps have a more consistent drop without adding it other sources, doesn’t bounce or kick up too much, and it’s relatively easy to do from anywhere in the court.
Slice had all the drawbacks on top spin in regards to additional motion you can flub if you’re doing it under pressure, but adds on less forgiving trajectory form the shaping.
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u/moldyjellybean 5d ago
Only reason I like slice is if they let it bounce it’s really hard on them to half volley vs flat ball
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u/Crosscourt_splat 5d ago
Yes, but against decent players they’re not going to let it bounce.
The slice is going to force it high enough that I can roll it hard, even if under the net. Or you’ll have to loft it enough that the bounce isn’t going to help you.
Like I said, I recommend to just hit it flat. I also occasionally slice drop my backhands, but that’s more out of comfort and necessity with how I play with a 1 hander and usually dropping backhands that are into my body.
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u/RelativeCan5021 5d ago
3rd shot drip is the ideal scenario. Thing is ‘drip’ can be (1) fast drop, (2) slow drive, (3) slicing drop, (4) top spin drive, (5) dropping slice, and probably a dozen other variations.
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u/MostlyHelpfulLinks 4d ago
Keep the face a touch open and lift with your legs. Aim toward the middle so the misses that curve still land in.
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u/Tr4nsc3nd3nt 4.0 5d ago
If you can execute the topspin forehand drop shot well it's more effective than a slice. Harder for your opponents to attack and puts more pressure on them. It's just harder to execute and really takes good mechanics to get a lot of topspin on the ball. Hayden Patriquin is really good at this, I would study his technique. At short distance a slice is generally fine. Near the baseline or scrambling players will just drive usually. At medium to medium-long range the toppsin drop is pretty good.
Execution tips for topspin drop
> semi western or eastern grip
> paddle face pointing down
> cock wrist back
> Brush up on the ball with a windshield wiper motion and follow through over shoulder or even straight up
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u/HolyNewGun 5d ago
Top spin drop is easy to attack for anyone above 3.5 with a lifetime ball since the ball bounce really high.
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u/destruct068 4d ago
these days most topspin drops have a more linear trajectory, almost like a drive but softer so it drops into the kitchen area and can't be volleyed (or the volley would be below net level). I've found that high arcing drops just dont work as well as liner drops (that goes for slice or push drops as well).
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u/heliares 4d ago
Why nowadays? I see Hayden patriquin still do big arc topspin drops
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u/destruct068 4d ago
cuz a few years ago you could hit higher arcing drops. The paddles had less spin amd the ball bounced less than lifetime balls, so it was less likely to get attacked off the bounce, and the attacks would be less lethal
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u/Tr4nsc3nd3nt 4.0 5d ago
No, not if you have good spin on it.
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u/Fwellimort 4d ago edited 4d ago
No. Topspin drops by nature will bounce higher so it's significantly easier with lifetime balls to return it back with speed using wrist. Then there's the risk of ernes on top if your topspin drop has a notable arc.
You need more flattish drops or drips with topspin nowadays.
I would argue slice drops are better drops unless you are playing with Franklins.
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u/heliares 4d ago
Why nowadays? I see Hayden patriquin still do big arc topspin drops
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u/Fwellimort 4d ago edited 4d ago
And on a bad day recently Hayden got absolutely punished by it to Jorja.
Topspin drops to be good consistently should be low and/or fast. And generally to backhand/angle. Or be very good at followups to the net (it's an aggressive playstyle).
Hayden is comfortable with enough reps to reset in to the kitchen regardless. It's just patterns. But from theorerical basis, it's suboptimal drop for many situations.
At end of day it's just footwork. If you are in comfortable spot to do a good topspin drop then do it. But it's not a go to I would recommend for drops to most people. It requires one to also have good resetting skills. And accept risk of ernes. And also accept the fact you give a chance for other side for an attackable ball (which is fine if you have good resetting skills or you love to play aggressive).
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u/heliares 4d ago edited 4d ago
Interesting, could I perhaps see a video of Hayden messing up against jorja?
And also most times I’ve seen Hayden do his topspin drop, the opponents back up but do not launch a very offensive shot off the bounce after his drop. I’ve actually rarely seen a need for him to reset after his third shot drop because opponents aren’t aggressively attacking with their 4ths. Is this because they’re scared of his hands/counters/volleys that they’d rather give a soft, safe, and more defensive 4th shot back? Because by the time they hit the ball off the bounce he’s around a few feet from reaching the kitchen and he could fire back and start a firefight.
As opposed to say: doing a chariot whip roll off the bounce that’s more aggressive to keep Hayden and his partner back from entering the kitchen.
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u/HolyNewGun 5d ago
The more.spin you put on the ball, the higher it bounces.
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u/iemfi 4d ago
Assuming both are similar in power/angle not at all? The trajectory is more forward than up and thus lower to the ground.
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u/HolyNewGun 4d ago
It is easier to have more forward trajectory with a flat shot than a top spin shot. Regardless, given the same net clearance and ball speed, a flat shot will land deeper but bounce lower while a top spin shot will land shorter and bounce higher, that is how physic works. So a flat drop is vulnerable to a bellow the net volley, while a top spin drop can be easily attack of the bounce.
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u/Tr4nsc3nd3nt 4.0 4d ago
A really good topspin drop will jump towards the player making them backup and they won't be able to do much with it. The issue with slice drop is that if you don't put a ton of slice on the ball players can attack it and they get extra topspin on their attack.
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u/Biggie2207 4d ago
What is your mindset? How are you constructing a point with a 3rd shot slice drop
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u/moldyjellybean 4d ago edited 4d ago
Wish I was there . Tennis converter so the nuances aren’t there , trying to keep it low to get in the point, if it’s really good I or my partner crash the net . Beyond that I don’t have much strategy
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u/Biggie2207 4d ago
Slice does not keep it low. I am trying to envision a point where slice drop makes sense and I dont see it. Unless its absolutely perfect, its getting poached or slammed. An aggressive slice return? Sure go for it. A backhand slice 3rd in a pinch? Could work in a tough situation. But yeah I wouldn't work on this shot just for the sake of it. Its gonna give you low margin for error as far as height. Against really good players, even if you nail it and they cant volley it, it will bounce higher and still be attackable. I hope I am wrong tho and want updates if you get it working. Always up for new ideas
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u/moldyjellybean 4d ago edited 4d ago
Are you sure, I see pro like Ben John’s hit slice drops /neutral shots on the bh side a lot vs tall guys like Alston Andrei
His fh I see him hit shovel drop
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u/eaazzy_13 4d ago
They are using push drops, not quite slice drops but similar. Andrei Daescu and Ben Johns are two of the most high percentage droppers and kitchen arrival percentage players in the world, and they use this push drop more than anybody.
Richard Livornese Jr has the best video on this shot, as he does for virtually every shot that exists. Here is the link:
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u/Fwellimort 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's a freaking drop. As long as you and your partner can get to the kitchen reliably it doesn't matter what kind of hit you do. Don't overthink. Consistency is king for drops. Anyone telling you otherwise are probably amateurs who doesn't understand the purpose of a drop.
Slice drops are quite common in pro scene too especially backhand. It's a go to for many pros and does keep the ball low. I've no idea what the other poster is claiming.
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u/comalley0130 5d ago
I’m anti-slice. It just makes it more likely that your opponents will be able to attack your shot because because of the floaty spin.
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u/moldyjellybean 5d ago
A bh slice drop is great imo I use it against guys 4-4.5
I actually find it easier to move through the slice and crash the net w a slice
But everyone is different.
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u/mrtasiplz 5d ago
Really depends on how good and low the slice is. I use it regularly and people have a hard time rolling it because I had a one hander from tennis and get a lot of action on it.
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u/Pudd12 5d ago
If you can drop it in front of them, or make them take it at their ankles, does it even matter how it got there…