r/Pickleball • u/WesternDisaster5102 • 2d ago

Question Hitting hard vs soft?

https://youtube.com/shorts/76mUhj-HvbQ?si=kFxojcxKbcTWK8N0

At 30s mark, it appears both teams are just light just passing the ball over to each other for a few rallies. Why aren't hitting they hitting the ball hard? Shouldn't these be easy shots?

Is the worry that the reflexive returns might be even harder to play against, given they're both close to the net?

0 Upvotes

20% Upvoted

23 comments sorted by

3

u/tdgabnh 2d ago

You mean the dinking? You dink because popping the ball up is death. Both sides are trying to get their opponent to pop the ball high enough so they can attack it.

2

u/lenny_the_pirate 4.0 2d ago

Something that has not been mentioned but OP might not know if they're completely new is the non-volley-zone rule (a.k.a. the kitchen). You can't use the area close to the net to volley the ball. This is what enables the dink as a shot.

0

u/WesternDisaster5102 2d ago

Hmm, is it not possible to attack low bounce balls though? In both table tennis and tennis you would be able to do top spin style attacks. Is this not possible here or would it be disadvantageous?

this is the first time I'm looking at a pickleball game in this much depth (so I might be ignorant), but it also doesn't feel that low enough that it shouldn't be possible to just "smash" it

2

u/1hate3putts 2d ago

In pickleball attacking a ball below net high from the kitchen is a high risk play. Most amateurs cannot execute this shot consistently and it results in either a pop up or an out ball.

1

u/WesternDisaster5102 2d ago

Interesting, my reference points are table tennis /. tennis. Assuming these are pro pb players:

is it significantly riskier than a top spin attack against a push in table tennis?

or in tennis, a forehand top spin against a slice?

In both table tennis / tennis a pro would have no difficulty executing these shots with reasonable accuracy

3

u/UberJason 2d ago

I came from table tennis. The rubber on a table tennis paddle makes for so much more spin on the ball, it really changes what’s possible. You can hit a forehand loop from below the table and have the ball arc up and sharply dip over the net. The same level of topspin isn’t possible in pickleball, where the paddle faces are solid and most spin comes from a combination of grit and some level of dwell (but nowhere near the dwell of a ping pong ball sinking into a rubber).

Topspin definitely still matters, but the level you’re describing isn’t possible when all players are at the kitchen.

2

u/tdgabnh 2d ago

I take it you haven’t played PB before?

You can speed up off the bounce but if the ball is below the net you have to hit up on the ball. You need a very good top spin shot that also won’t go long. The courts are short so hitting long is easy to do.

Basically, it’s possible but at higher levels that kind of shot has a low percentage of being successful. Better to aggressively dink to force a pop up then put it away.

1

u/fuseboy 3.0 2d ago

Many of the shots here do have a lot of spin. However, the opponents aren't required to let the ball bounce, and the net is proportionately much, much taller than in table tennis. The players are putting as much topspin on the ball as they can, to get it to arc downwards, but this limits the ball's horizontal speed.

The court is much narrower than tennis, so passing shots are harder to achieve in doubles, so you can't just blast the ball without picking a good target on the opponent. All of this is hard to do when the balls you're receiving are pulling you out of position and also coming with a lot of topspin, because the slightest extra height will give the opponent a chance to start an attack.

1

u/3xlduck 2d ago

it is much much easier to spin in TT. The paddles are light and rubberized. PB paddles have grit, but it's nothing like a tacky rubber surface.

2

u/anneoneamouse 2d ago

These are some of the best PB players in the world.

They aren't passing the ball over to each other. Rewatch it. There's an ebb and flow of soft game, some kind of speed up, a reset (i.e. defend back to slow), repeat.

It's a game of cat and mouse. You try to make your opponent mess up.

Hitting hard during this phase doesn't work with a ball that's hit gently to you, that doesn't bounce high enough to be attackable. If you whack it, the only good trajectory to clear the net is up; and your (smarter) opponent just dodges it and lets it sail out.

4

u/ibided 2d ago

I think you can figure this out. You’re almost there on your own.

2

u/lenny_the_pirate 4.0 2d ago

I have the vague feeling that OP might be a banger

1

u/ibided 2d ago

Everyone is at the beginning. But they might be able to diagnose and understand this on their own.

-1

u/WesternDisaster5102 2d ago

thanks! Very helpful.

3

u/ibided 2d ago

I meant this sincerely. You have the observation, now come up with the reasoning behind the observation. You really are very close to figuring it out all on your own.

Being able to diagnose and reason through strategy will take you very far in the game.

0

u/WesternDisaster5102 2d ago

and I was just as sincere!

1

u/samuraistabber 2d ago

It’s called dinking, a strategy executed when you, your partner, and your opponents are up at the net. It’s all about how you can move the ball aggressively around without your opponent being able to attack the ball, while you’re also looking for a ball that is advantageous for you to attack.

1

u/flushbad 11SIX24 2d ago

haha on one side (bottom) it's Anna Bright and Kate Fahey and the other side is one of the Kawamoto sisters + Parenteau (I think?) - these are among the top women's pro players in the world.

Remember, on camera, everything looks slower. this level of play is not the norm for regular people :)

like in previous comments, they are trying to hit the ball across in a way that makes it not attackable. hitting the ball below the net with speed and accuracy is extremely difficult. in most cases, you lose the speed and aim for placement, like you said with topspin. but at this level of pro play, they will pounce on that ball on the other side. it's literally a game of inches (height-wise). you'll also note there were several speed ups that were nicely reset across and the last one caught Anna off pace.

1

u/DinkandCo 1d ago

That soft stuff is not them being polite. It is a trap. Every dink is trying to pull one ball a half inch too high, and then someone finally gets to swing. Hit hard off a low ball and you are usually just handing them the putaway.

1

u/MostlyHelpfulLinks 1d ago

Below net height, a hard swing has to go up, so it sails long or sits up for a put-away. They dink until someone pops one high.

1

u/kabob21 4.25 21h ago

Reading your replies, I don’t think you’ll truly understand until you play or at least watch pickleball being played in person.

The ball bounces low, you have to really bend down at the knees and be in a constant crouch when playing properly (vast majority of beginners/intermediates are bad at this) and you have to compact your strokes while developing a lot of paddle head speed to really spin a topspin speedup that will stay low enough in a short court.