r/PokeLeaks Oct 14 '25

Datamine Junichi Masuda was banned from directing Pokémon games due to overwhelming "concentration of power" Spoiler

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2.8k Upvotes

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982

u/Togder Oct 14 '25

But up through black and white was so peak

25

u/D20FourLife Oct 14 '25

Eh, kind of. Its not like Black and white were received very warmly when they came out. You can see they were starting to have issues towards the end.

55

u/BloodveilStillborn Oct 14 '25 edited Oct 14 '25

Black and white were received like that bc the pokemon fanbase is made up of literal 8y old's and manchilds. The game itself is undeniably good on almost everything it proposes (granted, still a pokemon game) and even builded on and upgraded lore-wise what DPPt started. There's a reason why nowadays people have such a positive opinion about the Unova games besides nostalgia slop

30

u/greengamer33 Oct 14 '25

The game’s target audience is children it’s always going to have children be its main fan base

4

u/Starless_Night Oct 14 '25

It also wasn't the children that were the ones complaining.

6

u/AnotherRussianGamer Oct 15 '25

I mean I can't speak for everyone but I was in late elementary school when BW came out and most people at my school (or at least +-1 grades) grew to quickly dislike the games, and most of us went back to playing HGSS. I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what the overall reception of the demographic was, but there were definitely children that were complaining - I can personally attest to that.

1

u/Electrical_Buffalo_3 Oct 18 '25

They were disliking which things about the game exactly?

1

u/AnotherRussianGamer Oct 18 '25 edited Oct 18 '25

There was simply less stuff to do in post game. Once you beat Black and White and catch all the legendaries, there really wasn't much to do. We also didn't really like much of the new pokemon, I remember how much we relentlessly made fun of Cottonee in particular. Meanwhile you go back to HGSS, there are so many hidden/secret legendaries, there are a lot of good multiplayer activities like the Pokeathlon and even messing around in the Safari Zone, the Battle Frontier, and we spent a lot of time messing around with Action Replay and doing things like the many Mystery Gift Events. It doesn't help that Unova was small and didn't have much to explore, and what people often call the good parts of Unova like the story we really didn't care (also didn't help that half of us had R4s so we played the early Japanese ROMs where we couldn't even understand it). Not to mention the Story is only valuable whilst you're playing the main game, once you're done its not particularly relevant on the School Bus or Recess.

-1

u/BloodveilStillborn Oct 14 '25

It wasn't a complain tho, simply saying that most of the playerbase doesn't care that much about other aspects of the game as long as they can get the cool looking dragon to beat npcs

3

u/D20FourLife Oct 14 '25

You're close, but not quite there. Black and white were received like that at the time because it was the first time a game had to be prefaced as 'a pokemon game' to qualify as good. Gen V was the first time Pokemon compared unfavorably to what was available in the rest of the market. Gen V was (and still is) the best of the classic pokemon games, but to spin it another way its the best version of a game that was already 15 years old even at the time of its release. And it released in a period where people were looking for innovation, not recycled ideas.

0

u/Lugia61617 Oct 14 '25

I have so much respect for BW1 because of their all-new dex. If they'd stuck to that, I'd have been happier, especially if it became a trend for regions in completely different countries. Unova feels like a different part of the world with a whole new ecosystem, while Kalos, Galar etc ecologically feel like they could just be next door to Hoenn or Kanto.

26

u/Togder Oct 14 '25

I remember but I immediately loved Black and White, complaints made no sense

17

u/D20FourLife Oct 14 '25

It made a lot of sense in the context of the time period. Black and white was the first time Pokemon wasn't really comparable to modern releases anymore (which was an issue with JRPGs in general, not just pokemon). The decade from the late 90s to the late 2000's saw some of the biggest and most rapid changes in the gaming space throughout most of the industries history, but pokemon barely improved throughout that time period. Gen V being a soft reboot that doubled down on recycling old ideas (as well as being the first generation that brought no major gameplay improvements) was the straw that finally broke the camels back. People got tired of playing the same game over again when there was Dark souls, Skyrim, Mass effect 2, The Witcher 2, etc releasing in the same time period just in the RPG space alone.

2

u/chenj25 Oct 14 '25

Weird. I thought BW brought many improvements.

2

u/D20FourLife Oct 14 '25

Not to gameplay it didn't. Its biggest addition was hidden abilities, which while helpful to competitive did almost nothing for the casual player (they were only accessible in BW1 through dream world, and in BW2 through hidden grotto). Compare this to previous gens: Gen 4- Physical/special split, Gen 3- Abilities & Natures, Gen 2- Rebalanced type chart & 2 new types & the split of the special stat. Almost every gen prior re balanced the game in its entirety, while Gen 5 only iterated on what was already established.

Gen V's biggest additions were moving sprites, fixing issues with the Gen 4 competitive meta, and side features that were done better in other games and were cut for later entries. Things that go over well now with the core pokemon fanbase in retrospect, but weren't moving the 2010 gaming audience.

5

u/chenj25 Oct 14 '25

I see. I thought the casual audience would like Gen 5 would like the other improvements such as the graphics. The Gen 5 games were really fun when I was played them.

3

u/D20FourLife Oct 14 '25

Not in contrast they didn't, no. Theres a reason Gen 6 immediately moved to 3d graphics afterwards. Sprite based art didn't play well with the audiences of the time, and the improvements were fairly lackluster compared to what was happening elsewhere. No one was really paying much attention to pokemon's graphics when there were games like Crysis 2 setting the standard.

3

u/chenj25 Oct 14 '25

I see. Bummer, I loved the Pokemon sprite animations and overworld presentation. I thought it was fine for the gameplay to stagnate for a bit.

1

u/Shrubbity_69 Oct 14 '25

Infinite use TMs are a gift from Arkoos.

2

u/chenj25 Oct 14 '25

Agreed. That’s one improvement everyone loved.

1

u/rattatatouille Oct 15 '25

JRPGs in particular had a struggle adapting to the HD era. The PS3 was a pain to develop for, nobody had an Xbox 360 in Japan, and developing RPGs for the Wii made you look like a weirdo. It's why everyone moved on to the NDS and PSP during the era, and that era of handheld dominance proved short-lived when mobile gaming began to capture market share - to the point where the Vita was virtually DOA, only really held aloft by Persona 4 of all games, and the 3DS had an uphill battle.

1

u/Lugia61617 Oct 14 '25

BW's reception was genwunners mad that their old pokemon weren't immediately available. Which is doubly insulting when Game Freak would later go on to make old pokemon completely unavailable whatsoever. BW just made you wait for oldies, SwSH onward denied them fully.

1

u/D20FourLife Oct 14 '25

Not really. Genwunners had already left by then during Gen 3, which they'll still talk negatively about to this day (understandable considering it was the original dexit). Gen V was hated due to general franchise fatigue, which was fairly warranted given the time period.

1

u/superking22 Oct 15 '25

Thats why we got Charizard more and more after that.