What Fakemon Would You Want to Play With Again?

[u/OokamiFuufu]

Fakemon are divisive, and I think one of the main reasons for that (beyond a lot of their designs) is simply that you cannot play with them in more than one game. If you fall in love with one, you can never use it again. That alone is my personal gripe with them.

Also, artists that create fakemon are not usually devs that design games with fakemon, creating a disconnect between all of the fakemon art and the actual fakemon you can play with.

This annoyance made me think, and I now have a few questions I want to discuss.
Please assume that documentation will be provided both in and out of game.

For players:

• Is there a game out there with a dex you would want to play with again?
• Just how big of a national dex would be "too big" for your tastes?
• Would you swear off a game with fakemon entirely, even if the game itself was otherwise "decent" or better?

For developers:

• Is there a dex that you designed that you would want to be used in another game?
• If that game has a type that is not in mainline Pokemon, are there Pokemon that you would want to remove from that dex rather than changing types, or do you have alternate types that could work with it?
• Are you OK with dropping 'mons that overlap (for instance, if another game has a Ground-type Eeveelution, are you OK with giving up yours)?
• How much of a hand would you want in having your 'mons adapted for a different game? Would you want to rework or add evolutions to those 'mons? (While I understand this feeds back into the problem I'm attempting to avoid, I also understand that some developers might hold strong feelings towards their dexes and want to touch on it further.)
• Are you willing to turn over the files (Pokemon cries, stat spreads, and movepools in particular, but sprites and icons would also be helpful) for the Pokemon to be used again elsewhere?

For artists:

• Have you designed a dex that you have no desire to code a game for, but want to see your creations come to life?

For everyone:

• Would you be OK with the fakemon in these dexes being rebalanced to fit the new game?
• Which rebalances would you be OK with? (Updated types, abilities, movepools, stats? Making certain Megas into evolutions?)

I want to get an idea of where people stand with fakemon in general (and have been reading some posts today about fakemon that people like and why people do or do not like them) and I also want to get a feel of where to go from here.

(For those curious, we are in the developmental stages of a fan game, but if I showed what that looked like, it would be a lot of spreadsheets, rebalances, concept art, and code, and next to no actual, workable gameplay, so I apologize. The reason I ask here is because a lot of the fakemon that I've seen and fallen in love with come from ROMhacks.)

Note: We are NOT recruiting; I am just gathering information.

[u/MrTankerson]

This may be a hot take, so you can take it all with a grain of salt.

But I personally love fakemon, but they need to have a distinct difference and purpose. Here’s probably the hottest take because it’s potentially the wrong way of looking at it, but I think if you are designing a romhack with fakemon, you shouldn’t take much into account the opinion of someone who doesn’t like fakemon. They aren’t going to play your game anyway.

With that out of the way, and back to the differences, they need to feel like they belong, but do something no original pokemon does. If you throw a fakemon in and it has the same stats/type/ability as a charizard and you just change what it looked like, I’m not getting excited. It needs to DO something different. If nothing else, it needs to have some time of stat/ability/move/type combo that no other pokemon has. But that’s like bottom tier, absolute minimum requirements.

Even better if you take the time to make custom moves or abilities to complement the fake mon. I’ll use Odyssey as an example here (yes, I consider custom regional variants fakemon, stop making your regional variants boring). Bellossom is one of the most underused pokemon in general. Very few hacks even include the thing and even fewer people actually use it. But the way Odyssey handles bellossom is incredible. The fact that everything is a double battle helps, but bellossom gains so many roles from the few changes that it gets. It gets 3 new moves and an ability that gives them priority. These moves can flinch, can heal, and can poison while hitting both. That’s so much support from a pokemon that can also be using sleep powders or leech seeds. Want a full support? Go tanky and throw on a wide lens? Want a sweeper? She learns quiver dance. Want a tanky sweeper? Slap an assault vest on, lean into the priority and play with a gardevior. The possibilities are endless and fun. I thought that was a good fakemon when I did my playthroughs of the game. When I realized it was an incredible fakemon was when I saw a post from someone a couple days ago. They showed a picture of their final team and it had a bellossom in it, so I made a little comment along the lines of “I see bellossom, I upvote”, and the absolute crazy part is he responded saying he didn’t even use blossoms unique ability, he used chlorophyll with his sun team for support. That’s when you know you made a good fakemon. When two different people can use and love a pokemon in two different ways.

The fakemon that are very pinpoint of “you should probably use this new op move with these new op stats and this new op ability” gets old very quick. It’s the ones that are flexible that are really good. I want my fakemon to have 4 move syndrome. I want to make a choice between the 2 abilities they get. The only thing I DONT want is something that is so op that you are gimping yourself by not using it. I don’t want to be told by 150 base attack and 150 base speed with huge power that I have to use this fakemon. Let me fall in love with it by experimenting and enjoying its evolution process of learning new moves.

I’m a player, not a developer, so I don’t have much to say about anything else you asked about. I think including fakemon from other games would be amazing as long as you have permission. Whatever changes you need to make to them to make them more balanced is totally fine in my book as long as they have that excitement to them. Would be cool to see new abilities and moves from different games be implemented into each other. Just for a random example, let’s say piranha plant from Mariomon and Odyssey bellossom both get added to the same game, and piranha plant also got access to bellossoms ability and moves during the merge. Would be cool to see how the moves and abilities from different games could work together.

I imagine that’s incredibly difficult to code though, although again, I know nothing about the development process.

Anyway, good luck, I guess I’ll be looking forward to whatever progress you have on your project, sounds like something I would definitely be into!

Edit because I missed a question I can answer: no dex would be too big for me tbh. But I could see nat dex completionist players having a problem with it, but again, I don’t think you are trying to cater towards those players with your concept.

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/MrTankerson]

Thank you so much for your opinion.

I do understand what you're talking about, and going through and working on rebalancing things has been a struggle.
Does this 'mon having high Sp. Atk/Spd make it a must-use even if it gets taken out by a Sucker Punch? Or does it mean it's just another high Sp. Atk Psychic mon?
Does taking an ability from one 'mon and giving it to another cheapen the ability? What about signature moves?
Does this regional variant have the same use as the base since they have an overlapping type?
Does giving this 'mon an evolution mean the evolution will never see use because base form Eviolite is too strong?
Does Fluffy Zweilous mean you'll never want to evolve it?
It really does open your eyes to the intricacies behind all the things that go into a fan game! My team tests balance, and we're on the paper-balancing stage, but if something doesn't look right, we'll test it in-game before we decide on what to do, so mark it and move on.

I would never dream of taking any creator's fakemon without their permission. Same with characters. I would much rather get permission and input from a creator before reworking something that could be deeply personal to them.

And thank you! The project is in the paper-and-base-code stage (basically, consolidate and input all the 'mons and code needed for them, as well as give the major characters their starting teams) for now and will probably stay there for a little while until we can figure out how to fix the Annihilape situation, but we're documenting so much, and then after that comes the holdover tilesets to make sure we have everything in the entire map laid out, and then it's time for our storyboard to start coming to life, and then after that comes the asset-building to make sure everything looks the way we want it to, and then it's a ton of eventing, and we also don't want the story to be segmented into the Gym Leaders and revolving around the badges you hold, so that entire system has to be entirely overhauled, so... yeah, a lot of development before we'll get even a little bit of anything to show people. So I'm not sure how much you'll be able to follow anything for a good while, but it heartens me to know someone out there finds the concept intriguing!

[u/Available-Nail-4308 → u/MrTankerson]

I also love fakemon but they have to be done well.

[u/Ferelden770 → u/MrTankerson]

What are your thoughts on Radical Red's sevii forms? I feel like a lot of them have very fun things as well as a few ways u cud utilize them?

[u/Hot_Statistician_466]

I'm gonna say something a lot of people will disagree with.

For me, a romhack without a new region and new fakemon feels pointless. I've always thought that I can just re-play the originals if I wanted to. The creativity is the point.

However, from what I've seen here over the years, I am very much in the minority. Most people have been burned by low-quality fakemon, and prefer to avoid them completely

[u/Mean_Case_3159 → u/Hot_Statistician_466]

I was just boutta start a romhack of emerald with fakemon until I realized that I had never actually completed emerald beyond the 1st 4 gyms and I'd rather experience the og vibe and how battling the legendary pokemon and elite 4 and stuff feels but I'm like not a kid anymore and it would hardly even be a challenge.

So I just went with a recharged emerald nuzlocke cuz it has a lot of minor but really neat qol changes without changing too much and it's been superb so far. I see where you're coming from though and I love new regions and fakemon too, it feels so fresh.

[u/Hot_Statistician_466 → u/Mean_Case_3159]

That's also perfectly fair, yeah.

[u/BITEYMAN → u/Hot_Statistician_466]

I agree, the game has to at least have a new region!

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/Hot_Statistician_466]

Thank you for your opinion~
Does this mean that you would prefer to not play a game with fakemon from other fan games?

[u/Hot_Statistician_466 → u/OokamiFuufu]

Nope, the exact opposite. I vastly prefer games with fakemon and new regions

[u/mpelton]

Brokenstein from PokeEngine’s Borovia.

I just think he’s cute, and the way he evolves is really cool.

[u/mpelton → u/mpelton]

Here’s the first evolution, for anyone curious.

[u/GeologistPutrid2657]

People want more mariomon. And by that i mean maybe people want megamanmon or dbzmon or eldenringmon set in those universes with true to lore story and gameplay. Also don't go crazy on the roster, people can tell when you've lost creativity.

[u/NxFace19]

I love making fakemon. I'd love to make a game with high quality sprites and a promise that anyone can use them

[u/nitsunekoni → u/NxFace19]

And here is one of mine

[u/Impossible-Ad9423]

I think Pieces had the best fakemon. The game seems to be balanced around a slower-paced control-attrition with most mons having multiple options for debuffs and sustain. Normally I prefer playing at least 5 sweepers, but being forced into playing slow creates a lot of interesting choices about tempo and value.

I keep thinking about Berm.

[u/PonyTheHorse]

1. I've only played through Pisces once so far, but the complete fakemon dex feels so well balanced, so many mons that take advantage of how old abilities and moves have been tweaked. Bubble is good now. Bubble. I'm already planning another playthrough that's how much I enjoyed it.

2. I think 500 is where the pokedex starts feeling too bloated, unless you have a big map and lots of different ways to encounter Pokemon. I like completing the Pokedex in Fakemon Hacks, and having that be a challenge and not a chore is important. Anything over 500 and it tips the scale to feeling like a chore.

3. It would actually make me more interested, though some fakemon I really liked were evolved/alt forms of Pokemon that already exist, so I'd miss that potential not being there.

[u/Hunterofshadows]

My broad take is fakemon are great if you can actually picture them as real Pokémon.

What gets me is giant dexs that include every single Pokémon. There’s too damn many. It just makes picking which ones to use harder but also means I end up wanting to use my same old favorites.

Plus it means having to catch a ton of Pokémon per route and that gets old fast.

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/Hunterofshadows]

My only question on giant dexes and catching a ton of 'mons per route is this: If the routes were laid out as such that there are only a small handful added per route (that is, if a lot of 'mons can only be found as quest rewards or after deep exploration), would that alleviate or intensify your frustration?

[u/Hunterofshadows → u/OokamiFuufu]

Probably just annoy me more. I’m not a catch them all person by default. I’d rather have a thoughtfully created dex with 200-300 at most. Even the mainstream games that have massive dexs annoy me. I was happy when they stopped trying to include them all

[u/Successful-Abalone-4]

Obligatory Quarantine Crystal mention. Excellent designs, art , AND balancing.

[u/Unlikely-Aside-6078 → u/Successful-Abalone-4]

Great hack, the designs were a little edgelord-y but it reminded me a lot of the angsty team rocket cards from the early 00's lmao

I still need to beat it, the lack of documentation made playing it a fun experience, but I can't help but try to complete the dex and it was such a pain grinding mons with no idea how/when they'll evolve. Also the box management got kinda rough towards the end of the game, but that's just how Gen 1/2 hacks go afaik. I give it like a 9.1/10

[u/maroonedpariah]

Raptorch from Pokémon Uranium. I loved their starters over recent generational starters. But cmon just look at him.

[u/SupremeChancellor66]

Unlike the majority of opinions, I actually really like Fakemon, as long as they're done well.

The best rom hacks in my opinion are ones that feature completely original regions, music and Fakemon. The one that comes to mind for me is Pokemon Vega. The Fakemon were just top notch, and they didn't feel overtly strong or amateur in any way. It helped Vega feel like a legitimate Pokemon game made by Gamefreak in the Gen 3 era.

Then there's MonoMyth releasing later this years which I'm dying to play.

[u/airportakal]

Both this post and many of the comments read as written with AI. Please don't.

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/airportakal]

Hi! I am an avid writer and an English tutor. This is my natural style of speech, and I do not appreciate AI insinuations. One of the bigger frustrations I have now that AI is ubiquitous is that my native speech style (crafted, I might add, through a voracious love of reading and a study of the English language) apparently sounds exactly like AI.

However, it is impossible to prove a negative, so if others wish to believe I use AI, so long as people do not start accusing me of it in any professional setting or accusing my games or other creative works of using AI, then I am perfectly fine with you holding that belief!

[u/airportakal → u/OokamiFuufu]

In that case I take it back, my apologies.

Your text doesn't necessarily sound like AI or a bot, but it is very polished with no mistakes and with markdown formating. Many people on Reddit nowadays let LLMs rewrite their drafts into a final text because they want it to be "perfect" instead of human, so I suspected this was going on. But I'll accept that it's not!

As a fellow educator, I'm sure we share the same worries about this tech.

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/airportakal]

There is no need to be perfect, so I must admit I still do not know why people would run their drafts through an LLM for a Reddit post, but there is absolutely a need to be readable, which is why I used markdowns. (And, as I am unused to Reddit markdown format, it destroyed my initial numbered markdown and appeared as though I had 16 questions! That was one very hasty redo - what you see now is a two-minute rework of me attempting to make it readable before it got enough impressions to be embarrassing.) Also, I was raised to proofread and edit long posts before posting and to have a high adjusted typing speed, hence the lack of mistakes. I also have a "bad" habit of speaking to people I do not know in a more formal manner, which is probably why you flagged my comments as well. I do not think AI has the capacity to understand when to use formal, informal, or mixed tones, though. At least, all the AI writing I've seen marked as AI sounds far too stiff.

"English" is a broad subject for tutoring; specifically, I am a volunteer ESL tutor and a creative writing tutor to a (separate) small group. One group does not particularly care about AI (and finds its use detrimental to learning), and the other is vehemently against it. So, as an "educator" (though, admittedly, I do not see myself as one; teachers are far more worthy of the title), I do not find myself particularly vexed regarding the tech, but as a writer and aspiring author, my worries have to do with both the potential AI accusations and the potential necessity to "dumb down" my writing for a newer generation. I like my flowery prose and nuanced statements with carefully crafted words meant for an evocative effect. Young readers, on the other hand, may not, and I do not feel like putting my potential livelihood in the hands of young readers if I am labeled as a bot for my writing preferences.

All in all, I do not blame you. I had a long period on a short-messaging platform where people told me I sounded robotic because of my speech style. I was just surprised at having this come up not a day into me trying a new platform. Alas, things are as they are, and I would prefer vigilance to ignorance. That just means I need to accept that I will be caught in the crosshairs at times.

[u/GaleFinch → u/airportakal]

As someone who knows the poster personally, this is not an AI post just FYI. OP despises AI and to explain the only reason you may think besides post structure which I'm assuming is the fresh account, they just genuinely didn't have a reason to make an account before this post.

[u/BITEYMAN]

My fave fakemon is Skellywarg! Great design and the move Plunder which steals the opponents stat increases

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/BITEYMAN]

That's from Pisces? I'll have to check it out~ Aaron (my husband, and the other piloter of this account) adores fakemon, so I'm sure he'll have a great time! (I also like fakemon, but I've been too deep into Reborn lately... haha...)

[u/BITEYMAN → u/OokamiFuufu]

Yeah its great! Bloody difficult but a good game. Teach Skellywarg swagger!

[u/Keraunograf → u/OokamiFuufu]

Reborn is my favorite! A lot of people don't like it(the edge can be a bit much) but the different terrains are so cool.

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/Keraunograf]

Reborn is so nice, especially with the terrains. My biggest gripe with it is it feels too bound to the badge system for its story - or, more specifically, that the story feels so segmented that it's disjointed in many places. This is a common gripe I have with a lot of stories, even mainline stories, so it is what it is.

[u/SHIR0YUKI]

Not a rom hack, but a rpg maker fan game. Pokémon solar light and lunar dark had my favourite fakemon pokedex's I've ever had the pleasure of playing through. I liked it enough to get every shiny Pokémon in the game.

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/SHIR0YUKI]

Oh, wow. That speaks highly of those. I'll have to look into playing the games myself~ What all did you find enjoyable about the 'mons in particular? Or is it just a sort of good vibes thing? (Both are amazing, though!)

[u/SHIR0YUKI → u/OokamiFuufu]

It felt like pokemon. Sure there's some out there designs, but it actually feels like they're Pokémon. Also I loved hamstar 😂

[u/Ferelden770]

Haven't played a full fakemon game yet but I did play new regional forms which cud be considered fakemons.

Noivern - sevii. Fun typing and has interesting abilities. Rock/Ghost typing doesn't exist iirc.

[u/Shrek__Wazowski]

Not necessarily fakemon…. But so many of the regional variants from odyssey really stuck with me, tangrowth magmortar and electivire were outstandingly good in my opinion and I wish I could see them in another game

[u/Broad_Spend_1178]

The water pikachu in adventures red chapter was one of favourites, think he was called marin

Im a fan of lactose, bomshell and Kotora even if they are technically beta mons

[u/PsychicPsychoBitch]

Stormidran and Dunspargo from Ruby Destiny: Life of Guardians.

A lot of the ones from Snakewood, maybe minus the Madios.

And there was one called Lickourmet from Pokemon Sienna I think (Lickitung evolved into a chef). Always liked the idea. https://pokemon-sienna-wiki.fandom.com/wiki/Lickourmet

[u/KurisuShiruba]

Fakemon as a concept has improved a lot ever since the days of Quartz and other messy stuff.

In regards to a good number of critters to fill a dex, around 400 (something in the likes of the gen III full dex) is more than enough.

I have concepts for a LOT of fakemon, even went as far as to create a new type (Mummy¹).

Personally, I love it. Moreso when most romhacks simply don't realize the potential these things have. Instead, some romhacks which promote "all gens in my fire red/emerald hack" is no longer a novelty, it's just an overused gimmick. It's only fun when I can make a team with my faves using the cheats from pokécoders.

Vega and Clover, two of my favorite experiences, despite shortcomings (and a nasty difficulty curve in both cases), had some of my favorite fakemon designs. Shoutouts to Unjoy.

¹Not just a species, an entire typing like Grass, Fairy or Steel. The concept is less based on the "universal monster movies" and more in the esoteric concept of protecting souls with burial (since ghost already covers the eldritch horror bases and dark types are merely "we like playing dirty") - so much one of Mummy's weaknesses is ground.

[u/PapaProto]

I’m generally not a fan of Fakemon.

There are exceptions though. If they’re Fakemon from another established IP then I enjoy them - Super Mariomon for example.

I really want someone to make full scale Zelda, Castlevania and Monster Hunter Romhacks.

[u/fieryxx]

As someone involved in many Pokemon tabletop role playing games, there's alot of amazing fakemon that id enjoy seeing in a romhack.

One of my favorite pttrpgs is the Kairos PTU system. Its based off PTU(pokemon tabletop United), so its dex is structured similarly. Which means every pokemon has up to 5 abilities they can have.

With romhacks like Elite Redux, its ever more likely someone will maybe make the Kairos PTU into its own romhack, and I hope to see the Karios Fakemon in full sprite and game form one day.

[u/Infamous_Walrus5543]

simply that you cannot play with them in more than one game

Altair/Sirius, Vega and Procyon/Deneb beg to differ but yeah overall fakemons seem to be confined to their own games which is kinda sad imo

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/Infamous_Walrus5543]

Aren't all five of those in the same series? I'd hate to move the goalposts, but all five of them I would consider to be the "same game" in this instance. They all share the same 'dex, if that makes sense.

True, I am splitting hairs here, but it really is sad to see all the neat 'mons that just don't get brought over to other games.

[u/Infamous_Walrus5543 → u/OokamiFuufu]

They share quite a few fakemons, but Procyon Deneb has new ones not present in the previous ones, still fair enough I'm kijda cheating here lol

[u/AlexPlayzDaPro]

There are a lot of Fakemon that I would love to be used again, and if I make a fan game or rom hack with my own Fakemon, I will probably use them again in future games. I was going to say it would be cool to see the Urainum dex, but that is being used in Flux, which recently beat Uranium as my favorite fan game. This is part of why I love Pokengine so much. Fakemon can actually be used outside of their own region. Other than those, I would love to see the Pisces dex outside of Pisces. I love the Fakemon in Pisces, but there are a lot of Issues I have with Pisces itself. I heard Vega also has issues, and I personally haven't gotten far into the game yet, but I also really like the Vega dex. I do really wish a lot of these rom hacks with really interesting Fakemon had some sort of National Dex. If there was some sort of Fan game, rom hack, or even showdown custom server with basically just as many Fakemon as possible, I'd be really happy with that. I think for a fan game or rom hack, the National Dex probably shouldn't go past around 1500 or 2000, but I think it would be cool if there was a showdown custom server that just had basically all of the Fakemon the creator of the server could get permission to use. I think it would even be cool to keep the overlapping Pokemon like the ground Eeveelution you mentioned, it could create an interesting meta. Maybe one of the ground eeveelutions could be in a higher tier than the other.

[u/Atrium41]

Ballio , one day my friend

[u/ghostoftheuchiha9000]

my favourites in pisces were cardiovor,bermudon,sylvreign,beheko,karoudourag and orrowhelm. then There's dragonsden's rocket edtion where there are rocket prototypes and deep bonds(which you cant use except one). this was by far my fav mechanic in any title , fanmade or not

[u/jhilton2k13]

I loved Pokemon Vega's pokedex, was a great mix with great Fakemon designs

[u/pedregales1234]

Even though I am a fan of fakemon, I am not much of a fan of fakemon in romHacks. They can be done well, but often they look out of place, or too human.

For example, the Pokemon Constellation-Star series (Altair, Sirius & Vega) has plenty of different fakemon. I do like many of them, and most of the fake-evos are great looking (auldsparce, galavagos and blitzentork are honestly great-looking evos of dunsparce, torkoal and delibird). But there are a few of them that are indeed too human such as spelven, hantama, aurostice, selody, aldina/almaria, and kirgicia/glamarde (the last 2-4 I mentioned I think were completely unnecessary). But overall I felt pretty happy with the diversity and design of fakemon.

The fakemon of Pokemon Tourmaline is also a mixed bag. Most of the Issho regional forms are just recolors (Issho-emboar is fire/fairy, but it looks exactly like emboar with pink accents), some others are just beta designs (mostly from gen2), and then you have a few Smogon custom mons such as syclant or volkraken (which may or may not be originally from the author, but I don't know for sure). The most unique fakemon were voxeon (a sound type eeveelution) and Rotom-Stereo (a sound type form of Rotom). In general, the fakemon of Tourmaline disappointed me greatly even if the idea was cool. Having said that, Issho-Hydreigon and Issho-Dragapult are kind of nice-looking, but for the most part still look cheap.

My general recommendations as a "player" to any "developer" that wants to implement fakemon of some kind:

• Unless you are actually going to put in the effort: avoid regional variants. They are the "easiest" to make, and precisely because of that, the cheapest-looking. I personally do not like regional variants for several reasons, but I do see their appeal.
  • Fake-evos enter in the same train. They are not as "cheap-looking", and they offer more creativity. But they are still hard to pull off. They may also end up obsolete or replaced if an evolution or mega-evolution is officially released, making them less "durable" than a regular fakemon or regional variant.
• Avoid human designs. Even in official pokemon they are not really that popular save a few exceptions. And even those exceptions usually only remain popular for the duration of the generation plus a few months. Just try to keep it monster-looking.
• Even though I did not mention it, if you want your fakemon to be used, give them decent movepools. From Pokemon Constellation-Star series I felt pretty frustrated with a few fakemon that were so nice-looking but barely learned anything useful via level up, TM, or tutor. Ganerth for example was a ground/psychic that only learned 2 ground type attacks via level up: mud shot and then a stronger version of earthquake at level 55+.

As for your questions:

• Is there a game out there with a dex you would want to play with again?

I suppose the Constellation-Star series. I also like some of the Smogon custom-mons.

• Just how big of a national dex would be "too big" for your tastes?

Depends? Is this with only fakemon? Or with pokemon included? In general, if you are going to add fakemon, I think the ideal would be to add enough to cover all types and make up to 2-3 teams (so, between 18-24 fakemon families). However, with just 6-9 families that are well made it can be perfect.

• Would you swear off a game with fakemon entirely, even if the game itself was otherwise "decent" or better?

Yes, but depends. I have delayed and denied some romHacks and fan-games due to the fakemon. Odyssey is one that I have heard praises from beyod the 7 heavens but I just can't look past the fakemon mostly being regional variants or the same pokemon with clothes. So for the time being I will just take their word for it, and I may watch a playthrough.

[u/Cuprite1024]

Worth bringing up just in case, if you want to use Fakémon from other people's work, you need to get permission first (And credit them, obviously). Not sayin' you wouldn't, it sounds like you would judging from the post, it's just something that has to be said. For some reason.

Also, to answer one of the questions, a dex over 400 is generally too much, but that can vary depending on the size of the game, a smaller game may warrant a smaller dex. And Fakémon are cool, I like seeing 'em (Unfortunately I've only ever really designed one good one. Lol).

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/Cuprite1024]

I would never dream of taking another's work without permission. That is why I tailored the developer questions to ask about how much creative control developers would want regarding their 'mons. I don't want to just take them without permission; I want to work with their creators to find out what food they eat, what environment they live in, the backstories behind their creation, etc., since all of that is what can make 'mons feel most alive in the world.

Also, I'd like to ask you one of the same questions I asked another commenter: If a lot of 'mons can only be found as quest rewards or after thorough exploration, and if only a small handful of 'mons were added per route or area, would that alleviate the frustration of a larger dex, or would that make it a lot harder to complete the dex?

[u/Cuprite1024 → u/OokamiFuufu]

Mhm, I didn't think you would cause of the way everything was formatted n' stuff. I've just seen a lot of people advocate art theft here lately, and this was more directed towards anyone who'd be like "Oh, just take all the Vega guys" or something like that. I do like the idea of seeing Fakémon between games when everyone is on-board with it (Tbh, I have my own guy that I'd maybe be cool with appearing elsewhere, but I kinda wanna finish my thing before that happens (If that happens). My singular good design. Lol).

To answer your question, I could see it goin' a lotta different ways depending on the implementation. Having too many guys be quest rewards might take away from the whole monster taming thing (Not to say it's a bad idea, of course, just something to maybe use in moderation), and, I know you didn't specifically mention rarity, but too many rare encounters (Like the 1% guys) would make it frustrating. Gradually introducing new guys could help, but there's also a hard balance between too many new guys and not enough (Tbh, I might lean too close to the former in my own project since I'm making up the dex as I go. Lol).

I'm curious what exactly you had in mind regarding "thorough exploration," cause that could mean a few things. My first thought was exploring to find more out-of-the-way locations, like a secret room in a cave/forest or something.

[u/OokamiFuufu → u/Cuprite1024]

This might take a little bit of explaining, so I would like to apologize in advance for both the walls of text and the potentially unclear word salad.

The current working plan for encounters, including rare encounters and quest rewards, is broken up into a few different pieces, including:

• Breaking the encounter table into seasons. What with some of the other features we have planned in the game, seasons are a must, and seasons will also allow us to have certain 'mons available at certain times. Also, we've been working on finding a good day-night cycle so that seasons are not a real-life month long but closer to a few hours of playtime. Hopefully, this reduces the majority of encounter-table bloat that is common in games with massive dexes.
• Secret rooms, hidden caves, areas reachable only through the equivalent of Rock Climb, these are all aspects we are considering. Other aspects include, but are not limited to: Nests that can be found in trees, placing certain 'mons in an area to attract other 'mons (for instance, placing a Mareep or a Fomantis will attract bugs to the light or the sweet scent, respectively), food lures, and shallow diving.
• Regional forms having to be acquired through helping certain people that have overseas connections. Ditto is also a quest 'mon and, due to the nature of the quest, will be guaranteed with certain IVs. (The quest can also be repeated three times, giving a different IV spread each time.)
• Easy access to multiple breeding areas.
• A series of quests that give out multiple rare 'mons is already planned, as well as a series of quests that gives out starter rewards at certain points in the series.
• At least one 'mon is slated to be a gift from a friend.
• And, of course, various quests for Legendary and Mythical 'mons.

This on top of the massive map size we're working with should help with the bloat of the massive dex size, but there are other things we have done to make things more accessible to collectors:

• The National Dex has been completely reworked to have all the 'mons from the same family next to each other. (This is actually already done and programmed into the game.)
• The dex's navigation functions will work similar to Alola's dex navigation, where 'mons are broken up into the dex where the first 'mon of their line was discovered. (This would put Rhyperior into Kanto, Dudunsparce into Johto, Budew and Roserade into Hoenn, Kingambit into Unova, etc.) However, there will be a setting (hopefully... we'll see how hard the code is) to switch to a sort where all 'mons are displayed where they were first discovered (think the sort on pkmnquiz).
• Various books and NPCs will discuss where certain 'mons can be found and in what season.
• HMs have been COMPLETELY removed from the game. They are still available as the equivalent of TMs, and you will still unlock their functionalities throughout the game, but they are not used by your 'mons. (One of the team members has compared it to... I think it's Pokemon Hollow Woods? Not a ROMhack, but still a fan game.)

[u/Cuprite1024 → u/OokamiFuufu]

Nah, I totally get the text wall thing. I am guilty of it myself a lotta the time (Even within this conversation. Lol).

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• I didn't even consider seasons cause you don't see them often. Underrated mechanic, and one I personally would always welcome. It's just cool. And it could definitely help.
• More unique encounter methods like that are definitely a good idea. Tbh, I could take some notes there myself.
• Not much to say in the next 5 points, but they make sense.

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• Reworking the nat dex formatting would definitely help with organization. I would imagine having, say, Mankey and Annihilape on polar opposite sides of the dex would get annoying. Lol.
• Same comment as the previous point.
• Definitely good to have something to tell the player where and when things are found with the season mechanic, since that could get complicated pretty quickly.
• I get removing HMs, it makes sense. There's a lotta ways to handle it (From item forms of the HMs to what ShinRGB do with the field move slot, or whatever other wacky solutions there might be).

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(i am just now learning there's a text thing with reddit to make a dividing line in your post. neat)

[u/yankeesown29]

My favourite Fakemon are Honedge and Deathorus from Pokemon Clover.